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Your ideas, hopes and links for green travel. - Page 2

post #41 of 306
1/20/11 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

170 mpg's (US) about 200 mpg's (Imperial) all diesel engine, but not cheap (a silly $30,000 ish) and only a limited production begining in 2013, at least initially. But I'd take one- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:VW_L1.JPG

Why can we not have a diesel Geo Metro? The gas version gave 45-50MPG, bet a diesel could break 60-70MPG. And the car design already exists and is a known brand.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #42 of 306
1/20/11 at 3:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Why can we not have a diesel Geo Metro? The gas version gave 45-50MPG, bet a diesel could break 60-70MPG. And the car design already exists and is a known brand.

Do US car makers make small diesel engines at all? I never saw a Polo in the US. It's smaller than the Rabbit (in the UK VW sell a car that's even smaller and cheaper than the Polo called a Fox). There are also small Seats, Skodas and a host of others over here with the same economy levels.

Half of the new cars sold in the UK are diesel and more than 70% are in France. That's not surprising given the cost of gas.

The Mini Cooper gets about 74 mpg's imperial, but BMW don't think there's a big enough market in the US to make it worth converting it for US emissions regulations. I think VW have some new diesel cars, but they're bigger and less economical.

I averaged about 50 mpg's in my old diesel. It worked out that I was barely, if at all, paying any more money for gas than I was in the US.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #43 of 306
1/20/11 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Do US car makers make small diesel engines at all? I never saw a Polo in the US. It's smaller than the Rabbit (in the UK VW sell a car that's even smaller and cheaper than the Polo called a Fox). There are also small Seats, Skodas and a host of others over here with the same economy levels.

In 1981 I bought a VW Rabbit Diesel, it got just under 40 mpg which at the time was great. The engine was built from the gas model engine block. The gas version got around 20-23 mpg. About 1982 a turbo charger kit came out which extended the mpg to about 50-to just under 60 mpg.

Around the late 80's new diesels were banned from California because a change in the Air Quality Act; diesels have more particulate emissions.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #44 of 306
1/20/11 at 3:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

In 1981 bought a VW Rabbit Diesel. Got just under 40 mpg which at the time was great. The engine was build from the gas model engine block. The gas version got around 20-23 mpg. Around 1982 a turbo charger kit came out which extended the mpg to about 50-just under 60 mpg.

Do you know what the most fuel efficient diesel is at the moment in the US?

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

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post #45 of 306
1/20/11 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Do you know what the most fuel efficient diesel is at the moment in the US?

http://www.dieselforum.org/uses/cars...vailable-in-us
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #46 of 306
1/20/11 at 4:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

http://www.dieselforum.org/uses/cars...vailable-in-us

Wow that's pretty shocking.

The highest there is 42 mpg's. I went to Audi USA and they only offer an automatic of there 140 hp diesel and it must have been modified and gets lower mileage than the Euro one. At the site they don't even state what the fuel economy is (or co2 emissions) not even under the more detailed engine listing and specifications. All that info is listed first on their UK site. The best diesel Audi A3 in the UK gets 74.3 mpg combined, 60.1 urban and 85.6 mpg extra urban.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #47 of 306
1/20/11 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Wow that's pretty shocking.

The highest there is 42 mpg's. I went to Audi USA and they only offer an automatic of there 140 hp diesel and it must have been modified and gets lower mileage than the Euro one. At the site they don't even state what the fuel economy is (or co2 emissions) not even under the more detailed engine listing and specifications. All that info is listed first on their UK site. The best diesel Audi A3 in the UK gets 74.3 mpg combined, 60.1 urban and 85.6 mpg extra urban.

Not trying to cause a fight, but this is the effect of Govt regulation over air quality. The Govt is regulating things that may be better for the air, but are far worse for many other things.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #48 of 306
1/20/11 at 5:22pm
1983 Honda Civic CRX.
If I can keep my foot out of the throttle it'll get 45 mpg at 55 mph. (still gets almost 40 mpg at 75 mph!)
This car was designed and built OVER TWENTY FIVE YEARS ago!!!

In the intervening 25 years, "they" haven't built anything to beat it!
A HUGE portion of the lack of progress are federal mandates regarding construction, emissions, crashworthiness, and other "safety" concerns. They all add complexity and weight to a car that prevents it from achieving what could be fantastic fuel usage numbers.

And NONE of that mandated safety equipment/weight is necessary. It's really not even the best way to make the car safer!



Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Not trying to cause a fight, but this is the effect of Govt regulation over air quality. The Govt is regulating things that may be better for the air, but are far worse for many other things.

Not just air quality... the safety regulations cause even more problems. (By adding massive amounts of unnecessary weight to the vehicle.)
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #49 of 306
1/20/11 at 11:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

1983 Honda Civic CRX.
If I can keep my foot out of the throttle it'll get 45 mpg at 55 mph. (still gets almost 40 mpg at 75 mph!)
This car was designed and built OVER TWENTY FIVE YEARS ago!!!

In the intervening 25 years, "they" haven't built anything to beat it!
A HUGE portion of the lack of progress are federal mandates regarding construction, emissions, crashworthiness, and other "safety" concerns. They all add complexity and weight to a car that prevents it from achieving what could be fantastic fuel usage numbers.

And NONE of that mandated safety equipment/weight is necessary. It's really not even the best way to make the car safer!

Not just air quality... the safety regulations cause even more problems. (By adding massive amounts of unnecessary weight to the vehicle.)

I do not disagree with the assertion that these regulations are holding advancement back. I was speaking to a single regulation instance that has made a tremendous impact on our nations fuel economy in a tremendously negative manner.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #50 of 306
1/21/11 at 6:50am
It makes one wonder...

If the idiot lawmakers had just not created ANY emissions regulations...

It would have been much easier for automakers to make the vehicles more fuel efficient. Simply doubling a car's fuel mileage would, by default, cut its emissions in half! But many of the emissions requirements prevent increased fuel efficiency, thereby preventing the emissions improvements they are supposed to create!

Todays 1.6 liter 4 cylinder gas engines could easily get 60-70 mpg (in a Civic/Corolla sized car) if you were allowed to strip off all the emissions gear and retune the engine controller for efficiency instead of emissions.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #51 of 306
1/21/11 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

It makes one wonder...

If the idiot lawmakers had just not created ANY emissions regulations...

It would have been much easier for automakers to make the vehicles more fuel efficient. Simply doubling a car's fuel mileage would, by default, cut its emissions in half! But many of the emissions requirements prevent increased fuel efficiency, thereby preventing the emissions improvements they are supposed to create!

Todays 1.6 liter 4 cylinder gas engines could easily get 60-70 mpg (in a Civic/Corolla sized car) if you were allowed to strip off all the emissions gear and retune the engine controller for efficiency instead of emissions.

I know it has probably already been done, but I think that would make an interesting investigative report. How much more economical could our vehicles be if.... And not using the tech of the future, but simply using the tech of today without the crap attached.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #52 of 306
1/21/11 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I know it has probably already been done, but I think that would make an interesting investigative report. How much more economical could our vehicles be if.... And not using the tech of the future, but simply using the tech of today without the crap attached.

Didn't I just tell you in my preceding post?

60+mpg is an easily attainable number with a modern computer-controlled ignition and timing system. But it would require you to ignore emissions requirements and drop the 500+ pounds of mandated "safety" gear (multiple airbags, intrusion protection, "crumple zone" construction, etc.)
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #53 of 306
1/21/11 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Didn't I just tell you in my preceding post?

60+mpg is an easily attainable number with a modern computer-controlled ignition and timing system. But it would require you to ignore emissions requirements and drop the 500+ pounds of mandated "safety" gear (multiple airbags, intrusion protection, "crumple zone" construction, etc.)

As usual, it's a matter of balancing competing priorities...

My thought on the matter is that the most green mode of transportation we have is all too often overlooked... our feet!
It seems like when I went to elementary school, almost all kids walked to school.
Now it seems like at my kids' elementary school, most kids are dropped off in huge SUV's...
People just need to drive less and walk more!

And I'll be the first to agree that I have oversimplified this and one can't walk everywhere.


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post #54 of 306
1/21/11 at 10:24am
Thread Starter 
Here's a Chevrolet that's petrol with a 0.8 litre engine and only 52 hp. I just passed one in the street and googled it. I'm not sure if they're sold in the US.

68.9 mpg -Extra Urban
43.5 mpg- Urban
56.5 mpg - Combined

- http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/chev...atiz-0.8-s.asp

A similar model that gets 47 mpg's combined (US), which is 5 mpg's more than the diesels (but a whole lot slower) will become available in about a year. I'm still not sure if you've had or had the 0.8 litre Matiz.

- http://green.autoblog.com/2009/03/02...ark-47-mpg-us/

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

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post #55 of 306
1/21/11 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I sold my car the other day to put more funds into my business. I've got two cars I can use that I don't own, including my downstairs neighbour, so I should be fine and I live in a very walker friendly city, Edinburgh.

Its pretty depressing seeing all the petrol cars around. The new electrics aren't exactly affordable for a lot of people but there are plenty who could afford them but given a lot of peoples taste for big engined beamers etc it's going to take a while for them to be common.

A small electric car that could carry one or two people that's cheap is my dream vehicle.


Do you have a lust for a cheap small electric vehicle?

I think these electric bicycles have potential, especially if they could be more car like. Big enough to store some stuff and have the stability of four wheels and more road presence so your not going to go flying so easily as a bike.

Here's a link to a Segway, I wouldn't want to be on a lot of roads, with one personally, except maybe country roads-

"Electric-powered Segways were banned from Britain's footpaths today in a court case that gave new impetus to campaigners who want to see the self-balancing 12.5mph two-wheelers allowed on the country's roads."
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/ja...an-rider-fined


I for one would love to have an electric vehicle that took the place of my gas powered vehicle. But we're still some ways off from that. The best electrics can travel 40-100 miles between charges. That won't do it for me. I'd guess in another 10 years, the technology might be there to get maybe 150-200 miles on a charge. If these became affordable, I'd say that a lot of people would adopt them.

Right now, we're not there. And I wouldn't blame people for driving larger, gas-powered vehicles. Similar electric vehicles simply don't exist yet. In this country, there are no electric SUVs or trucks of which I'm aware. There are no vehicles that can transport larger families and none that can take long road trips.

I actually think the best option in the next few years would be to develop electric-natural gas hybrids. Eventually, these could go 150+ miles on a charge, have a 50% quick 1 hr charge capability and a natural gas engine with 20-40lbs of on-board propane. Refueling that tank would be as easy as doing a tank exchange for one's gas grill. Total range would be in the hundreds of miles. They would be near zero emissions.

Eventually, though, I'd love to see viable long distance all-electrics.
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post #56 of 306
1/21/11 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Do you have a lust for a cheap small electric vehicle?

I don't think it would be cheap, but I'd really love it if Segway sold their Centaur.

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post #57 of 306
1/21/11 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I for one would love to have an electric vehicle that took the place of my gas powered vehicle. But we're still some ways off from that. The best electrics can travel 40-100 miles between charges. That won't do it for me. I'd guess in another 10 years, the technology might be there to get maybe 150-200 miles on a charge. If these became affordable, I'd say that a lot of people would adopt them.

Right now, we're not there. And I wouldn't blame people for driving larger, gas-powered vehicles. Similar electric vehicles simply don't exist yet. In this country, there are no electric SUVs or trucks of which I'm aware. There are no vehicles that can transport larger families and none that can take long road trips.

Focus here seems to be on electric battery powered cars. Curious if there have been studies whether our present electric grid system is sufficient to handle the increased number of battery powered cars. We seem to be at our limit in production of electricity. Wind and Solar power while it looks promising, large tracts of land must be set aside for these farms, I don't know if there have been environmental studies on the impacts these will have on the environment. Nuclear power still has issues of radioactive waste....thoughts?...open question to anyone, not just SDW.

Hydrogen powered cars seem to offer an alternative, however limiting factor is cheap source of H2.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #58 of 306
1/21/11 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

This looks like fun.

I missed this video the first time through. Honda is truly innovative!
I question how practical this thing is, and would personally want a back support on mine, but it is cool!
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post #59 of 306
1/21/11 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApplePieAlaMode View Post

I missed this video the first time through. Honda is truly innovative!
I question how practical this thing is, and would personally want a back support on mine, but it is cool!

Cool...but I prefer to walk.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #60 of 306
1/21/11 at 1:13pm
Thread Starter 
The crazy thing is about safety is that US roads were the safest in the world before the love affair with trucks and suv's for soccer mummies took off, now the US is about eighth or ninth, simply because those vehicles crush to smithereens other vehicles. How many people are you going to crush to death in one of these and yet for safety reasons we may not get it?-

"Accelerated Composites, a San Diego, California-area startup, has designed a two-seat, three-wheel parallel hybrid—the Aptera—to achieve up to 330 MPG and sell for less than $20,000. [...]
The production powertrain will consist of a 12 hp (9 kW) diesel engine with a 25 hp (19 kW) permanent magnet DC motor. (Accelerated Composites is designing the prototype with a gasoline engine for cost.) The electric motor is coupled through a Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT); when the engine is off the car can run on the electric motor alone. [...]

The Aptera weighs 850 lbs and is made almost entirely of lightweight composites, based on Accelerated Composites’ Panelized Automated Composite Construction (PAC2) process. It accelerates from 0–60 mph in 11 seconds, and has a top speed of 95 mph."
~ http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006...o_make_awe.php

Average US weight (2004) over 4,000 lbs-

"The average new car or light-duty truck sold in the 2003 model year tipped the scales at 4,021 pounds, breaking the two-ton barrier for the first time since the 1970's, according to a report released by the Environmental Protection Agency last week."
~http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/05/bu.../05weight.html

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

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post #61 of 306
1/21/11 at 1:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Focus here seems to be on electric battery powered cars. Curious if there have been studies whether our present electric grid system is sufficient to handle the increased number of battery powered cars. We seem to be at our limit in production of electricity. Wind and Solar power while it looks promising, large tracts of land must be set aside for these farms, I don't know if there have been environmental studies on the impacts these will have on the environment. Nuclear power still has issues of radioactive waste....thoughts?...open question to anyone, not just SDW.

Hydrogen powered cars seem to offer an alternative, however limiting factor is cheap source of H2.

According to this highly respected source there's already most of the power and the benefits are big- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_xBWBieLaY

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #62 of 306
1/21/11 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

According to this highly respected source there's already most of the power and the benefits are big- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_xBWBieLaY

Try to charge your car when there rolling brown-outs.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #63 of 306
1/21/11 at 11:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Didn't I just tell you in my preceding post?

60+mpg is an easily attainable number with a modern computer-controlled ignition and timing system. But it would require you to ignore emissions requirements and drop the 500+ pounds of mandated "safety" gear (multiple airbags, intrusion protection, "crumple zone" construction, etc.)

You are correct, I don't know why i did not see that before.

I don't mind some of the safety features, but for a short distance hopper or commuter car, I will take smaller. I had been interested in the Daimler Smart car, but the price to feature and economy ratio makes the purchaser seem to be the opposite of the vehicles name. I have ridden extensively in one on a business trip in Mexico and I was NOT impressed. it needs to be about half the price to be a value for what you get.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
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post #64 of 306
1/21/11 at 11:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Try to charge your car when there rolling brown-outs.

If they had their way, your car would help to power the city when there were rolling brownouts.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #65 of 306
1/22/11 at 4:59am
My city bought some of these trucks.

E3® Hybrid

It uses hydraulic hybrid technology. Basically when you hit the brakes it runs a hydraulic pump to store the energy. Then it runs in revers to get going again. Perfect for trash trucks.
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post #66 of 306
1/25/11 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Not a lot of HP with that.

I see that as being interesting, but too expensive for what it accomplishes. I am more interested in small diesel vehicles myself. Maybe with a hybrid electric system. Green? Perhaps. But the fuel economy over gasoline is huge.

Something like this...

Another Link
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #67 of 306
1/26/11 at 4:06am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Something like this...

Another Link

Looks very promising.

I wonder how much it will cost?

It is going to the US-

"VW CEO Martin Winterkorn identified the XL1's first markets in an interview at the same event. "We will bring out the XL1 in Europe first, initially Germany. The U.S. and China will follow at a later date," he said.

Winterkorn said there were plans are initially for a "small production run,” while VW development chief Ulrich Hackenberg said up to 100 XL1 cars could be built.

VW has not made a decision on where the XL1 will be built but Hackenburg said the company's German factories of Wolfsburg or Dresden were possibilities.

Piech declined to comment on a possible price for the XL1, saying that it "was too early." But the car will "certainly be for sale," he said, countering the suspicion that the car might only be used in field tests and might not reach the consumer.

Carbon fiber body parts

The two-seat XL1 prototype is the latest concept to come from VW's strategy to produce a so-called "one liter" car that uses less than 1 liter of fuel per 100 kilometers, which is about 235 miles per gallon. By using lightweight carbon fiber body parts to reduce weight to 1,753 pounds, and a plug-in diesel electric powertrain, the XL1 uses just 0.9 liters of fuel per 100 km (261 mpg).

The XL1 uses a lithium-ion battery pack, an electric motor and a two-cylinder, 800cc diesel engine for the powertrain. VW says the XL1 can also be driven for up to 22 miles on electricity from the battery pack, which can be charged from a household electrical outlet.

According to Piech, the XL1 has the second-highest amount of carbon fiber parts in a VW group car after the Bugatti supercar. Its lightweight construction technology will be used by other brands in the group including VW's Italian sports car subsidiary Lamborghini. Piech said the cost of the materials has dropped dramatically, helped by the aircraft manufacturer Boeing with its Dreamliner airplane.

The carbon body of VW's first one-liter car in 2002 cost 35,000 euros. But the cost for the XL1 is just 5,000 euros, [$6,800 at current exchange rates] Piech said."
~ http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011...NEWS/110129912

More info from VW here-

"The TDI engine is linked to an electric motor and a seven-speed DSG gearbox with an automatic clutch mounted between each unit.* The electric motor can either work independently of the TDI engine or in tandem when accelerating.* In pure electric mode the XL1 can travel up to 35 km before the diesel engine cuts in.* Accelerating from rest to 62 mph can be achieved in 11.9 seconds; the electronically limited top speed is 99 mph."
~ http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/volkswag...hicle-in-qatar

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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~ William Hazlitt

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post #68 of 306
1/26/11 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Looks very promising.

I wonder how much it will cost?

It is going to the US-

"VW CEO Martin Winterkorn identified the XL1's first markets in an interview at the same event. "We will bring out the XL1 in Europe first, initially Germany. The U.S. and China will follow at a later date," he said.

Winterkorn said there were plans are initially for a "small production run, while VW development chief Ulrich Hackenberg said up to 100 XL1 cars could be built.

VW has not made a decision on where the XL1 will be built but Hackenburg said the company's German factories of Wolfsburg or Dresden were possibilities.

Piech declined to comment on a possible price for the XL1, saying that it "was too early." But the car will "certainly be for sale," he said, countering the suspicion that the car might only be used in field tests and might not reach the consumer.

Carbon fiber body parts

The two-seat XL1 prototype is the latest concept to come from VW's strategy to produce a so-called "one liter" car that uses less than 1 liter of fuel per 100 kilometers, which is about 235 miles per gallon. By using lightweight carbon fiber body parts to reduce weight to 1,753 pounds, and a plug-in diesel electric powertrain, the XL1 uses just 0.9 liters of fuel per 100 km (261 mpg).

The XL1 uses a lithium-ion battery pack, an electric motor and a two-cylinder, 800cc diesel engine for the powertrain. VW says the XL1 can also be driven for up to 22 miles on electricity from the battery pack, which can be charged from a household electrical outlet.

According to Piech, the XL1 has the second-highest amount of carbon fiber parts in a VW group car after the Bugatti supercar. Its lightweight construction technology will be used by other brands in the group including VW's Italian sports car subsidiary Lamborghini. Piech said the cost of the materials has dropped dramatically, helped by the aircraft manufacturer Boeing with its Dreamliner airplane.

The carbon body of VW's first one-liter car in 2002 cost 35,000 euros. But the cost for the XL1 is just 5,000 euros, [$6,800 at current exchange rates] Piech said."
~ http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011...NEWS/110129912

More info from VW here-

"The TDI engine is linked to an electric motor and a seven-speed DSG gearbox with an automatic clutch mounted between each unit.* The electric motor can either work independently of the TDI engine or in tandem when accelerating.* In pure electric mode the XL1 can travel up to 35 km before the diesel engine cuts in.* Accelerating from rest to 62 mph can be achieved in 11.9 seconds; the electronically limited top speed is 99 mph."
~ http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/volkswag...hicle-in-qatar

And then they limit production to 100 cars. Are they worried that they won't sell? \
NoahJ
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NoahJ
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post #69 of 306
1/26/11 at 7:49am
Thread Starter 
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Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

And then they limit production to 100 cars. Are they worried that they won't sell? \


They'll sell incredibly well, especially with the price of gas come 2013. Maybe they're checking it for regular use.

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post #70 of 306
1/26/11 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

They'll sell incredibly well, especially with the price of gas come 2013.

Oh great! Hands do you know what the price of gas will be in 2013? That would be valuable information to know right now.

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post #71 of 306
1/26/11 at 7:58am
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Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Oh great! Hands do you know what the price of gas will be in 2013? That would be valuable information to know right now.

There's a high likelihood that gas in the UK this summer will be about £8 ($12-$14) a gallon. So let's not pretend that gas prices going up isn't to be expected.

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post #72 of 306
1/26/11 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

There's a high likelihood that gas in the UK this summer will be about £8 ($12-$14) a gallon. So let's not pretend that gas prices going up isn't to be expected.

You should know that you could make a LOT of money by investing based on this presumption. I suggest you do so.

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post #73 of 306
1/26/11 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

They'll sell incredibly well, especially with the price of gas come 2013. Maybe they're checking it for regular use.

If the price of gas were to remain unchanged from today they would sell incredibly well. I think they are unable to produce the vehicle in any appreciable numbers which means they will likely cost entirely too much. a vehicle like this should be planned for a run in the thousands, not hundreds. If they have any vision at all they would see this.
NoahJ
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post #74 of 306
1/26/11 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Focus here seems to be on electric battery powered cars. Curious if there have been studies whether our present electric grid system is sufficient to handle the increased number of battery powered cars. We seem to be at our limit in production of electricity. Wind and Solar power while it looks promising, large tracts of land must be set aside for these farms, I don't know if there have been environmental studies on the impacts these will have on the environment. Nuclear power still has issues of radioactive waste....thoughts?...open question to anyone, not just SDW.

Hydrogen powered cars seem to offer an alternative, however limiting factor is cheap source of H2.

We can do solar, wind, clean coal, etc. But the biggest piece of the pie has to be nuclear. Nuclear is really the best option. Their has never been a death associated with a nuclear power plant in this country. The waste can be stored deep within mountains in nearly indestructible containers. It's the only option that can produce enough power.

As for the grid, that's a good question. Could it handle millions of new cars at once? No..doubtful. But then again, here are two interesting articles:

Cost to charge.

Electric grid impact/cost.

From the latter:

Quote:
And dont worry that well run out of electrical power: A 2005 study by the U.S. Department of Energys Pacific Northwest National Laboratory estimated that three-quarters of the countrys current small vehicle fleet could be charged by our existing electrical grid without building new power plants. (And if all those cars were replaced by PHEVs, it would eliminate the need for 6.5 billion barrels of oil per day, or 52 percent of current U.S. oil imports.)

Pretty amazing stats there.
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post #75 of 306
1/26/11 at 8:43am
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Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

We can do solar, wind, clean coal, etc. But the biggest piece of the pie has to be nuclear. Nuclear is really the best option. Their has never been a death associated with a nuclear power plant in this country. The waste can be stored deep within mountains in nearly indestructible containers. It's the only option that can produce enough power.

As for the grid, that's a good question. Could it handle millions of new cars at once? No..doubtful. But then again, here are two interesting articles:

Cost to charge.

Electric grid impact/cost.

From the latter:



Pretty amazing stats there.

It's "million", not "billion" of barrels.

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post #76 of 306
1/26/11 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

We can do solar, wind, clean coal, etc. But the biggest piece of the pie has to be nuclear. Nuclear is really the best option. Their has never been a death associated with a nuclear power plant in this country. The waste can be stored deep within mountains in nearly indestructible containers. It's the only option that can produce enough power.

Still a scary option considering the possible consequences:
Three Mile Island accident

And then there's the problem what you do with the waste:
Nuclear Waste Storage

Solar and Wind will likely require large tracts of land and will have possible environmental impacts that IMO have been overlooked.
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post #77 of 306
1/26/11 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

It's "million", not "billion" of barrels.

Didn't see that. Care to address content?
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post #78 of 306
1/26/11 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

It's "million", not "billion" of barrels.

http://energytech.pnl.gov/publicatio...art2_Final.pdf

I believe this is the study. I did not find # of barrels in it. I assume that number comes from another source... If you have that source for your figures feel free to share it. I will do more research...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #79 of 306
1/26/11 at 4:20pm
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/en...il-consumption

# 1 \tUnited States: \t20,680,000 bbl/day \t2007

So 20 million + barrels a day used.

So it would seem that Millions from the article would indeed be more accurate. Not a small number though. But it could not be Billions as they wrote.
NoahJ
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post #80 of 306
1/26/11 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Still a scary option considering the possible consequences:
Three Mile Island accident

And then there's the problem what you do with the waste:
Nuclear Waste Storage

Solar and Wind will likely require large tracts of land and will have possible environmental impacts that IMO have been overlooked.

I live in Pennsylvania...at one point about 40 minutes from the plant. I've seen Three Mile Island countless times and am well familiar with what happened. There were no fatalities from that accident. It's highly unlikely it even caused illnesses. Radiation release was not significant. It's basically the only real accident to occur at a US plant, ever. That's one hell of a safety record.

As for storage: There are risks, but it can be done. It just has to be done carefully. It's really the only viable option when compared to others.
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