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Apple's Tim Cook dismisses Android iPad competitors as bizarre, vapor - Page 4

post #121 of 216
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Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

So if 88 of 100 Fortune 100 companies are supporting the iPhone, and 80 the iPad, who are the IT fascists holding up deployment at the other companies?

Microsoft, Dell, The Republican Party, Ricky Gervais, Sarah Palin, Faux News, ...
post #122 of 216
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Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

I think we can all agree that Android has a pretty substantial install base at this point, and is currently growing faster than any other platform. So the argument that I should be concerned about a thriving developer community is an exceptionally weak argument.

Really? Is that growth sustainable? It already looks like it was tapering off before the iPhone on Verizon. The next couple of quarters will be interesting indeed.

Is the community as strong as the iOS? Revo doesn't think so. And they are the only ones reporting less than stellar results with Android.

Significant? Sure. Worth pursuing? Absolutely. Enough to be a sole or primary focus? Not so far.

Quote:
Ive already said I find the Android user experience superior to the iOS experience. So for me the feature set of the iPad would need to be significant to persuade me to abandon what I deem a superior user experience.

The question is, are you in the minority or majority? Again, the first quarter of the iPhone on Verizon will be a very interesting predictor.

Quote:
Dude you're the one going omg omg noone respects apple omg omg

Sure, because Apple has demonstrated success. Not just in sales number but in actual revenue - for them as well as their partners. Android doesn't have that - or Google and their cronies would be crowing about it allot more.

Funny how that works...
post #123 of 216
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Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Whether or not it is true is irrelevant. At my company I have to take great efforts to not badmouth crummy companies we service.

As great as it feels to talk crap about stuff, it never works to your advantage, ever. That is policy at the companies I've worked at, like Siemens and SBC and Palm and others. At my current company if they find out I've badmouthed anyone, I'm fired.

What you say is true and is particularly ill-advised for a market leader.

However, you are not in the executive suite. When you get there, you may be able to bend or break those rules - ill-advised or not.
post #124 of 216
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Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Whether or not it is true is irrelevant. At my company I have to take great efforts to not badmouth crummy companies we service.

Where did he badmouth another company?
post #125 of 216
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Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

You haven't answered the question "What do you do?". Is what you do or who you work for a secret?

It's not MI-5 is it? Your name isn't Bond. James Bond!

Just kidding...
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Can't be MI-5, he says he's in Florida.
post #126 of 216
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Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

Hey look kudoz to Apple marketing for creating the 'cool' buzz. But do you really beleive most iOS users tried Android and iOS and then selected iOS? No way! Most iOS users dont even have a clue about what Android offers. They just know what an iPhone is and had to get one. Thats not taking anything away from Apple, but you cant say that makes ot a superior operating system. And folks like you and me select our devices in a completely different way than the vast majority of users.

You don't know any of that is true, at this point you're just spouting anti-Apple gibberish.
post #127 of 216
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Originally Posted by fuwafuwa View Post

From that millions of Android devices, may be only 10% are slightly better than iPhone 3GS. The rest are POS from unknown makers like Eken, ZTE, Forsa, FirstOne, MENQ, Dopod, etc that mere mortals think it's better than Nokia.

Well this is just plain false. Most Android devices on the market are made by 2bit manufacturers like Samsung, Motorola, and HTC. And all of those *I* would deem way better than the 3gs.
post #128 of 216
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Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

Hey look kudoz to Apple marketing for creating the 'cool' buzz.

Apple has had blockbuster quarters since the iPhone was released - so much so it's expanded the Mac market share (the "halo" effect).

I'm curious as to when you will concede that marketing and "cool buzz" aren't the sole reason for their success and that much of the "cool buzz" they have now isn't simply from marketing but because... wait for it... their products are actually desirable because of their positive aspects?

In other words, you don't have as many successful quarters and become the second most valued company in the Dow on marketing and buzz alone - at some point there has to be some substance to back the style up
post #129 of 216
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Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

don't kid yourself. except for virus crap, apple products are just as demanding in an enterprise environment. in some ways worse: itunes. that the ipad has to be tied to a machine with itunes is a huge pain. why can't it all be over the air? that would make them a breeze to distribute and support.

Apple products are so self-supporting even a Caveman can do it. Kids use Apple products (and Windows and Linux products at the same time). Kids can do it all.
post #130 of 216
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Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

The iPad has the capability to print to printers, with a feature known as AirPrint. The iPad certainly prints to printer compatible with that technology. No drivers are required.

The iPad is a new concept, for sure. I understand your company would want to test it out. The important thing is you have to be prepared to take a risk.

Also, you say that Apple doesn't seem to get the enterprise. If in order to "get the enterprise," Apple must support legacy technology and make its products compatible with antiquated devices, then don't even waste your time with an iPad.

I agree on those points.

HP laser printers print very nice output. Unfortunately, they are toner whores, and inkjets are notorious for just being pieces of crap. I print a lot (around 25k pages a year) and nothing beats a Kyocera for that.

Now if scanners come out with this feature, expect the whole definition of computing to change.
post #131 of 216
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Originally Posted by REC View Post

You don't know any of that is true, at this point you're just spouting anti-Apple gibberish.

Point me to one thing anti apple I have said other than calling Cooks conference arrogant? Hell I posted half these comments from my Mac book pro...
post #132 of 216
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Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Where did he badmouth another company?

It isn't really clear, but he addressed those running Android.

What he said is true, and was asked about it. That's when you are supposed to say "We do not comment on competitors products."

I know, it's hard to keep quiet, but it always works to your advantage.
post #133 of 216
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Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

Point me to one thing anti apple I have said other than calling Cooks conference arrogant? Hell I posted half these comments from my Mac book pro...

Here's what we know about you: You seem to be an insecure Android user who has sought out a site with an obvious Apple bias and who, using a provocative username, is trying desperately to stir the pot.
post #134 of 216
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Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

You haven't answered the question "What do you do?". Is what you do or who you work for a secret?

It's not MI-5 is it? Your name isn't Bond. James Bond!

Just kidding...
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Sorry, didn't see your post as it was the last one on page 3.

I do HVAC work. I used to do telephony/IT work before. While others in the company live with the browsing/OS restrictions put on them I've given myself a few liberties since I can
post #135 of 216
Well hey look, this is devolving into apple vs android... Which is mostly my fault, my real point was just to say that it's arrogant of apple to just write off android tablets. Some of which show real promise.
post #136 of 216
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Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

Point me to one thing anti apple I have said other than calling Cooks conference arrogant? Hell I posted half these comments from my Mac book pro...

Oh fine. You said:

"Most iOS users dont even have a clue about what Android offers. They just know what an iPhone is and had to get one."

Anti-Apple Gibberish. Baseless in fact, you have no idea if that is true. It's just what your mind concocted.

(congrats on your MBP. was it running OSX when you posted this?)
post #137 of 216
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Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

Here's what we know about you: You seem to be an insecure Android user who has sought out a site with an obvious Apple bias and who, using a provocative username, is trying desperately to stir the pot.

I love to discuss the tech, I love to argue the merits of the ios and android platforms. I think ultimately we're all better off with both android and ios doing well across all form factors.
post #138 of 216
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Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

I'm always surprised by the arrogance of Apple.. for Android enthusiasts it really helps fuel the belief that avoiding Apple products in favor of Android is the "right" thing to do. Obviously a silly concept... but the idea that Android tablets are irrelevant and/or vapor is equally silly. I use an Android Tablet because I find the experience more engaging and interesting than the iOS experience. I also prefer the 7 inch form factor of my Galaxy Tab... There is NO competitor to the iPad at the 10inch form factor right now... (which I believe is preferred by the average user)... so in that sense he's right about the existing competition. But in the next 3-4 months that will change. The iPad 2 will be needed to keep up with the Android offerings.

iPad 2 could conceivably destroy the Android tablets if the display resolution is as rumored... but according to cook... thats TRULY vaporware at this point.

Don't see the arrogance - but then I'm not ardently defending Android - I stopped doing that when they were bought, dolled up and sent out on the street corner to pull in ad revenue for Google. And all the Android enthusiasts scream accolades for this. Nice.

HP Slate - that has something with good bones underneath the surface - remains to be seen if HP will carry it off well. RIM Playbook is unproven and very experimental in key ways - a Frankenstein device. Honeycomb has not been at large vetted yet - and Gingerbread is the only thing driving reality for any current tabbies - guess folks missed the old Google memo about Android not good on tablets. Or are they killing off ChromeOS to throw everything behind Android and are now backing away from that statement?

There is NO solid iPad competitor going toe-to-toe with the platform. NO Android device is in the same class delivering the same user experience (or better) and there won't be for weeks or months yet. And only then will those devices have to compete in the marketplace - not the fevered dreams of the Android enthusiasts. But in the hands and daily activities of the average consumer.
post #139 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by REC View Post

Oh fine. You said:

"Most iOS users dont even have a clue about what Android offers. They just know what an iPhone is and had to get one."

Anti-Apple Gibberish. Baseless in fact, you have no idea if that is true. It's just what your mind concocted.

(congrats on your MBP. was it running OSX when you posted this?)

Oh most definetly, I try to stay out of my VM winblows as much as possible.
post #140 of 216
Crack prices in Cupertino must've fallen recently.

Anyway, Android's a great mobile os and Apple don't have the tab on tabletness. They need to relax over there. That's A

B... i'm a Winblows user and I own a mac. Mac users know nothing which is why Apple and its 3rd party developers are able to monetize every aspect of personal computing anymore where mac use is concerned. Paying for video codecs? Come on. If Apple users knew anything they wouldn't go for it.

C... I own an android phone and know full well Android is capable of much. OSX is unix-based as is Android (linux-based) so the idea of an Applehead calling Android unprepared to deal with tablets is kind of stupid. Which would pretty much be par for the course.
post #141 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

Hey look kudoz to Apple marketing for creating the 'cool' buzz. But do you really beleive most iOS users tried Android and iOS and then selected iOS? No way! Most iOS users dont even have a clue about what Android offers. They just know what an iPhone is and had to get one. Thats not taking anything away from Apple, but you cant say that makes ot a superior operating system. And folks like you and me select our devices in a completely different way than the vast majority of users.

You (and most of the rest of us) are technically niche user and not average consumers. And do you care to hazard a guess which part of the market is larger? Go ahead - take your time.
post #142 of 216
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Originally Posted by dtla1730 View Post

Apple didn't invent the tablet ... MS were making tablet versions of Windows XP back in the day. The iPad's just an oversized iPod riding a wave of popularity started in the media. Crack prices in Cupertino must've fallen recently.

*sigh* you guys never give up do you - yeah that M/soft segment of the tablet market was HUGE! not. And that's OK. It really is.

You just don't get it. But why you waste your time making that fact painfully obvious on an Apple fan site is a complete mystery
post #143 of 216
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Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore View Post

*sigh* you guys never give up do you - yeah that M/soft segment of the tablet market was HUGE! not. And that's OK. It really is.

You just don't get it. But why you waste your time making that fact painfully obvious on an Apple fan site is a complete mystery

See that? That's just being dumb, not you, but the person you quoted. Come on. It's just stupid to deny the reality that apple made a bunch of successful products.

When I supported the Treo 700w (worst POS ever) I remember someone was waiting for the day apple would make a phone and put an end to the misery that WM is. He got his wish.
post #144 of 216
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Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I am interesting in knowing what type of apps and background process the iPad can't handle?!

I use a stylus with my iPad for sketching. So the iPad can handle that type of input.

There aren't any android tablet that are rugged and the otterbox defender is pretty decent in a non-sandy/wet environment. There are some rugged wince devices but...

And there really aren't any background tasking that iOS can't handle.
post #145 of 216
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Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Is there any particular reason you're hammering away at the idea that there's a niche that requires a Windows tablet in a thread on the iPad?

He's also wrong anyway. If there is a need for a ruggedized iPad folks will make one. There are ruggedized minis, mb, xserves, etc that meet mil-spec requirements. Expensive as hell but you can get them or hire someone to do the job.
post #146 of 216
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Originally Posted by Offthewall View Post

Yes actually it's vapor if you can't buy it now. Three months from now (if that's really when these products become available) they will be competing with whatever Apple has out then (Apple's vaporware today - iPad 2).

Apple has not announced an iPad 2 so how can it be Apple vaporware?
post #147 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Whether or not it is true is irrelevant. At my company I have to take great efforts to not badmouth crummy companies we service.

As great as it feels to talk crap about stuff, it never works to your advantage, ever. That is policy at the companies I've worked at, like Siemens and SBC and Palm and others. At my current company if they find out I've badmouthed anyone, I'm fired.

For what you seem to imagine is some kind of canonical rule of business, there sure does seem to be a lot of trash talk going around....

Google trashes Apple, insinuates Jobs is a sinister dictator.

Balmer belittles Apple and Linux (just one example among many)

RIM CEO dismisses Apple entire business model as wrongheaded.

Adobe suggests Apple hates freedom, the internet and All That Is Good and Right.

Nokia mocks Scott Forstall by name.

I could go on-- it would probably be easier to make a list of the CE companies that haven't attacked Apple, usually pretty explicitly and unpleasantly.

So spare us the fainting spells. I'm glad whatever industries you've worked in are so genteel, but clearly Apple is pretty easy-going compared to the competition.
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post #148 of 216
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Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Apple has not announced an iPad 2 so how can it be Apple vaporware?

I think the iPad3, iPad4, and iPad5 is vaporware!!! Apple hasn't said anything about those models either!!!! So they don't exist!!!
post #149 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore View Post

*sigh* you guys never give up do you - yeah that M/soft segment of the tablet market was HUGE! not. And that's OK. It really is.

You just don't get it. But why you waste your time making that fact painfully obvious on an Apple fan site is a complete mystery

Please don't feed these drive-by one-post trolls!
post #150 of 216
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Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

True. But will apple allow a 3rd party to make a rugged ipad for us that will withstand abuse, heat, etc? History says never, unless Jobs retires.

Keep in mind though, while I was at a customer's house, an appliance repair man was using the same tablet and printer. White collar workers may be fine with an ipad, but there are plenty of us who wouldn't mind such a device either.

Why the whining and moaning because Apple doesn't fit your companies needs? You can't please them all and they seem to be doing just fine with plenty of other people despite the fact that your company can't use them. Talk about beating a dead horse!
post #151 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Offthewall View Post

Yes actually it's vapor if you can't buy it now. Three months from now (if that's really when these products become available) they will be competing with whatever Apple has out then (Apple's vaporware today - iPad 2).

Vaporware by definition is something that never actually solidfies into an actual product for sale. so yeah, Cook is trash talking when using that term for definitely upcoming tablets. Promiseware or futureware or hypeware woulda been more accurate. guess he just wanted to show Apple has its game on.
post #152 of 216
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Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

OMG, are you that stupid?

I arrive at a job. I turn the truck off. It's fucking florida and it gets 98 degrees every day in the summer. And if you went to school you would know that's the temperature in the shade.

So now my truck is in the sun as I can't be in the shade all the time. I spend sometimes 8 hours at a job. I'm not allowed to let a truck idle with the a/c on for 8 hours. Not only is that a waste of gas and money, it is bad for any vehicle to idle. If I don't put the tablet in standby it will turn off due to thermal overload around 3 hours due to the processing involved with our FSA.

You people complain about ad hominem with me? STFU.

I will buy that having a iPad left in your truck in Florida is a bad idea. Here's the problem though. You never say what your company uses that can actually be left out in a steaming hot truck. To my knowledge, I never seen a portable electronic device, much less any tablet that can handle that kind of heat. Remember, if it is 98 degrees outside, it is almost 120 degrees after an hour in that truck. Tell us, what magical device can you leave in your truck for eight hours in the Florida heat?
post #153 of 216
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Originally Posted by ispeakinsong View Post

I agree with you that other manufacturers are pushing 7" tablets because of price, but saying that there is no evidence of people wanting 7" tablets is taking that too far. Plenty of people have stated that they would like a smaller tablet, something that will fit in the oversized pocket of a coat/jacket.

yeah, there will certainly be some market for 5"-7" tabs. probably never more than 10% of all tablets. but there are always some consumers who prioritize small size and light weight. for that group, would not surprise me to see a 5.5" iPod touch someday.
post #154 of 216
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Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

I do hope this is bravado, and that internally Apple is taking their competition extremely seriously.

We really don't need to relive the 1980's and early 1990's.

It's at least bravado. Jobs is taking a medical leave again and tim cook is showing strength both for wall street and apples loyal customers. He also said they're confidant for a fight. It may be bravado but it's true they're in the cat bird seat. I don't see apple as having had a problem with taking their competition seriously.
post #155 of 216
He knows they're coming though. He's just saying they're vapor right now, which is correct.
post #156 of 216
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Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

It's corporate policy, of any company, to never talk bad about your competitors, ever. It never makes you look good. Customers see that and lose faith in your integrity to do a good job.

Apple took on microsoft directly on television for a long time to very good effect. It's the tough side of business. You have to run the show to decide when that's appropriate though. They don't let just anybody make those decisions.
post #157 of 216
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Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

I do hope this is bravado, and that internally Apple is taking their competition extremely seriously.

We really don't need to relive the 1980's and early 1990's.

It's an earnings call. Of course it's "bravado" or positioning.

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post #158 of 216
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Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

It's an earnings call. Of course it's "bravado" or positioning.

I want to be impressed again by Apple. I realize Cook and Jobs have to do a circle jerk with the investors but I want to be impressed and WOWED by the next Ipad and the next MBP like I am with the new MBA.
post #159 of 216
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Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Really? Vaporware? They just announced their tablets like a week and a half ago.

Three months from now if there is nothing, that's vaporware. Sheesh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Offthewall View Post

Yes actually it's vapor if you can't buy it now. Three months from now (if that's really when these products become available) they will be competing with whatever Apple has out then (Apple's vaporware today - iPad 2).

The iPad 2 is not vaporware, because Apple hasn't said a word about it. All we (think) we know about it is due to leaks and rumors.

The others qualify as vaporware without us having to wait 3 months, because we have waited three months for such announcements in the past. Last year there were loads of announcements, including the famed Courier, which possibly never existed outside of the prototype Ballmer held in his hands. What happened to them? As soon as Apple announced the iPad, they all got very quiet and went back to the drawing board.

"Vaporware" simply refers to an announcement with any or some or most of the below attributes:
• an attempt to garner attention in the space
• an attempt to freeze the market and slow the uptake of actual shipping devices
• wishful thinking
• panicked reaction to a successful product, followed by "now what do we do to pull this off"
• reassurance to shareholders that something is being done in the space, hoping that the announcement will be forgotten in 3 months
• raising false expectations, yet again, saying, "this time it's different"
• a best case scenario, with the understanding that 3 extra months to wait, and half the features is good enough
• if a product materializes and it actually meets expectations, it will be because the expectations have been lowered due to past record and no-one is expecting much.
• acting like, "this is easy, any of us computer guys can just walk in here and make a tablet"
•*thinking, "no-one got fired for putting Windows on a device"
• thinking, "Android is more popular than iOS, our tablet is gonna rock!"

When Apple announces the iPad 2 (which we all believe to be in production right now), you will be able to order it within a few weeks, it will have the price and the specs and the features they say it will have (if not more features and OS updates); and it will exceed the already high expectations. Apple has a proven track record of being pretty much spot on almost all the time, and it is hard for others to match it.
post #160 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by ispeakinsong View Post

I agree with you that other manufacturers are pushing 7" tablets because of price, but saying that there is no evidence of people wanting 7" tablets is taking that too far. Plenty of people have stated that they would like a smaller tablet, something that will fit in the oversized pocket of a coat/jacket.

Until they realize that app coders are gonna have a hard time making a practical app UI that fits and presents them with a reasonable way to access and navigate around their data. The coder already quoted in the article has made that clear.

So, even if manufacturers choose the best 7in screen available (unlike the odd, bizarre choice of one with 1.5 pixel ration in landscape), that's barely half the battle, they already have a handicap before they begin:
• The OS is not yet ready for tablets (per Google's own statement)
• The APIs are not as sophisticated as Apple's
• The app developers don't have the experience on that form-factor that iOS developers do (who can keep releasing their iPhone apps, double the pixels, or introduce extra iPad features)

These people who may say "7in would be great" probably haven't tried out some of the UI stuff that iOS developers have come up with, and are going to realize pretty quickly:
a) I can do more stuff more easily on my iPhone, which is even more convenient
b) OK, 7in would be nice -- could slip it into my purse or oversized pocket; but the navigation possibilities and UX are limited making the device far less useful than I thought; I might as well sling a small iPad case over my shoulder or slip it into a larger handbag, satchel or briefcase because of the added value the iPad brings.

Someone called the 7in talk from Apple FUD. I think Apple are simply recognizing the great and innovative things their developers have done with the screen area over the iPhone/iPod Touch, to make really practical apps. If Apple say they tested 7in, then I take them at face-value. The interesting thing is that everyone thought Apple foolhardy for trying to slip a 10in device between small laptops and smartphones, saying that Apple wouldn't find a new market there.

Now, everyone is scrambling to fill even smaller spaces between smartphones and the "market" or niche that they didn't know was there until Apple put something really useful in the space. These 7in tablet manufacturers have to bet on both the space within a yet smaller gap being as valuable (though Apple has already tested it), AND that they can do something useful and innovative with it. Good luck with that. But, you know what they say, "there will always be someone who will buy anything these guys make."

[I put "market" in quotes, because it has been argued elsewhere (by the author of this article, I think) that there is definitely a market for the iPad itself -- people can't get enough of them -- but it remains to be seen if there is a market for tablets in general, at any size, because there are no successful products yet to support that notion -- it wasn't true all the years that Bill Gates tried to push tablets.]
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