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Apple's Tim Cook dismisses Android iPad competitors as bizarre, vapor - Page 5

post #161 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

Vaporware by definition is something that never actually solidfies into an actual product for sale. so yeah, Cook is trash talking when using that term for definitely upcoming tablets. Promiseware or futureware or hypeware woulda been more accurate. guess he just wanted to show Apple has its game on.


Correct, however it's not Cook trash talking, it's Dilger. Cook never mentioned vapourware. Dilger made that up for the article.

On Android tablets Cook said "In terms of next generation. There’s nothing shipping yet. So I don’t know. Today they're vapor".
post #162 of 216
btw, has anyone else noticed the visual tricks Samsung is using in its Galaxy tab ads to make it look bigger than it really is? all the forced perspective shots where a hand and tab stand out in close up against a receding background view? and a guy in the ad holding it who is definitely on the small side? cheap tricks.
post #163 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Correct, however it's not Cook trash talking, it's Dilger. Cook never mentioned vapourware. Dilger made that up for the article.

On Android tablets Cook said "In terms of next generation. Theres nothing shipping yet. So I dont know. Today they're vapor".

Cook was taking a shot at android. He would prefer it if people purchased apple products.
post #164 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtla1730 View Post

Crack prices in Cupertino must've fallen recently.

Anyway, Android's a great mobile os and Apple don't have the tab on tabletness. They need to relax over there. That's A

B... i'm a Winblows user and I own a mac. Mac users know nothing which is why Apple and its 3rd party developers are able to monetize every aspect of personal computing anymore where mac use is concerned. Paying for video codecs? Come on. If Apple users knew anything they wouldn't go for it.

C... I own an android phone and know full well Android is capable of much. OSX is unix-based as is Android (linux-based) so the idea of an Applehead calling Android unprepared to deal with tablets is kind of stupid. Which would pretty much be par for the course.

Geeks will be Geeks. 10% of the potential market, maybe less. The rest needs an easy to use system, where there is no need to be an expert geek to use it. Whoever gets that will win the tablet wars...
post #165 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Well it also has to be a tested solution. My company spend 4 million dollars on that system.

Not to mention too I doubt the ipad can print to our printers, ever.

We also have our incoming call center use that same system to keep track of our customers info, make new work orders to order parts from various venders, etc.

In the future when tablet's (more like ARM) gets good enough, we'll see a shift. But the support and infrastructure isn't there yet, and Apple doesn't seem to get the enterprise.

...And Redmond sold you that package for how much?
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post #166 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtla1730 View Post

Crack prices in Cupertino must've fallen recently.
[...]
B... i'm a Winblows user and I own a mac. Mac users know nothing which is why Apple and its 3rd party developers are able to monetize every aspect of personal computing anymore where mac use is concerned. Paying for video codecs? Come on. If Apple users knew anything they wouldn't go for it.
[...]

I have to disagree. I am a Mac user, and many like me came from Windows. We've been there, done that... we made a choice. How many people out there are running Windows despite having the knowledge/choice/experience of using something else? Pretty much everyone uses it because "It is there" and they don't know better.
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post #167 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

Cook was taking a shot at android. He would prefer it if people purchased apple products.

Yes, i think he would prefer that. However, i do think there is some validity in looking at how vapor got turned into vaporware. It seems to me that Captain Cook's hands were tied in addressing all of the 80+ tablets. His description of 'vapor' is quite apt in describing something that he doesn't know enough about to see how it actually compares to an Ipad. I mean really if you don't know pricing, availability, battery life, and more. What are you supposed to say to how your product compares? I'd buy 100 xooms if they were 1$ and I could go to the store and get one right now, also if they were powered by magic fairy dust that negated a need for batteries. Now wouldn't that be magical?

He said everything he was really qualified to say. He mentioned why he thinks even if the slew of tablets are as good as they say they are, Apple isn't afraid to compete and they have unique offerings in terms of integration, ecosystem, etc that nobody can match.

Most importantly, he emphasized several times how excited Apple is about the products they have in their pipeline.

I'm a pretty leniant guy when it comes to companies releasing products and not delivering them for a couple months. But recently my patience has been tried and tested. I'm starting to think that a company doesn't deserve marketing hype, and publicity based off mockups and concepts. The annoyingness doesn't end here though, these same companies that are producing concepts and models, and advanced prototypes, want you to consider their products when making an argument in the present. You know? Like their nonexistant product has already changed the game, and if you don't take it into consideration than you are a dillusional fanboy or something.
post #168 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Bravo for you for not falling for the "7 inch tablet screen size is a feature" sales job. The whole 7 inch "form factor" is purely driven by price and an inability to compete with Apple in the 10" space. And if the iPad 2 rumors are true, the gap will widen even further!

I'm not really buying that 7" is a bad size though. The size worked pretty well the times I've used them.
post #169 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatunike View Post

Yes, i think he would prefer that. However, i do think there is some validity in looking at how vapor got turned into vaporware. It seems to me that Captain Cook's hands were tied in addressing all of the 80+ tablets. His description of 'vapor' is quite apt in describing something that he doesn't know enough about to see how it actually compares to an Ipad. I mean really if you don't know pricing, availability, battery life, and more. What are you supposed to say to how your product compares? I'd buy 100 xooms if they were 1$ and I could go to the store and get one right now, also if they were powered by magic fairy dust that negated a need for batteries. Now wouldn't that be magical?

He said everything he was really qualified to say. He mentioned why he thinks even if the slew of tablets are as good as they say they are, Apple isn't afraid to compete and they have unique offerings in terms of integration, ecosystem, etc that nobody can match.

Most importantly, he emphasized several times how excited Apple is about the products they have in their pipeline.

I'm a pretty leniant guy when it comes to companies releasing products and not delivering them for a couple months. But recently my patience has been tried and tested. I'm starting to think that a company doesn't deserve marketing hype, and publicity based off mockups and concepts. The annoyingness doesn't end here though, these same companies that are producing concepts and models, and advanced prototypes, want you to consider their products when making an argument in the present. You know? Like their nonexistant product has already changed the game, and if you don't take it into consideration than you are a dillusional fanboy or something.

I'm with you actually. I meant that firefly7475 was sugarcoating it. I thought Cook handled things quite well.
post #170 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

Promiseware or futureware or hypeware woulda been more accurate. guess he just wanted to show Apple has its game on.

That's an interesting point, but I've never heard of those words before you posted them. Did you make them up, or have you seen them used before?
post #171 of 216
This post sounds suspiciously like a drive-by troll, but giving you the benefit of the doubt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtla1730 View Post

B... i'm a Winblows user and I own a mac. Mac users know nothing which is why Apple and its 3rd party developers are able to monetize every aspect of personal computing anymore where mac use is concerned. Paying for video codecs? Come on. If Apple users knew anything they wouldn't go for it.

What codecs? I can't help but wonder if you're referring to a circumstance that's out of date. On the other hand, I recall being prevented from playing DVDs on Windows when I install using the Windows OEM install disc, I think it required a paid codec to play MPEG-2 as well. Now, MPEG2 isn't necessary unless you do video edit work, which is included with Final Cut Studio anyway.

Even assuming Apple sells a necessary codec separately from their computers, there are no-cost options available. Installing Perian tends to fill in the gaps and provide more obscure codecs too.

Quote:
C... I own an android phone and know full well Android is capable of much. OSX is unix-based as is Android (linux-based) so the idea of an Applehead calling Android unprepared to deal with tablets is kind of stupid. Which would pretty much be par for the course.

Having a UNIX-ish origin is just a starting point, a foundation if you will. If you can't build well above it, a solid foundation doesn't matter. The base of the OS is just one factor, and it has no bearing on the OS interface. If it were, then you'd need to explain why Android is the first Linux-based OS to have significant pull in the consumer market, outside of maybe TiVo. The BSD and Mach have been around for quite some time too, only Apple has managed to make a viable consumer device with the pieces they've used as their foundation. That said, the Samsung tablet looks pretty nice the times I've played with it.
post #172 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

So if 88 of 100 Fortune 100 companies are supporting the iPhone, and 80 the iPad, who are the IT fascists holding up deployment at the other companies?

That would be AAPL haters..... I mean competitors. In the S&P 500, Microsoft, Adobe, HP, etc...
post #173 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I'm not really buying that 7" is a bad size though. The size worked pretty well the times I've used them.

yes i WANT a 7" form factor. i have the ipad but i want one smaller so i can take it around everywhere and it not be so cumbersome. i just don't understand Apple with this 10" is it. (along with the 27" led display as the ONLY size they sell. seems crazy to me.)
post #174 of 216
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post #179 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Theres nothing shipping yet, and they lack performance specs and pricing..."

Does this mean that Apple now intends to give us specs on all their products ahead of time? Uh Apple? Specs on the iPad2 please....we are waiting.

Doubt it....they like to give us a big show and say "shipping today" or "shipping next week."

I personally don't think it is a big deal they are lacking performance specs and pricing.....the big deal is they are lacking an actual product and will be for the most part until around the iPad3, then, like the iPhone, it will be too late.
post #180 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggarthomas View Post

Interestingly enough, I do not think that Cook took on the Blackberry Playbook. I think that despite its 7" screen, the Playbook represents a serious challenge to Cupertino's domination. Well, not so much a challenge to their domination as a challenge to their unbelievable marketshare.

Cook did take on the Playbook: Vaporware. Wake me up when it comes out with or after the iPad 2...
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post #181 of 216
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post #182 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

...but there isn't much need to, since most of the summaries presented here bear little resemblance to what was actually said. Of all those, only Ballmer's was accurate.

Go back and look at what was actually said. Sure, there are some competitive statements there, but like RIM rebutting an attack from Apple and Adobe rebutting Jobs' "Thoughts on Flash" with what is actually a much kinder presentation than what Apple posted at their site, the earnest reader must admit the summaries above are a bit misleading.

This post seems indicative of what's become of much of the Mac community in recent years.

Apple makes great products. Enjoy them. But don't fall into the trap of believing that it's impossible for anyone else in the world outside of Apple to ever do anything right.

Such hubris leads to downfall; all empires that rise eventually fall. Why hasten it? It's sad to see those who consider themselves most loyal to the platform doing the most anti-marketing for it.

Your last paragraph is flawed in its logic. Hubris from Apple would be dangerous (I see no evidence of that) but from the fan base it can do little harm.
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post #183 of 216
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post #184 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Everyone is an evangelist. A million jackbooted fashionistas later and the platform gets a bad name.

You seem to be stretching a little too far in trying to make your point methinks.

You may as well argue the Beatles fans were a dangerous force.
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post #185 of 216
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post #186 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I am interesting in knowing what type of apps and background process the iPad can't handle?!

I use a stylus with my iPad for sketching. So the iPad can handle that type of input.

My guess he has never looked into Apple's enterprise program..
post #187 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by OskiO View Post

Does this mean that Apple now intends to give us specs on all their products ahead of time? Uh Apple? Specs on the iPad2 please....we are waiting.

Doubt it....they like to give us a big show and say "shipping today" or "shipping next week."

I personally don't think it is a big deal they are lacking performance specs and pricing.....the big deal is they are lacking an actual product and will be for the most part until around the iPad3, then, like the iPhone, it will be too late.

Actually it means precisely the opposite.

In any case, Cooks comment was merely highlighting the fact there have been a lot more tablets announced in the past 12+ months than actually released.
post #188 of 216
I can see saying that Android apps suck and that Android has no tablet specific apps, but you can't criticize Android tablets like the Galaxy Tab for using the same operating system as Android phones. The iPhone and iPad use the same operating system and that has nothing to do with the fact that the iPad has thousands of tablet specific apps.
post #189 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Daniel, this is a news site. Regurgitating old headlines every time Android is mentioned is again, kicking a dead horse.

So is making the same complaint ..... over and over and over. People who live in glass houses ... shouldn't throw stones. ....
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post #190 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Would it surprise you if I told you I want an ipad 2?

Hell no .... people lie all the time.
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post #191 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That's an interesting point, but I've never heard of those words before you posted them. Did you make them up, or have you seen them used before?

made 'em up.
post #192 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

You'll shut down if you sit in a truck at 110 for extended periods of time.

I think he may have already done so.
post #193 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

I know, it's hard to keep quiet, but it always works to your advantage.

I disagree. There is a ton of misinformation and bias, particularly in the tech press. I have absolutely no problem with his statements RE: Android.

If they don't state their position, who is gong to?

There's a reason why he's the COO of the second most valuable company in the Dow and you aren't
post #194 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

Some of which show real promise.

Perhaps, but the fact is there are darn few shipping, and the ones that are have numerous shortcomings when compared to the iPad and there isn't any indication that either Google or the manufacturers are intent on addressing some of the core shortcomings. Heck, they are in outright denial about one of the biggest - fragmentation!

It makes no difference to me. The market will choose who they like the best. If the Android tablets do correct enough of their deficiencies and start to take of then great! But I think there are lots of delusional people who think Android will "win" just because it's "open" or "not Apple" and that's just crazy.
post #195 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwlaw99 View Post

I can see saying that Android apps suck and that Android has no tablet specific apps, but you can't criticize Android tablets like the Galaxy Tab for using the same operating system as Android phones. The iPhone and iPad use the same operating system and that has nothing to do with the fact that the iPad has thousands of tablet specific apps.

Um, no.

When the iPad came out it had its own OS- 3.2. The point of 4.2 was to merge 3.2 and iOS 4.0. The merge was backwards with the iPhone. The iPhone, therefore, runs a tablet OS ( with modifications), not the other way around.

Besides all iOS has an API which is not that different from the Desktop OS. Android, on the other hand, has a much smaller subset of the API on iOS and will have to add lots of API to reach parity, which wont happen for years.
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post #196 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Perhaps, but the fact is there are darn few shipping, and the ones that are have numerous shortcomings when compared to the iPad and there isn't any indication that either Google or the manufacturers are intent on addressing some of the core shortcomings. Heck, they are in outright denial about one of the biggest - fragmentation!

It makes no difference to me. The market will choose who they like the best. If the Android tablets do correct enough of their deficiencies and start to take of then great! But I think there are lots of delusional people who think Android will "win" just because it's "open" or "not Apple" and that's just crazy.

Were I to take my sisters iPad and give her a Galaxy Tab she would wonder where the apps went to. I think she would want the iPAd back.
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post #197 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Um, no.

When the iPad came out it had its own OS- 3.2. The point of 4.2 was to merge 3.2 and iOS 4.0. The merge was backwards with the iPhone. The iPhone, therefore, runs a tablet OS ( with modifications), not the other way around.

Besides all iOS has an API which is not that different from the Desktop OS. Android, on the other hand, has a much smaller subset of the API on iOS and will have to add lots of API to reach parity, which wont happen for years.

True, but iOS developers aren't allowed to use modified private APIs as Android developers are. Here is a good article discussing the difference in the SDKs (looks to be translated to English). Both have advantages and disadvantages for programmers.
http://hi-android.info/2010/08/24/io...s-android-sdk/
post #198 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

...but there isn't much need to, since most of the summaries presented here bear little resemblance to what was actually said. Of all those, only Ballmer's was accurate.

Go back and look at what was actually said. Sure, there are some competitive statements there, but like RIM rebutting an attack from Apple and Adobe rebutting Jobs' "Thoughts on Flash" with what is actually a much kinder presentation than what Apple posted at their site, the earnest reader must admit the summaries above are a bit misleading.

This post seems indicative of what's become of much of the Mac community in recent years.

Apple makes great products. Enjoy them. But don't fall into the trap of believing that it's impossible for anyone else in the world outside of Apple to ever do anything right.

Such hubris leads to downfall; all empires that rise eventually fall. Why hasten it? It's sad to see those who consider themselves most loyal to the platform doing the most anti-marketing for it.

Hmm. So I post some fighting words from the competition in response to the idea that Apple has somehow crossed a line by noting that current tablet competitors don't measure up, in their opinion, and you see that as symptomatic of Apple worship? If your'e worried about knee-jerk, nonsensical responses you might want to take a look in the mirror. My point was merely that Apple wasn't doing anything unusual, not that they're better or different.

As far as the linked statements being somehow merely competitive (while presumably Apple is being a dick), just to take Google I/O as an example:

Quote:
f we did not act, we faced a Draconian future, a future where one man, one company, one device, one carrier would be our only choice.

Yep, that's pretty mellow. Again, certainly within their right, as is Apple's similarly "competitive" language.

I notice you're going out of your way to make excuses for Adobe and RIM, which I find to be symptomatic of what's happened to the Adobe and RIM communities over the last few years. They were once proud companies, why make it worse by imagining that they never do anything wrong?
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post #199 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwlaw99 View Post

I can see saying that Android apps suck and that Android has no tablet specific apps, but you can't criticize Android tablets like the Galaxy Tab for using the same operating system as Android phones. The iPhone and iPad use the same operating system and that has nothing to do with the fact that the iPad has thousands of tablet specific apps.

I don't think anyone is criticizing the use of Android on both phones and tablets. What is being said is that the current version, Froyo or whatever, is not ready for tablets.

Yes, Apple does use the same OS. In fact, Apple said it was working on the iPad first. But that doesn't mean there aren't differences in the form factors that need to be properly figured in and optimized. It even happened to some degree with iOS for iPad: that's why I couldn't install updates on my ipad for several months and had to wait for 4.2 for feature parity with my iPod Touch for folders and multi-tasking and stuff. Apple simply held back a couple of features from being used until they were ready -- UI stuff was ready to go. This was clearly stated by Apple, so everyone knew exactly what was what -- iPad would not get certain features until 4.2 later in the year, etc.

That's different from a load of manufacturers going off half-cocked and implementing all sorts of things willy-nilly. The criticism is largely that, despite the warning from Google (who, you know, wrote the OS), tablet manufacturers are running ahead just so they have something to put out there against the iPad. This could hurt the user experience of tablets on Android. It could highlight the lead iOS has over Android in terms of UX.
post #200 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwlaw99 View Post

True, but iOS developers aren't allowed to use modified private APIs as Android developers are. Here is a good article discussing the difference in the SDKs (looks to be translated to English). Both have advantages and disadvantages for programmers.
http://hi-android.info/2010/08/24/io...s-android-sdk/

That was badly written, and it is clear that he is not a native English speaker. It is also clear you should never buy an app from this guy, unless you want your app to break on updates.
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