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Apple's Tim Cook dismisses Android iPad competitors as bizarre, vapor - Page 3

post #81 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

I am not sure it's an edge case when you get outside the consumer market. There are a lot of the types of venues in the medical field alone.

But again, why can't the iPod Touch do them today?
post #82 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

You are redefining vaporware.

Apple announced the ipad back in Jan of 2010. It wasn't released until April. Was that vaporware too?

It was announced, with full [meaningful] specs, pricing and availabllity. It was demoed. It existed! It was tangible -- vapor is not!

They delivered on all that they announced!
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post #83 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple's "bizarre" is another firm's "odd"

Web developer Sencha made similar observations in its review of the Galaxy Tab as a potential web development target.

While the tablet fits physically between the size of a smartphone and the iPad, the company noted, "One of the oddest aspects of the Galaxy Tab browser is its CSS pixel to device pixel ratio.

"When queried in landscape mode, the Galaxy reports a screen.width of 683px and screen.height of 334px. Since the actual device resolution offers 1024×600, its giving us a 1.5× ratio of device to CSS pixels. This is a little bit of an odd choice since there shouldnt be any reason why it cant offer a 1:1 device-to-CSS-pixel ratio (or even just match the iPhone/Nexus One convention of a 320 pixel device.width which would give it a 1.875 ratio). This makes the Galaxy slightly bigger than a regular phone screen in CSS pixels, but not really big enough to handle what people want to put in a tablet screen."

The firm concluded, "the practical effect of this decision is that the Galaxy Tab is effectively an 'over-sized phone' for the purposes of web content. For example, an iPad-style side-navigation section just wont fit on the screen. We think its probably best to treat it as a phone with big pixels rather than a true tablet."

Where art thou DaHarder?
post #84 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

But again, why can't the iPod Touch do them today?

I didn't say it couldn't anymore than I denied they could use the current size iPad. I just happen to think there may be a sizable market for such a device. Perhaps I am deluded myself much as those who want an xMac do.

Personally, I would never consider buying a smaller device (well, I don;t think so but then I've not seen it). I like the current iPad.
post #85 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by enzos View Post

Well said!

In other news, journo on Apple-flavored tech site promotes Apple against Android.

Sprockkets has 11 ad hominem posts out of 57 covering 2hours... doesn't that seem a tad obsessive?

Not unless you ask for it. Unlike you I back up my reasons for "attacking" if you want to call it that.
post #86 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

Perhaps I am deluded myself much as those who want an xMac do.

touché

Quote:
Personally, I would never consider buying a smaller device (well, I don;t think so but then I've not seen it). I like the current iPad.

Bogus analogies to the video iPod aside, those waiting for something between the iPod Touch and iPad are in for a long wait...
post #87 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Obviously I turn the truck on to run the a/c while I'm in it. I can't have it sit there idle for hours on end.

If you have the truck on with the a/c running, then the iPad won't be at 110 degrees - so your earlier post is pure FUD.

Thanks for proving that you're making all your stuff up.
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post #88 of 216
I'm always surprised by the arrogance of Apple.. for Android enthusiasts it really helps fuel the belief that avoiding Apple products in favor of Android is the "right" thing to do. Obviously a silly concept... but the idea that Android tablets are irrelevant and/or vapor is equally silly. I use an Android Tablet because I find the experience more engaging and interesting than the iOS experience. I also prefer the 7 inch form factor of my Galaxy Tab... There is NO competitor to the iPad at the 10inch form factor right now... (which I believe is preferred by the average user)... so in that sense he's right about the existing competition. But in the next 3-4 months that will change. The iPad 2 will be needed to keep up with the Android offerings.

iPad 2 could conceivably destroy the Android tablets if the display resolution is as rumored... but according to cook... thats TRULY vaporware at this point.
post #89 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

You mean like they said they would never build a video iPod:

That's right! Because that's an incorrect comparison.

In the case of adding video to ipod, it wasn't that Apple was making a clear statement of intent with products. They were simply saying "we don't have time for that feature right now and we wouldn't tell you if we did".

In the case of the 7" tablet, they have stated many times and in many different ways this is a dumb product, that its a bad idea and it won't sell. Period. End of discussion.

Now if you think they're trying to obfuscate their actual intentions, that's just insanity.
post #90 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It was announced, with full [meaningful] specs, pricing and availabllity. It was demoed. It existed! It was tangible -- vapor is not!

They delivered on all that they announced!

You guys all seem to miss the simple point. If you call something vaporware that was just announced you are predicting it will never come out. Whether or not that item is actually vaporware requires passing of time to verify your claim; unless you possess time travel, you are just shooting in the dark/talking crap.

DED claimed Natal was vaporware, even though it was demoed in front of a live audience way before he said that. It came out. His prediction was dead wrong.

So don't look stupid and call something vaporware then later be called out on it and look like a fool for talking crap about your competitors.

Personally if there is any tablet that is showing up late and can by any stretch of the word be called vaporware it would be the RIM playbook.
post #91 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

I'm always surprised by the arrogance of Apple.. for Android enthusiasts it really helps fuel the belief that avoiding Apple products in favor of Android is the "right" thing to do. Obviously a silly concept... but the idea that Android tablets are irrelevant and/or vapor is equally silly. I use an Android Tablet because I find the experience more engaging and interesting than the iOS experience. I also prefer the 7 inch form factor of my Galaxy Tab... There is NO competitor to the iPad at the 10inch form factor right now... (which I believe is preferred by the average user)... so in that sense he's right about the existing competition. But in the next 3-4 months that will change. The iPad 2 will be needed to keep up with the Android offerings.

iPad 2 could conceivably destroy the Android tablets if the display resolution is as rumored... but according to cook... thats TRULY vaporware at this point.

You know what, I'll grant you that arrogance is not something Apple ought to be engaging in, publicly or otherwise. I didn't listen to the call, but Tim reads on the arrogant side here.

Many of us can remember an earlier, also arrogant Apple that belittled it's competition and didn't count them as important to pay attention to. I personally don't even like the hint that they're making that mistake again. In fact I don't think they are making that mistake, at least I hope they aren't.

So everyone's concern trolling aside (mine included), I just hope as someone else posted earlier that what we heard was bravado and they do take the competition seriously.
post #92 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

I'm always surprised by the arrogance of Apple..

Huh?

Quote:
The iPad 2 will be needed to keep up with the Android offerings.



Whew. Just whew....

Quote:
iPad 2 could conceivably destroy the Android tablets if the display resolution is as rumored... but according to cook... thats TRULY vaporware at this point.

At least until they release it.

And by the way, it won't just be the display resolution that will destroy Android tablets (then again, how can you destroy something that's not a threat in the first place? Oh well, topic for another thread).

It will be the whole ecosystem and user experience combined. Something that no other manufacturer can even come close to.

How many more blockbuster quarters will Apple have to have before they actually get credit for the merits of their platform?
post #93 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

iPad 2 could conceivably destroy the Android tablets if the display resolution is as rumored... but according to cook... thats TRULY vaporware at this point.



That's not vaporware at all - it's speculation by third parties. Apple has said absolutely nothing about the iPad 2.
post #94 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

How many people wear oversized coat/jackets? Again this sounds like a form factor hunting for a reason to exist.

People may think they want a smaller tablet. Lots of people thought they wanted a netbook - until they actually had to use one for significant length of time. I can't tell you how many times I would hear people extol the cheapness of netbooks, and then gush about all the ways they augmented their netbooks with upgrades. Often when they got done, they spent more on a netbook than they did on a real notebook and ended up permanently hobbled and eventually dissatisfied.

I have no doubt the same thing will happen with 7" tablets. There will be a bell curve with probably some significant initial sales - the die hard apologists will insist it's the best thing ever even if they are inwardly gritting their teeth - but that's hardly enough to build a viable business strategy on.

You don't know for a fact that people would regret buying a 7" tablet, so you can't say there is "absolutely no evidence that people want nor desire 7" tablets." Personally, I agree with you and with Apple that 9.7" is probably best for most users. However, that doesn't negate the possibility that there are people out there who think the iPod Touch is too small, the iPad too big, and would prefer something in between. Is there a big population of such people? Maybe yes, maybe no. Do I think Apple will care to appeal to that subset? Probably not. But I don't deny their existence.
post #95 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by REC View Post

You know what, I'll grant you that arrogance is not something Apple ought to be engaging in, publicly or otherwise. I didn't listen to the call, but Tim reads on the arrogant side here.

And Microsoft, Google, etc. have never made strongly worded statements that could be construed as "arrogant"?

How droll. Of all the irrational reasons to not buy a product this is the most tiresome of all of them.
post #96 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

If you have the truck on with the a/c running, then the iPad won't be at 110 degrees - so your earlier post is pure FUD.

Thanks for proving that you're making all your stuff up.

OMG, are you that stupid?

I arrive at a job. I turn the truck off. It's fucking florida and it gets 98 degrees every day in the summer. And if you went to school you would know that's the temperature in the shade.

So now my truck is in the sun as I can't be in the shade all the time. I spend sometimes 8 hours at a job. I'm not allowed to let a truck idle with the a/c on for 8 hours. Not only is that a waste of gas and money, it is bad for any vehicle to idle. If I don't put the tablet in standby it will turn off due to thermal overload around 3 hours due to the processing involved with our FSA.

You people complain about ad hominem with me? STFU.
post #97 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Really? Vaporware? They just announced their tablets like a week and a half ago.

Three months from now if there is nothing, that's vaporware. Sheesh.

Interesting philosposy. That a non-shipping product with unknown features, price point, or with avaialbe OS are somehow real products when announced but become vaporware later.
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post #98 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

How many more blockbuster quarters will Apple have to have before they actually get credit for the merits of their platform?

That's something Apple's detractors will never grasp. Apple is one of the most successful technology companies to date. They arguably deliver more goodies for the masses than any other company will ever do. Despite all the positives and the success, it will always be because of fanboys, or marketing or because somehow millions of people must be wrong. It certainly couldn't be that the tiny, crazy minority of nerds and gadget lunatics who have no concept of anything practical are themselves clueless.

But seriously the answer is 20. 20 blockbuster quarters and then, only then, will Apple get these idiots to see the light.
post #99 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by ispeakinsong View Post

However, that doesn't negate the possibility that there are people out there who think the iPod Touch is too small, the iPad too big, and would prefer something in between.

There probably are. Enough to make it a significant enough device worthy of the investment to produce? Hardly likely.

I guess we will see, won't we? Personally, I don't think I am going out on much of a limb predicting netbook 2.0
post #100 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by rec View Post

but seriously the answer is 20. 20 blockbuster quarters and then, only then, will apple get these idiots to see the light.

42...
post #101 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

And Microsoft, Google, etc. have never made strongly worded statements that could be construed as "arrogant"?

How droll. Of all the irrational reasons to not buy a product this is the most tiresome of all of them.

It's corporate policy, of any company, to never talk bad about your competitors, ever. It never makes you look good. Customers see that and lose faith in your integrity to do a good job.
post #102 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Huh?





Whew. Just whew....



At least until they release it.

And by the way, it won't just be the display resolution that will destroy Android tablets (then again, how can you destroy something that's not a threat in the first place? Oh well, topic for another thread).

It will be the whole ecosystem and user experience combined. Something that no other manufacturer can even come close to.

How many more blockbuster quarters will Apple have to have before they actually get credit for the merits of their platform?

Your post certainly reeks of arrogance as well. If your argument is that the iPad 1 is superior to the upcoming android tablets I'd be very interested in hearing your reasoning as to how.

If your argument is purely based on sales volume... well good for you... I'm personally interested in buying the best product I can, I really could give two poops about sales volume. Since we're all consumers here and not Apple or Google.

If the rumors about the iPad 2 are true.... then I will be purchasing an iPad 2 because it will be the superior platform.... but right now they're pure speculation. We do however know what the specs for several of the upcoming Android tablets will be....

I give Apple all the credit in the world... iOS is a spectacular platform... iPad is a spectacular product... everybody and their MOM is giving Apple credit. Calm down.
post #103 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by REC View Post

Now if you think they're trying to obfuscate their actual intentions, that's just insanity.

I am saying that Apple is not as inflexible as some would believe. If they (or more importantly, their competitors) identify a significant market opportunity in a smaller form factor, they might well decide to address that market.

I think this is kind of played out. Some believe that 'never' means 'never' while others believe 'never' means 'not right now'. I tend not to think in absolutes especially as it regards Apple.
post #104 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

And Microsoft, Google, etc. have never made strongly worded statements that could be construed as "arrogant"?

They have, and these companies stumble in huge, gargantuan ways. Really big huge dumb ways. Why would you want Apple to be like them? I don't, that's what I'm saying.

Quote:
How droll. Of all the irrational reasons to not buy a product this is the most tiresome of all of them.

Ok just so we understand each other, I'm somebody who buys too many Apple products. That's why I come here, to speculate and see what the rumors are. So maybe your statement there was intended for the other guy, but don't think that it applies to me.
post #105 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by REC View Post

That's something Apple's detractors will never grasp. Apple is one of the most successful technology companies to date. They arguably deliver more goodies for the masses than any other company will ever do. Despite all the positives and the success, it will always be because of fanboys, or marketing or because somehow millions of people must be wrong. It certainly couldn't be that the tiny, crazy minority of nerds and gadget lunatics who have no concept of anything practical are themselves clueless.

But seriously the answer is 20. 20 blockbuster quarters and then, only then, will Apple get these idiots to see the light.

Interesting argument... you do realize millions of people are using Android right? Not just "gadget lunatics".
post #106 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

It's corporate policy, of any company, to never talk bad about your competitors, ever. It never makes you look good. Customers see that and lose faith in your integrity to do a good job.

Uhuh - what fantasy land do you live in?

And what exactly was said by Tim Cook that wasn't accurate? Other than the truth being painful, what did he say that would cause your supposed loss of integrity?

Give me a break - talk about grasping....
post #107 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

Interesting argument... you do realize millions of people are using Android right? Not just "gadget lunatics".

You're equivocating falsely. I never said people using Android = Apple detractors. Many of them just didn't want to be on ATT, or couldn't afford the iPhone, so they went with something else. I'm sure many Android users like Apple just fine.
post #108 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Well it also has to be a tested solution. My company spend 4 million dollars on that system.

Not to mention too I doubt the ipad can print to our printers, ever.

We also have our incoming call center use that same system to keep track of our customers info, make new work orders to order parts from various venders, etc.

In the future when tablet's (more like ARM) gets good enough, we'll see a shift. But the support and infrastructure isn't there yet, and Apple doesn't seem to get the enterprise.

The iPad has the capability to print to printers, with a feature known as AirPrint. The iPad certainly prints to printer compatible with that technology. No drivers are required.

The iPad is a new concept, for sure. I understand your company would want to test it out. The important thing is you have to be prepared to take a risk.

Also, you say that Apple doesn't seem to get the enterprise. If in order to "get the enterprise," Apple must support legacy technology and make its products compatible with antiquated devices, then don't even waste your time with an iPad.
post #109 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

Your post certainly reeks of arrogance as well. If your argument is that the iPad 1 is superior to the upcoming android tablets I'd be very interested in hearing your reasoning as to how.

If your argument is purely based on sales volume...

Not just on sales volume, although that ultimately is the largest factor for success - especially since Apple does not subsidize their products like many Android manufacturers. It's also based on usability, attachment rates, the health of the developer ecosystem, the acceptance into large companies - those are all important factors.

Quote:
I'm personally interested in buying the best product I can, I really could give two poops about sales volume.

Well, you should care at least a little about sales volume. While WebOS was, at least to me, the most interesting mobile OS after iOS, it was a poor investment since they never got enough volume to get decent developer interest. It will be interesting to see if HP can do anything with it or if they will just continue to sit on it and let it wither

Quote:
If the rumors about the iPad 2 are true.... then I will be purchasing an iPad 2 because it will be the superior platform.... but right now they're pure speculation. We do however know what the specs for several of the upcoming Android tablets will be....

Even if the iPad 2 doesn't have all of the over the top specs that have been rumored, will it still matter? The success of the iPhone and now iPad certainly hasn't been feature dependent (as we know since the lack of USB, SD cards, dual core and a myriad of other "vital" features are continually cited). At the end of the day overall usability is what really matters to people. It's the sum of the parts. No one has that focus to the level that Apple has.

I'm not saying they have a monopoly on it - but up until now, there hasn't been a vendor willing (or able) to step up to the level of focus, control and polish as Apple.

Quote:
I give Apple all the credit in the world... iOS is a spectacular platform... iPad is a spectacular product... everybody and their MOM is giving Apple credit. Calm down.

And here we have the forum equivalent to "just saying"
post #110 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by REC View Post

You're equivocating falsely. I never said people using Android = Apple detractors. Many of them just didn't want to be on ATT, or couldn't afford the iPhone, so they went with something else. I'm sure many Android users like Apple just fine.

Ok fair enough. But I think you are mistaken about Android users, and I think there are at least as many apple users who use apple products because its considered 'cool' and not because its a better platform. Im sure many Apple users like Android just fine.
post #111 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

Interesting argument... you do realize millions of people are using Android right? Not just "gadget lunatics".

Are they "using" it because they sought it out, or because they got it for free or as part of a two for one special?

Every iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad was sought out by those who own them - they went out of their way to purchase them. Android? Not necessarily so.

Web and app usage also bear this out, so I'm not just being flip or glib...
post #112 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Not unless you ask for it. Unlike you I back up my reasons for "attacking" if you want to call it that.

You are a troll.
post #113 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

Ok fair enough. But I think you are mistaken about Android users, and I think there are at least as many apple users who use apple products because its considered 'cool' and not because its a better platform.

Ah, but heres the difference. iOS is far "stickier" - once they have an iOS device and start getting Apps and investing in the ecosystem, how likely are they to change later?

Of all the issues I could see a company having, your products being perceived as "cool" sure as heck doesn't sound like a really bad one. In fact, I would think it would be kind of desirable.

Is it some sort of IT "sin" to actually enjoy using a device that doesn't require tinkering or that may be, god forbid, "cool"?!?

Because I see that tossed out as this huge negative all the time. It makes me think of the infamous scene in the princess bride "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Quote:
Im sure many Apple users like Android just fine.

A few of the geekier ones who like to tinker perhaps...
post #114 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Not just on sales volume, although that ultimately is the largest factor for success - especially since Apple does not subsidize their products like many Android manufacturers. It's also based on usability, attachment rates, the health of the developer ecosystem, the acceptance into large companies - those are all important factors.

I'm personally interested in buying the best product I can, I really could give two poops about sales volume.[/quote]

Well, you should care at least a little about sales volume. While WebOS was, at least to me, the most interesting mobile OS after iOS, it was a poor investment since they never got enough volume to get decent developer interest. It will be interesting to see if HP can do anything with it or if they will just continue to sit on it and let it wither



Even if the iPad 2 doesn't have all of the over the top specs that have been rumored, will it still matter? The success of the iPhone and now iPad certainly hasn't been feature dependent (as we know since the lack of USB, SD cards, dual core and a myriad of other "vital" features are continually cited). At the end of the day overall usability is what really matters to people. It's the sum of the parts. No one has that focus to the level that Apple has.

I'm not saying they have a monopoly on it - but up until now, there hasn't been a vendor willing (or able) to step up to the level of focus, control and polish as Apple.



And here we have the forum equivalent to "just saying" [/QUOTE]

I think we can all agree that Android has a pretty substantial install base at this point, and is currently growing faster than any other platform. So the argument that I should be concerned about a thriving developer community is an exceptionally weak argument.

Ive already said I find the Android user experience superior to the iOS experience. So for me the feature set of the iPad would need to be significant to persuade me to abandon what I deem a superior user experience.

Dude you're the one going omg omg noone respects apple omg omg
post #115 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

Ok fair enough. But I think you are mistaken about Android users, and I think there are at least as many apple users who use apple products because its considered 'cool' and not because its a better platform. Im sure many Apple users like Android just fine.

Count me as one of them. I think the Android platform is fine and is a potential, credible competitor to an Apple dominated future. If Apple is lazy or makes critical mistakes, then yes Android could become the predominant mobile OS. It's not there, and it probably won't be, but its a decent #2. It does help to keep Apple on its toes, MS certainly doesn't, neither does blackberry. The way things are going right now, things like webOS or win7 mobile are shaping up to be fighting for scraps at #3/4 or even #5. Decidedly in the 'other' category.

However I don't think any number of real people buy Apple products for the sole reason because it's cool. The only people who could do that would be the uber-rich, which is like 1% of the population. I doubt that these people are a significant portion of Apple's user base, given that they have sold 160 million iOS devices.

In fact I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people who do buy Apple stuff is because they do consider it superior, whether you agree with them or not.

Note: At this point I would never buy an Android product, because I do consider it an inferior platform of lesser technology.
post #116 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Offthewall View Post

(Apple's vaporware today - iPad 2).

Actually, no.
It would only be 'vaporware' if Apple were talking about it. They're not.
post #117 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by androidmax View Post

Interesting argument... you do realize millions of people are using Android right? Not just "gadget lunatics".

From that millions of Android devices, may be only 10% are slightly better than iPhone 3GS. The rest are POS from unknown makers like Eken, ZTE, Forsa, FirstOne, MENQ, Dopod, etc that mere mortals think it's better than Nokia.
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post #118 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Uhuh - what fantasy land do you live in?

And what exactly was said by Tim Cook that wasn't accurate? Other than the truth being painful, what did he say that would cause your supposed loss of integrity?

Give me a break - talk about grasping....

Whether or not it is true is irrelevant. At my company I have to take great efforts to not badmouth crummy companies we service.

As great as it feels to talk crap about stuff, it never works to your advantage, ever. That is policy at the companies I've worked at, like Siemens and SBC and Palm and others. At my current company if they find out I've badmouthed anyone, I'm fired.
post #119 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Well it also has to be a tested solution. My company spend 4 million dollars on that system.

Not to mention too I doubt the ipad can print to our printers, ever.

We also have our incoming call center use that same system to keep track of our customers info, make new work orders to order parts from various venders, etc.

In the future when tablet's (more like ARM) gets good enough, we'll see a shift. But the support and infrastructure isn't there yet, and Apple doesn't seem to get the enterprise.


You haven't answered the question "What do you do?". Is what you do or who you work for a secret?

It's not MI-5 is it? Your name isn't Bond. James Bond!

Just kidding...
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post #120 of 216
Hey look kudoz to Apple marketing for creating the 'cool' buzz. But do you really beleive most iOS users tried Android and iOS and then selected iOS? No way! Most iOS users dont even have a clue about what Android offers. They just know what an iPhone is and had to get one. Thats not taking anything away from Apple, but you cant say that makes ot a superior operating system. And folks like you and me select our devices in a completely different way than the vast majority of users.
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