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Congress acts to undo Bush's disastrous and costly environment-killing legislation - Page 2

post #41 of 71
1/24/11 at 12:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

This shows why this should act as a wake-up call. Markets innovate and use this newer tech because it makes sense, consumers on the other hand are stuck in there old fashioned ignorant piles of --it, at least a lot of them. There's far more innovation than just GE ( from your next post).



I don't understand your apparent separation of "consumers" from "the market". The market is comprised of consumers. When have consumers ever rejected "newer tech" that "makes sense"?
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post #42 of 71
1/24/11 at 12:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

...Christ, and people like him PLAY the Jesus card...sick...literally.

Christ plays the Jesus card?

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post #43 of 71
1/24/11 at 1:08pm
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Originally Posted by john galt View Post

Christ plays the Jesus card?


The funny thing about Christ (I think he's the light, speaking of witch!) is, and i heard this on NPR and only have that to go by, is he apparently when asked what hell is, gave the more than retarded response that "hells like a trash heap". Silly, but i thought i'd respond with that bizzareness.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #44 of 71
1/24/11 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post



I don't understand your apparent separation of "consumers" from "the market". The market is comprised of consumers. When have consumers ever rejected "newer tech" that "makes sense"?

This is all so important. Do you really care that consumers aren't green by choice all too often?

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #45 of 71
1/24/11 at 1:24pm
I think I can summarize the key point here in one statement:

Quote:
Some people aren't doing what some other people (e.g., Hands Sandon, et al) think they should be doing, so those (ignorant and retarded) people need to be forced to do it.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #46 of 71
1/24/11 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I think I can summarize the key point here in one statement:



That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

Yeah, that's about it.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #47 of 71
1/24/11 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Yeah, that's about it.

Thanks for your honesty about your authoritarian tendencies. We don't usually get such transparency around here. People typically try to obfuscate their real intentions and motivations behind a smokescreen of high-minded (sounding) rhetoric and rationale. Though I find your intentions disheartening, your honesty is a breath of fresh air.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #48 of 71
1/24/11 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Thanks for your honesty about your authoritarian tendencies. We don't usually get such transparency around here. People typically try to obfuscate their real intentions and motivations behind a smokescreen of high-minded (sounding) rhetoric and rationale. Though I find your intentions disheartening, your honesty is a breath of fresh air.

Why not rule over people so that they can be free and happy with a bright future? I can't say enough good things about the knowledge we can pass on.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #49 of 71
1/24/11 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Why not rule over people so that they can be free and happy with a bright future?

Are you being deliberately ironic or is it that you don't see the irony in your statement?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #50 of 71
1/24/11 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Why not rule over people so that they can be free and happy with a bright future? I can't say enough good things about the knowledge we can pass on.

I'll take oxymoron's for 1000 Alex...
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"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #51 of 71
1/24/11 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Are you being deliberately ironic or is it that you don't see the irony in your statement?

Your not trying to say that you don't believe that your favoured form of government wouldn't rule over us are you?

Come on MJ, for all your limited government talk you really want it to be a system that we all have to abide by. Take the US constitution, it's brutally controling in many ways, but you're not admiting that fact or are too brainwashed to see it. Laws and freedom don't mix. People fight to win and in the course of human history we managed without laws and didn't set into motion for a long time the ghastly situation of control across our lives that we would willingly object to.

Give me a break...your laws make stuff break and he who can break the most stuff, rules.

Simplistic a bit but you're not innocent buddy.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #52 of 71
1/24/11 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Your not trying to say that you don't believe that your favoured form of government wouldn't rule over us are you?

I do not wish to rule or be ruled.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Come on MJ, for all your limited government talk you really want it to be a system that we all have to abide by.

I advocate for the greatest amount of freedom for the greatest number of people. This is a "system that we all have to abide by" only in the sense of respecting the freedom of others and refraining from trying to use force and coercion to achieve your goals.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #53 of 71
1/24/11 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I'll take oxymoron's for 1000 Alex...

I never watched more than 5 mins...I get it since mj's post...

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #54 of 71
1/24/11 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I do not wish to rule or be ruled.




I advocate for the greatest amount of freedom for the greatest number of people. This is a "system that we all have to abide by" only in the sense of respecting the freedom of others and refraining from trying to use force and coercion to achieve your goals.

You either lack imagination or you forget history (and todays times) I suspect both.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #55 of 71
1/24/11 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You either lack imagination or you forget history (and todays times) I suspect both.

I understand that you hate freedom (at least for others) but, please, do tell: In what way do I lack imagination or forget history?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #56 of 71
1/24/11 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I understand that you hate freedom (at least for others) but, please, do tell: In what way do I lack imagination or forget history?

You don't understand much outside of your narrow goals.

Think how free you are without any money to get the ball rolling. Oh but you think thats a vital incentive...so there goes that argument.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #57 of 71
1/24/11 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You don't understand much outside of your narrow goals.

You might be surprised to know how much I do understand. One thing I understand is that you like to make assumptions and assertions about what I understand. \


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Think how free you are without any money to get the ball rolling. Oh but you think thats a vital incentive...so there goes that argument.

And you were accusing me of being simplistic. Again irony rears its head.


OK. So let me see if I understand: Freedom doesn't really work, and people must be ruled because people are ignorant and retarded (particularly in the selection and use of light bulbs). Is that it?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #58 of 71
1/24/11 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You might be surprised to know how much I do understand. One thing I understand is that you like to make assumptions and assertions about what I understand. \




And you were accusing me of being simplistic. Again irony rears its head.

If you won't even accept that the value of something is the value it plays as part of a structure that supports life in abundance, connected through nature not the almighty dollar that tears it apart to make something "better" then your falling short, very short.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #59 of 71
1/24/11 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If you won't even accept that the value of something is the value it plays as part of a structure that supports life in abundance, connected through nature not the almighty dollar that tears it apart to make something "better" then your falling short, very short.



Tell me: How do we determine the "value" of something?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #60 of 71
1/24/11 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


Come on, that doesn't mean anything to you?

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #61 of 71
1/24/11 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Come on, that doesn't mean anything to you?

Well, it was a rather incoherent sentence. But tell me: How do we determine and express the value of something?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #62 of 71
1/24/11 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Well, it was a rather incoherent sentence. But tell me: How do we determine and express the value of something?

Well if you don't value society that doesn't value something in terms of what it can produce in dollars, then it's best to exploit it, with a monarch or a monarchconstitution.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #63 of 71
1/24/11 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Well if you don't value society that doesn't value something in terms of what it can produce in dollars, then it's best to exploit it, with a monarch or a monarchconstitution.

You seem to be evading a fairly straight forward question: How do we determine and express the value of something?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #64 of 71
1/24/11 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You seem to be evading a fairly straight forward question: How do we determine and express the value of something?

I'm evading? Talk about irony, lol.

What would you give your life for..that's surely a value of worth in some ways. But now our planets dying and it's not important...BS! Exxeon mobil banks etc will fucking pay and not just out of their phat wallets.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #65 of 71
1/24/11 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I'm evading? Talk about irony, lol.

What would you give your life for..that's surely a value of worth in some ways. But now our planets dying and it's not important...BS! Exxeon mobil banks etc will fucking pay and not just out of their phat wallets.

So you're not going to answer my question. OK.

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post #66 of 71
1/24/11 at 4:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Why not rule over people so that they can be free and happy with a bright future? I can't say enough good things about the knowledge we can pass on.



You've really lost me Hands!

What with Christ playing the Jesus card on NPR and enslaving people so they can be free and happy, I think I've ventured waay too far enough down the rabbit hole with you for my comfort. Say hi to Alice for me.
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post #67 of 71
1/24/11 at 10:07pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Profit motive and environmental responsibility often sit at odds with each other. Regulations and subsidies are important to kickstart greener technologies. These new technologies benefit society as a whole. What does pure profit motive do? It buys out and dismantles a mass transit system in LA so more cars have to be purchased. That certainly did not benefit my city. The consumer was fucked there. There was no choice.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #68 of 71
1/24/11 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Profit motive and environmental responsibility often sit at odds with each other. Regulations and subsidies are important to kickstart greener technologies. These new technologies benefit society as a whole. What does pure profit motive do? It buys out and dismantles a mass transit system in LA so more cars have to be purchased. That certainly did not benefit my city. The consumer was fucked there. There was no choice.

It also causes companies to do whatever it takes to increase production of whatever they sell at a lower initial cost to themselves for greater profit when sold to the consumer. This can have the adverse effect in a free market of destroying the company when the consumer tires of the crap they sell and stops purchasing from the company. Profit motive can and often does go entirely too far and leads to the destruction of otherwise wonderful companies.

A link to your story would be good so a person, if they desired, could speak directly to your situation rather than in generalities. My experience with Mass Transit in my state has been negative. A black hole where tax dollars disappear and the problems (traffic congestion, city planning issues) they are supposed to solve never seem to change.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #69 of 71
1/24/11 at 10:31pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
The financial crisis we had is unequivocally based on greed further unbridled by deregulation. There seems to be very few large, powerful corporations out there that really focus on social responsibility at the cost of maximized profits. And with the awful Citizens United ruling, corporations are people, money is speech, and thus those that can do the most harm to society have the loudest voices in government.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_A...eetcar_scandal

There certainly were other factors, but GM actively sought to destroy the electric rails to replace them with buses they sold.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #70 of 71
1/25/11 at 2:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_A...eetcar_scandal

There certainly were other factors, but GM actively sought to destroy the electric rails to replace them with buses they sold.

Remember the Old Red Car line when I was a kid and the P rail line running down Pico Blvd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Electric_Railway

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ic_Railway.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Railway

LA has never recovered from the loss of this system.....Starting to make a comeback with LA Metro Rail system.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #71 of 71
2/16/11 at 4:03pm
Thread Starter 
Has this guy no shame? Not only does he abandon plans to equip his Crawford ranch with Earth-saving solar panels, he's hoarding tens of thousands of gallons worth of Nature's pure rain water for his own selfish purposes.

As if that weren't enough, he's drilling 300 foot holes deep into Mother Earth... for the specific purpose of pumping Texas's extreme right-wing searing heat... directly into Her heart!



Quote:
President George W. Bush didn’t stop there. The Bushes installed a geothermal heating and cooling system for their home in Crawford, Texas, using only about a quarter of the electricity that standard heating and air-conditioning systems ordinarily consume, USAToday reports.

Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2...#ixzz1EAad9MSu
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