or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Microsoft ships 2 million Windows Phone 7 handsets in holiday quarter
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Microsoft ships 2 million Windows Phone 7 handsets in holiday quarter

post #1 of 86
Thread Starter 
Microsoft on Wednesday revealed that it shipped two million Windows Phone 7 handsets worldwide over the holiday quarter, lagging well behind the 16.2 million iPhones sold by Apple in the same period.

Microsoft Senior Product Manager Greg Sullivan revealed to Ina Fried of Mobilized that more than two million Windows Phone 7 devices were shipped to carriers worldwide by the end of December. It's the first update from Microsoft since the Windows maker revealed it had shipped 1.5 million handsets in mid-December.

"We're still in the early stages," Sullivan said. "When people use this phone, they really, really like it."

He added that 93 percent of early customers indicated they are "satisfied" or "very satisfied" with Windows Phone 7. Based on customer satisfaction data, Sullivan said he believes Microsoft is on the right track.

The company did not, however, reveal how many of those shipped phones were actually sold to consumers. The total number represents handsets shipped to carriers, not end sales.

Regardless, the numbers are well behind Apple's iPhone, which recently had a record breaking quarter with sales of 16.2 million units over the 2010 holiday buying season. Windows Phone 7 launched in parts of Europe and Asia on Oct. 21, and in the U.S. on Nov. 8.

The shipment numbers for Windows Phone 7 are also lower that those reported by Gartner for Microsoft's own, earlier Windows Mobile 6.x platform in the third quarter of 2010, which amounted to 2.25 million units worldwide.

Microsoft will further discuss the launch of Windows Phone 7 when it reports its quarterly earnings on Thursday. Expectations on Wall Street are for the Redmond, Wash., software giant to report earnings of $5.93 billion which, if accurate, would lag behind the $6 billion in quarterly profits reported by Apple last week.
post #2 of 86
Windows shipped 2 million phones, but Apple sold 16.2 million.

These are not the same things are they?
post #3 of 86
They've shipped 2 million and I've yet to see one in the wild.
post #4 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennywse View Post

Windows shipped 2 million phones, but Apple sold 16.2 million.

These are not the same things are they?

If you are referring to shipped and sold, in this situation they are because each of those smartphones shipped to carriers means a WP7 license sold to the vendor.

It’s too early to tell if WP7 will improve their position but I don’t think 2M is bad at all for this launch. MS was already floating around 10% smartphone marketshare with WM6 devices and a knowledge that WP7 was coming so I’d think they’d improve on that in the coming quarters.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #5 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by halhiker View Post

They've shipped 2 million and I've yet to see one in the wild.

I have!

...in the hands of friend who was working for Microsoft at the time.

Personally, I sort of hope they do better than this. They put some real thought and work into that phone and it doesn't suck. Much.

Basically, I want Apple to keep doing backflips to stay ahead. Android is also a serious competitor, of course, but it's basically going to take us back to balkanized, vendor-controlled handsets that are a nightmare for both users and developers. If Google ever gets it together, I'd take another look, but it seems like Google doesn't have any incentive for that to happen.
post #6 of 86
"Shipping" phones to carrier stores is not the same as "selling" them. For all we know the channel is stuffed with them and they are collecting dust.

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply
post #7 of 86
Oh, nevermind.
post #8 of 86
Steve Bummer will eat the rest! LOL!
post #9 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Expectations on Wall Street are for the Redmond, Wash., software giant to report earnings of $5.93 billion which, if accurate, would lag behind the $6 billion in quarterly profits reported by Apple last week.

I think maybe you guys buried the lead --- when was the last time that Apple's quarterly profits were greater than Microsoft's? Was it in the 1980s? In any event, that will be another major milestone for Apple if it turns out to be true...
post #10 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

"Shipping" phones to carrier stores is not the same as "selling" them. For all we know the channel is stuffed with them and they are collecting dust.

Microsoft got paid all the same.

I switched from a iPhone 3G to a Samsung Focus 2 weeks ago. I dont miss my iPhone at all. The interface is so much better on the Windows Phone. My 3G with iOS 4.x was a dog, so the massive performance boost is probably tainting my viewpoint.
post #11 of 86
Asymco (Horace Dediu) is reporting via twitter that

"Microsoft sold more than 2 million Windows Phone 7 licenses to OEMs for phones that might get sold to operators that might get sold to users"

which is slightly different yet again.
post #12 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

"Shipping" phones to carrier stores is not the same as "selling" them. For all we know the channel is stuffed with them and they are collecting dust.

Microsoft does not make phones, hence, MS did not ship phones to carrier stores.

As solopsism pointed out, the business models are different. Apple sells consumer electronics, and sells phones. MS, for the most part, does not sell consumer electronics products, but sells the OS. In other words, there are no MS branded phones. So, what this means is that MS sold 2 million licenses to Phone makers during the period.

Thus, it is a sale just as Apple selling a phone is a sale.

The question of market share is different, and cannot be assessed based on MS sales numbers, without making assumptions because MS does not sell phones.

Unless you wish to assume that the laws of economics have been repealed, and phone makers are buying licenses for phones that are not selling, and that have no hope of being sold, then it is safe to assume that the phones are selling at a reasonable enough rate for the phone makers to continue buying the licenses.
post #13 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by halhiker View Post

They've shipped 2 million and I've yet to see one in the wild.

I've managed to see 2 of them here in NZ, both from HTC. Can't recall what model they were.

Still, I'd say 2 millions at this stage of product's life is not bad. I'd be surprised if Apple or Androids were shipping much more in the first months they were introduced. Also consider that WP7 is competing against iPhone and Android (plus BB, Nokia, remaining of Palm etc) so it's competition is tougher than what iP and A were facing.

Additionally, I've read somewhere that number WP7 apps is growing faster than Android apps were growing at the same time after release. Don't know how that compares to iPhone app history but then iPhone didn't have app store at the time of release, so I don't think you can compare them easily.

All in all, WP7 is doing fine for time being. Will it manage to keep momentum, now that is different question.
post #14 of 86
MS needs to stop surveying it own employee about how that like their own products
post #15 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Its too early to tell if WP7 will improve their position but I dont think 2M is bad at all for this launch. MS was already floating around 10% smartphone marketshare with WM6 devices...

Actually I do think it's disappointing. WM6 phones sold 2.25 million in 3Q (less than 3%). WP7 was long awaited and much hyped. If Samsung can sell 10 million of one model, Galaxy S, in 10 months....
post #16 of 86
inside Microsoft is probably getting punished for it.
post #17 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Microsoft got paid all the same.

I switched from a iPhone 3G to a Samsung Focus 2 weeks ago. I dont miss my iPhone at all. The interface is so much better on the Windows Phone. My 3G with iOS 4.x was a dog, so the massive performance boost is probably tainting my viewpoint.

I was in the same boat. Got the iPhone 4 and can't imagine anything being better.
I've tried several of the Androids, but not a WP7 phone. I'd really like to though.
post #18 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Actually I do think it's disappointing. WM6 phones sold 2.25 million in 3Q (less than 3%). WP7 was long awaited and much hyped. If Samsung can sell 10 million of one model, Galaxy S, in 10 months....

How many countries is WP7 sold in? How many devices are currently shipping with WP7? How many licenses of WM did they also sell this past quarter?

Like I said, I dont think this is a bad start to a new mobile OS. Its certainly not a triumph either, but I cant look at this first quarter and see a definite trend that will lead to ultimate WP7 failure.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #19 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Microsoft on Wednesday revealed that it shipped two million Windows Phone 7 handsets worldwide over the holiday quarter ...

Even though the source of this article repeats the same claim, most other sites are reporting this as "MS sells 2 million licences," (not phones).

So, not only *not* phone sales to consumers, but also not even "phone sales" to vendors, just licences.

I know it's a bit of a picky point, but most misconceptions arise from this kind of sloppy language. If tech sites started being a bit more professional, a bit more specific and a bit more accurate in their reporting, we'd all benefit immensely.
post #20 of 86
Being an AAPL shareholder, I'd like to see MS do better. I'm pretty sure that every WP7 phone sold is one less Android sold.

This makes Apple's iAd that much more attractive to advertisers.
post #21 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Even though the source of this article repeats the same claim, most other sites are reporting this as "MS sells 2 million licences," (not phones).

So, not only *not* phone sales to consumers, but also not even "phone sales" to vendors, just licences.

I know it's a bit of a picky point, but most misconceptions arise from this kind of sloppy language. If tech sites started being a bit more professional, a bit more specific and a bit more accurate in their reporting, we'd all benefit immensely.

MS can't report phone sales, because they do not make phones. It would be like asking how many HDTVs does Apple sell?

MS and Apple have different business models.

However, as I said before, one would have to assume that the Phone makers are knowingly and willingly throwing money away, and decreasing their profits, if WP7 is not selling at all. The most parsimonious explanation is that the phones are selling at a respectable, if not astronomical rate, hence the phone makers continue to buy the OS for their phones.
post #22 of 86
Apple's channel inventory is what, 3.5 million iPhones? If you just consider the approx. activation numbers from Apple, all Androids, RIM and Nokia... that is not even a 3% smartphone share. By all means, based on the big claims, comments in places like Engadget and Gizmodo forums, and the iPhone and RIM funeral held by MS employees... this is a disaster, a Zune that does calls. And this does include the holiday season plus pent-up demand, if any...

MS is stubborn, and they will keep trying. But these sales numbers do not even cover the marketing cost, if the rumored cost of a WP7 license is somewhat in the ballpark.
post #23 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Steve Bummer will eat the rest! LOL!

No, they'll go out to the same landfill where all those Atari 2600 ET cartridges were buried.

Quote:
Originally Posted by halhiker View Post

They've shipped 2 million and I've yet to see one in the wild.

I've seen only one, and I live in the land of Microsoft (I used to see Zunes when I took the bus to work - my bus ran by the MSFT campus). It was owned by the husband of a Microsoft employee who was almost forced into having one. Apparently Microsoft no longer provides discounts on carrier service to employees who have iPhones (apparently Android or feature phones are okay, but iPhones are not). He hated the thing and missed his iPhone.
post #24 of 86
Microsoft did not ship phones because it does not manufacture phones. Microsoft licensed WP 7 software to vendors who shipped the phones to carriers like AT&T.

And as far as 2 million is concerned, they are are already going for "Buy 1 and get 1 free".
post #25 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

MS can't report phone sales, because they do not make phones. It would be like asking how many HDTVs does Apple sell?

MS and Apple have different business models.

However, as I said before, one would have to assume that the Phone makers are knowingly and willingly throwing money away, and decreasing their profits, if WP7 is not selling at all. The most parsimonious explanation is that the phones are selling at a respectable, if not astronomical rate, hence the phone makers continue to buy the OS for their phones.

Google sure likes to tout activation numbers.
post #26 of 86
This isn't actual phone sales, but the fact that the number has increased means that enough phones have been sold to require more licenses to be purchased. So on the whole it seems good. Not iPhone beating in the slightest but these things take years to gain momentum. Just look how many more iPhones got sold last year and it was already popular.
post #27 of 86
I don't see why several sites hate on Windows Phone 7. It's not a bad product. Just too late in the game.
post #28 of 86
Shipping guarantees no revenue; even invoicing OEMs for licences guarantees no revenue. They might count as sales for accountancy purposes, but it's disingenuous to suggest that these sales are a sign of success of the MS phone OS. All it is a sign of is the size of arm twisting that MS can apply to its OEMs to take high minimum order numbers with no payment for multi-month periods, perhaps even more than a year.

The question nobody's asking though is why is it that with 90% (OK, maybe less these days) of the world computer market and an estimated 180 million Windows users out there, how come they only sold 2 million licences? That's just a tiny fraction over 1% of their installed user base; Apple's numbers are far higher than this for one reason - user satisfaction. Now that's something MS don't usually care about because their Business Model cuts the user out of the decision making process and concentrates instead on the needs of OEMs. Apple's business model in contrast is designed around making you, the user, happy and content.
post #29 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Microsoft does not make phones, hence, MS did not ship phones to carrier stores.

As solopsism pointed out, the business models are different. Apple sells consumer electronics, and sells phones. MS, for the most part, does not sell consumer electronics products, but sells the OS. In other words, there are no MS branded phones. So, what this means is that MS sold 2 million licenses to Phone makers during the period.

Thus, it is a sale just as Apple selling a phone is a sale.

The question of market share is different, and cannot be assessed based on MS sales numbers, without making assumptions because MS does not sell phones.

Unless you wish to assume that the laws of economics have been repealed, and phone makers are buying licenses for phones that are not selling, and that have no hope of being sold, then it is safe to assume that the phones are selling at a reasonable enough rate for the phone makers to continue buying the licenses.

Good point. I had forgotten that they just sell licenses not hardware.

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply
post #30 of 86
So Microsoft sold 2,000,000 licences in the same quarter apple sold 16.5 million phones. What's a licence worth - about $25 bucks? Vs an iPhone at about $600.
post #31 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

Google sure likes to tout activation numbers.

And your point is?
post #32 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissMac2 View Post

All it is a sign of is the size of arm twisting that MS can apply to its OEMs to take high minimum order numbers with no payment for multi-month periods, perhaps even more than a year.

What evidence do you have of "arm twisting" or delayed payments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissMac2 View Post

Now that's something MS don't usually care about because their Business Model cuts the user out of the decision making process and concentrates instead on the needs of OEMs. Apple's business model in contrast is designed around making you, the user, happy and content.

The article states that WP7 generates 93% consumer satisfaction.
post #33 of 86
Satisfaction Survey:

93% are either Satisfied or Very Satisfied.

So 1% Very Satisfied and 92% Satisfied?

It does matter what the split is, strange they have not indicated what it is!!!
post #34 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

MS can't report phone sales, because they do not make phones. It would be like asking how many HDTVs does Apple sell?

MS and Apple have different business models.

However, as I said before, one would have to assume that the Phone makers are knowingly and willingly throwing money away, and decreasing their profits, if WP7 is not selling at all. The most parsimonious explanation is that the phones are selling at a respectable, if not astronomical rate, hence the phone makers continue to buy the OS for their phones.

This is a respectable start but needs to be put in context.

The 2M licenses MS sold to the manufacturers represents an upper bound on the number of WP7 phones. You then need to consider how many handset manufacturers are building WP7 phones and how many models and realize that the channel inventory must be built for each of these models. It is possible that the 2M number is really just the channel fill for all the models.

I hope that WP7 does well. Along with Kinect, it is the first sign of interesting product design from MS in years.
post #35 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

This is a respectable start but needs to be put in context.

The 2M licenses MS sold to the manufacturers represents an upper bound on the number of WP7 phones. You then need to consider how many handset manufacturers are building WP7 phones and how many models and realize that the channel inventory must be built for each of these models. It is possible that the 2M number is really just the channel fill for all the models.

I hope that WP7 does well. Along with Kinect, it is the first sign of interesting product design from MS in years.

Quite true, 2 Mil is the upper bound, and in no way do I think that they sold all of the OSs. However, they originally said they sold 1.5 mil and then recently announced 2 mil, so an additional 500K were sold over the holidays. So, apparently enough units sold to justify the additional OS purchases.
post #36 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennywse View Post

Windows shipped 2 million phones, but Apple sold 16.2 million.

These are not the same things are they?

NO. The sentence actually reads, ". . . but Apple sold 16.2 million iPhones"
post #37 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames4242 View Post

No, they'll go out to the same landfill where all those Atari 2600 ET cartridges were buried.



I've seen only one, and I live in the land of Microsoft (I used to see Zunes when I took the bus to work - my bus ran by the MSFT campus). It was owned by the husband of a Microsoft employee who was almost forced into having one. Apparently Microsoft no longer provides discounts on carrier service to employees who have iPhones (apparently Android or feature phones are okay, but iPhones are not). He hated the thing and missed his iPhone.

I saw my first Windows Phone7 (in the wild) last Friday. I asked the guy how he liked it and he said he still wasn't able to use it as a phone due to troubles with activating the device. He could however surf the web. So far, he said that likes it "okay".
post #38 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

MS can't report phone sales, because they do not make phones. It would be like asking how many HDTVs does Apple sell?

MS and Apple have different business models.

However, as I said before, one would have to assume that the Phone makers are knowingly and willingly throwing money away, and decreasing their profits, if WP7 is not selling at all. The most parsimonious explanation is that the phones are selling at a respectable, if not astronomical rate, hence the phone makers continue to buy the OS for their phones.

Your disconnect is the assumption that the OEMs have completed the transaction. These are more than likely conditional sales. You take the inventory but do not pay until a retail sale is made.
post #39 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... The shipment numbers for Windows Phone 7 are also lower that those reported by Gartner for Microsoft's own, earlier Windows Mobile 6.x platform in the third quarter of 2010, which amounted to 2.25 million units worldwide. ...

Microsoft is terrible at migrating users from old to new. They managed to transition DOS users to Windows 3.1, then to Windows 95/98. Because 3.1 and 95/98 were built on top of DOS. "Whipped cream on a road apple," as Scott McNealy used to say.

Microsoft didn't do so well migrating people to NT. Vista was a catastrophe. And now Microsoft expects deeply entrenched corporate IT users to make the leap from Windows Mobile 6.x to Windows 7? There's no easy transition. Apps must be totally re-written. Cold turkey. And that alone is enough to trigger the "wait and see" response in corporate IT. That's one reason why they're still buying Windows Mobile 6.x phones, even though the OS itself is a dead end.

The "wait and see" approach gives corporate IT plenty of time to review their options. Including iPhone / iPad, BlackBerry / PlayBook, and whatever random generic Androids have been dumped onto the market. And unfortunately for Microsoft many CIOs will switch. Why? Because transitioning to WP7 would be just as costly and difficult as transitioning to a competitors' solution. Even if Microsoft donated WP7 phones to them in an effort to buy market share.

So how did this happen? Why was it impossible to evolve WinMob into a more modern OS? Because Microsoft doesn't have a forward-looking plan. They hacked up a quick and dirty version of Windows that ran on a smaller screen, called Windows CE, and shipped it. It has been renamed several times (Pocket PC, etc.) to make it seem like Microsoft has made progress. But it has evolved precious little over the years.

And what happens when you don't have a plan? When you can't evolve your products and make them better every year? You end up like Palm. Palm did close to zero work on Palm OS, for various reasons. some of which were out of their control. I know. I had a Visor, Treo 180, Treo 600, and finally a Treo 680. Palm got leapfrogged and became so weak that HP snapped them up just for their IP. Good riddance.

Maybe it's time Microsoft spun off their mobile phone division. HP might still be looking.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply
post #40 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by atsysusa View Post

Your disconnect is the assumption that the OEMs have completed the transaction. These are more than likely conditional sales. You take the inventory but do not pay until a retail sale is made.

Again, what evidence do you have that this is the case?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Microsoft ships 2 million Windows Phone 7 handsets in holiday quarter