Sony to take on Apple with next-gen PlayStation Portable, Android game store - Page 2

Yes! That's less than 10M units per year.

So the actual number of units in use is very low.
And the number of games sold per device is also very low.

It's not been a commercial success.

C.

Apple should licence iOS as a games OS to Sony.

There, I said it.

Sorry, it has probably been neglected to mention, that there is a port for a power adaptor. So no need for batteries any longer.

Thats what I said myself.

There is far more to look into when considering this than simply overall sales numbers. For a start, 62m sales of a device which is largely single-purpose is quite incredible. It's even more impressive when you consider the single purpose is entertainment and isn't something "essential" like telephone or internet.

The latest figures I can find (for NA only) show an attach rate of around 4.1 or 4.2 games per device. If we take an average game price of say $25, that means that every PSP user has spent an average of $100 on games for their system and it completely ignores any digital sales.

Reasons why this figure may not be higher:
- A huge number of games are sold pre-owned and do not have any bearing on this figure.
- Users are very pleased with the games they have purchased and do not buy more new titles because the content they have keeps them occupied for a long time.

But really, how many iOS users have spent $100 or more on games for their device and do they buy more games because the games they have are less likely to keep them occupied for a long time?

Sony has never released any information about the number of devices "in use" so it is impossible to know anything about this.

It may have a hardware edge, however if ios is using 400 mhz. speed for a dual core setup, while sony's using 200 mhz. for a quad core, it's a wash.

Most interesting is what the price will be. Sony using Android as the framework - is very similar to when they used Palm OS - hopefully it won't end in a similar fashion.

They are Japanese. It's as difficult for them to make good software as is making a Hindu eat meat.

I mean, why do you think the iPhone is rocking in Japan, the Mythical Land of Super Shiny Phones Years Ahead of America's?

And as much as I like the PS3, the interface sucks. Sucks sucks sucks sucks.

Here's why that isn't good. It's been a disaster for Sony. The PSP was too expensive to manufacture, and Sony hoped to make money back on the Sony tax on each game sale.
With such low attach rates - the gamble didn't work. PSP barely broke even.

It was also not good for developers. PSP titles have sold in lower numbers than PS3. Even though in theory there are more PSPs in circulation. This has resulted in only a small number of titles for the platform.

So games makers are faced with high development costs, expensive revenue sharing with Sony, and a relatively small active market who buy very few titles.

I am not seeing anything in the new platform that shows that Sony has learned from this mistake.

C.

And that's why hardcores need to quit this mentality and focus on making Sony actually DO AAA titles for the Move (it has much, much more potential than Kinect for HCs) and the Playstation overall. The costs of developing huge games for a tiny, heavy screen with cramped controls simply isn't worth it. I'd say mobile gaming should and will remain mostly casual.

What the iPhone could use, though, is two shoulder buttons. That would make iPhone shooters a freaking breeze. If only Apple would allow devs to use the volume buttons...

Are you going to post any sources or just continue posting your opinion as fact?

Does he really need to put sources to show that water is wet?

Come on! This is patently obvious! Everyone knows every single console maker puts a low price on the hardware and hope to make it up in software.

DOA indeed. And, oh F**** forgot my Dead Space download on iPad completed last night and I just finished work... Ooooh can't wait. Firing it up now.

Sony should get of its ass and do something about the horrible, dated, poor-quality, aliased graphics on their aging console rather than try and chase "portable gaming" that's not even a smartphone.

Jeezus you would think with all the strengths of the PSP and SonyEricsson they could easily come up with a unified device that would destroy the iPhone. Well, it hasn't happened for 5 years and it's not going to happen anytime in the *next* 5.

BTW, it's painfully clear the iPhone, iPod touch, iPad and AppleTV is just two generations (at the very most) away from delivering PS3-quality graphics. If this isn't giving Sony nightmares they're it will when it's too late.

I agree whole-heartedly.

Can ANYONE explain why this could be expected to be more "successful" than the PSP?

How is strategy different whatsoever?

You must be forgetting UMD movies and how terribly they bombed. The PSP was billed from the start as an all around entertainment device and a premiere way to watch movies on the go, plus oh yeah it plays these awesome games.


You should ignore digital sales, given that no PSP prior to the PSPGo actually had internal storage and access to a digital store. So millions of the ones sold aren't even capable of utilizing those, they just experience shitty battery life running UMDs.


You mean every console maker besides Nintendo, who always makes money on everything they sell.


Also, looking at the device, the design appears to be basically the same except that big glaring space on the right where there should have always been a 2nd analog stick now has one. Woo

I thought this stuff was well known.

You can look on Wikipedia to compare unit sales of top-selling PSP vs. PS3 titles.
Sony's game division has been losing money for a few years
(2006,2007,2008,2009) - and those numbers are public.

Try googling "Sony game division losses"
The majority of the losses came from PS3 - but PSP did nothing to reduce that.

It's not hard to find a list of new PSP titles.
It's a very short list.

C.

Yeah, that's not going to happen. EVER. Why pay for each iOS license when you can get or use Android's ecosystem for FREE? Think about it.

Bottom line is Android will continue to grow, because it's absolutely free.

Apple will continue to sell well in the market place, but we have to accept the fact that Android is the new Microsoft for the mobile environment. We all know how that worked out for Apple.

Keep in mind I'm a rabid Apple fan, own APPL stock, and realize Apple will continue to do well as long as they continue to innovate ... but realities have to be accepted that Android is a serious threat.

Delivering the hardware capabilities won't mean jack if they can't deliver games. Actually they need to make an attempt to develop a gaming culture within Apple first, then start looking at games.

Apple's biggest attempt to enhance the gaming experience in iOS resulted in the Game Center, which is beyond a joke. They even had a few different templates to copy from and they still stuffed it up. Just the UI makes me want to bring out the Cognac and cigars!

Not to say Apple couldn't do something special. They have a bundle of cash that they could throw at other companies to do the job for them.

Which, based on past performance, is what I think needs to happen.

Mobile shouldn't be all that hard. The lower budgets and smaller teams mean all Apple would really need to do to make a start is buy up a bunch of the best iOS Indies and fund them with plenty of cash to create exclusive iOS games.

The next step would be to either buy or build a few 3D engines and license or simply give them away for iOS exclusive games.

Apple TV as a console would be much harder as the game budgets are huge in comparison to mobile (they can run into the 10's of millions for a single game). Apple would pretty much have to buy an established publisher/developer (EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Take Two etc) to compete.

In any case the Apple TV delivering PS3-quality graphics in a couple of generations wouldn't give Sony nightmares, but I'm pretty sure the announcement of the formation of Apple Game Studios on the back of the purchase of one of the major publishers would pretty much make Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony collectively shit their pants (figuratively speaking).

It's amusing to think that people really do think that Apple cares about gamers, to think otherwise is to confuse hyperbole and rhetoric with the ability to rewrite history.

Apple never has, doesn't, and never will give two hoots about gaming or gamers.

The iPhone, and IPod Touch and the iPad may well have outsold numbers of Nintendo DS and Sony PSP together, indeed the software apps themselves may be outselling both in terms of profit and units, however rephrasing this as 'Apple Products that people primarily use, to communicate with over telecommunication networks, listen to their music on, or just because they can't be bothered turning on their bulky laptop have sold more than these two products that people primarily use for gaming' - To wit, I congratulate Apple on being able to see that one number of apples is bigger than another number of oranges.

I would say that iOS gaming graphics are one generation away from what is out now on consoles. The iOS graphics are as good as ps2/xbox.

As many people will tell you graphics aren't the be all and end all, if it was the Wii would not have sold in the stupid numbers that it has done, and the DS would not be going through it's annual rehash/rename cycle

TThis is all find and good, but if Sony is expected to subsidize the cost of this hardware with $20, $30, $40 games, they will surly fail. Especially with the Android fan boys, who expect all their games to be free, knocks offs and pirated. It wont be a sustainable model for either Sony or their developers.

The PlayStation Suite could end up being a bigger story than the NGP.

I can't see how the NGP is really any different to the PSP Go, but the PlayStation Suite promises to offer a standardized gaming platform across Android devices and more importantly a "PlayStation Certified license program" which basically sounds like a hardware baseline for Android devices.

If it actually turns out as rumoured, and if it takes off, that bit of news would be huge for Android. Massive. Much much much bigger than the NGP. (However you probably noticed a few of "ifs" in that sentence)










That's a brave comment!

Mostly true, but Infinity blade is much better than anything my Xbox could achieve.

You were?

It is in one sense, but in another, it's really not. Apple has to care about gaming beyond it's current set of handheld devices, the Mac has languished in gaming exile for years, sure there have been moves in the right direction but Transgaming really isn't the end point.

Apple has a great media platform, Core Image, Core Audio, Core animation, etc, but has never seemed to be interested in supplying APIs like Direct3D, etc. to augment OpenGL.

The fact that Apple machines, by default, are typically good-spec, 64-bit by standard, ability to furnish with good resolution and plenty of RAM makes them an ideal fit for gaming, add to this Apple striking a good 'halfway house' balance between constant graphics/pereipheral upgrades and
the current 5-10yr cycle of games consoles, makes things virtually a no-brainer.

Currently, to my mind, Apple is only caring about gaming, in so much as it is a nice little earner for them on the App Store.

[QUOTE=Firefly7475;1795144]The PlayStation Suite could end up being a bigger story than the NGP.

I can't see how the NGP is really any different to the PSP Go, but the PlayStation Suite promises to offer a standardized gaming platform across Android devices and more importantly a "PlayStation Certified license program" which basically sounds like a hardware baseline for Android devices.

If it actually turns out as rumoured, and if it takes off, that bit of news would be huge for Android. Massive. Much much much bigger than the NGP. (However you probably noticed a few of "ifs" in that sentence)

Right, the biggest being that Sony isn't coming into this to not make money.

It would be a hit with the kids, but again, development costs vs paying android customers......

Wait, what?! As an owner of a PSP-3000, that's just plain wrong. The PSP had digital downloads even before the PSP-3000 came out. Although they didn't have internal storage, they've had Memory Sticks since the PSP-1000 model (how else do you save your game). I have numerous PSP-One games downloaded and installed (FF7, Resident Evil, MGS) on my PSP.

Did anyone notice this in the main article?

So we're to believe that a mobile processor is just a powerful as the much hyped, super-computer-on-a-chip, CELL processor?


DISCLAIMER: Before I get flamed as a fanboy; I have an iPhone 3GS, iPad, two Mini's, a MacBook, HP EliteBook 8540w, Xbox 360 S, PS3 and Wii in addition to the afformentioned PSP.

I doubt Sony would charge much for the certification. They would probably take a cut of games sold in the store though.

Gaming aside. A cross-manufacturer baseline hardware certification for Android devices doesn't sound like news to you?

This article is a joke, Sony is just that scared kid on the play ground teaming up with the other nerds in an attempt to fight the big dog on campus. My money is still on Apple.

...a fine pomade, but sure, we get it.

there are several metrics one can use to measure the performance of the CELL. when the processor was first conceived back in 2001 (with specifications finalised in 2005), the CELL was noteworthy for it's time.


the disclaimer is not required. you simply called out a falsehood (regarding digital downloads) and responded with facts.

And what objective criteria are you going to use to determine which are the "real" games and what are the time wasters? To me all games are "time wasters," by definition, but I still play some of them when I need to fill up some time.

Who are you to tell someone who likes to play a game that it isn't a "real" game?

Let me guess, "real games" are ones with guns, cars and/or sword fighting in them, that you play on a console right?

Thanks. Wasn't sure to the maturity level of these forums as I have been on the PSN and Xbox forums along with ZDNet and most defensive talk about a competing product usually instigates a flamewar.

This has a number of problems straight out the gate.

Firstly, this device itself. With those specs, how long is this thing going to run on battery for? I suspect a very short time indeed unless something astonishing has happened to power technology that us peons don't know about yet. The term 'control creep' seems to exactly sum up my impressions as I read about this thing. Who will buy it? Teenagers will not be able to afford it and it has zero 'cool' as a mobile phone. It's a toy phone, albeit an EXTREMELY good one (as long as you plug it in!). It must be said, if Sony's claims to have PS3 power in a handheld device are accurate, it's quite amazing.

Secondly, this thing will be far and away more powerful than any other Android smartphone. That means people developing for this PlayStation Suite thing will have to forgo the extra power of this device and develop for the lowest common denominator hardware or have settings in the app which adds another level of complexity to the programs and only helps so much. Or, developers will develop for this device separately to the other Android PlayStation Suite devices, creating another layer of fragmentation. The only solution is if this certification program they plan to run is gutsy and strict and insists on a level of power similar to this device. If they do that, less fragmentation will occur but all the devices will share an achilles heel - zero battery life.

All in all this seems like another layer of fluff on top of an already fragmented operating system. Steve Jobs once took apart a Walkman because he was fascinated with its build quality and design. This plastic toy wouldn't fascinate an aspiring future Jobs. That young man will be taking apart iPhones.

The iPhone hasn't become such a monster gaming phenomenon because it's a good gaming device per se, it's become so because it is the best mobile phone there's ever been by some distance and people already have it in their pockets by the millions AND it's capable of running meaningful, engaging games selling at previously unheard-of prices. Can Sony really match that? Can they get tens of millions of people to adopt this as their phone? Would you want to pull this out of your pocket in front of a girl at a bar? (imagine her rolling her eyes as your chances float away out the window and she silently thinks of a false number to give you lol). Can Sony get games made for $1-$10?

All that said, I have too much respect for Sony (as an 80s child) to write them off and I will certainly have a go on this thing in Dixons just to see PS3 graphics in my hand. But I won't be buying one.

Dead Space is not bad too

CELL is done. It had its time in the sun. Now its just hot and old squeezing out bad, dated, poor-quality, lowly textured aliased graphics. This will infuriate many PS fans, but I have to say Gran Turismo 5 is everything gone wrong with Sony gaming. Any recent PC racing title has better graphics, better physics, etc. I was looking at it as the one title that could tip me over to console gaming. A few minutes trying it out, no sale.

I've been saying it for a while before the next-gen PSP news. ARM dualcore + decent modern GPU and you've got a PS3 competitor. Apparently Sony thinks so too.

My inner child cries when I bash Sony, it's just so hard to see how it faded this past decade. It's not going away anytime soon, of course, because the world market is still huge and its products can still sell. But for me, personally, I can't see getting anything Sony anytime soon.

Uh, the PSP has sold about half as many units as the DS - definitely not a failure in terms of sales.

I can't speak to whether it has been a huge moneymaker for Sony, but it has dozens of fantastic games that put most iOS games to shame. They also cost $30 rather than 99 cents, but sometimes you get what you pay for!

I own and enjoy games on all three platforms but the PSP is a beautiful system that remains my favorite gaming handheld. It has aged so well, it's hard to believe that it came out in 2005.

Quality matters. If you have a PSP, you should strongly consider some of the great games that came out this past year including Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker, Ys Seven, Persona 3 Portable, God of War: Ghost Of Sparta, Valkyria Chronicles II. Unlike the DS (which I also like quite a bit), the PSP gives you a console-class experience on a handheld. It also has those "buttons" which the iPhone so annoyingly lacks...

As much as I like Zelda, Mario, Prof. Layton, etc. on the DS, or Chaos Rings and Carcassonne on the iPad, there's no way I'd give up my PSP!

Now let's see about this PSP2/NGP: Dual touchpads? 5 inch display with iPhone 4-ish pixel count? Two real analog sticks? Cellular as well as WiFi? Sony exclusives like Uncharted, LittleBigPlanet, Resistance, Ratchet & Clank, Gran Turismo and God of War, not to mention everything on PSN? Sign me up!

The PSP2 will also be a success in Japan as long as they come out with Monster Hunter.

Erm..... the NGP isn't a phone, it may have 3G, cameras and a microphone....and there's nothing that confirms categorically that the NGP's OS will be Android. The thing with 'control creep' is that's all well and good in a phone, but as I stated, it's not a phone, it's designed with mobile gaming in my mind.

The Playstation Suite is an Android app

If Sony lost money or broke even, then it's a failure in business terms.

But that's not to say it's not an enjoyable product...

Like I say, the NGP will probably offer the best mobile gaming experience of any device. But without a big change in the business model, I don't think that is enough to secure success. The underlying problems which caused the PSP to perform poorly, are unchanged.

Back in 2005, the Playstation brand was seen as bulletproof. Now not so much. If anything, the games industry is less tolerant of platforms which don't provide a secure way of making money.

C.

Just been playing Dead Space a bit on my iPad. The fact that we are seeing triple-A franchises (franchises, obviously not the console ports themselves yet) on iPhone and iPad is something I didn't really expect in 2010 or even early 2011.