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Apple hit with class-action suit after girl drops, breaks iPhone 4's glass - Page 4

post #121 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jingo View Post

Only in America could someone sue another party for a mistake they made and get loads of dosh for it. Reminds me of the person who sued McDonalds because of coffee being hot and won - and countless other such stories. The guy should be ashamed of himself.

That was a little different... some food services industries have long used super-hot water for their coffee because it allows them to use less coffee. There is no reason to give someone water that is next to boiling...
post #122 of 303
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post #123 of 303
It seems reasonable to me that users will drop their smartphones, but it also seems reasonable that damage as a result this misuse of the product should be the user's responsibility - unless said product is marketed as or guaranteed to be "shockproof". In my experience with shockproof/waterproof digital still cameras from Panasonic, Pentax and Olympus, the camera is warrantied against damage during normal use. If you drop it from ten feet, it gets obliterated and it was only rated for five feet then that's your problem. It seems to me if a product doesn't have such a shockproof rating, the owner should assume that they're damn lucky if it doesn't break, and if it does they shouldn't fly into a litigious rage at the manufacturer. Maybe that's just because I'm Canadian?

I'll vouch for the Roots Tuff Skin. I bought my 3G on launch day and it had a few mishaps that resulted in a couple cracks by the lock/headphone jack so I bought the Roots case and it's been through hell without another mark. I had the phone on my lap one day and it fell out of the car and went unnoticed when I got out. I came back to the car, drove away and noticed the phone was missing. A store owner saw me drive over the phone with my Buick when I backed out. There were dusty tire marks on the back of the case when I recovered it later. Still no problems over two years later.
post #124 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by reidster View Post

It seems reasonable to me that users will drop their smartphones, but it also seems reasonable that damage as a result this misuse of the product should be the user's responsibility - unless said product is marketed as or guaranteed to be "shockproof". In my experience with shockproof/waterproof digital still cameras from Panasonic, Pentax and Olympus, the camera is warrantied against damage during normal use. If you drop it from ten feet, it gets obliterated and it was only rated for five feet then that's your problem. It seems to me if a product doesn't have such a shockproof rating, the owner should assume that they're damn lucky if it doesn't break, and if it does they shouldn't fly into a litigious rage at the manufacturer. Maybe that's just because I'm Canadian?

No! You are just sensible.
post #125 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And as has been said, if I drop a helicopter, the windshield will shatter. Silence this foolishness.

Ummm actually no, all aircraft are drop tested to ensure they can 'withstand' hard(ie not normal) landings. And no, the wind shields do not break(from that defined level).

I'm willing to bet Apple does the same. Unfortunately glass has certain critical points. Struck just right... Ka-bleweee(technical term). When iPhone 4 first came out there was a few articles about this... Or was it the ipad?
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post #126 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by reidster View Post

It seems reasonable to me that users will drop their smartphones, but it also seems reasonable that damage as a result this misuse of the product should be the user's responsibility...

The only thing from Apple that seems unreasonable to me is that they sell cases for the iPhone and iPad yet dont make any docking stations that work with these cases. The iPhone isnt so bad to take on and off to dock (though still a pointless maneuver for a just works company), but the iPad is a major chore to get in and out of the case every time you want to use the docks.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #127 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgspb View Post

Being that this is taking place in Cali, he will more than likely win. California is on a mission to eliminate all possible self responsibility. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault.

Classic FUD(and I'm being polite)
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post #128 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

What a way to save your own hide. Proclaim Starbucks is inferior based upon sound observations of your own opinion.

Cos that's what you do on an internet forum. You know, express your opinion and all.
post #129 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

Actually you are making a lot of assumptions based on the words of a nut job out to make a buck. You say it is "quite clear" it is not more durable than the screen on the iPhone 3. Clear to who? Not to me, or any other reasonable person on the planet.

What is reasonable? What did she drop it on? How was it dropped? Was it thrown at the ground? I dropped a plastic blackberry on concrete from 4 feet and the case cracked and I never imagined suing anyone. Is 4 feet too high and 3 feet to low? Does he have any non conflicted witnesses to the "accident"?

I am not making any assumptions; everyone else here is. You are all assuming negligence, of which there is no stated evidence. 3 feet is hip height for the average person, it's not some arbitrary number plucked out the air. I'm not saying I agree with this person suing. I actually don't. But I do agree that he has some valid points and you have to ask why Apple mentioned the new durability of the glass used in the iPhone 4 during its launch. It did so to give an impression. The figures quoted in this very article show that the iPhone 4 is more likely to suffer screen damage. Don't be so quick to anger and read more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

I'll agree with you when you show me where Apple has stated that the iPhone would survive a drop from 3 feet.

Yes, Apple made marketing claims which you (and this person suing) interpreted to mean something which they do not. They are technical claims that I bet can be backed up both scientifically (in the hardness case) and verifying the type of glass used (in the helicopter glass claim).

I don't see this suit going very far.

Apple didn't state the screen would survive a drop from 3 feet, but my toaster doesn't say it will survive breadcrumbs falling into the bottom; I just expect it to because that is a reasonable assumption based on the nature of the product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habañero View Post

Where the F--- do you get off being all logical and reasonable???
Take your fair-mindedness over to MacRumors. This is AppleInsider; when Apple is slighted, you circle the wagons and blast away.

Get with the program!

Thank you for restoring my faith in the sense of humour of this site's commenters!!
post #130 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

Cos that's what you do on an internet forum. You know, express your opinion and all.

Shocking. I'm shocked to find opinions opined here. Just shocking!

In fairnest Miss Manners suggest using as humble language as possible such as IMO when not referencing factual information. But that's just my opinion... D'oh!
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post #131 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

Actually your grasp of the facts is where the ignorance rests.
The woman you refer to had to have several surgeries just to recuperate from the severe third degree burns she suffered. The reason she won a large award (although it was reduced by an "activist judge" as "excessive," so it didn't even cover her medical expenses) was for punitive damages. Many people (scores, hundreds) had been burned in exactly the same way she was (cheap, flimsy cups not made safe for hot liquids that would fall apart in the hand.) and McDonalds had repeatedly ignored the problem, for years. They also repeatedly ignored well established guidelines for safe serving temperatures for coffee (even after previous law suit required them to change their practices.)
Today when you enjoy a hot coffee in a sturdy cup with a tight fitting lid and a sleeve you take it for granted that a paper cup of coffee was always like it is now. Coffee to go used to come in what amounts to wimpy little dixie cup like you sometimes see at water coolers and it was generally much cooler. You should thank her ever time you enjoy a good, hot coffee, and don't get burned.
[I see now I should have written faster, Manhattanlad.]


Bottom, She dumped it in her own lap, appeals Judge got it right!
post #132 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecphorizer View Post

As an American, I totally agree with your first sentence. Civil litigation has been the name of the game for lawyers trying to pay back their student loans for years.

However, and this observation is subject to scrutiny, the old lady in the McD case actually was quite badly scalded when the lid of her coffee popped open at the drivethru window. It turns out that McD pinches every penny and in this case, passes steam & water (over 212°) through coffee grounds since it is well known that the hotter the water & vapor, the less coffee is needed to get roughly the same case. That coffee was not what you get from a coffee urn at Denny's (or at home) and she deserved something more than a simply "sorry 'bout that, lady" from the drivethru drone.

He should of told her to move forward so the next customers coffee wouldn't get cold waiting on the counter like it usually does, she dumped it in her own lap, the appeals Judge called it right, under the 20 grand she wanted, the rest was eaten by the lawyers fees, maybe they felt sorry for her and didn't charge her.... Lol, yeah right.
post #133 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

I am not making any assumptions; everyone else here is. You are all assuming negligence, of which there is no stated evidence. 3 feet is hip height for the average person, it's not some arbitrary number plucked out the air. I'm not saying I agree with this person suing. I actually don't. But I do agree that he has some valid points and you have to ask why Apple mentioned the new durability of the glass used in the iPhone 4 during its launch. It did so to give an impression. The figures quoted in this very article show that the iPhone 4 is more likely to suffer screen damage. Don't be so quick to anger and read more.

The durability was most likely mentioned to contrast the likelihood of scratching on the iPhone 4 with the previous iPhones. At least, that is how I read it.

The figures quoted also noted this:
Quote:
As such, SquareTrade projected the handset would have the highest accidental damage rate after 12 months of all smartphones at roughly 13.8 percent, possibly due to its two sides of glass.

The actual report mentions that the iPhone 4′s glass breaks 82% more than the iPhone 3GSs glass. Since the iPhone 4 has twice the surface area of glass, I could argue that the glass may perform better than what was used on the iPhone 3GS. You can certainly argue that the all-glass design is more susceptible but people should factor that in when they make yheir purchase.

Quote:
Apple didn't state the screen would survive a drop from 3 feet, but my toaster doesn't say it will survive breadcrumbs falling into the bottom; I just expect it to because that is a reasonable assumption based on the nature of the product.

As I mentioned above, in over 15 years of cell phone use, I've dropped my phone once. I don't find it a reasonable assumption at all for people who take care of their things but I admit that is my own bias.
post #134 of 303
Wow, glass breaks after some idiot drops it? Who would have ever imagined that?

This lawsuit is idiotic, and it has little to do with Apple. The lawsuit would be equally as idiotic, if the phone in question was a Nokia, Samsung or Motorola instead of an iPhone. I'd wager that it is far more likely that the only defective thing here is the inferior genes of that father, who passed them on to his unfortunate children.

Somebody should start a class action lawsuit against people who start frivolous class action lawsuits.
post #135 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phizz View Post

He should sue whoever was responsible for surfacing the hard ground that his daughter dropped it on too.

And he should sue his daughter for carelessness.

And he should sue his wife for the bad genes which gave his daughter such weak grip.

And he should sue the government for providing an inadequate education system which allowed him to grow up to be such a moron.

And he should sue his parents for giving birth to him.
post #136 of 303
I slamed my phone in the car door by accident, my phone has gorilla glass, but it isn't the manufacturer's fault, its my own damn fault.

True the glass in the iPhone 4 maybe harder, but only from the front/back as it is designed. That doesn't mean you can drop it any ol which way. You drop it the right way, it'll still shatter.

Sometimes advertising something is stronger is a bad idea. You make it idiot proof, i'll find you a better idiot.
post #137 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by idealtoy View Post

This is Apple. The company who fights off lawsuits from the big boys. I doubt seriously that this will go anywhere. Umm, snowballs chance...

Actually, most class action lawsuits do get somewhere. The only problem is that only the lawyers make money. (Check out the class action lawsuits over stock prices. At best, you get back 7 cents a share. The lawyers get $300 million.) It's basically extortion. My bet is that Apple settles this.

While I do think this guy is a jerk, I don't necessarily think Apple is totally in the right here. Mobile phones do get dropped a lot. Apple does sometimes concentrate more on the look than on the practicality of their products. On the other hand, I own a number of devices (like cameras) that could easily be dropped, but if I drop my camera, there is definitely also going to be damage. Yet no one thinks of suing the camera company.

One could also make the argument that a car should survive a 25 mph hit with absolutely no body damage (while still protecting the passengers.) But they don't. No one is suing them either (at least not for that.)
post #138 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post

He should of told her to move forward so the next customers coffee wouldn't get cold waiting on the counter like it usually does, she dumped it in her own lap, the appeals Judge called it right, under the 20 grand she wanted, the rest was eaten by the lawyers fees, maybe they felt sorry for her and didn't charge her.... Lol, yeah right.

While I understand your point of view, IMO it simply ignores the real world, people make stupid mistakes. So from coffee temperatures to jumbo airliners, rules and regulations are put in place to mitigate stupid things people do. Not saying there needs to be cell phone drop regulations, but some level of design against stupid mistakes(and in cell phones and coffee cups that occur some what frequently) 'might' be expected from some.
For example, should hot food service be 'expected' to ward of bacteria and buyer beware if not hot enough? Or is it more practical to set food temp standards that are easiably measured etc. Just food for thought/discussion(pun intended).
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post #139 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbelievably Mac View Post

He doesn't deserve to own an apple product!

Apple should countersue and include an injunction to prohibit him (and his butterfingered daughter) from ever owning another apple product or ever purchasing something from the iTunes store.

Watch his daughter whine over the thought of showing off her new Zune to her friends, or trying to 'root' for an app with an android phone.
post #140 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Actually, most class action lawsuits do get somewhere. The only problem is that only the lawyers make money. (Check out the class action lawsuits over stock prices. At best, you get back 7 cents a share. The lawyers get $300 million.) It's basically extortion. My bet is that Apple settles this.

While I do think this guy is a jerk, I don't necessarily think Apple is totally in the right here. Mobile phones do get dropped a lot. Apple does sometimes concentrate more on the look than on the practicality of their products. On the other hand, I own a number of devices (like cameras) that could easily be dropped, but if I drop my camera, there is definitely also going to be damage. Yet no one thinks of suing the camera company.

One could also make the argument that a car should survive a 25 mph hit with absolutely no body damage (while still protecting the passengers.) But they don't. No one is suing them either (at least not for that.)

Yup, that about sums it up. I personally would not sue, but I'd be darn sure everyone I knew what I thought about the product. And if it's a widespread issue, that can be more than enough to get the offending party to act. Example in the extreme is the Toyota self acceleration issue
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post #141 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

"20 times stiffer and 30 times harder than plastic," and is "ultradurable" having been made from the same material as the "glass used in helicopters and high-speed trains."

If Apple actually claims this, then they are in trouble.

This is true but for the front glass only. Also a 68% higher failure rate is actually lower than there previous phone. If you drop your phone on the back side of the 3GS there's no glass there only plastic, so no glass breaks. With the iPhone 4 having glass on two sides you would expect the failure rate to be 100% higher but it's not because there using Gorilla glass on the front side.
post #142 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

We need a task-force to ensure that this man does not breed again.

Castration would probably work... But obviously that's a bit late.
OMG here we go again...
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OMG here we go again...
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post #143 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecphorizer View Post

They have. Ever see all the 6pt disclaimers at the bottom of the screen of drugs (and other things that aren't moron-proof)? I actually go in the opposite direction and think that all that warning stuff is a bunch of BS. We are human beings - intelligent reasoning human beings. We do not need to blame everyone else for our own carelessness and stupidity. And why is this suit-mania only in the US? Are we less intelligent than citizens of other countries? (please don't come across with a catty answer; you know what I mean!)

I once bought a dremel tool and in the instructions it said not to do any dental work with it. How would they know to put that in?

Problem today is there are more students in law schools than engineering schools.
post #144 of 303
I think we sould have a law like Costa Rica, if you sue some one and lose you have to pay all expences of the winning party as well as your own. I think that would put a stop to the bullshit lawsuits like this one.
post #145 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by eacumm View Post

I think we sould have a law like Costa Rica, if you sue some one and lose you have to pay all expences of the winning party as well as your own. I think that would put a stop to the bullshit lawsuits like this one.

Courts in the US already award costs to the winners of lawsuits. It's a great way to dissuade people without a lot of money from filing lawsuits.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #146 of 303
Is his other daughter the one that fell into a fountain at the shopping mall?

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     197619842013  

     Where were you when the hammer flew?  

 

MacBook Pro Retina, 13", 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD

iPhone 5 • iPad 4 • CR48 Chromebook • ThinkPad X220

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post #147 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by mretondo View Post

This is true but for the front glass only. Also a 68% higher failure rate is actually lower than there previous phone. If you drop your phone on the back side of the 3GS there's no glass there only plastic, so no glass breaks. With the iPhone 4 having glass on two sides you would expect the failure rate to be 100% higher but it's not because there using Gorilla glass on the front side.

But it's still one phone, regardless or whether it has one or two pieces of glass.
post #148 of 303
The phone is made of 2 pieces of glass. The word glass should caution you. The term Guerilla Glass implies stronger, not invincible glass. Aircraft glass breaks, bullet proof glass breaks, your MacBook glass breaks.
Why on earth would a phone with two glass panels make someone think it is excluded from the breaking phenomenon.
post #149 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabberattack View Post

When one is lazy and won't put the cup into the cupholder in the car when adding the cream and is holding it between the legs, then that person deserves being burned. Another candidate for a "moron of the century".

Really, who is too lazy to put something in a cup holder? Get real.
Not many cars had cup holders in 1994.
The woman had to have skin grafts.
The court found her partially responsible.
If it was a child, would you feel the same way?
At what age should someone know better?

You rival the Dalai Lama with your compassion and understanding.
post #150 of 303
I'll bet any amount of money this maroon gets (at minimum) 1,000 phone calls tomorrow calling him your choice of obscenities.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #151 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgspb View Post

Being that this is taking place in Cali, he will more than likely win.

What's Colombia got to do with it?
post #152 of 303
My daughter dropped my coffee pot and it broke. I blame Black & Decker. They knew the coffee pot was made of glass and would shatter if dropped. Class action.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #153 of 303
If Dumb LeBuhn (Ops ... I meant Don) was smart enough to get a OtterBox Defender Case for his iPhone 4 before handing it over to his daughter, his phone may still work. Lawyer should check if Mr. LeBunh had filed other insane law suits before. Also, he should be only be allowed to use the 1st generation cell phone. Those won't break easily.
post #154 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitWrangler View Post

As to the statistic that says that iphone 4's have a higher incidence of being damaged than the 3GS

that detail is from a company that markets in insurance for damage. It comes from their claim rates. Nothing is said about how many policies they have that never have a claim, or how their policies stack up against total units.

That context is very important
post #155 of 303
He should also sue his daughter for taking his personal property.
post #156 of 303
I must say I have never been more impressed with the stability of a phone. I was clearing my attic and while swinging out from above the doorway I launched my iphone4 13 feet down to a congrete garage floor. It cracked but it was one clean cut and it can barely be seen. 13feet to concrete! That has to say something for the so called hellicopter glass. I myself am impressed. Thanks apple. On a downside... It will cost me just as much as I bought the phone to replace the front glass.
post #157 of 303
Since when does 'normal use' include dropping it?
post #158 of 303
He is completely right! The iPhone 4 is build out of weak breakable glass and either Apple should replace broken glass cases for free or lose its license to sell. As simple as that!

I really like my iPhone 4 but the antenna and the glass are faulty designs! Can't wait to sell it to someone off of ebay once the iPhone 5 gets out.. if i don't break the damn thing by then!
post #159 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gromit View Post

I dropped my iPhone and it I was annoyed, but with myself.

Can't see this lawsuit winning. It is glass, it is fragile. If you are a careless bu$$er get a case.

I have always had a silicone case on all my iphones so it wouldn get scratches and of the glasscreen (it helped to prevent hard hits on the edges of the glass). It also helps to bumper the hit if it ever falls. Now a mobile phone is probably going to fall on the floor sometimes in its lifetime eventhou you would be very carefull.

Ofcourse it doesnt help if you add glass to the backside aswell. On iphone 3g/3gs there still was a more than 50% chance that it would land on the side or backside and nothing would happen.

iphone4s glass edges are over the body (compared to 3g/3gs the glass is sunk into the body) so that the body will not help at all if something hits the edge of the glass. As we know this is the most vulnerable place on glass. No matter how much you can bend the glass when it gets hit on the side with a sharp hard object and there is no absorbatin of power glass WILL break. Now this is really why i thought that apple this specific time chose design over functionality. I have a iphone 4 but i wouldnt dare to use it without a silicone case. I have 2 small kids aswell so its not me allways using it. I was shocked when the iphone pictures were leaked out about the design. I thought that it couldnt be the real thing because it would be stupid to build it like that.

If you think about the most obvious scenario dropping it on the floor:

Iphone 3g/3gs is plastic on the edges/backsise with metal bezel around the screen and some foam between the bezel and glass. The glass doesnt get out of the phone body so the glass cant "hit" the ground when the phone falls on a flat surface.

iphone4: glass on both sides and the edges are visible so that if you dont want the glass to hit the ground is nearly impossible! the phone has to drop almost straight on its side not more that 15-20 degreece angle for the metal body to take the impact. Because the glass is flat almost always will the impact be on the glass edge. Worst of course if it falls on an corner edge, so all the force will come in a single spot.

That means the new design the glass will take 90% of the beating whilst the old design the glass would take maybe 1% beating on dropping on a FLAT surface. THIS is a _HUGE_
difference!!!!!! Somebody good at math should count how big the chance/probability is that the glass will take the hit with the new design depending that it could fall anyway on a flat surface an at what probability the metal will take the impact. I think 90% is somewhere rather close anyways.

Now I only dropped my iphone 3G once myself but that wasnt on a flat surface and the phone fell on its glass and a stone hit the corner of the home buttton cracking the glass. Now it this would have been on the pavement or a building floor nothing would have happened. Even if the stone would have hti someplace in the middle of the glass it probably wouldnt have cracked. But it hit the corner of the hole for the button...CRACK..
hopefully for my I didnt have to change the glass because the crack didnt go over the screen and it was only estetical=barely noticeble.
post #160 of 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunny7904 View Post

If Dumb LeBuhn (Ops ... I meant Don) was smart enough to get a OtterBox Defender Case for his iPhone 4 before handing it over to his daughter, his phone may still work. Lawyer should check if Mr. LeBunh had filed other insane law suits before. Also, he should be only be allowed to use the 1st generation cell phone. Those won't break easily.

Perhaps the real question is why any manufacturer would ship a phone whichalmost *requires* a third party case just to get through the day? It's a mobile phone for pete's sake. Mobile. Gets moved around. Is more likely than, say, a coffee pot, to be dropped or mishandled.
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