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Apple hit with class-action suit after girl drops, breaks iPhone 4's glass - Page 6

post #201 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunyabinez View Post

I love the way that my iPhone looks without a case. But I noticed that quite often it would slip off of things that I set it on. I have a glass desk and apparently it isn't perfectly level. I put my iPhone in the middle of the desk turn around to do something and plop. It lands on the carpet. I have seen this same thing on many surfaces. So, now it's in a case.

Your entire post I think has the most relevant analogy I've seen on this argument so far.

From Apple's Web Site
Quote:
All the breakthrough technology in iPhone 4 is situated between two glossy panels of aluminosilicate glass — the same type of glass used in the windshields of helicopters and high-speed trains. Chemically strengthened to be 20 times stiffer and 30 times harder than plastic, the glass is ultradurable and more scratch resistant than ever. It’s also recyclable.

Mind you, no where in here does it say that the glass will not break. It does not say what height the device has been tested in. It just says it is more durable. The lines of "glass used in windshields.. Strengthened to be 30 times harder..." are all adverting jargon aimed at making you feel like you are purchasing something more durable. While all this I assume to be true, doesn't mean the device is indestructible.

I have had my iPod touch (2G) drop 3 feet to the carpet. Not a problem. My Palm Pre, same distance to carpet, not a problem. iPod touch, 6 inches face down onto gravel: got scratched. Palm Pre screen (made of plastic), scratched from normal use. I won't sue Apple or Palm because the screen got scratched. These things happen. Drop your phone, it might break, no matter what.

Lesson learned for the man and his daughter: Buy a case for your iPhone. Remember, this is Apple: Form is before Function in many cases. (But to the man who is suing, I do feel for you. It is very discouraging that a simple drop can ruin a device so completely.)
However, it would be nice if Apple included a case for their product. I have seen and have friends who's iPhone 4s have chips in the glass because there is no bevel.
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post #202 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabberattack View Post

What a retard! I can't believe America is no.1 economy while it looks dumbies like this guy are multiplying here.

My house window glass broke after my neighbour's kid accidently kicked the ball in it. I am gonna class action sue window maker because when I had the old window it did not break after I kicked the ball few yeara ago.

What a moron, OMG.

I have an iPhone 4 and I love it. But, you should be honest, and this guy has a point. This phone is supposed to be capable of falling and not breaking, it's one of the salespoints. Gorilla glass, Combat helicopters and stuff, you remember? If that glass "designed to take a rocket and not break" can be killed by a little girl, MAYBE it has a little issue.

Mine is in a case

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

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post #203 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:07am
Did the guy read somewhere that the materials used to make the phone's front and back panels were indestructible? Just because it's made better and harder doesn't mean you can go around dropping it on cocrete and tile surfaces without consequences.
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post #204 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

According to the SCAA, the optimal water temperature for coffee is 92 - 96C (197.6 - 204.8F) for 90% of the contact time.

who cares? The suit wasn't about good tasting coffee. She didn't sue because she believed some claim that McDonalds has awesome tasting coffee but in truth it tastes like crap.

She sued because throat possibly awesome tasting coffee was hot enough to scald human flesh.

It takes less than five seconds for a mid aged adult to have third degree burns from water temps of 150F or higher. Children and the elderly (such as the lady suing) have more fragile skin and it can taken as little as half a second.

McDonalds was brewing and keeping their coffee well above 150. Even if she had not spilled it, she could have severely burned her mouth and esophagus just drinking it. Making how great it tastes a moot point because she likely wouldn't be drinking or eating anything for a while

Fact is that nothing anyone says can justify and restaurant from knowingly serving a drink that is hazardous to consume normally, much less if you spill it on yourself. There were something like 700 other claims over McDonalds coffee temps, including a case with a rep from McDonalds basically saying, under oath, he knew the coffee was too hot but didn't care about the risks.
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post #205 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

210F is simply way too hot for any method of brewing or type of brewer, and it's also way beyond the SCAA's recommendations. (Which are a little misleading, anyway, since they don't account for differences inherent in brewing methods. For example, most people prefer to use a water temperature considerably below the SCAA's recommendations when using an AeroPress.)

Again we are talking about commercial brewing equipment not home brewing. The ideal temperature has more to do with the size of the grind and the type of grinder as well as the make up of soluble acids etc. The recommended temperatures are an average but can be adjusted to suit a given circumstance. The content of the original poster's comments was to point out that coffee served in restaurants is can be hot. The one additional point I would like to make as a tip for people buying or serving coffee is this: Never let the server hand you a cup of hot coffee. Make them put it on the counter and then pick it up. You never know how clumsy or distracted the other person might be and that hand to hand exchange is where most coffee spill accidents happen.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #206 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That is why he explained the post brew chamber temps. Large commercial brewers are using pounds of coffee per brew. The ground coffee is at room temperature so as soon as the water hits the coffee it drops several degrees because it is slowly spraying into the chamber.

Quote:
If you happen to get a cup that has been poured from a just brewed pot then 190 or so is what the temp will be. McDonald's doesn't tell the franchisee how hot to hold coffee at, the local board of health does and the rules vary by location. Of the locations/standards I have seen it appears that somewhere between 130-140 is the desired temp.

190F is also way too hot for most people to drink, and kept at that temperature, the flavor will degrade rapidly. And 130-140 will actually seem tepid to most people.
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post #207 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Again we are talking about commercial brewing equipment not home brewing. The ideal temperature has more to do with the size of the grind and the type of grinder as well as the make up of soluble acids etc. The recommended temperatures are an average but can be adjusted to suit a given circumstance. The content of the original poster's comments was to point out that coffee served in restaurants is can be hot. The one additional point I would like to make as a tip for people buying or serving coffee is this: Never let the server hand you a cup of hot coffee. Make them put it on the counter and then pick it up. You never know how clumsy or distracted the other person might be and that hand to hand exchange is where most coffee spill accidents happen.

1. I don't think the OPs numbers line up at all with the SCAA recommendations.

2. The SCAA recommendations are pretty much useless due to the factors outline above by you, and differences in brewing methods. And, there are huge differences in "commercial brewing equipment". So exactly what equipment is it that they are referring to, large urn brewers? Single pot brewers? Airpot brewers? Something else? I really wouldn't pay that much attention to the SCAA, most of their commercial members serve horrible coffee.
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post #208 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

190F is also way too hot for most people to drink, and kept at that temperature, the flavor will degrade rapidly. And 130-140 will actually seem tepid to most people.

Again I am simply refuting your assertion that the original poster did not know what he was talking about. I believe he is in the coffee business based on his remarks. Most people in the US put cold milk into their coffee so 160 F is about as low as you would want to keep it. His remarks about 130 F were not recommendations but instead pointing out how much discrepancy there is in local health department requirements.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #209 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

1. I don't think the OPs numbers line up at all with the SCAA recommendations.

2. The SCAA recommendations are pretty much useless due to the factors outline above by you, and differences in brewing methods. And, there are huge differences in "commercial brewing equipment". So exactly what equipment is it that they are referring to, large urn brewers? Single pot brewers? Airpot brewers? Something else? I really wouldn't pay that much attention to the SCAA, most of their commercial members serve horrible coffee.

You are misinformed.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #210 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:24am
Wow I can't believe how intolerant people using this forum are and how quick they are to pass judgement. Are you really that blinded by your devotion to all things Apple that you can't see any merit in this guy's complaint. Phones are meant to be highly portable and should be durable. Considering how much time a phone is in our hands on on our person it would stand to reason that there is a greater chance of a phone being dropped. The design of the IP4 is really great however the choice of glass is as a backing material is flawed. I have seen tons of shattered screens at the Apple Store and most of the time they have come from drops of less than a few feet. A fall from your hand to the granite countertop can kill a phone if it hits at the right angle.

Not to drone on but phones drop, they fall out of pockets, slip out of jackets etc. they shouldn't be rendered useless because you have a shattered screen. No other phones did this in the past. I know all you guys out there that have been writing your witty little comments will jump all over this because you are obviously so perfect that you have never dropped anything in your life. But think about it, is a phone supposed to be a delicate device that can't withstand any abuse?
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post #211 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originaldub View Post

No other phones did this in the past.

No other phone was touchscreen "in the past".

Quote:
...obviously so perfect that you have never dropped anything in your life...

Sure, just not something as important as my phone.

Quote:
But think about it, is a phone supposed to be a delicate device that can't withstand any abuse?

Is something as crucial as a connection to the outside world supposed to be treated like a basketball?
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post #212 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

You are misinformed.

About what, that the coffee from most commercial SCAA members sucks? It does.

Otherwise, I think you're just disagreeing for the sake of doing so. You rattled off a whole list of variables that affect coffee brewing, and there are even more factors, yet your sticking to the SCAA's "one temp fits all" strategy, and trying to claim that the OPs numbers are from the SCAA when they clearly are not.

Flash is dead, get over it.
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post #213 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

About what, that the coffee from most commercial SCAA members sucks? It does.

That is your opinion, however the argument is not how good someone's coffee is. It is about how hot it is. There are many factors involved with the quality of coffee - origin, storage, roasting, age, brewing, etc. The commercial coffee business is usually a balance of those factors. You, claiming to be an expert in coffee is a little amusing to me, since you clearly have little to no training in actual coffee business.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #214 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:39am
In States with no helmet laws, many people ride their motorcycles with their heads left unprotected. In most States, however, the overall societal cost of a no-helmet-accident is recognized, and helmets are required. With the iPhone, whether cases came with them or not, many people would choose not to use them. (If cases came with the phone, many of those simply would be wasted.) That's the owner's right. Their choice doesn't impose the kind of cost on society that exists in the helmet scenario, and so we don't have laws requiring people to use cases on their phones.

To my way of thinking, it makes perfect sense to protect my iPhone. I buy a phone. I buy a case. You, on the other hand, may not want to use a case, so you buy just a phone. If you drop it, you're at greater risk of damaging your phone than I am.

And that, it seems to me, is exactly how things on Planet Apple should be.
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post #215 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

I have an iPhone 4 and I love it. But, you should be honest, and this guy has a point. This phone is supposed to be capable of falling and not breaking, it's one of the salespoints. Gorilla glass, Combat helicopters and stuff, you remember? If that glass "designed to take a rocket and not break" can be killed by a little girl, MAYBE it has a little issue.

Where did Apple claim that you could drop it without damaging it?

What Apple said is that the glass is stronger than plastic - and it is. So what LEGAL BASIS is there for suing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Originaldub View Post

Wow I can't believe how intolerant people using this forum are and how quick they are to pass judgement. Are you really that blinded by your devotion to all things Apple that you can't see any merit in this guy's complaint. Phones are meant to be highly portable and should be durable. Considering how much time a phone is in our hands on on our person it would stand to reason that there is a greater chance of a phone being dropped. The design of the IP4 is really great however the choice of glass is as a backing material is flawed. I have seen tons of shattered screens at the Apple Store and most of the time they have come from drops of less than a few feet. A fall from your hand to the granite countertop can kill a phone if it hits at the right angle.

Not to drone on but phones drop, they fall out of pockets, slip out of jackets etc. they shouldn't be rendered useless because you have a shattered screen. No other phones did this in the past. I know all you guys out there that have been writing your witty little comments will jump all over this because you are obviously so perfect that you have never dropped anything in your life. But think about it, is a phone supposed to be a delicate device that can't withstand any abuse?

What's your point? The iPhone IS durable. That's not the same as indestructible. You seem to have the two concepts confused.

If you can show me where Apple advertised that you could drop the phone on a hard surface without damage, you might have a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Hey I spilled a beer all over my iMac's keyboard and now some of the keys don't work.

I think I'll sue Apple.

Not at all. Sue the company that makes the beer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissMac2 View Post

What I find so sad about this thread is the banal "Apple is perfect" meme that runs through it blindly. I dropped my iPhone 3G when getting into a taxi, it dropped about a foot but has a nasty scratch on the plastic back now. But nothing shattered because plastic absorbs shocks. If it had been 20 times harder, it would probably have shattered too. Hard things have no 'give' in them.

I'm waiting for Apple to bring out iPhone 5 (without a glass back) before upgrading because I have dropped every phone I ever bought and making a phone out of glass is just plain asking for trouble. But I won't sue anybody because of it though! Not buying a device where 1 in 7 break is good enough sense to me.

There's this thing called a 'case'.

If you don't want a glass phone, no one is making you buy one. But stop whining when you finally learn that glass breaks.
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post #216 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:42am
This country needs some serious tort reform starting with "looser pays"
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post #217 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

If Apple actually claims this, then they are in trouble.

The only thing in trouble is the survivability of our society in the face of rampant stupidity!
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post #218 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

... You, claiming to be an expert in coffee is a little amusing to me, since you clearly have little to no training in actual coffee business.

You are incorrect. However, I haven't claimed to be an "expert", just pointed out that the OPs numbers were nonsense, which they are, and not at all in line with the SCAA's recommendations, despite your assertions that they were. And the SCAA's recommendations are not, in my opinion, worth much, except perhaps as a starting point. But, feel free to brew your coffee at 210F, if you like.
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post #219 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originaldub View Post

Phones are meant to be highly portable and should be durable. Considering how much time a phone is in our hands on on our person it would stand to reason that there is a greater chance of a phone being dropped. The design of the IP4 is really great however the choice of glass is as a backing material is flawed.

It's flawed because people are klutzes?

I have never dropped an iPod, current or previous phones I have ever owned in such a way that they could have broken. Yup, accidents can happen but they are just that - accidents, not flawed designs!

If you are so careless in the handling of your equipment that you are dropping things or having them slide off of tables and some of the other amazing stuff I have seen in this thread then go to a site like squaretrade.com and get a replacement warranty.

Or don't buy an iPhone.

The iPhone 4 is perfect. It's small enough it easily slips into my pocket - which is why I don't need a case or to worry about leaving it on a table, the roof of my car or the backseat of a cab

I'd hate to see Apple have to change the design of the iPhone to some other material that won't allow the design to be as compact because there are enough irresponsible klutzs out there to pretty much force them to change it

The amount of excuses and denial of basic personal responsibility are just staggering to me - our society simply will not be able to continue to function unless people get more realistic.
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post #220 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

210F is simply way too hot for any method of brewing or type of brewer, and it's also way beyond the SCAA's recommendations. (Which are a little misleading, anyway, since they don't account for differences inherent in brewing methods. For example, most people prefer to use a water temperature considerably below the SCAA's recommendations when using an AeroPress.)

see my posts above.

brew temp and drinking temp are completely different things. brewing coffee @ 140 F simply wont work. and since optimal cup temp is around 185 F, why should a vendor have to pre-cool coffee for the off-user that wants it lukewarm? they can put the cup in their cup holder and let it cool, MUCH more intelligent than putting it between your legs and removing the lid.

just because i like my pizza cold, does that mean pizzerias have to stop serving hot pizza??



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post #221 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Courts in the US already award costs to the winners of lawsuits.

Not always, and rarely in BS cases like this.

Quote:
It's a great way to dissuade people without a lot of money from filing lawsuits.

At this point, that is definitely the lesser of two evils.

Fine - cap the amount Lawyers can make on "fishing expedition" lawsuits like this one and ensure that the bulk of the award has to go to the litigants and not the attorneys.

I imagine that will be just as popular with lawyers and their lobbyist (basically most of congress being fellow lawyers) as looser pays
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post #222 of 303
1/28/11 at 9:58am
I have an iPhone4 and I love it. I have an Otterbox Defender case on it. I have dropped it onto a tile floor with no damage.

Buy a case...
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post #223 of 303
1/28/11 at 10:00am
I know of an incident involving a woman who dropped a beer bottle in a bar that broke. She had eye damage from the broken glass, preserved the evidence (defective bottle) and tried to pursue a lawsuit.
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post #224 of 303
1/28/11 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

This phone is supposed to be capable of falling and not breaking, it's one of the salespoints.

Citation please.

Lot's of BS flying around in this thread - I know it's probably pointless to ask but can we at least make a passing attempt to stick with facts and not Internet echo chamber hysteria?
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post #225 of 303
1/28/11 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

...I'd hate to see Apple have to change the design of the iPhone to some other material....

I think it is just matter of a warning label for someone to pull off without reading.
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post #226 of 303
1/28/11 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

You are incorrect. However, I haven't claimed to be an "expert", just pointed out that the OPs numbers were nonsense, which they are, and not at all in line with the SCAA's recommendations, despite your assertions that they were. And the SCAA's recommendations are not, in my opinion, worth much, except perhaps as a starting point. But, feel free to brew your coffee at 210F, if you like.


You keep trying to deflect the topic when in fact we are talking about commercial brewing in a fast food restaurant performed by high school dropout supervised by managers who cannot read or write English and yet you want to argue a degree Centigrade one way or the other? Give me a break. COFFEE IS HOT!

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #227 of 303
1/28/11 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Mind you, no where in here does it say that the glass will not break. It does not say what height the device has been tested in. It just says it is more durable. The lines of "glass used in windshields.. Strengthened to be 30 times harder..." are all adverting jargon aimed at making you feel like you are purchasing something more durable. While all this I assume to be true, doesn't mean the device is indestructible.

Nothing is indestructible.

The iPhone is an expensive piece of electronics, and should be treated as such. This guy is more at fault for giving his daughter an expensive piece of sensitive electronics and not expecting an accident to happen.

Just because it's a phone and people have all kinds of misguided assumptions about how a phone should perform doesn't mean he has a reasonable argument in the least. Quite the contrary!
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post #228 of 303
1/28/11 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by city View Post

I think it is just matter of a warning label for someone to pull off without reading.

Even that would be retarded - but unfortunately we seem to be sliding into the abyss of stupidity and the inability to take responsibility for our own actions.
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post #229 of 303
1/28/11 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Where did Apple claim that you could drop it without damaging it?

What Apple said is that the glass is stronger than plastic - and it is. So what LEGAL BASIS is there for suing?



What's your point? The iPhone IS durable. That's not the same as indestructible. You seem to have the two concepts confused.

If you can show me where Apple advertised that you could drop the phone on a hard surface without damage, you might have a point.



Not at all. Sue the company that makes the beer.



There's this thing called a 'case'.

If you don't want a glass phone, no one is making you buy one. But stop whining when you finally learn that glass breaks.

I am not for lawsuits especially this kind and no where did I say that the phone should be indestructible or any phone for that matter. Al I said was that using glass as a material the way Apple has makes this phone more vulnerable to sustaining damage. If you HAVE to buy a case for your phone then that in itself speaks to the problem. A phone should be durable enough to withstand drops etc. Drops from 5 feet maybe not but I can't think of a lot of other phones that suffer the same carnage that these have. No one person is perfect - accidents do happen.

Using a class action lawsuit is a way of bringing attention to a problem that may or may not exist. If evidence supports that the iPhone 4 is more susceptible then maybe it will have legs. Does anyone know for a fact that these new phones are better than the previous models when it comes to sustaining damage? I would be interested to know.My old 3Gs held up just fine and it was dropped a few times. Those of you without kids wouldn't know anything about the risk they pose to precious handheld devices.
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post #230 of 303
1/28/11 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

You keep trying to deflect the topic when in fact we are talking about commercial brewing in a fast food restaurant performed by high school dropout supervised by managers who cannot read or write English and yet you want to argue a degree Centigrade one way or the other? Give me a break. COFFEE IS HOT!

No, that's not what we were discussing in our back and forth. But, if you want to discuss that, yes, I think McDonald's was entirely liable for serving coffee at the temps they did, in the cups they did, through the takeout window. They had had several previous complaints related to people being injured by their product, served in the way they served it. They ignored those complaints and someone got seriously injured as a result. Furthermore, they could have avoided the entire lawsuit if they had simply agreed to pay her medical bills, which they refused to do, despite the injuries being the result of their reckless disregard for safety. I only wished that the jury award hadn't been reduced.
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post #231 of 303
1/28/11 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

I have an iPhone 4 and I love it. But, you should be honest, and this guy has a point. This phone is supposed to be capable of falling and not breaking, it's one of the salespoints. Gorilla glass, Combat helicopters and stuff, you remember? If that glass "designed to take a rocket and not break" can be killed by a little girl, MAYBE it has a little issue.

Mine is in a case

The iPhone 4 does not use Gorilla glass.
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post #232 of 303
1/28/11 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No other phone was touchscreen "in the past".

---How is this relevant to your point?


Sure, just not something as important as my phone.


---You are missing the point lots of people do drop their phones. Just because you don't doesn't mean that Apple should assume that everyone else is like you. The basic assumption should be that people are clumsy.


Is something as crucial as a connection to the outside world supposed to be treated like a basketball?


---Well if we take it your way, something that crucial should be a helluva lot more durable. Just so I know where does it say anything about treating the phone like a basketball?
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post #233 of 303
1/28/11 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originaldub View Post

Just so I know where does it say anything about treating the phone like a basketball?

Where you said that it should be able to survive multiple drops.
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post #234 of 303
1/28/11 at 11:10am
Is anyone else getting tired of these "I'm mad as HELL and I'm not going to take it anymore" types?
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post #235 of 303
1/28/11 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneof52 View Post

That specific McDonalds intentionally made the coffee scalding hot to run the old people off from sitting around all day getting refills.

The McDonalds executives that testifies were such pompous asses that they pissed the jury off. Thats why the big award.

The court of appeals also dramatically reduced the damages awarded. Nobody ever hears the whole story.

No, MacDonalds served the coffee at 185ºF, substantially hotter than any other fast food restaurant (which is typically below 160ºF) and further had received over 700 reports of serious burns due to coffee spills in the previous years.

MacDonalds claimed that the drinks were served at this temperature to allow sufficient time for people to go home, even though their own research showed that most customers purchased the drinks for consumption in the car.

This was the basis for the juries award of punitive damages. The award was reduced later on appeal, but remained about half a million dollars prior to the private settlement.

The whole story is easily available on the net, if you would look for it. Given your misunderstanding of the facts in the case, perhaps you should.
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post #236 of 303
1/28/11 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

No, that's not what we were discussing in our back and forth.

No what we were discussing is that you were being an arrogant jerk in your original remark that the OP did not know anything about coffee, when in fact I believe he does know quite a bit. When I called you on it, you began to split hairs to try to weasel out of your erroneous claim that the OP was 100% incorrect. So when your last stance was reduced to a degree Centigrade of difference and clearly not a very strong argument, you started attacking the SCAA which is ridiculous since it is the most well respected authority on coffee in the entire world.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #237 of 303
1/28/11 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Not always, and rarely in BS cases like this.

I don't know how often, but judges can award costs already when the circumstances justify it. Forcing them to do so by law only makes it more difficult for less affluent plaintiffs to bring lawsuits, which I suspect some people think is a good result. Maybe they should just come out and admit it.

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At this point, that is definitely the lesser of two evils.

Fine - cap the amount Lawyers can make on "fishing expedition" lawsuits like this one and ensure that the bulk of the award has to go to the litigants and not the attorneys.

I imagine that will be just as popular with lawyers and their lobbyist (basically most of congress being fellow lawyers) as looser pays

It's a fact that most class actions are of primary benefit to attorneys, but in reality, caps on payments serve pretty much the same purpose as automatically awarding costs to the winners. You'd find few attorneys willing to take cases on contingency under those circumstances.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #238 of 303
1/28/11 at 11:33am
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

No what we were discussing is that you were being an arrogant jerk in your original remark that the OP did not know anything about coffee, when in fact I believe he does know quite a bit. When I called you on it, you began to split hairs to try to weasel out of your erroneous claim that the OP was 100% incorrect. So when your last stance was reduced to a degree Centigrade of difference and clearly not a very strong argument, you started attacking the SCAA which is ridiculous since it is the most well respected authority on coffee in the entire world.

I didn't split any hairs, the OPs numbers are simply wrong, and they have nothing to do with the SCAA's numbers, so your equating them is simply wrong (even if that was the OPs intent, he was wrong). So, you're both 100% incorrect. As far as the SCAA being, "the most well respected authority on coffee in the entire world," well, not by everyone.

Oh, and, BTW, now you're changing your story about what it was we were discussing? Better go back and edit your posts to eliminate your self-contradictions.
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post #239 of 303
1/28/11 at 11:43am
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No other phone was touchscreen "in the past".



Sure, just not something as important as my phone.



Is something as crucial as a connection to the outside world supposed to be treated like a basketball?

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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Where you said that it should be able to survive multiple drops.

I never said anything about multiple drops anywhere in my post. I just said that phones get dropped for a multitude of reasons and that Apple should take that fact into consideration. The phone is not that durable regardless of what people say, I have seen it for myself at the Apple Store and there are plenty of reports that support this fact.The glass surface is more susceptible because they have mounted it directly on top of the frame of the phone unlike their previous design where the glass was inset.

I am merely stating what is known to be true. To suggest that people don't drop there phones and they should be treated like a rare piece of bone china is completely ridiculous (not saying you said that). A majority of the posts in here with the exception of a few border on asinine because they make the basic assumption that anyone who drops their phone is an idiot and deserves it if it breaks. No one drops their phone on purpose you do know that right?
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post #240 of 303
1/28/11 at 11:49am
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Originally Posted by anantksundaram

The fact that Apple sold tens of millions of them tells us that your concern about the company's 'stupidity' is unwarranted.

Not really, if you have a phone worth over $500, you're likely going to try and look after it regardless of what it's made of. In much the same way you walk carefully through department stores full of expensive china. If someone left an expensive vase in a precarious situation, you can say don't go in the store or you can say it wasn't the smartest thing to do creating the situation in the first place.

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Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

no, buying one made out of glass is stupid if you don't like the idea of it being made out of glass.

I would hazard a guess that a large majority of people would dislike the idea of anything designed to be used in a mobile scenario being built primarily of glass. Vehicle windows are made of glass by necessity not by choice.



The worst part is that the glass sticks out from the edge of the band. They could at least have carved the metal band with a diagonal lip and done the same with the glass in the opposite direction with a rubber layer between so that flat surfaces don't contact the glass and the rubber layer absorbs the impact. They could even use the rubber they use on the base of the unibody Macbook for the back. That way they can finally make the white one and it's easy gripped. It's going to get dirty more easily but dirt lets you know when you need a new one.
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