Egypt goes dark

Originally Posted by john galt

Lots of luck "silencing dissent." Governments can unplug us from the Internet, it can confiscate our guns, it can burn our books, and lock up outspoken people in the Gulag. But the light of freedom that's been burning in men for thousands of years will never be extinguished.



Why am I not surprised.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/...e_8280065.html

Originally Posted by SDW2001

My concern is that in the aftermath of the revolt, the government is taken over by true islamists. Is that a real possibility? I don't know enough about the situation in Egypt right now to know.

Originally Posted by segovius

Seems official buildings are now on fire and people are jumping over tanks.

I wonder what Obama will do? Wait...no I don't... he'll do this:

1) Wheel out Clinton to denounce violence while paying lip service to 'democracy'

2) Dither and do nothing while the power-brokers get on the phone to Mubarak and pledge support

3) Frantically work out a contingency plan to try to keep their ally in power before it's too late.

I think it might already be though......

Originally Posted by Hands Sandon

Isn't that going to make them look too hypocritical given their support for the Tunisian uprising? I think and hope they'll (clinton) will call for peace but support the demonstrators. If the new regime they don't like in the future they can just bomb them and call it regime change et al.

As he sat shaken and drenched, his eyes stinging from tear gas, Elbaradei, 68, said protesters had called for nonviolent change, "but I think that opportunity is over. It's now the people versus the thugs."

He added it was "time for the international community to express its view on the so-called stability of the Egyptian government. If they don't do that now, they will lose the residue of credibility they have in Egypt and the rest of the Arab world."

Originally Posted by segovius

I think this sums it up...just heard that protesters have been picking up the Tear-Gas canisters and pointing to the print shouting "Made in USA....Made in USA....."

Originally Posted by segovius

I'd say the Muslim Brotherhood are best placed to step into any gap.

This might not be a bad thing imo. You'd probably hate them SDW and call them Islamists but actually in Egypt (maybe not elsewhere, they are a faction there) they have renounced violence and campaign democratically running as independent candidates. Not that that gets them anywhere.

What you have to ask yourself is this: what is the difference between an Islamist and a hardline conservative Muslim group.

I don't support the MB but mainly because they are conservative and, imo, what Islamic States need is forward looking Islamic progressive parties.

The choice it seems though is restricted to US toadying dictators vs Islamist Conservatives.

Neither of these are good for the people but the MB at least would be a change and could also lead to progression. Imo it is a necessary step between what is now and the ultimate goal which is a progressive Islam with the Mullahs, Clerics and general conservative old farts marginalized.

Originally Posted by SDW2001

Knowing your posting, I have to believe that "conservative" is meant as nothing more than a slur...a way of tying extremists to mainstream conservatives in the United States. Hmm?

As for "renouncing violence" and "campaigning democratically": I would need to see where they stand. What is their position on human rights? Women's rights? Freedom of the press and general freedom of the citizenry? Freedom of religion? I'm not saying those are all there now.

Originally Posted by BR

Saw this linked from twitter briefly before it was taken down...

"What Egypt needs right now is a tax break for the wealthy to create jobs" - Dave Anthony

Originally Posted by BR

Saw this linked from twitter briefly before it was taken down...

"What Egypt needs right now is a tax break for the wealthy to create jobs" - Dave Anthony

Originally Posted by BR

No doubt. 1 in 7 Americans live in poverty. If these uprisings continue throughout the world, I wonder how long it will take for our own poor to take to the streets.

Originally Posted by tonton

They already do. It's called the Tea Party. And soon it may get violent.

Unfortunately, their "solutions" to the problems we're facing will only make their lives more miserable for a long time before they get better, and after they've done the damage they want to do, the only way to make things better for the poor again will be to make the country even more socialist than it is now, or has ever been. In the end, this could be a good thing, but the interim will be a time of terrible strife and ruined national productivity. We will become the Wild West before we become America again. And at some point, most likely, our creditors will give up.

Originally Posted by john galt

Lots of luck "silencing dissent." Governments can unplug us from the Internet, it can confiscate our guns, it can burn our books, and lock up outspoken people in the Gulag. But the light of freedom that's been burning in men for thousands of years will never be extinguished.



Why am I not comforted.



Why am I not surprised.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/...e_8280065.html

Originally Posted by gerald apple

Freedom will never be lost! These people want their equal rights which they deserve and get rid of an old tyrant after 30 years in power.Kudos to them.Go for it.

Originally Posted by FloorJack

Mubarak has the third longest rein in Egypt's history. It's doubtful he'll pass Ramses' 67 year run.

Originally Posted by MJ1970

It looks like the US government might actually be playing both sides.

I shouldn't say that I find this terribly surprising. It's done right here at home only in far more subtle ways.

Originally Posted by sammi jo

The tear gas being used against protesters in Egypt (Tunisia, Yemen, Palestine, etc) is produced by CSI (Combined Services Inc), located in Jamestown, Pennsylvania (USA)... amongst others of course. CSI is, in essence, an Israeli firm and prominently flies the Israeli flag outside its US headquarters. Their tear gas typically contains the highly toxic component of CS gas, which killed at least one Palestinian woman (Jawaher abu Rahmah) three weeks ago. The CS gas choking Egyptian protesters is a present from the Israelis... probably paid for, in a round-about fashion, by we the US taxpayers... nice huh.

But, its business as usual. For decades, especially since the end of WWII and the inexorable metastasis of the military/security/industrial cancer within the US economy, the US (corporate controlled government) has gone to an inordinate effort to THWART or EXCLUDE freedom for any nations headed by non-democratic insitutions: malleable dictatorships and autocracies make life easier and more profitable for US (and global) big business, in many sectors. The fact that the US has traditionally supported thugs, despots, dictators, juntas and autocrats, while toppling democratically elected governments in Mid East, South and Central American, and Third World nations is quite easy to understand, especially if one's retirement portfolio is weighted in companies that profit from war, chaos and unrest.

Mubarak is just another puppet thug. Follow the money, it's the same everywhere

Originally Posted by sammi jo

The Saudi king has "slammed the protests". This was to be expected. How long will it take for the Saudi people to rise up and claim their freedom from yet another authoritarian system? Its about time. Saudi Arabia, step up to the plate.

Originally Posted by SDW2001

Your nutballery knows no bounds.

The tear gas being used against protesters in Egypt (Tunisia, Yemen, Palestine, etc) is produced by CSI (Combined Services Inc), located in Jamestown, Pennsylvania (USA)... amongst others of course.

CSI is, in essence, an Israeli firm and prominently flies the Israeli flag outside its US headquarters.

Their tear gas typically contains the highly toxic component of CS gas, which killed at least one Palestinian woman (Jawaher abu Rahmah) three weeks ago.

The CS gas choking Egyptian protesters is a present from the Israelis... probably paid for, in a round-about fashion, by we the US taxpayers... nice huh.

But, its business as usual. For decades, especially since the end of WWII and the inexorable metastasis of the military/security/industrial cancer within the US economy, the US (corporate controlled government) has gone to an inordinate effort to THWART or EXCLUDE freedom for any nations headed by non-democratic insitutions: malleable dictatorships and autocracies make life easier and more profitable for US (and global) big business, in many sectors. The fact that the US has traditionally supported thugs, despots, dictators, juntas and autocrats, while toppling democratically elected governments in Mid East, South and Central American, and Third World nations is quite easy to understand, especially if one's retirement portfolio is weighted in companies that profit from war, chaos and unrest.

Mubarak is just another puppet thug. Follow the money, it's the same everywhere

Originally Posted by SDW2001

Your nutballery knows no bounds.

Originally Posted by sammi jo

If you could refute my post using facts and rational arguments, rather than school playground name-calling, it might help your cause some....

Originally Posted by segovius

Well...that's Number One on that list as I thought.

It's hypocritical anyway....why call for non-violence under such circumstances? Especially when Clinton is a massive advocate of violence when it comes down to it.

It's like if someone attacks you repeatedly with an iron bar every night for months and when you finally snap and hit them you get a dickwad calling for you to 'defend yourself peacefully'.

Originally Posted by gerald apple

Where do you get the notion Clinton favors violence? I guess you are a hard headed Republican which does favor wars to make a profit.

Originally Posted by Hands Sandon

Seg, or anybody else, what's your sense of what's going to happen in the coming days?

Tension is mounting in the Egyptian capital Cairo after the military staged an apparent show of strength during a sixth day of anti-government protests.