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Egypt goes dark

post #1 of 289
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Egypt has apparently done what many technologists thought was unthinkable for any country with a major Internet economy: It unplugged itself entirely from the Internet to try and silence dissent.

Lots of luck "silencing dissent." Governments can unplug us from the Internet, it can confiscate our guns, it can burn our books, and lock up outspoken people in the Gulag. But the light of freedom that's been burning in men for thousands of years will never be extinguished.

Quote:
"It can't happen (in the US)," said Jim Cowie, the chief technology officer and a co-founder of Renesys, a network security firm in Manchester, N.H., that studies Internet disruptions.

Why am I not comforted.

Quote:
... the idea of a single "kill switch" to turn the Internet on and off has seduced some American lawmakers, who have pushed for the power to shutter the Internet in a national emergency.

Why am I not surprised.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/...e_8280065.html
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post #2 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

Lots of luck "silencing dissent." Governments can unplug us from the Internet, it can confiscate our guns, it can burn our books, and lock up outspoken people in the Gulag. But the light of freedom that's been burning in men for thousands of years will never be extinguished.



Why am I not surprised.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/...e_8280065.html

My concern is that in the aftermath of the revolt, the government is taken over by true islamists. Is that a real possibility? I don't know enough about the situation in Egypt right now to know.
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post #3 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

My concern is that in the aftermath of the revolt, the government is taken over by true islamists. Is that a real possibility? I don't know enough about the situation in Egypt right now to know.

I'd say the Muslim Brotherhood are best placed to step into any gap.

This might not be a bad thing imo. You'd probably hate them SDW and call them Islamists but actually in Egypt (maybe not elsewhere, they are a faction there) they have renounced violence and campaign democratically running as independent candidates. Not that that gets them anywhere.

What you have to ask yourself is this: what is the difference between an Islamist and a hardline conservative Muslim group.

I don't support the MB but mainly because they are conservative and, imo, what Islamic States need is forward looking Islamic progressive parties.

The choice it seems though is restricted to US toadying dictators vs Islamist Conservatives.

Neither of these are good for the people but the MB at least would be a change and could also lead to progression. Imo it is a necessary step between what is now and the ultimate goal which is a progressive Islam with the Mullahs, Clerics and general conservative old farts marginalized.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #4 of 289
The BBC is doing what they can to cover the situation which can be followed @

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

they will try to update the coverage and events happen.

another site personal accounts@

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12308405
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #5 of 289
Seems official buildings are now on fire and people are jumping over tanks.

I wonder what Obama will do? Wait...no I don't... he'll do this:

1) Wheel out Clinton to denounce violence while paying lip service to 'democracy'

2) Dither and do nothing while the power-brokers get on the phone to Mubarak and pledge support

3) Frantically work out a contingency plan to try to keep their ally in power before it's too late.

I think it might already be though......
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #6 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Seems official buildings are now on fire and people are jumping over tanks.

I wonder what Obama will do? Wait...no I don't... he'll do this:

1) Wheel out Clinton to denounce violence while paying lip service to 'democracy'

2) Dither and do nothing while the power-brokers get on the phone to Mubarak and pledge support

3) Frantically work out a contingency plan to try to keep their ally in power before it's too late.

I think it might already be though......

Isn't that going to make them look too hypocritical given their support for the Tunisian uprising? I think and hope they'll (clinton) will call for peace but support the demonstrators. If the new regime they don't like in the future they can just bomb them and call it regime change et al.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #7 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Isn't that going to make them look too hypocritical given their support for the Tunisian uprising? I think and hope they'll (clinton) will call for peace but support the demonstrators. If the new regime they don't like in the future they can just bomb them and call it regime change et al.

Well...that's Number One on that list as I thought.

It's hypocritical anyway....why call for non-violence under such circumstances? Especially when Clinton is a massive advocate of violence when it comes down to it.

It's like if someone attacks you repeatedly with an iron bar every night for months and when you finally snap and hit them you get a dickwad calling for you to 'defend yourself peacefully'.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #8 of 289
According to al Jazeera three people have been killed.

Also it seems opposition leader El Baradei has been attacked and doused by a water cannon. Other reports say he has disappeared but that is currently unclear.

Quote:
As he sat shaken and drenched, his eyes stinging from tear gas, Elbaradei, 68, said protesters had called for nonviolent change, "but I think that opportunity is over. It's now the people versus the thugs."

He added it was "time for the international community to express its view on the so-called stability of the Egyptian government. If they don't do that now, they will lose the residue of credibility they have in Egypt and the rest of the Arab world."

Link
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #9 of 289
I think this sums it up...just heard that protesters have been picking up the Tear-Gas canisters and pointing to the print shouting "Made in USA....Made in USA....."
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #10 of 289
UK Foreign Secretary Hague supports Egyptian freedom:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12310266
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #11 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I think this sums it up...just heard that protesters have been picking up the Tear-Gas canisters and pointing to the print shouting "Made in USA....Made in USA....."

Profiting from oppression? Well, well, well... who would have ever thunk it?
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #12 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I'd say the Muslim Brotherhood are best placed to step into any gap.

This might not be a bad thing imo. You'd probably hate them SDW and call them Islamists but actually in Egypt (maybe not elsewhere, they are a faction there) they have renounced violence and campaign democratically running as independent candidates. Not that that gets them anywhere.

What you have to ask yourself is this: what is the difference between an Islamist and a hardline conservative Muslim group.

I don't support the MB but mainly because they are conservative and, imo, what Islamic States need is forward looking Islamic progressive parties.

The choice it seems though is restricted to US toadying dictators vs Islamist Conservatives.

Neither of these are good for the people but the MB at least would be a change and could also lead to progression. Imo it is a necessary step between what is now and the ultimate goal which is a progressive Islam with the Mullahs, Clerics and general conservative old farts marginalized.

Knowing your posting, I have to believe that "conservative" is meant as nothing more than a slur...a way of tying extremists to mainstream conservatives in the United States. Hmm?

As for "renouncing violence" and "campaigning democratically": I would need to see where they stand. What is their position on human rights? Women's rights? Freedom of the press and general freedom of the citizenry? Freedom of religion? I'm not saying those are all there now.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #13 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Knowing your posting, I have to believe that "conservative" is meant as nothing more than a slur...a way of tying extremists to mainstream conservatives in the United States. Hmm?

It means Conservative Muslims SDW.

It is a common term in everyday usage. You may 'have to believe it' but you should free yourself. It limits you and makes you wrong on occasion. Like now.

Quote:
As for "renouncing violence" and "campaigning democratically": I would need to see where they stand. What is their position on human rights? Women's rights? Freedom of the press and general freedom of the citizenry? Freedom of religion? I'm not saying those are all there now.

Well...inform yourself of their position on these matters and get back to me. Try to remember the MB in Egypt is not the same as elsewhere such as Syria.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #14 of 289
The tear gas being used against protesters in Egypt (Tunisia, Yemen, Palestine, etc) is produced by CSI (Combined Services Inc), located in Jamestown, Pennsylvania (USA)... amongst others of course. CSI is, in essence, an Israeli firm and prominently flies the Israeli flag outside its US headquarters. Their tear gas typically contains the highly toxic component of CS gas, which killed at least one Palestinian woman (Jawaher abu Rahmah) three weeks ago. The CS gas choking Egyptian protesters is a present from the Israelis... probably paid for, in a round-about fashion, by we the US taxpayers... nice huh.

But, its business as usual. For decades, especially since the end of WWII and the inexorable metastasis of the military/security/industrial cancer within the US economy, the US (corporate controlled government) has gone to an inordinate effort to THWART or EXCLUDE freedom for any nations headed by non-democratic insitutions: malleable dictatorships and autocracies make life easier and more profitable for US (and global) big business, in many sectors. The fact that the US has traditionally supported thugs, despots, dictators, juntas and autocrats, while toppling democratically elected governments in Mid East, South and Central American, and Third World nations is quite easy to understand, especially if one's retirement portfolio is weighted in companies that profit from war, chaos and unrest.

Mubarak is just another puppet thug. Follow the money, it's the same everywhere
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #15 of 289
"Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising:


The American government secretly backed leading figures behind the Egyptian uprising who have been planning “regime change” for the past three years, The Daily Telegraph has learned.

The protests in Egypt are being driven by the April 6 youth movement, a group on Facebook that has attracted mainly young and educated members opposed to Mr Mubarak. The group has about 70,000 members and uses social networking sites to orchestrate protests and report on their activities.

The memo, which Ambassador Scobey sent to the US Secretary of State in Washington DC, was marked “confidential” and headed: “April 6 activist on his US visit and regime change in Egypt.”

It said the activist claimed “several opposition forces” had “agreed to support an unwritten plan for a transition to a parliamentary democracy, involving a weakened presidency and an empowered prime minister and parliament, before the scheduled 2011 presidential elections”. The embassy’s source said the plan was “so sensitive it cannot be written down”.
~ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-uprising.html
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #16 of 289
Saw this linked from twitter briefly before it was taken down...

"What Egypt needs right now is a tax break for the wealthy to create jobs" - Dave Anthony

 

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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #17 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Saw this linked from twitter briefly before it was taken down...

"What Egypt needs right now is a tax break for the wealthy to create jobs" - Dave Anthony



To create jobs? As in personal trainers, bodyguards, staff for their yachts, personal mechanics for their Rolls Royces, janitors for the toilets on their private jets... etc etc?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #18 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Saw this linked from twitter briefly before it was taken down...

"What Egypt needs right now is a tax break for the wealthy to create jobs" - Dave Anthony

The Conservatives on the board will no doubt fail to get the joke.
post #19 of 289
No doubt. 1 in 7 Americans live in poverty. If these uprisings continue throughout the world, I wonder how long it will take for our own poor to take to the streets.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #20 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

No doubt. 1 in 7 Americans live in poverty. If these uprisings continue throughout the world, I wonder how long it will take for our own poor to take to the streets.

They already do. It's called the Tea Party. And soon it may get violent.

Unfortunately, their "solutions" to the problems we're facing will only make their lives more miserable for a long time before they get better, and after they've done the damage they want to do, the only way to make things better for the poor again will be to make the country even more socialist than it is now, or has ever been. In the end, this could be a good thing, but the interim will be a time of terrible strife and ruined national productivity. We will become the Wild West before we become America again. And at some point, most likely, our creditors will give up.
post #21 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

They already do. It's called the Tea Party. And soon it may get violent.

Unfortunately, their "solutions" to the problems we're facing will only make their lives more miserable for a long time before they get better, and after they've done the damage they want to do, the only way to make things better for the poor again will be to make the country even more socialist than it is now, or has ever been. In the end, this could be a good thing, but the interim will be a time of terrible strife and ruined national productivity. We will become the Wild West before we become America again. And at some point, most likely, our creditors will give up.

It's slightly different in the US for other reasons too. To be simplistic, corruption and oppression in the Arab world is more honest - ie I mean obvious or transparent.

For example, Mubarak apparently got 96% of the vote in the last election....but no-one on the street is supporting him. Where is the 96%?

This is how it works from Saddam to Asad to Mubarak - the Govt is corrupt and violent and the populace not only know this they HAVE to know. In order for the system to work.

People have to know they will be tortured and possibly killed if they rock the boat.

The US is different - though would not look very different at all if it gets to the same level of protest in the streets - in that they went a different route to control the populace.

They made them believe the Govt were 'the good guys' and pointed to people like Mubarak and Saddam as the 'bad guys'. A hard argument to counter.

But it means that change in the US first means changing the mind of the populace - far, far harder.

This is why the opposition in Egypt is the oppressed people btw and the opposition in the US is the Tea Party who are far more aligned to the actual oppressors and should they ever get power will dish out more of the same. Their mindsets never changed...they really still believe they are 'the good guys' (see NYC mosque issue for a classic illustration).
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #22 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

Lots of luck "silencing dissent." Governments can unplug us from the Internet, it can confiscate our guns, it can burn our books, and lock up outspoken people in the Gulag. But the light of freedom that's been burning in men for thousands of years will never be extinguished.



Why am I not comforted.



Why am I not surprised.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/...e_8280065.html

Freedom will never be lost! These people want their equal rights which they deserve and get rid of an old tyrant after 30 years in power.Kudos to them.Go for it.
post #23 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

Freedom will never be lost! These people want their equal rights which they deserve and get rid of an old tyrant after 30 years in power.Kudos to them.Go for it.

Not sure the US will let them get away with it so easy though.

That dictator represents THE major investment they have made in the Arab world. Can't see them writing it off without a fight.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #24 of 289
Mubarak has the third longest rein in Egypt's history. It's doubtful he'll pass Ramses' 67 year run.
post #25 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Mubarak has the third longest rein in Egypt's history. It's doubtful he'll pass Ramses' 67 year run.

reign
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #26 of 289
It looks like the US government might actually be playing both sides.

I shouldn't say that I find this terribly surprising. It's done right here at home only in far more subtle ways.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #27 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It looks like the US government might actually be playing both sides.

I shouldn't say that I find this terribly surprising. It's done right here at home only in far more subtle ways.

I must say I find this very difficult to believe....

I am sure that the US HAD planned for years for some sort of regime change and backed figures in the army perhaps but I don't think they anticipated this public uprising and can't believe they had anything to do with it...it is spontaneous.

When the US does something in the nature of such an op it usually involves violence or some form of underground destabilisation (a 'terrorist' campaign say, it almost always is overplanned and too intricate and invariably goes FUBAR.

It NEVER involves supporting the actual people or empowering them like is happening in Egypt....why would it? You'd only make a problem for yourself when it comes time to rule them after you've installed the puppet there.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #28 of 289
The Saudi king has "slammed the protests". This was to be expected. How long will it take for the Saudi people to rise up and claim their freedom from yet another authoritarian system? Its about time. Saudi Arabia, step up to the plate.
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #29 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

The tear gas being used against protesters in Egypt (Tunisia, Yemen, Palestine, etc) is produced by CSI (Combined Services Inc), located in Jamestown, Pennsylvania (USA)... amongst others of course. CSI is, in essence, an Israeli firm and prominently flies the Israeli flag outside its US headquarters. Their tear gas typically contains the highly toxic component of CS gas, which killed at least one Palestinian woman (Jawaher abu Rahmah) three weeks ago. The CS gas choking Egyptian protesters is a present from the Israelis... probably paid for, in a round-about fashion, by we the US taxpayers... nice huh.

But, its business as usual. For decades, especially since the end of WWII and the inexorable metastasis of the military/security/industrial cancer within the US economy, the US (corporate controlled government) has gone to an inordinate effort to THWART or EXCLUDE freedom for any nations headed by non-democratic insitutions: malleable dictatorships and autocracies make life easier and more profitable for US (and global) big business, in many sectors. The fact that the US has traditionally supported thugs, despots, dictators, juntas and autocrats, while toppling democratically elected governments in Mid East, South and Central American, and Third World nations is quite easy to understand, especially if one's retirement portfolio is weighted in companies that profit from war, chaos and unrest.

Mubarak is just another puppet thug. Follow the money, it's the same everywhere


Your nutballery knows no bounds.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #30 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

The Saudi king has "slammed the protests". This was to be expected. How long will it take for the Saudi people to rise up and claim their freedom from yet another authoritarian system? Its about time. Saudi Arabia, step up to the plate.

It's got to happen.....

All depends on what happens now in Egypt. I can't see the protesters backing down now - as I heard one say: if they go back to their homes the goon squad will come for them and they will be 'disappeared'.

There's no way back...they have to win. Or else....

And if that happens it's got to be Syria next then Saudi...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #31 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Your nutballery knows no bounds.

Well...no use expecting you to support that statement so let's analyse it piece by piece:

Quote:
The tear gas being used against protesters in Egypt (Tunisia, Yemen, Palestine, etc) is produced by CSI (Combined Services Inc), located in Jamestown, Pennsylvania (USA)... amongst others of course.

Nutballery? No...a verifiable fact.

What's the term for denial of facts? Has to be 'nutballery' no?

Quote:
CSI is, in essence, an Israeli firm and prominently flies the Israeli flag outside its US headquarters.

Also undeniable and verifiable.

Quote:
Their tear gas typically contains the highly toxic component of CS gas, which killed at least one Palestinian woman (Jawaher abu Rahmah) three weeks ago.

Again...widely known. Suppressed in the MSM - unpleasant to Conservatives but widely known nonetheless.

Quote:
The CS gas choking Egyptian protesters is a present from the Israelis... probably paid for, in a round-about fashion, by we the US taxpayers... nice huh.

Egypt is a major ally of Israel surprisingly enough. Not just one of the Arab States that made peace but an actual ally. Fair enough. So why not?

Nutballery? I see none yet.

Quote:
But, its business as usual. For decades, especially since the end of WWII and the inexorable metastasis of the military/security/industrial cancer within the US economy, the US (corporate controlled government) has gone to an inordinate effort to THWART or EXCLUDE freedom for any nations headed by non-democratic insitutions: malleable dictatorships and autocracies make life easier and more profitable for US (and global) big business, in many sectors. The fact that the US has traditionally supported thugs, despots, dictators, juntas and autocrats, while toppling democratically elected governments in Mid East, South and Central American, and Third World nations is quite easy to understand, especially if one's retirement portfolio is weighted in companies that profit from war, chaos and unrest.

Again...a demonstrable and supportable truth. Sad but true. I wish it were otherwise but there you have it...

Quote:
Mubarak is just another puppet thug. Follow the money, it's the same everywhere

Yep...sums it up...a brilliant and concise summation.

Can't argue with any of it.

Could you perhaps provide some support for your rather odd dismissal of the facts?

I guess not...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #32 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Your nutballery knows no bounds.

If you could refute my post using facts and rational arguments, rather than school playground name-calling, it might help your cause some....
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #33 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

If you could refute my post using facts and rational arguments, rather than school playground name-calling, it might help your cause some....

Don't think it's imminent though somehow...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #34 of 289
The cutting off the internet, cellphones and other communications in an attempt to stop people- power in Egypt has failed.

What is the purpose of Lieberman's desire to introduce a similar "kill switch" in the US? Curbing people-power in the event of mass dissent against our own corrupt ruling elites?

Why else?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #35 of 289
SDW goes dark.
post #36 of 289
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #37 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Well...that's Number One on that list as I thought.

It's hypocritical anyway....why call for non-violence under such circumstances? Especially when Clinton is a massive advocate of violence when it comes down to it.

It's like if someone attacks you repeatedly with an iron bar every night for months and when you finally snap and hit them you get a dickwad calling for you to 'defend yourself peacefully'.


Where do you get the notion Clinton favors violence? I guess you are a hard headed Republican which does favor wars to make a profit.
post #38 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

Where do you get the notion Clinton favors violence? I guess you are a hard headed Republican which does favor wars to make a profit.

Right.You got me. That's me....

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #39 of 289
Seg, or anybody else, what's your sense of what's going to happen in the coming days?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #40 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Seg, or anybody else, what's your sense of what's going to happen in the coming days?

Updates from the BBC have been about the best I could find.

Live: Egypt unrest day six

I sense that the military might play a key role. If they support Mubarak and if he tries to stay in power things may get more violent as the military steps up to quash the rebellion. If there is someone in the military who wants to take over there can be a coup....seems like this has happen before in Egypt.

This week will be key either Mubarak will leave peacefully or by force.

Egypt protests: Tension rises as jets buzz Cairo square
Quote:
Tension is mounting in the Egyptian capital Cairo after the military staged an apparent show of strength during a sixth day of anti-government protests.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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