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post #121 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

OMG, she knows no bounds!

"At a speech in Reno on Saturday, Sarah Palin said she thinks a recently discussed media boycott of her is good--because then she won't get "blamed" for the uprising in Egypt.

According to a report by The Daily Beast, Palin made a clear reference to Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank's widely circulated pledge not to write anything about her for the whole of February. Milbank wrote that, since Palin did not hold political office and had become "more like Ann Coulter," he would try to ease his "obsession" with writing about her, or mentioning her in any media appearance, for a month.
Speaking at a meeting of the Safari Club, a hunting organization, Palin apparently said that was fine with her. The boycott, she said, "sounds good, because there's a lot of chaos in Cairo, and I can't wait to not get blamed for it--at least for a month.""
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_816159.html

I guess she doesn't support democracy either, sheesh, sheesh, sheesh!

Send Palin to Egypt and let her rot there for good with the President Mubarek.
post #122 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post

It's something a rabid bush-supporter would say, "See, Bush was right all along, by invading and forcing Iraq to embrace democracy, the people in the other arabic states will see how much better Iraq's situation has become, how freedom, selfdetermination... leads to prosperity... so that they would long for the same for their societies..."

but the problem with that argument is that Iraq is very far away from enjoying the fruits of its new freedoms, entangled in so many problems, be it the shia-sunni-kurd-relations, the rampant corruption, torture, militias.. that it can't possibly serve as the "light" Bush envisioned, at least not yet, maybe decades later, if (a big if) Iraq solved its mess eventually.

The situation is a very, very simple one.

Once the US and Co had control of Afghanistan and Iraq with Saddam deposed - from that moment on all they had to do was to open it up to business from other Aran states.

Dubai, UAE - all the Arab super-rich states...get them to invest. Build malls, have your McDonald's...the whole 9 yards. Hell, if you go on the hajj the first thing you see outside the grand masjid is Burger King. You get a receipt when you buy saying 'thanks for eating at Burger King at the Holy Mosque".

I don't agree obviously and of course it is yet another example of Saudi scumbaggery but I am just saying: ten years down the line Iraq would also have $20 million Christmas trees in luxury hotels with safe streets.

Everyone would have made millions: The Iraqis, the Saudis/UAE or other investors and the US.

But it didn't happen.

Because the US would rather it didn't.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #123 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

Send Palin to Egypt and let her rot there for good with the President Mubarek.

Or Iran.

I'll donate and send her a gift of proper Islamic dress for when she gets there - an "I heart Salman Rushdie" tank top.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #124 of 289
Situation seems like a stand-off at the moment with Mubarak trying to sit it out and hope the protesters will get fed up.

I think if nothing happens by Friday prayers this is going to be the time when they take it up a gear and start marching on the palaces and Govt buildings.

That has got to be the crunch-time no? Anyone have any other ideas?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #125 of 289
I overheard someone from the egyptian army telling the BBC that like with the assassination of Sadat the second row of the army will solve the crisis, and that then the military will take things over and prepare for democratic elections.

Looks like a military coup is being considered and Mubarak and co could end either captured or killed.
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
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I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
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post #126 of 289
Interesting comment here on BBC Coverage

Quote:
1917: Khalid in Saudi Arabia writes: "People in the Arab world are not craving democracy. People in the Arab world are fed up with corruption. In order to eliminate corruption in Egypt, the rioters should not stop in the overthrow of Mubarak but should seek the overthrow of the whole government of Mubarak."

Exactly. Brilliantly put.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #127 of 289
So Mubarak steps down...but at the end of his term.

Will the people accept this?

I think/hope not.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #128 of 289
Realizing that his popularity has slipped Hosni Mubarak vows to quit after polls
Quote:
Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has said that he will not stand for re-election in September, as protests against his rule grow.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #129 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

So Mubarak steps down...but at the end of his term.

Will the people accept this?

I think/hope not.

No they won't. They'll have to push him out...seems some kind of military
involvement might chuck him out.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #130 of 289
The military told the demonstrators to go home, that their demands became known and that they should return to normal life.

The dilemma for the demonstrators is that going home with Mubarak still in power could prove fatal, since the secret police would pick up ex-demonstrators at their homes and let them disappear in torture-chambers.

It would be wiser to amass the demonstrations more and more until he leaves immediately.
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post #131 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post

The military told the demonstrators to go home, that their demands became known and that they should return to normal life.

The dilemma for the demonstrators is that going home with Mubarak still in power could prove fatal, since the secret police would pick up ex-demonstrators at their homes and let them disappear in torture-chambers.

It would be wiser to amass the demonstrations more and more until he leaves immediately.

Agreed. Mubarak saying he was going to leave anyway won't stop the protestors.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #132 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Agreed. Mubarak saying he was going to leave anyway won't stop the protestors.

It does mean things will get ratcheted up a bit though if progress is to be made.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #133 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

So Mubarak steps down...but at the end of his term.

Will the people accept this?

I think/hope not.

Mubarek is hard headed and he should step down before more blood shed arises.Friday is dooms day for him.
post #134 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

Mubarek is hard headed and he should step down before more blood shed arises.Friday is dooms day for him.

I think you're right.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #135 of 289
So Mubarak tried the nice way (read: duplicitous way) now he has to show his true face.

Violence at Cairo Protests
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #136 of 289
King Tut Artifact Damaged During Egypt Protests
Quote:
...Around 1,000 people scaled the walls on the museums eastern side on Friday, according to Zahi Hawass, secretary general of the Supreme Council of Antiquities.
They went into the Late Period gallery, but when they found no gold, they broke thirteen vitrines and threw the antiquities on the floor, Hawass said on his blog.
The looters then entered Tutankhamuns galleries and opened one case.
The criminals found a statue of the king on a panther, broke it, and threw it on the floor, he said.....
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #137 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

So Mubarak tried the nice way (read: duplicitous way) now he has to show his true face.

Violence at Cairo Protests

Situation heating up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12351831

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ys-future.html



Military caught in the middle...sooner or later they will take action...either pro or anti Mubarak
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #138 of 289
It's really been a sight to behold the defense of the square. Bravo! Now new pro democracy supporters are rushing in.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #139 of 289
Seg, c-span's Washington Journal is live right now, it's three hours long, either radio or video stream.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #140 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Seg, c-span's Washington Journal is live right now, it's three hours long, either radio or video stream.

Cool...can I get it in iTunes as a download?

I am still astonished at the lack of comment on the Egypt situation from some of our more rightist participants. It's a major world event and no thoughts about it at all...

I guess though it isn't really a major world event unless it happens in the US and/or involves something to do with Obama.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #141 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Cool...can I get it in iTunes as a download?

I am still astonished at the lack of comment on the Egypt situation from some of our more rightist participants. It's a major world event and no thoughts about it at all...

I guess though it isn't really a major world event unless it happens in the US and/or involves something to do with Obama.


I've never seen a podcast of it on iTunes or that much at all on iTunes for c-span. They do have some podcasts though- http://www.c-span.org/Podcasts/


The right here are much less interested in the rest of the world than the left, in part because so many of them are isolationist's in many ways. Did you notice how MJ1970 reacted to clean energy progress abroad in another thread here recently? It clearly annoyed him that we should consider how other countries tackle clean energy issues. Sad.

One has to wonder too how the right in the US feel about more liberty for muslims. How they feel about the US losing some of it's influence too, despite that liberty. It must scare a lot of them.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #142 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post


I am still astonished at the lack of comment on the Egypt situation from some of our more rightist participants. It's a major world event and no thoughts about it at all...



I for one want the best for the Egyptian people. Not what the Egyptian government nor the US government "says is best" but what the people of Egypt deem best for themselves.

I am neither right or left politically. I am Christian.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #143 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Just been listening to a commentator on the crisis and he brought up a point that has not been mentioned yet and which I think will have an impact: more than one third of the world's oil is transported through the Suez canal and in his opinion, if the Egyptian protests were to continue for another week this would possibly be affected and would lead to higher petrol prices worldwide which in turn - given other factors - may well lead to more dissent in other regions.

Seg - world oil usage is 88 million barrels a day, 2.5 million (3%) of that goes through the canal. Your commentator has "Fox News quality" data checkers.

My main concern is how to make money on this, any idea on which US arms dealer supplies the most weapons to Israel? The Muslim Brotherhood just announced that they will scrap the peace treaty with Israel if they get into power, and that the people should prepare for war with Israel. I think that I may buy some General Dynamics stock or something.

Right now I am short oil, oil storage is really high worldwide and when this blows over a bit we will get a big drop imho.

Edit - it looks like Obama might have banned weapon sales to Israel last spring. The tanks in the IDF on wikipedia are all old information, anyone know the likely corporate winner if Israel boosts its defense budget to prepare for war?
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post #144 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

I for one want the best for the Egyptian people. Not what the Egyptian government nor the US government "says is best" but what the people of Egypt deem best for themselves.

I am neither right or left politically. I am Christian.

Well said Fellows - I think this issue has brought Muslims and Christians together for once there. Is a good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Seg - world oil usage is 88 million barrels a day, 2.5 million (3%) of that goes through the canal. Your commentator has "Fox News quality" data checkers.

Ok...didn't know that....seems the commentator was a bit over the top then.

Quote:
My main concern is how to make money on this,

That's a joke right?

Quote:
The Muslim Brotherhood just announced that they will scrap the peace treaty with Israel if they get into power, and that the people should prepare for war with Israel.

I'm going to need a reference for that....expect a lot of that sort of BS in the coming days if the MB are in talks to form a Government.

There are certain parties who do not want such a result and they will spread propaganda. Our main concern should be hard facts.

Quote:
Edit - it looks like Obama might have banned weapon sales to Israel last spring. The tanks in the IDF on wikipedia are all old information, anyone know the likely corporate winner if Israel boosts its defense budget to prepare for war?

Not sure this is correct. Difficult to believe.

I think this 'prepare for war' talk is not so helpful personally. This should be a good thing for the Egyptian people and her neighbours...let's not try to rain on the parade and to be happy and optimistic until there's reason not to.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #145 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I think this 'prepare for war' talk is not so helpful personally. This should be a good thing for the Egyptian people and her neighbours...let's not try to rain on the parade and to be happy and optimistic until there's reason not to.

http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=206130

Its not me saying prepare for war, it is an Egyptian saying it to an Iranian newspaper - I am just trying to figure out how likely it is. If it is likely I will close my oil short and buy something else that goes up during wartime. I am absolutely not hoping for war, just trying to get an accurate idea of the state of the world.
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post #146 of 289
One other thing re the MB post above: I would suspect that this comes direct from Mubarak and his cohorts who are desperately playing any card to stay in power.

Of course it is also in Israel's interest (and the West in general) to give credence to these reports as the MB will do certain 'bad' things like lift the Gaza Strip blockade and generally not be a Western toady.

Interestingly, the MB is under fire from ISLAMISTS who are now opposing them.

Quote:
American commentators have called the Muslim Brothers "radical Islamists" and "a vital component of the enemy's assault force ... deeply hostile to the United States."

Al Qaeda's Ayman al-Zawahiri sneers at them for "lur[ing] thousands of young Muslim men into lines for elections ... instead of into the lines of jihad."

Jihadists loathe the Muslim Brotherhood (known in Arabic as al-Ikhwan al-Muslimeen) for rejecting global jihad and embracing democracy. These positions seem to make them moderates, the very thing the United States, short on allies in the Muslim world, seeks. But the Ikhwan also assails U.S. foreign policy, especially Washington's support for Israel, and questions linger about its actual commitment to the democratic process.

Council on Foreign Relations

And again:

Quote:
The Egyptian Brotherhood renounced violence years ago, but its relative moderation has made it the target of extreme vilification by more radical Islamists. Al Qaedas leaders, Osama bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri, started their political lives affiliated with the Brotherhood but both have denounced it for decades as too soft and a cats paw of Mubarak and America.

Link

The only link I could find reflecting something similar to your source was this one.

Which seems to ben extreme-right wing Islamophobic quasi-racist site (do you read these sites regularly btw?)

I post some of the comments here so people get the general flavour:

Quote:
God save Israel. I think they will soundly defeat anyone who comes against them, but there will be lots of casualties.

To Christopher Hitchens and his atheist friends: the Bible predicted this more than 2,000 years ago.

*****************************

The Muslim Brotherhood has Kabbal orgins under the guise of Freemasonary. The British seceret agent Mohammed Abdul Wahhab a fundamentalist. They would use heroin on recruits, then give these recurits food,women, music( sex ,drugs & rock-n-roll) essentially,then when they came down from the high,they were told they were in heaven,but, they must follow what the higher ups said to obtain this so called heaven. It was the first types of Mind Control.



*****************************

Yes, this time it is DEFINITELY the apocalypse, never mind that Israel has stood down a pan-Arab attack in 67 and 73. So before you quite your job to prepare for the rapture, read a book other than the Bible.


*****************************

The number one , card carrying, MB member (Obama) has aleady started a quiet war with Israel by isolating them and showing them the back door to OUR White House. Israel knows they are on their own for a while.


Love the one in italics!!!!!

Those are comedy gold....post your faves!!!!
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #147 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

do you read these sites regularly btw?

No, I just saw the quote on Google news. If war is unlikely, my oil short is probably safe. The 1973 war came within a hair's breadth of Israel nuking all of the arab capitals, they had 13 20 kiloton warheads loaded on planes ready to go.
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post #148 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=206130

Its not me saying prepare for war, it is an Egyptian saying it to an Iranian newspaper - I am just trying to figure out how likely it is. If it is likely I will close my oil short and buy something else that goes up during wartime. I am absolutely not hoping for war, just trying to get an accurate idea of the state of the world.

He is not significant in the MB...no power at all.

And why would he say it to Iran - the MB and Iran are sworn enemies. Which is why maybe Iran made it up....or Mubarak did.

If it were true then you would not have someone 'reportedly' saying it and not to an Iranian paper. The MB would announce it.

Or, if they wanted it kept quiet for duplicitous or propaganda purposes then it would not leak at all - certainly not from inside the MB. No way. They are not stupid.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #149 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

No, I just saw the quote on Google news. If war is unlikely, my oil short is probably safe. The 1973 war came within a hair's breadth of Israel nuking all of the arab capitals, they had 13 20 kiloton warheads loaded on planes ready to go.

I can't see a war. Really.

No-one wants it...or, if someone does (the MB say for arguments sake) then the people will go against them like they did Mubarak.

They want freedom and peace.

They won't swap Mubarak for a war with Israel where they inevitably lose and all die. They're not insane.

And they won't elect anyone who is.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #150 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

They're not insane.

When I read about the 1973 war, it seemed like Egyptians were insane. It was absolutely crazy for them to attack in 1973. What is different now?

They were also richer in 1973, Egypt had not reached peak oil, and the OPEC embargo pushed up the price of oil - now they are more desperate financially, and desperate people do crazy things.
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post #151 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

When I read about the 1973 war, it seemed like Egyptians were insane.

All wars are insane.

Iraq seems insane. Vietnam seems insane.

Quote:
It was absolutely crazy for them to attack in 1973. What is different now?

Interesting question....what do you think is different?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #152 of 289
Wow, posting doesn't get much more vile than it's just done here. It's not the first time either, so this time I'll just use the ignore feature. Good riddance.
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post #153 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Interesting question....what do you think is different?

Two differences - less money, more fear. More fear because they were soundly beaten in 1967 and 1973 - and the knowledge about Israel's nuclear weapons is more widespread.

But you are the one that thinks that Egypt won't go to war - why did they go to war in 1973? And what do you think makes it different this time so that "they won't go to war because they are not insane"? It seems to me that the 1973 war puts that statement into question. I'm not saying that the Egyptians are "more insane" than anybody else, just that wars happen and people are generally sane, so "they are not insane, so they won't go to war" seems a bit of a logical leap.
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post #154 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Two differences - less money, more fear. More fear because they were soundly beaten in 1967 and 1973 - and the knowledge about Israel's nuclear weapons is more widespread.

But you are the one that thinks that Egypt won't go to war - why did they go to war in 1973? And what do you think makes it different this time so that "they won't go to war because they are not insane"? It seems to me that the 1973 war puts that statement into question.

It's kind of difficult to explain...if you sincerely hold the views you seem to then I'm pretty sure there's nothing I could say that would explain it to you.

Put it another way: if you could understand the answer I'd normally give you already would and wouldn't ask the question or say the things you've been saying.

So I'll pass.

BUT - there is hope: wait a very short while and see what happens. If you turn out to be right then I'll come and find you and ask for more info about how you knew.

If you turn out to be wrong DON'T get back to me on it: just think about why you made the error and what other factors there were and what the actual situation turned out to be.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #155 of 289
seg - by being short oil I am betting on no war, I don't think we are on opposite sides of the issue. I just wanted to understand your reasons for thinking that there will be no war.
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post #156 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

seg - by being short oil I am betting on no war, I don't think we are on opposite sides of the issue. I just wanted to understand your reasons for thinking that there will be no war.

As I said: people want freedom. If you've observed the protesters in the last weeks in an objective way then you'd see they are not violent, fundies, Islamists or anti-Israel.

There might be elements of those in the groups but that is not the agenda.

Seems you are like one of those people saying as the Berlin Wall came down "Now there is a united Germany they will start invading Poland".
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #157 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

As I said: people want freedom. If you've observed the protesters in the last weeks in an objective way then you'd see they are not violent, fundies, Islamists or anti-Israel.

There might be elements of those in the groups but that is not the agenda.

Seems you are like one of those people saying as the Berlin Wall came down "Now there is a united Germany they will start invading Poland".

That isn't a good comparison at all. Germany in 1989 was way different from Germany in 1929 - are you saying that Egypt 1973 vs Egypt now is as big of a difference as Germany 1929 vs Germany 1989? Germany in 1929 was suffering from the great depression, the treaty of Versailles, and constant harassment from the French. Germany in 1989 was very rich.

None of the causes of WWII were present in 1989, while all of the causes of the 1973 war are still there imho. Actually, Egypt is in a much worse financial state now than it was in 1973, not the other way around like Germany.
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post #158 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

That isn't a good comparison at all. Germany in 1989 was way different from Germany in 1929 - are you saying that Egypt 1973 vs Egypt now is as big of a difference as Germany 1929 vs Germany 1989? Germany in 1929 was suffering from the great depression, the treaty of Versailles, and constant harassment from the French. Germany in 1989 was very rich.

None of the causes of WWII were present in 1989, while all of the causes of the 1973 war are still there imho. Actually, Egypt is in a much worse financial state now than it was in 1973, not the other way around like Germany.

Ok...I'll let someone else run with this for a while...if they can face it!!
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #159 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Ok...I'll let someone else run with this for a while...if they can face it!!

I'm just looking for a logical argument in favor of no war, you do have me mostly convinced. I just think that a big hunk of your argument is based on hope rather than hard evidence.
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post #160 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I'm just looking for a logical argument in favor of no war, you do have me mostly convinced. I just think that a big hunk of your argument is based on hope rather than hard evidence.

Ok...let's be clearer: why would think there would be war?

Did you think that of the protests in Tunisia?

Jordan?

Yemen?

Perhaps the rationale exists only in your own inner view and those of a like mind?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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