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Apple's share of tablet market slides to 77%, Android rises to 22% - Page 2

post #41 of 108
1/31/11 at 7:59am
This is just stupid.

When you create a market, and have 100%, and the market is an overwhelming success because of your creation, of course your 'market share' is going to slide. That's not failure, its part of success.

Failure would be decreasing sales, not percent of market. As far as I can tell, Apple is selling every tablet they can produce.
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post #42 of 108
1/31/11 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A recent analyst report claims that Apple is focusing on "thickness and anti-reflection, not resolution" for the next iPad.

Anti-reflection - that's good news, especially if it also comes to the iMac.
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post #43 of 108
1/31/11 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by massconn72 View Post

I would bet that the "slide" is a direct result of people wanting to now wait for the the second gen of the iPad. You would have to be a fool to buy the "old" one now. As much as a fool as to believe that sales have slipped for any other reason. One other thing, "figures don't lie, but liars can sure figure".

The "slide" is the result of going from no competitors to some competitors. If you have near 100% market share, you're going to lose market share if anyone enters the market and they are even remotely successful.

Your'e right that many people are probably holding out for an iPad2, but marketshare numbers are largely worthless anyway. The phone market is expanding, Apple is selling more and more iPhones. Who cares if they are outpaced by a group of manufacturers using Android? The tablet market is about to explode in size, who really cares what the percentages are right now anyway when the pie just keeps growing?

Sidenote: I bet WP7 will take a significant cut out of Android market share within two years. Right now Android has near 100% support from phone manufacturers without their own OS. As I said earlier, when you have close to 100% of a market, you will lose market share when a new entrant enters the market and doesn't fail. Once again though, market share numbers are largely meaningless when markets are growing. Fanboys of whoever has the lead just like to brag about them like the mean something.
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post #44 of 108
1/31/11 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

i am absolutely not interested in another 10" device. ipad is the best and i have one, but, i am going to buy a 7" pad of some type and since apple still thinks no one wants a tablet between 5 and 7 inches it will have to be android based.

Why would you pay the same price for 55% less screen?

10 inch screen prices for a less than half size 7 inch form factor, effectively a huge cellphone.
What are you going to carry a smartphone and a HUGE smartphone around?
Don't get the 7 inch form factor and never will. Not much gain in real estate for the a major loss of portability.
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post #45 of 108
1/31/11 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

"The reason we [won't] make a 7-inch tablet isn't because we don't want to hit that price point, it's because we think the screen is too small to express the software," Jobs said on Monday's quarterly earnings conference call. "As a software driven company we think about the software strategies first."

didn't hurt iphone sales though...

I've also wanted a smaller model (roughly 7"), and complained loudly when Apple came out with a ten inch one instead. However it seems to me now that if I had such a device (Tab sized but Apple design and quality), it would replace my iPhone as well.

At the moment there are things I do on my iPhone, (email, Twitter, Facebook, watching videos or TV, listening to music), that are damned awkward to do on the iPad. Some of them are things that really should *never* be on the iPad IMO. For instance, walking around holding an iPad in your hands with an earplug in listening to music makes you look like a colossal idiot IMO. You can't put it down and you can't put it in your pocket.

So while I hope that someday we will see something like an "iPad pro" that is small, pocketable like the Tab, and basically replaces both the current iPad and the current iPhone in one device, it no longer bothers me that the iPad isn't that device today. I wouldn't give up my iPhone for anything at the moment, or my iPad. and I think the case for the seven inch iPad only makes sense if it would replace both of these devices in one unit.
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post #46 of 108
1/31/11 at 8:33am
Awesome.

Looks like my quasi-day job as technical support for friends and family is about to get a shot in the arm.

"This is Aunt Milly. I can't find a Solitaire app; there are all these different stores and some of them want my credit card information AND social security number!"
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post #47 of 108
1/31/11 at 8:43am
I expect this to be just like the phone market. Android is will have the majority of the market share. Apple will have the majority of the profits.
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post #48 of 108
1/31/11 at 8:47am
Interesting:

Samsung Exec: Galaxy Tab Sales Are "Quite Small"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Samsun....html?x=0&.v=1
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #49 of 108
1/31/11 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Interesting:

Samsung Exec: Galaxy Tab Sales Are "Quite Small"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Samsun....html?x=0&.v=1

was going to post that.

Samsun rep said:

“Well, your question was on sell-in and sell-out. As you heard, our sell-in was quite aggressive and this first quarterly result was quite, you know, fourth-quarter unit [figure] was around two million. Then, in terms of sell-out, we also believe it was quite small. We believe, as the introduction of new device, it was required to have consumers invest in the device. So therefore, even though sell-out wasn’t as fast as we expected, we still believe sell-out was quite OK.”
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post #50 of 108
1/31/11 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I've also wanted a smaller model (roughly 7"), and complained loudly when Apple came out with a ten inch one instead. However it seems to me now that if I had such a device (Tab sized but Apple design and quality), it would replace my iPhone as well.

Me too but after handling the Galaxy Tab and the Nook (prefer the Nook due to price) 7" is still too damn big to stick in a pocket or hold listening to music. 5" like the Dell might be better tweener so a 5" iPod Touch might be nice...especially with 3g data service.

Haven't actually held the Dell Streak though but it's gotta be more portable than the tab.
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post #51 of 108
1/31/11 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

was going to post that.


“Well, your question was on sell-in and sell-out. As you heard, our sell-in was quite aggressive and this first quarterly result was quite, you know, fourth-quarter unit [figure] was around two million. Then, in terms of sell-out, we also believe it was quite small. We believe, as the introduction of new device, it was required to have consumers invest in the device. So therefore, even though sell-out wasn’t as fast as we expected, we still believe sell-out was quite OK.”

Yeah!

AAPL +1.07%

GOOG +0.04%


The following was all over the financial networks this AM:

I wonder if we'll see a correction or retraction


Android gains 22 pct tablet market share - analyst

Quote:

On Monday 31 January 2011, 16:22 SGT
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Google Inc's Android software won a 22 percent share of the tablet computer market in the fourth quarter, biting at the heels of Apple Inc's iPad, which still has a massive market lead.

Research firm Strategy Analytics said Apple's share of the global market for tablets fell to 75 percent in the fourth quarter from 95 percent in the third quarter while the overall market increased 120 percent to almost 10 million units.

The Galaxy tablet from Samsung Electronics was the main competitor to iPad in the quarter as it was on sale in dozens of countries, according to the research firm.

Samsung has said it sold 2 million Galaxy tablets in the last three months, still putting it far behind Apple, which sold more than 7 million iPads in the last quarter. It was not immediately clear whether both companies were referring to the exact same time period.

Strategy Analytics expects Android to increase its tablet market share further in the first half of this year as new devices such as the Xoom from Motorola Mobility are expected to go on sale during that time.

However, Canada's Research In Motion will add yet more competition to the burgeoning market when it launches its PlayBook tablet toward the end of this quarter.

The United States was the biggest tablet market by far in the fourth quarter, Strategy Analytics said.

(Reporting by Sinead Carew)


http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/And....html?x=0&.v=2
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #52 of 108
1/31/11 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Samsung 'sold' 2 million? Where's the evidence? (Please don't post links to stories saying 'shipped.')


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Samsun....html?x=0&.v=1
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post #53 of 108
1/31/11 at 9:33am
Regarding channel stuffing vs actual sales to (what are they called again?... oh yeah) customers.

http://www.9to5mac.com/49950/samsung...ill#more-49950

Quote:
So to the story (source WSJ via Business Insider): “On the earnings call with analysts, Samsung VP Lee Young-hee said sales were “quite small.”"
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post #54 of 108
1/31/11 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

"Apple's share of tablet market slides to 77%, Android rises to 22%"

I neither see the word 'yearly' nor 'quarterly' in that sentence. But I see the word quarter in the following sentence. The article neither explicitly says that the numbers are for the whole year nor does it say that they are for the last quarter only.
For you it implied that they were for the whole year since it contrasted the 95% number (which was a yearly, or to be precise the year up to September, number) with this new undefined 77% number.
For others it might have implied, using the word quarter in the second sentence, that this 77% number is a quarterly number.
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post #55 of 108
1/31/11 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Interesting:

Samsung Exec: Galaxy Tab Sales Are "Quite Small"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Samsun....html?x=0&.v=1

Ok, I got here a bit late. I was scanning the posts to see if anyone had picked that article up yet.

So, Samsung has 2 million units in the channel, but just a few in consumers hands. I believe that Apple's numbers are sold to end user figures.

The problem with some of the numbers given out by the companies that do the analysis is that they have to accept what is given, and they do their work before the exact meaning of the numbers is given out.

So, exactly how many Tabs have been sold? 100 thousand? 200 thousand? 500 thousand?

This looks like MS's way of giving numbers for WP7 sales. No actual sales numbers, just numbers of those in the channel, waiting to be sold. Never a good sign.

Here's another version of the article.

http://www.businessinsider.com/samsu...-small-2011-1q
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post #56 of 108
1/31/11 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

...
Also, on another note...I noticed when talking about computers, Apple market share is usually compared to the market share of individual Windows box builders like Dell or HP. However when talking about phones or tablets, Apple's market share is usually compared to another mobile OS, not to companies that are selling the devices. i.e., iOS vs Android. Why is that?

-kpluck

Simpliest reason is if you compare sales number of iPhone to that of other individual phones, or that of any other individual company's smartphone portfolio, there's no competition. iPhone numbers simply dwarf each and every one of them. Only when you combine ALL android products that it gets comparable.
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post #57 of 108
1/31/11 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Samsung 'sold' 2 million? Where's the evidence? (Please don't post links to stories saying 'shipped.')

Mac Rumors has an interesting quote on sell vs shipped,

"Pressed by an analyst at an investment bank, the Samsung executive, Lee Young-hee, acknowledged that sales to consumers were "quite small," though she didn't give a specific number."
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post #58 of 108
1/31/11 at 9:55am
NOT! The REAL story on Galaxy S:

The research firm data is bogus. While samsung had a sell-in (i.e. channel sales) of 2M, it would not admit its actual sell-out figures the actual sales to customers.


Heres the snippet:
Well, your question was on sell-in and sell-out. As you heard, our sell-in was quite aggressive and this first quarterly result was quite, you know, fourth-quarter unit [figure] was around two million. Then, in terms of sell-out, we also believe it was quite small. We believe, as the introduction of new device, it was required to have consumers invest in the device. So therefore, even though sell-out wasnt as fast as we expected, we still believe sell-out was quite OK.

Bottom line here: As expected, the only viable threat to the iPad on the market today has hardly made a dent.


http://biz.yahoo.com/siliconalley/11...1_id.html?.v=1
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post #59 of 108
1/31/11 at 10:00am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

I believe Apple determined that MOST consumers prefer a larger-sized screen, not that NO CONSUMER wanted 7" tablets. We'll see if what size display most consumers choose in 2011. There will be other factors such as price that may pull consumers to a smaller display. You'd likely need to do a poll to determine what size display consumers prefer.

My 10 incher is way better than you piddley 7 incher, not only is mine larger and has bigger girth the end users actually use the thing. And it gives them the complete experience and begging for more.

Yours paaaahhhh , have you seen anyone gettin any satisfaction from a small one - really?
Not only is it overpriced but many users look at it and laugh at it's size and it remains in the store collecting dust.

Not only that - a new one is coming out soon with a extra strong vibration setting, your piddley 7inch excuse has no chance

Even Jobs said so...

har har
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post #60 of 108
1/31/11 at 10:09am
Galaxy Tab sales figures are not to end-users.

http://www.electronista.com/articles...r.than.claims/

What took so long for this to come to light? This approach to inflating sales figures is old hat. Shame on the "news" media.
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post #61 of 108
1/31/11 at 10:13am
Those Galaxy Tab numbers look HUGE given what the device is (even if that's just devices shipped). I'd love to see it broken down by territory. I suspect it was a big seller in Korea and Korea only.

EDIT: I didn't see page 2 of this discussion before posting. The article should be updated since it says "sales" and not shipped. As it stands it's completely false. Apple likely still has 90+% market share and it sounds like Samsung has a lot of Tabs in inventory that aren't going anywhere.
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post #62 of 108
1/31/11 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennywse View Post

OMG ... the world is coming to an end!

Relax. Apple isn't selling any fewer iPads. The numbers are a ratio of Apple to Android tablets. The ratio is bound to change as more Android tablets reach the market.
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post #63 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:02am
Not only that, but they are confusing 'shipped' with 'sold'. Apple sells the majority of it's products directly to consumers, either through it's stores or website.

Everybody else goes through regular distribution channels.

And right now, those channels are stuffed to the gills with Android tablets.
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post #64 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turley Muller View Post

You missed his point. He is raising the issue of shipments versus sales to end-users, or sell-through. Samsung has never giving figures for sell-through, yet Apple gives both. In the case of Samsung, it's a very important point since all Samsung's sales are to resellers opposed to Apple's direct sales.

The Galaxy Tab is available in 100 countries on 200+ carriers. Therefore, most of the 2M units was just channel fill, no real evidence of strong-sell though. The resellers might have to take a bath if they can't sell off their stock. There is already evidence this might be happening due to the recent price cuts for the Samsung Tablet.

In short, Samsung could report 2M unit sales without a single one being purchased by a end consumer.

That is unfortunately true and the news media and blogs almost always report the numbers as if the products are in the end user's hands when it is possible that most is sitting in inventory somewhere. The media seldom attempts to verify how many of the number reported as sold have actually been sold to end users.
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post #65 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:21am
We have to undertand the problems the media has. If they ask questions that are too pointed, and that suggest that the company is lying, or concealing what is happening because it would reflect poorly on the company, the reporter might never again be allowed to ask a question, or be asked to an event. That may extend to the media outlet they work for. So they have to be careful in what they ask, and how they phrase their questions.
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post #66 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Samsung 'sold' 2 million? Where's the evidence? (Please don't post links to stories saying 'shipped.')

Samsung just admitted during their quarterly report press onference that the December 1-million number and the January 2-million number did not represent actual "sales" but "shipments" to telcos and retailers. They even admitted that actual sales were "quite small."

So much for the basis for the entire analysis...
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post #67 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

We have to undertand the problems the media has. If they ask questions that are too pointed, and that suggest that the company is lying, or concealing what is happening because it would reflect poorly on the company, the reporter might never again be allowed to ask a question, or be asked to an event. That may extend to the media outlet they work for. So they have to be careful in what they ask, and how they phrase their questions.

Well, except that if most of the media hadn't become spineless sycophants, none of them would have this problem. The tough questions would get asked, and answered, because companies and politicians wouldn't have the option to just call on the guys lobbing softballs. Imagine if reporters had cowered like they do today at the time of Watergate. But, yes, a big part of the problem is that there really isn't any independent media left in this country.
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post #68 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, except that if most of the media hadn't become spineless sycophants, none of them would have this problem. The tough questions would get asked, and answered, because companies and politicians wouldn't have the option to just call on the guys lobbing softballs. Imagine if reporters had cowered like they do today at the time of Watergate. But, yes, a big part of the problem is that there really isn't any independent media left in this country.

And I'm sure that in the company you work for, you're always the first to jump in with major criticisms, in meetings, of the way the boss is running things.
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post #69 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:44am
The APple sales are also channel sales, people. Except that Apple sales had 2-3 weeks channel only. The channel for Samsung ( the amount left unsold divided by sales per day) is probably way higher. That wasn't asked, I am guessing.
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post #70 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:46am
I call bullsh*t on these numbers. Talk to any salesperson at an electronics store (best buy, etc) they'll tell you apple outsells this galaxy tab 50 to 1.
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post #71 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:48am
Apparently, the Samsung numbers are fake: http://www.ankleskater.com/pagemaker...20110131144100. See also http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2011/01/...od=rss_WSJBlog

Take away these fake sales, Apple is over 90% in market share again.
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post #72 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

The APple sales are also channel sales, people. Except that Apple sales had 2-3 weeks channel only. The channel for Samsung ( the amount left unsold divided by sales per day) is probably way higher. That wasn't asked, I am guessing.

Apple has said numerous times that they count sales as those in the users hands.
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post #73 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

And I'm sure that in the company you work for, you're always the first to jump in with major criticisms, in meetings, of the way the boss is running things.

Your analogy is invalid, unless you think the reporters work for the companies and politicians they are reporting on. (Well, in some cases they do, but there are almost always other reporters present who don't) But, yes, I am usually the first to jump in with criticisms at work when I think we're making a mistake. And you're right, it doesn't always win you points with the boss and doesn't necessarily lead to job security.
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post #74 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:49am
Update: It is important to note that these figures reflect shipments into the sales channels, as is typically reported by manufacturers, not necessarily sales to consumers. And as reported by The Wall Street Journal, many of the Samsung Galaxy Tab units that make up the lion's share of Android's numbers for the quarter may not have made it into consumers' hands.
In early December, Samsung announced it had sold 1 million, declaring that sales were going "faster than expected." Then, in early January, Samsung announced sales of 2 million.

But during the company's quarterly earnings call on Friday, a Samsung executive revealed those figures don't represent actual sales to consumers. Instead, they are the number of Galaxy Tab devices that Samsung has shipped to wireless companies and retailers around the world since product's formal introduction in late September.

Pressed by an analyst at an investment bank, the Samsung executive, Lee Young-hee, acknowledged that sales to consumers were "quite small," though she didn't give a specific number.
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post #75 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Your analogy is invalid, unless you think the reporters work for the companies and politicians they are reporting on. (Well, in some cases they do, but there are almost always other reporters present who don't) But, yes, I am usually the first to jump in with criticisms at work when I think we're making a mistake. And you're right, it doesn't always win you points with the boss and doesn't necessarily lead to job security.

It's that last sentence I'm referring to. Unless all news outlets get together and agree to ask the same tough questions at the same event, it ain't gonna happen. while I'm sure you offer some criticism of what's happening in your company. You would never ask the boss anything really embarrassing. You certainly wouldn't ask something that would lead to his, or her getting angry.

I had a policy in my companies that encouraged criticisms, but people are afraid to say much.
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post #76 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:56am
People, please, before posting the same thing almost everyone else just posted, read a page or so back. Enough people are reporting the same thing here to sink a ship.
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post #77 of 108
1/31/11 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

The APple sales are also channel sales, people. Except that Apple sales had 2-3 weeks channel only. The channel for Samsung ( the amount left unsold divided by sales per day) is probably way higher. That wasn't asked, I am guessing.

Apple has always stated the number of units sold and then immediately afterwards gives the number remaining in the channel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsMike View Post

Update: It is important to note that these figures reflect shipments into the sales channels, as is typically reported by manufacturers, not necessarily sales to consumers. And as reported by The Wall Street Journal, many of the Samsung Galaxy Tab units that make up the lion's share of Android's numbers for the quarter may not have made it into consumers' hands.

Shhh. Don't tell the fAndroids that!

Makes you wonder though how many Android phones are actually in the channel vs. in users' hands? None of them sell direct to customers, most go through a carrier, so the only true metric would be those from the carriers.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #78 of 108
1/31/11 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's that last sentence I'm referring to. Unless all news outlets get together and agree to ask the same tough questions at the same event, it ain't gonna happen. while I'm sure you offer some criticism of what's happening in your company. You would never ask the boss anything really embarrassing. You certainly wouldn't ask something that would lead to his, or her getting angry.

Well, I can't claim I intended to make certain past bosses angry, but...
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post #79 of 108
1/31/11 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xt500n View Post

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Samsun....html?x=0&.v=1

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2011/01/...od=rss_WSJBlog

Only because it can not be repeated enough. This entire story is based on a lie. They have sold almost none.
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post #80 of 108
1/31/11 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

So, exactly how many Tabs have been sold? 100 thousand? 200 thousand? 500 thousand?

This looks like MS's way of giving numbers for WP7 sales. No actual sales numbers, just numbers of those in the channel, waiting to be sold. Never a good sign.

Actually Microsoft's numbers are even more off base than these. At least Samsung has actually shipped a product, Microsoft counts licenses sold. And that's all that really matters to Microsoft anyway.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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