Netgear CEO rails on Apple's Steve Jobs, praises Android - Page 4

Why doesn´t this CEO write an iOS app to configure Netgear routers (in a friendly way)? That whould give him some revenue and let him see the light at last.....

Jobs will soon be gone? I nominate Lo for the CEO Humanity Award. This is not about political correctness, it's just human decency. If I am ever in a situation where I have a choice between a Netgear product and another, Netgear will not get my money. His employees deserve better than this.

Your comment is ignorant. Comparing the consumer crap they make with a professional line is a broken comparison. If your experience is real than it also illustrates a basic disrespect by Netgear for the non-professional Netgear user. Personally, I'm not a fan of their office targeted gear either, it falls apart way too easily and every switch needs duct tape to keep the power brick plug connected. The damn things fall out on their own from everyday building vibration -- that's shoddy design.

Maybe you engage your brain before rattling off when you already advertise you don't know what you are speaking of. You would have been far better off just leaving it with the last sentence of your second paragraph.

Glad you identify how the applicants can judge the hirer. It is always good to remember you are interviewing the company as much as they are interviewing you. Some companies reflect the personality of their CEO, and Netgear is one I would be leery of given this last set of CEO comments.

Almost all CEOs are ego-mainiacs. Jobs makes their performances look like dog crap at a salary of $1/yr. so it hurts their feelings. I can see them at board of directors meetings getting reamed about their salary vs. performance. The response?

"Apple is a fad that won't last. Wait and see. Meanwhile, continue to pay me a gajillion $ because I am so darn smart."

Pathetic, really. You'd think they'd be smart enough not to draw additional attention to their own performance.

Are you sure Kindle doesn't use the Apple framework for in-app purchases? If it does you would be completely without any point whatsoever. If Kindle rewrites a section of the purchase code because it is not using the framework today, but will in the future you would still be all wet and without a moral high ground. And apps that are on the Android store can be on the iOS App Store if they are written for iOS and follow the developer guidelines. Just because an app can show up on Android doesn't mean there is some automagical means of preventing the developer from coding for iOS and following the dev guidelines. If a dev doesn't want to follow the guidelines that's fine too, but then it's the devs choice to forgo a market opportunity.

Don't get baited. That was screamingfist, our resident troll who has found a very liberal set of mods and admins so he's well dug in.

Is this why OS X seems to only fall victim to the Security Professionals for big prize contests, but real world Android phone users have downloaded privacy information harvesting apps? Or downloaded remote controlled bot malware?

Yes there are some security issues in OS X, I'm not saying it's completely immune, but Android has already shown itself in less than two years on the market to be real world exploited with some regularity. Hardly a wonderful track record of security virtue, and the polar opposite of your point.

Exactly - cheap plastic looks and 2 antennas won't "make the cake" when the software that runs his boxes is crap. I had one and had to reset the thing on a regular bases: all devices connected to the box but couldn't get to the outside - the browsers were stuck! 2 to 3 days after the reset the same thing! Replaced it with an Airport Extreme 2 years ago and never had problems. Though my coffee shop and a router at my company show the same symptoms - today. Both are Netgear. Yes - I paid twice the money but it was worth it lots more.

These two quotes I think are key as to why Apple has climbed back to the top and why they don't have to lower themselves to the level of almost everyone else in the industry to sell products: they actually spend the money and time (R&D) required to design products that people love and want to buy. As opposed to having to undercut and/or partner with other companies to force your product to be bundled with theirs (and then hoping that people just don't care enough to look for something better).

Until these companies stop trying to outsource and cut production corners at every level, they will be forced to use these tactics, and to envy companies like Apple who have won the hearts of customers (not just forced them to settle for mediocre products). I dream of a day where top notch hardware and software designers are valued as much as executives in tech companies (and hopefully more than executives like this guy).

Without the Linux kernel GNU would be dead in the water with no viable operating system. All they would have is re-appropriated BSD unix code. The BSD guys would shrug and go on their way and everyone else would use their stuff, rather than the GNU stuff, due to the viral licensing restrictions. But because Linux is far better staffed with regular contributors that actively push and extend the platform it rightly has ascended past the traditional unixes and users are quite comfortable with the GPL2 that Linus has posted his code under.

Without that active Linux community, there isn't anything compelling to build on compared to the rest of what's out there. GNU would be just another license, with far harsher terms for consumers of code, and that would lead to irrelevance.

You guys are a bunch of fanbois. Lo said a bunch of sensible reasons why Apple won't have its profit base forever. Would I buy an Android based iPad? Sure. Will a quality Android piece come out? Yes it will.

Apple has about 3 years of gravy for each new invention. Steve Jobs is medically ill. When he dies... which is medically likely, if you examine the facts... Apple's innovation magic and marketing self censorship also die.

AAPL today is priced like they own the telephone business, the music business and the mobile app business combined. None of this is true. Generics will catch up. A couple of years late, but they will catch up. Would I rather pay $199 for an iPad, sure. The Chinese will back Lenovo so hard, Apple will forget what street its bank is on.

I do not understand the anger directed at Patrick's rant.

From macs to iphones, i've been an Apple guy for a long, long time. But i will not buy an iPad until it allows me to control my own content without having to go through that unspeakable thing called iTunes.

It became obvious to me that the main reason why there is no card reader on the iPad afterall, is that, once the mass storage interface implemented (how else can a card reader work properly?), this would give the user a file system on a card and make the device usable outside the "iTunes ecosystem". Protecting Apple's mark-ups on device flash storage is only a secondary reason.

Anyway, why be so harsh on critics? Most of my (non-mac) friends absolutely hate that iTunes they have to use with their ipods, iphones, ipads. iTunes is the only Apple software for the pc that they have seen. I am convinced that the (justified) negative perception of iTunes damages Apple's mac prospects long term.

Although I agree Netgear guy has no clue, I would caution against using history as a predictor of the future. Thats RIM strategy and we all know how well that is working.

History is great at showing us what to avoid doing, but isn't very good at telling us what we should do. That is to say, what worked in the past won't always work in the future.

If Linux is so great and so superior, and free, as in free beer, why oh why isn't it in complete utter domination of the market???

No myths there, just cold hard facts baby. Free and equivalent should beat expensive and equivalent every time. But Linux isn't beating Windows at all, and OS X hasn't gone away either even hough it is supposedly so expensive and only available on "overpriced" hardware. That leads all logic to the conclusion that Linux is free, but it is most definitely not equivalent to the commercial desktop OSes.

As naked server hardware it's damn hard to beat Linux, it's very good, stable and fast in that arena. Exactly what's needed there and that arena is supported by dedicated professionals that require a lot of training and experience to get top performance and reliability from the server farms. And while that's all good on the professional server side of the house, it says nothing wonderful about the non-professional server side of the market.

In other words, GNU's Not Linux, either.

I think that is what he would like to happen. But that view really seems at odds with what is actually happening to Apple and the industry.

Apple are succeeding by creating hardware and software together. By controlling both, it is able to create unique products with a very refined user experience. It's expressed by the statement that if you are serious about software, you have to be serious about hardware.

The rest of the electronics industry is very reluctant to accept this. Instead they favour the model of outsourcing their software production to Microsoft and Google. So we have software companies limiting the rate of innovation for the entire industry. And hardware manufacturers who are unable to distinguish their products from the crowd.

The result of this model is an inevitable race to the bottom. Because in a market where all products are generic clones, the only way to win is in volume.

We often hear how the mobile space will follow the same story as the personal computer. But clearly people are not looking too closely at what is happening in PC land. Apple's PC sales are increasing. And Apple is (probably) the most profitable PC manufacturer. If you look at HP and Dell, they are struggling to make $15 of profit on each PC sold.

There certainly will be cheap generic tablets, phones and PCs.
There already are. But you can be certain that the makers will not be making any profit.

C.

Is it because you are the SA for a large design firm, or that your are running a blended Mac/PC environment that your case is authoritative in regards to your Netgear driven network. I have only supported (briefly) one Netgear commercial network and it was a cluster in the worst sense of the term. Almost all of the rest of the networks I've supported have been Cisco-driven, both reliable and robust almost uniformly without significant issue.

But since you don't know anything about the consumer side, why would you address the previous comment as being ignorant when your own experience mirrors the flip side of that commenter's experience? In turn your comment for the consumer side equipment is, as you so pithily put it, "ignorant, nothing more, nothing less".

Well said, and especially this. Attempting to recreate Microsoft's model of dominance is effectively impossible. Believing that it is possible requires a case of amnesia about the set of circumstances which led to it in the first place. First, it required a set hardware standard, which IBM created, and then lost. Android does not have any hardware reference. Second, it required an OS with a sense of inevitability behind it. This Microsoft had but Google does not, and even if they can acquire the latter, they will never get the former.

In short, the tablet market is a wide open field -- inherently unlike the PC market of the '80s which was dominated and locked down from the start. The best products, not the inevitable ones, have the opportunity to win.

I never said the Mac has more market share than Linux; both are still pennies. I just said that the "open" strategy hasn't proven successful in the desktop/consumer space. Microsoft won, mind you.

In the mean time, we are all glad you will stay happily debugging your toolkits and kernels in the command line, content to be able to freely modify to your own needs each and every application you get. I personally don't miss computing of 30 years ago. We have come this far...

"What's the reason for him to trash Flash? There's no reason other than ego," Lo remarked.

If Lo devoted as much attention to history as to his vitriol, he would know that it was Adobe's staff who started the mud slinging, rabble rousing, and complaint filing in petulant reaction to the iPhone and iPad excluding the obsolescent, proprietary, inefficient and security-issued software that is Flash. Jobs was forced to respond to the uproar that Adobe chose to orchestrate in a public arena.

The market demonstrates that those same issues are not significantly near as relevant for the average user. You and your group of friends may not be typical of the vast group of purchasers for whom the ecosystem is friendly enough and useable enough to let them do what they wish. Apparently you only read the bits of Lo's commentary with which you agree, and missed the the huge dump of "CE-Oh no he didn't" in his commentary.

Just because a BOD votes you into the role of CEO, doesn't mean you are well-equiped to handle providing public commentary about highly successful and profitable other companies. I mean, look at the routine number of doofus comments that have been delivered by the RIM co-CEOs, by Nokia's former CEO, Michael Dell, Steve "the iPhone will never sell" Balmer, and even on occasion Jobs has delivered a faux pas in public commentary.

Netgear is a manufacturer of low end(garbage) products..should keep his mouth shut and improve his company

I'm just curious -- why are you so excited for a world where mediocrity and imitation are valued above innovation and quality? Is it simply because your investment portfolio sits in such companies?

GNU isn't a license.
OS X isn't called 'XNU'
why? you go figure it out.

where would FSF be without linux? good chance not as far along as they are now but who knows, they could have picked up some bsd and kept chuggin right along, maybe even using parts of darwin. who knows? why does it matter? you don't want to give credit to hard work done by programmers other than linus?
linus has done some good stuff and so have others. you seem to hate stallman yet love jobs. what has jobs done that is so worth praise? made lots of money?
jobs would be selling suits or used cars if he hadn't of met wozniak.

Right. Because NetGear was going to usher in a new era in mobile computing, lol. Or for that matter, Android.

If the success of the iPod proves anything, it's that Patrick Lo is sometimes wrong. Giving customers what they want is the key to success. And by the way, the last NetGear router I bought was defective out of the box, so I returned it and got an Apple AirPort Extreme instead. Best decision ever, Patrick.

This is an embarrassing thing for anyone to have put to record, let alone the CEO of a company like Netgear. I'm sorry, but I can't take any such rant seriously when it comes from the CEO of a company that manufactures cheap, unreliable consumer devices. And their enterprise offerings are just poorly executed, gussied-up consumer hardware with all the latest acronyms and none of the reliability or configurability of real business-grade players like Cisco, Q-Logic, HP, EdgeCore, etc. It's like Linksys putting the Cisco name on their WRT series. It's still just a consumer router ...

iOS has been adopted or is in the process of being adopted in 88 of the Fortune 100 companies. What's Androids count, since he mentioned it? How many articles have we read on this site about Android not living up to expectations, not attracting enough developers, not being adopted by as many phones / enterprises as originally hoped for? Honestly his rant just seems ignorant of the mobile computing market, which is no surprise since his company has no mobile computer offerings of any kind. What's the reason to trash Flash, he asks? Jobs posted a whole massive letter detailing the whole deal. Seemed pretty well thought out and founded in actual business and software concerns. Kinda exactly opposite to the degree of preparation you can see behind Lo's words.

Sounds to me like a fanboy in the wrong direction, he just hates 'cause he's decided to hate. What's that called? Notafanboy? He's a APL notafanboy and no manner of iOS success and Android failure is going to change his mind!

Well rawr it up Lo, get your 15 minutes of fame. Looking forward to the day you lose footing in the consumer market and your enterprise line can no longer keep you afloat.

EDIT: It seems several of my points were already brought up, sorry about that, and good points all.

Wozniak would be an anonymous HP engineer he hadn't met Jobs.
Apple would have been long gone if Jobs hadn't returned to Apple a decade ago and brought NeXTSTEP with him.
The talented animators and artists at Pixar would be toiling away at who knows where instead of pursuing the dream of pioneering computer-animated feature films.

What has Jobs done that is so worth praise? How about everything that's not engineering needed to bring great products to market? Apparently it is a skill that you underappreciate. Anybody can run Apple, right John Sculley? Right Gil Amelio?

So here's a guy whose company generates sales of less than ONE ONE-HUNDREDTH of Apple's - an also-ran in its business segment - who makes expansive pronouncements about the guy who's built the world's largest tech sector company in terms of market cap. Who's kidding who about ego? His remarks equate to the old joke about the pissant crawling up the elephant's leg with rape on its mind.

Or maybe it's the venue - Australia - or jet leg. Invective is a particular pastime in Australia, as is "having a wank."

"Jobs returned to his previous job at Atari and was given the task of creating a circuit board for the game Breakout. According to Atari founder Nolan Bushnell, Atari had offered US$100 for each chip that was eliminated in the machine. Jobs had little interest or knowledge in circuit board design and made a deal with Wozniak to split the bonus evenly between them if Wozniak could minimize the number of chips. Much to the amazement of Atari, Wozniak reduced the number of chips by 50, a design so tight that it was impossible to reproduce on an assembly line. At the time, Jobs told Wozniak that Atari had only given them $700 (instead of the actual $5000) and that Wozniak's share was thus $350.[38][39][40][41][42][43]" - from wikipedia

he's a clever piece of work. will give him that. nice how he f***** his own best(?) friend around even back then.

Love it!!

George

"Steve would not give him a minute."
Steve is right.

iTunes is just a sync tool. In what way do you "not control" your content? I assume you are not talking about piracy (but if you were, the obvious answer is jailbreak).

Apple's iTunes model is the same as a retailer.

I usually don't buy my music from iTunes, I buy it from Amazon and I buy my books directly from Audible.com instead of through the iTunes store and I get my video fix via Netflix. So why is this guy ranting about iTunes not being open enough? The only part about it that's really closed is the Apps Store but that's because it's tightly tied to the iPhone/iPod/iPad. If I use a different power supply with a Netgear router will they still honor the warranty?

Interesting slur. I suppose because S Jobs is an American, we can gloat about our national cleverness. Copying is exactly what Toyota did to Chevrolet and Rover in about 1965. my investment portfolio is a whole lot of both Asia and too much AAPL. This thread is mostly face slapping an executive because he's not S Jobs. Well we're all not. He probably did ok in life. He's predicting future events, not making a summary of present events every third grader knows. It's a worthwhile thought exercise to imagine Apples magic will end. Magic always does end. You can browbeat him for saying that, but in time, open source will effectively replicate all aspects of AAPL's innovations of 2005-2010. How long can the magic last... More years. But the rest of world isnt all idiots. They will make good phones and tablets too. Shockingly good. Apples rise was predicated on imaginative thinking. Their fall, too, will not be what all the bozos out there expect. Analysts were wrong about AAPL in 2001 and they are just as stupid today, endlessly repeating sound bytes about AAPL having a secure market. Their business is mostly younger than some of my underwear. It won't endure without a ton of good luck and superhuman levels of prudence. Keep in mind, 10 years ago everybody thought GE could do no wrong.

No class at all

In what way were either VHS or Windows ever open? VHS was just a tape format that was supported by a different band of manufacturers then BetaMax which was pushed by Sony. How did that benefit anyone other then those manufacturers?

Microsoft simply stole anyone elses ideas for its own use. Windows is a closed proprietary piece of crap. If it is so great why doesn't his company use that for its emedded OS? I've always used Netgear, but all those products are just made in China crap, so I guess in the future I'll buy one that just steals all its ideas from Netgear.

Finally, a like-minded person on the forum. I've been trumpeting Apple's disregard or neglect of it's professional users for a while now. Falls on deaf ears here unfortunately. Most of the forum users here are just market parasites - checking in before they option - making muny while offering zero value... Hey, just like their comments

Anyways, i'm in agreement with you on all points. It's the difference between real life experience and Apple lala land everything is wonderful and magical.

I don't want to see people who didn't do Linus's hard work steal credit for it by prepending something on to 'Linux' that distorts reality. It's "Linux". There is no such thing as "GNU Linux". (And "GNU/Linux" is equally dishonest.)