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Netgear CEO rails on Apple's Steve Jobs, praises Android - Page 2

post #41 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:03am
I don't get the point of opening up iTunes. Open it up to developers? That is nonsense. Open it up to their competitors? Amazon and others have their own content systems. Sure Wal-Mart should open up their content distribution system so that Target can sell in their stores. Opening up iTunes would be like opening up Apple's brick and mortar stores so that Compaq can sell their goods there. iTunes is not the only place you can go to to buy music, movies, software and tv shows. The fact that so many people choose to buy there says something about the iTunes store compared to the others.
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post #42 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranReloaded View Post

He's spot on. We all know how successful Linux has been, don't we?

Linux (and that's correctly without the "GNU" prefix) is quite successful as a server platform. As a desktop platform, however, it's at least 10-15 years behind the "closed" alternatives.
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post #43 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipaq View Post

I don't get the point of opening up iTunes. Open it up to developers? That is nonsense. Open it up to their competitors? Amazon and others have their own content systems. Sure Wal-Mart should open up their content distribution system so that Target can sell in their stores. Opening up iTunes would be like opening up Apple's brick and mortar stores so that Compaq can sell their goods there. iTunes is not the only place you can go to to buy music, movies, software and tv shows. The fact that so many people choose to buy there says something about the iTunes store compared to the others.

Amazon and other content systems are illegal under clause 11.2 of the in-app purchasing guidelines. They may be in there, but - unless Apple change that clause - they will be kicked out eventually. Similarly with any content provider who has a separate website.

Since Lo did deal with that in his speech it would be worth talking about.
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post #44 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:06am
How low can you go. It's not very sensitive to say all this at a time when Steve Jobs is home on sickleave and cannot defend himself (if he would want to, which I doubt).
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post #45 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eideard View Post

Sounds like someone I wouldn't hire. His sense of reason is stuck in a non sequitur.

Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out his idea of open & closed cause the definition is somewhat hazy to me. He probably just bought an iPhone & tried to jailbreak it, bricking it in the process.

He conveniently ignores many other examples of closed systems that have been very successful. It's easy to find examples to support your argument, it's getting people to ignore the glaring arguments against that is hard.
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post #46 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

What they dont like is being forced to pay a ransom to Apple for content purchasing they could provide themselves. The 30% on in-app purchases for content bought through iTunes makes sense for small distributors with no web presence. For other distributors it is an extortionate racket - a price for doing business in Apple's neighborhood with no value added by Apple.

Apple does add value. Apple has created a new venue for consuming content. Content publishers, such as magazines/books etc haven't developed anything new in the sense that it's the same content they create in print and on their websites. However, the experience between web content and what can be done in an iOS app is huge.

I expect Apple to come up with a more reasonable solution however.
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post #47 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Linux (and that's correctly without the "GNU" prefix) is quite successful as a server platform. As a desktop platform, however, it's at least 10-15 years behind the "closed" alternatives.

Don't forget it makes up a good number of platforms for devices like CCTV mpeg encoders to mp3 player platforms. Linux is far more widespread than people really know, possibly even more widely used than Windows.
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post #48 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:17am
Patrick who?
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post #49 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turley Muller View Post

Apple does add value. Apple has created a new venue for consuming content. Content publishers, such as magazines/books etc haven't developed anything new in the sense that it's the same content they create in print and on their websites. However, the experience between web content and what can be done in an iOS app is huge.

I expect Apple to come up with a more reasonable solution however.

No value whatsoever. Imagine a web site which streams movies. Or sells books as PDFS. Or sells music online. Or photos. Whatever. Digital content. It builds an app to allow pre-exiting customers to see their content on an app rather than online ( for movies that would be essential because flash is not available).

Apple sees that as in contravention of 11.2

Apps utilizing a system other than the In App Purchase API (IAP) to purchase content, functionality, or services in an app will be rejected

That is, the very existence of a website is in violation of 11.2. ( As would be the existence of the app on other platforms were the app on other platforms to allow purchasing content which could also turn up on the iPad app).

This either forces people to either rebuy the same stuff in the app again, or pull the app.

What are Apple providing for this?

They dont store the content, nor do the streaming or downloading. They dont own the content. It is merely extortion to stay on the platform.
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post #50 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

I had a Netgear router once. It looked like a children's bath toy and never worked properly with my Macs.

Everyone knows Jobs has an ego the size of a planet. Given the success of Apple in the last 10 years, as either an Apple consumer or shareholder, you'd have to be pleased. This is needless bleating by someone no one even knows.

I am a system administrator for a large design agency that uses about 80% Macs for design and general productivity and 20% Windows machines for CAD and 3D.

All our routers are Netgear. Of all the network makers that are not Cisco or HP, Netgear's devices are by far the best. Extremely robust and reliable. Never had a failure in 8 years. That's Netgear's professional line up, and home devices may be different, I don't know.

Your comment is ignorant, nothing more, nothing less.
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post #51 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:24am
And I care what Netgear's CEO thinks about apple why exactly? I didn't even know his name until this article.
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post #52 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Which looks like Android, extrapolating. I hope it isn't, but it looks like.

What they dont like is being forced to pay a ransom to Apple for content purchasing they could provide themselves. The 30% on in-app purchases for content bought through iTunes makes sense for small distributors with no web presence. For other distributors it is an extortionate racket - a price for doing business in Apple's neighborhood with no value added by Apple.

Hmmm... so when you buy software from a shop, or an online merchant, you don't think they take their %??

30% will prove to be a bargain if it increases net profit for any developer. If it doesn't work, expect Apple to shave its % because I don't think it will give up on the App Store idea itself, since this fits right in with its strategy of making everything as simple as it can be FOR THE CUSTOMER.

No value added by Apple? I think you cannot possibly have ever been involved in tracking users and their updates... solving this one problem is worth 10% on its own.
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post #53 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eideard View Post

Sounds like someone I wouldn't hire. His sense of reason is stuck in a non sequitur.

You wouldn't be able to, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't hire you either as mindless zealotry does not go down well at job interviews.
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post #54 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Linux (and that's correctly without the "GNU" prefix) is quite successful as a server platform. As a desktop platform, however, it's at least 10-15 years behind the "closed" alternatives.

10 to 15 years? how do you get that number? as a desktop, unless you want to site some specific app, it ain't that far behind windows or os x.
-posted using chromium running on ubuntu 10.04. the mac has been retired and windows is just a vm under virtualbox that gets fired up when i have to.

i don't know of anyone running 'linux' that doesn't involve the 'GNU' prefix. its difficult to make use of it just on its own.
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post #55 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turley Muller View Post

... Apple has created a new venue for consuming content......

Pity they're all but killing their own market for producing said content at the same time.
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post #56 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:30am
theolein writes:

"All our routers are Netgear. Of all the network makers that are not Cisco or HP, Netgear's devices are by far the best. Extremely robust and reliable. Never had a failure in 8 years. That's Netgear's professional line up, and home devices may be different, I don't know."


So what you're saying is Netgear are 3rd best, after Cisco and HP. You may well be right.

On Mr. Lo's whinge about Apple being a closed solution, one must point out that even if Netgear kit is as good as you say, one thing it is NOT, however, is OPEN. Ever tried to modify their firmware? Or the configuration app? Or is it OK to be CLOSED when you're Netgear, but not when you're Apple?
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post #57 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steftheref View Post

Hmmm... so when you buy software from a shop, or an online merchant, you don't think they take their %??

30% will prove to be a bargain if it increases net profit for any developer. If it doesn't work, expect Apple to shave its % because I don't think it will give up on the App Store idea itself, since this fits right in with its strategy of making everything as simple as it can be FOR THE CUSTOMER.

No value added by Apple? I think you cannot possibly have ever been involved in tracking users and their updates... solving this one problem is worth 10% on its own.

I dont think you understood a word i said. The apps I am talking about track their own users, and do their own fulfilment. In fact using Apple's model stops them from doing that since Apple does not release the user information. Besides all that the in-app purchasing forces pricing models which are not what people want.

However all that is moot because if you buy something on the Android app, or online, it cant appear on the iPad app because that is in contravention of 11.2 anyway. There is no business model there. Apps which seem to violate this rule ( i.e. Kindle) have gotten a bye. There are rumours that Apple have demanded compliance by June.

Unless something better comes up, most content providers will move to Android. Blood is already bad.
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post #58 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

No value whatsoever. Imagine a web site which streams movies. Or sells books as PDFS. Or sells music online. Or photos. Whatever. Digital content. It builds an app to allow pre-exiting customers to see their content on an app rather than online ( for movies that would be essential because flash is not available).

Apple sees that as in contravention of 11.2

Apps utilizing a system other than the In App Purchase API (IAP) to purchase content, functionality, or services in an app will be rejected

That is, the very existence of a website is in violation of 11.2. ( As would be the existence of the app on other platforms were the app on other platforms to allow purchasing content which could also turn up on the iPad app).

This either forces people to either rebuy the same stuff in the app again, or pull the app.

What are Apple providing for this?

They dont store the content, nor do the streaming or downloading. They dont own the content. It is merely extortion to stay on the platform.

I agree if you interpret it that way, but that would mean nearly every app violates Apple
s policy, so NYT, WSJ, Financial Times, Sirius, NetFlix, Barron's, basically everything should be kicked out. I highly doubt Apple would ever do that.

I don't think it's fair to call it extortion when Apple hasn't enforced that policy. When they do, then fine, but I don't see that happening. Without all those apps Apple would have a hard time selling it's iOS devices, which brought in about $18 billion last quarter. The money generated from the iTunes is peanuts. Wouldn't make sense to risk device sales for such a small potential gain.
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post #59 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

As in very much? As in, Safari is based on a Linux Web Browser?
Mac OS X being Open, as is stated on the Apple Website (though, however, not Open Source), I'd call BS on your comment.

I call BS on his vague use of "open", and I was talking about desktop, mind you.
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post #60 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:42am
I still use a Netgear router to connect to the internet, but it's just in dumb-mode and all the local network admin is done by my Airport Extreme, which is much easier to administer.

When the Netgear breaks, I won't be buying another one. Nor will I recommend them to anyone.
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post #61 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:43am
Steve Jobs, despite all the criticism, is a leader and an innovator. Apple is where it is today largely due to his vision. As such, it is an innovative company and technology leader.

NetGear (including Mr. Lo, et al) is, has been, and always will be, nothing more than a follower. Strange how followers are (almost) never criticized; they travel with the herd and take no risks, present no target, and are no threat. 'Nuf said.
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post #62 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by enjourni View Post

And I care what Netgear's CEO thinks about apple why exactly? I didn't even know his name until this article.

You are very well informed. I wasn't even aware of NetGear the company.
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post #63 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:44am
Why do we even bother giving this person any press? We all know that Apple has been wrong about everything these last few years and Netgear has been right. What? Apple has a 60 Billion Dollar savings account! Netgear? No doubt Apple continues to be wrong and Netgear is right.
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post #64 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by theolein View Post

Pity they're all but killing their own market for producing said content at the same time.

Nonsense.

There is no evidence that musical and video creativity is being stifled. Quite the contrary. The self-serving propaganda coming out of the movie and recording industry that 'piracy' is killing creativity is disproven by the facts. What the digital age is doing is killing off their previous monopoly on distribution. They'll just have to find new business models if they want to continue in business, just as Netflix, Apple TV, Google TV etc will force cinemaplex's to rethink their business models.
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post #65 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whozown View Post

Who??

Exactly!... that was my first thought... who the hell is Patrick Lo and why should I care.

I wouldn't keep a guy like this in my company.
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post #66 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:50am
I'm sorry, but who is Netgear?
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post #67 of 226
1/31/11 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

i had 2 netgear devices. both were junk and i will never buy anything from that brand again. but lets not call them out for looking like childrens bath toys. the early i products especially looked like disneyland and playskool designed it and os x still looks like that.

Are you kidding? Okay, I will grant you that the original iMac design is very toy-like now, but please let's not forget that this was released over 13 years ago. By today's standards it is pretty whimsical looking, but at the time was a revolutionary design. You can;t judge a 13+ year old design against a unibody MacBook Pro...it's a totally different tech world now (thanks to Apple).

As for OS X, I take issue with your comments. It in no way looks like Playskool. OS X has always been several steps ahead of windows in both form and function, and Windows 7 is the only thing MS has done that narrowed the gap to any real degree. And what are they basing Windows 7 on? Obviously an OS X-like experience is what they are trying to achieve. They have been chasing Apple for years for good reason, and finally have found some conceptual success.

You can argue that linux is the best for tasks x,y, and z, and I give it alot of credit for being free and open source, etc. But as for a commercially available OSes, Mac OS X is still the leader in the industry. I was going to end by saying that someday MS may come up with an OS that bests OS X, and theoretically they could...but it would really take a paradigm shift in their product philosophy. I just don't see it happening. Maybe if they canned Ballmer and got a real CEO in there.
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post #68 of 226
1/31/11 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steftheref View Post

Nonsense.

There is no evidence that musical and video creativity is being stifled. Quite the contrary. The self-serving propaganda coming out of the movie and recording industry that 'piracy' is killing creativity is disproven by the facts. What the digital age is doing is killing off their previous monopoly on distribution. They'll just have to find new business models if they want to continue in business, just as Netflix, Apple TV, Google TV etc will force cinemaplex's to rethink their business models.

I was talking about Apple killing off its professional market, the ones who produce the content that the rest are consuming. As of today you can no longer buy an XServe as Apple no longer sells them. There is no replacement (and in production houses, replacing rack mounted redundant machines with Mac Pros or Mac Minis is not possible or realistic). I was talking about how Apple is neglecting its professional software (FCP Studio, FCP Server, XSan) to such an extent that Adobe's software is now much, much better and, to top that, really does run better on Windows.

Apple is making a killing off consumer devices which are really good and provide a seamless experience, but Android will eventually eat up much of that market, leaving Apple with no core of loyal professionals that it had back when Macs were only popular amongst creative professional users.
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post #69 of 226
1/31/11 at 7:07am
1. If Netgear is such a strong supporter of open systems, then why do they have a warning even on their "OpenSource Router" that says "Opening the router housing or putting in any customer software on the router will void the warranty on your router" ( ftp://downloads.netgear.com/files/kw...urce_guide.pdf ). Their equipment is as closed as they can be under the GPL they are bound to for using software such as parts of the Linux Kernel. Netgear products are about as closed as Apple products, sure you can mod either, but both companies try to keep people from doing so by threatening to not support the product after a software mod.

2. If he doesn't like something about Apple Inc, that is fine, but there is no reason to personally attack Steve Jobs. Although Steve does have a lot of influence, he isn't the only one making decisions or policies at Apple. The logic behind equating Apple Inc to Steve Jobs is flawed. Attacking an individual based on their employer is distasteful.
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post #70 of 226
1/31/11 at 7:08am
And in other news Paris Hilton gives acting advice to Meryl Streep.

C.
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post #71 of 226
1/31/11 at 7:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Which looks like Android, extrapolating. I hope it isn't, but it looks like.



What they dont like is being forced to pay a ransom to Apple for content purchasing they could provide themselves. The 30% on in-app purchases for content bought through iTunes makes sense for small distributors with no web presence. For other distributors it is an extortionate racket - a price for doing business in Apple's neighborhood with no value added by Apple.

So if Apple adds no value and therefore should not get a cut of the profits, then why do some of these higher end developers decide to put up with the extortion and sell through iTunes?

Lets talk it out and see...

Does selling in iTunes get them a lot of additional consumer eyes on their product? Yes
And does this then increase their sales? Yes
Do customers want, and in some cases need, an easy portal to access software and updates? Yes
Is administering their own sales and maintaining a web presence of their own time consuming and sometimes cost-prohibitive? Yes

So after all that, I'm thinking that there definitely is added value there or these developers wouldn't do it. I guess from there you might say that you agree with the added value, but that it is disproportionate with the cut Apple is taking? This could be true, but I think it would be on a case-by-case basis. Some developers probably feel the benefits outweigh the downsides, and others may not. If they feel they are still disadvantaged, then maybe iTunes isn't the right place for them.
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post #72 of 226
1/31/11 at 7:13am
What a moron, it's not always about market share, it's about making money. Thank god the app store doesn't look nothing like the Android market. If android is so open why do carriers and OEMs have to hold on updates before releasing it to the public. Why does the Android community has to rely on a bunch of kids on the net for updates.
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post #73 of 226
1/31/11 at 7:17am
In discussion open, does this mean that I can download a copy of netgear router code on the net and make modifications?
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post #74 of 226
1/31/11 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

10 to 15 years? how do you get that number? as a desktop, unless you want to site some specific app, it ain't that far behind windows or os x.
-posted using chromium running on ubuntu 10.04. the mac has been retired and windows is just a vm under virtualbox that gets fired up when i have to.

i don't know of anyone running 'linux' that doesn't involve the 'GNU' prefix. its difficult to make use of it just on its own.

I work on Mac, Windows and Linux desktops, and "primitive". "ugly" & "awkward" are the three words that come to mind in comparing Linux to the other two. I'm not a big fan of Windows, but even XP is way ahead of the Linux desktop interface. As I said, it's a great server OS, but the desktop UI simply sucks in comparison to the alternatives.

And, since LT rejects the "GNU" label, it's inappropriate to apply it to Linux. Prefixing Linux with "GNU" is just another attempt by free software advocates to appropriate and take credit for intellectual property that doesn't belong to them.
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post #75 of 226
1/31/11 at 7:18am
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post #76 of 226
1/31/11 at 7:19am
While I agree with your general point, I have a quibble here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulesLt View Post

Equally, by the same logic, Unix should have succeeded, and Windows failed (well, actually that is what's happening now) - especially as Windows was locked down to one, inferior, CPU architecture, rather than the multiple platforms supported by Unix.

Windows NT supported multiple CPUs including x86, Alpha, MIPS, and PowerPC. But those RISC configurations weren't big sellers so they were eventually dropped.
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post #77 of 226
1/31/11 at 7:33am
Here is why he is pissed:

NETGEAR makes 8 different connected streaming internet media dohickeys:
NETGEAR Roku Player
NeoTV 550 Ultimate HD Media Player
NeoTV 350 HD Media Player
DIGITAL ENTERTAINER LIVE
TV ADAPTER FOR INTEL WIRELESS DISPLAY
Push2TV HDTV ADAPTER FOR INTEL® WIRELESS DISPLAY
DIGITAL ENTERTAINER EXPRESS
DIGITAL ENTERTAINER ELITE

Apple makes the just one and gets a lot more attention and sales.

NETGEAR makes 19 different wireless routers, while Apple makes just 3.
No one could care less about his crappy routers while Apple makes a metric buttload in the same market.

NETGEAR's "strategy" has been throw sh!t at the wall till something sticks.
Only problem is nothing is sticking.

Even Apple's worst product get more attention and sales than their best.
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post #78 of 226
1/31/11 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I work on Mac, Windows and Linux desktops, and "primitive". "ugly" & "awkward" are the three words that come to mind in comparing Linux to the other two. I'm not a big fan of Windows, but even XP is way ahead of the Linux desktop interface. As I said, it's a great server OS, but the desktop UI simply sucks in comparison to the alternatives.

And, since LT rejects the "GNU" label, it's inappropriate to apply it to Linux. Prefixing Linux with "GNU" is just another attempt by free software advocates to appropriate and take credit for intellectual property that doesn't belong to them.

LT can 'reject' the label since all he is interested in is the kernel. But unless you are talking about the linux kernel source code alone you are talking 'gnu/linux'. in fact it is Linus who is short changing all the work put into the gnu projects etc and those programmers whose work enable the linux kernel to actually be useful.
and if you doubt that then go and compile the linux source code without gcc. and good luck. i use the word 'linux' cuz most associate that with the entire package and its shorter to type...

the great thing about linux based distros is that you can configure your desktop to work like windows or os x if you choose to. are they as 'polished'? nope. are they 10-15 years behind in that regard? no. 2-3years? probably.
yes we give up certain candy to use linux distros but at least we get to choose and alter the candy we do want.
not saying linux is for everyone and everyone should ditch apple. the majority of apple users should keep on being apple users.
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post #79 of 226
1/31/11 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Here is why he is pissed:

I think you are right.

Apple offers very few product lines. But these give consumers complete solutions. Consumers don't need to leave Apple's orbit to get the stuff they want.

External vendors are used to making a living in the push and shove of free-for-all markets. Microsoft and Google, have no hardware of their own, and this creates commercial opportunities for these bottom feeding companies.

When Apple comes along, all they can do is press their faces up agains the glass and complain that its cold outside.

C
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post #80 of 226
1/31/11 at 7:39am
made comments so anyone search "apple" pulls up the sour grades ceo
that's the only way he or his company can get news

macdailynews did a good job making the case

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/we...omments/28452/
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