Apple's 4% mobile market share rakes in over half the industry's profit - Page 3

Far too late.


Yeah? The revenues would clearly have to be 4 times larger on the iPhone to justify the investment.

Apps are moving out of the bedroom. The decision will not be made by "developers" but by the people who hire developers. If they see 80%, they will spend money on designers and developers for that 80%.

In any case I see we have accepted 80% market share for the competition. Back to our happy clappy niche. Feeling special at the 20% level or less. Just bog all software.

Indeed. Quality is not about who assembles the product. It's much more about how it's been designed and the standards and quality assurance execution and enforcement all along the way.

...And every product made with steel contains iron ore off the same planet. Surely there is no way steel from company "A" could ever be better than steel from company "B", because the iron ore comes from the same mine.


Apple does mostly use the same suppliers and assemblers, but in case you were unaware, there are varying quality differences that come from the same factories and assembly lines. Apple pays more to make sure the parts they get are at the higher end of that quality spectrum.

Apple also puts a lot of money into working with companies to design and produce different manufacturing techniques, using different materials, etc. Apple works with these companies to guarantee the part being manufactured is up to Apple's specs and needs.

They do not buy predesigned, pre-engineered components and assemble them in a box to make a product as you seem to suggest.

Its not bullshit. Apple isnt even the best way example of looking at quality Its easier to look at Dell or HP to see how quality can affect the price. You can find machines with basically the same performance that have wildly different costs due to construction, drivers and the quality of the components, even though they seem identical to other components when looking at a simple spec list.

Since Apple was brought up Ill use them since I dont have the time or interest in doing an extensive cross-compartive of Dell or HP products.

Displays
Apple doesnt use the highest PPI that can be found on the market today, but when they do offer are brighter backlights and higher quality TN TFT panels compared to their competition.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3991/a...nch-reviewed/5 Trackpad
Most notebooks use a trackpad, but that doesnt make them equal. Apples trackpad is more sensitive and more accurate than any Ive seen on notebooks. Simply having that word on a checklist doesnt make them equal. Apple use of glass over the trackpad keeps it feeling and looking good after excessive use.

On top of that, they have drivers that work. This is an area where many vendors (and users) completely ignore the concept of quality. Take the HP Envys. They employed the huge, multi-touch trackpad but it was repeatedly reviewed as unusable, that youd have to use an external mouse to feasibly use the machine. Thats crazy, thats not quality! I assume they made this somewhat better in future updates, but this was a shipping model with a complete lack of quality in the trackpad drivers. I dont recall Apple having that issue with their first multi-touch trackpads.

OS
AnandTech has also repeatedly tested machines for their usage on a single charge. Apples products win. Even on the Macs with Bootcamp running Mac OS X bests Windows. How is this not a sign of quality?

Customer Service
I never feel like Im taking a risk when buying an Apple product. Ill even spend a little extra in their stores for 3rd-party products because I know if there is an issue all CE will be fualty for someone, somewhere they will deal with it in a way I appreciate. They dont even care if you bought it online or at a different B&M store, which is something Ive had issue with in the past with other large retail chains. I think that is important a sign of quality.

Processors
This one isnt verifiable (and Im only throwing it in there because I think its interesting): there are many deep into the tech world that have suspected that Apple gets premium components within batches. Even items that are made on an assembly line and of the same model number are not the same. With something as complex as microprocessors its possible that power consumption, while still within spec, could be at the high-end. Its suspected that Apple is buying the product that is consuming less power. Again, this cant be verified, its only been speculated, but if true its another aspect of quality that wont be noticed when looking at a model number.

Conclusion
How is this possible if Apple isnt focusing on the quality of their products?

It's funny that regardless of what metric Apple is measured by, they are always doomed to fail if they don't change.

As people have stated, if Apple's wares are too expensive, then the consumers would stop buying them. That's not happening, the opposite is happening. Apple is selling more and more products every quarter. The only one that is declining is the iPod, but that's on the low end as half of all iPods sold are iPod Touches.

Cheaper will AWLAYS win out to those who don't place any real value in the product they are buying. This is true in any industry. A few that come to mind, sporting equipment, cookware, clothing, jewelry, electronics, musical instruments, etc.

It's very presumptuous for someone to think I'm not getting my money's worth on a purchase I made. I really think that is for me to decide, not you.

Thank you for reinforcing my point.

I am always amazed that some here seem to think that NO ONE at Apple has ever heard of "price elasticity of demand". As you say, Apple is obliged to maximize overall profits and I'm pretty sure they model this stuff carefully before attaching a price to a product.

But, you might as well give up because some will always believe that the best answer is for Apple to lower its prices.

These discussions always remind me of the "I Love Lucy" episode The Million-dollar Idea:
http://www.clown-ministry.com/index_...a_i_love_lucy/

And, the attempt to fix the problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu_2Hadt-s8

Maybe Apple should lower prices and then try to unsell some product.

Apple sets the prices.

The mobile companies run hand over fist to subsidise them which allows apple to control a larger share of the profit than most other phone companies

market pays the same price as any other phone.

Then why do you buy their products?

You seem to think you are one of the few on here who understands this; you are not.

Apple can and will address any perceived market stagnation. They might lower prices or they might add significant new features to maintain price.

Apple has chosen a model based on maximizing their profits. Many things beyond the cost of the phone are included in determining price (e.g., component supply and pricing, advertising, support costs). You seem to think your way would work better even though you are not privy to much (if any) of the information Apple has to help determine a pricing strategy. You need to stop pretending that you have anywhere near the necessary information to determine what makes the most sense for Apple.

For now, you sound like someone whose only solution to marketshare growth stagnation is to drop the price instead of considering other alternatives.

I found the entire episode on YouTube…

•

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez_dlcLDUyA (Part 1 of 3) edit:
I just realized this some similarities with The Producers, but predates the film by 15 years.

deleted

I doubt it. There are, after all, plenty of still "developing nations". I guess that ZTE can snatch them up and no one there would ever aspire to owning something better.



I am not consigning Apple to 20% share simply noting that the developers will go where the money is. If the average large developer is making $100k in the App Store but only $50k in the Android Marketplace, where would he put his first effort? If it were me, I'd go yo where the money is irrespective of the marketshare.

You are either a sadist or a bullshitter to have so much stated trouble ..... but continue to buy from same company .... my money is on bullshitter.

Truer words were never spoken .... unfortunately, presumptuous people seem to be in excessive supply around here ..... and low demand ....

Good post, well thought out and researched. ... extremeskater post? ... not so much.

deleted

So true. In fact, the rules would suggest that Apple is undercharging for iPhone because supply remains constrained. There is a supply shortfall which economics says Apple should eliminate by raising prices since increasing supply is not an instantaneous possibility.

Apart from the often overlooked iOS the platform that developers can target is NOT confined to the iPhone.

The smartphone market is not the only opportunity for iOS developers, it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Okay this wasn't what I was saying. People are using the BMW to Ford nonsense again without actually coming out and saying it.

Quality as far as fit and finish compared to a Tier 1 vendor that is fine but I find it interesting that many Apple users tend to bring up only Dell and HP.

I disagree 110% when it comes to Apple and drivers. I think Apple drives suck and what I hate the most is when Apple screws up their drivers you and I have to wait for Apple to fix them. Firmware is another good example. Apple has had more then one issue with iMac Gpu firmware that people have to wait months for Apple to fix.

In Windows if you have a driver problem you can simple go to the Nvidia or ATI site and download another driver. I have rarely if ever had driver issues in Windows and have never had the heat problems using a Windows system when Apple is known for heat issues.

Apple over they year has had more then its fair share of heat issues due to bad design and putting looks before function. To deny that is a joke.

Seeing we can't pull any real data on things like Trackpads and I think Asus makes pretty good ones lets talk about CPU's because I assume you are talking about CPU Stepping.

When you pay a reasonable price and use a good company when ordering a system you can make sure you get the Cpu Stepping you want you don't have to guess if Apple is getting some mystery advantage.

I'm actually getting into points that are boring to me to even debate.

The point I was trying to make was people make it sound as if Apple is using some special hardware that makes their products last longer. That is untrue. A product of equal cost will last as long as an Apple system if not longer.

I have Velocity Micro systems that I had built to order that are five years old and run as well as the day I got them. People on these forums want to compare a 2800.00 MBP to a 800.00 HP.

My points were about hardware not overall user experience and custormer support. I am fairly sure I made that clear in one of my other posts.

I buy and Apple computer because of the overall product not because I think the harddrive or ram is going to last much longer.

What's the profit from iPhone sales alone?

How can one make a chart about profit shares in smartphones when Apple doesn't even break down its profit for different products and services?

Dude, I read the support forums .... as well as the customer satisfaction reports from independent research companies. Really. ..... and guess what ... the overwhelming majority opinion is that Apple leads the way in design, quality and profits of most other computer manufacturers.

Customers also "vote with their wallet" and I'm sure your aware of the fact that, in an era where overall computer sales are, shall we say, "disappointing" ... Apple continues to have yoy increases ... quarter after quarter. Lastly, even as biased as you are, you just have to look at ebay and see the "used Apple product" that constantly holds it's value more than any of it's competitors ... something that people like you always seem to "forget to mention". Do yourself a favor and drop the argument about Apple hardware quality because you're just making yourself look more foolish each time out.

You have to choose examples that are understand to your audience. Using company and product that arent known or understood will hurt your argument. This is why the car analogy works so well, even if it is tired. Hell, its a tired argument because it works so well. Dell and HP are just well known companies that cover all a huge gamut of product types, even if most of all of their consumer products are poorly made.


Apple has plenty of aspects that arent the highest quality, the GPU drivers are a convenient example of that, but you stated that "Apple doesn't use anything that is any higher quality them most other companies and thats what I responded to.

All CE has issues. There are dozens of companies involved with all CE these days. Anyone of these pieces can go bad and affect the entire product. Using quality components or have more QC can help avoid it, but its no guarantee. Even today we got word of Intels chipset with a fault. Thats just a single chipset, not an entire machine.


Asus makes good quality machines. If I couldnt buy a Mac Id get something from Asus. Note they are a company that has been employed by Apple on several occasions to build the components they design.

They were one of the first to ship a MoBo with USB 3.0 using that Toshiba(?) USB 3.0 controller, which made me wonder if Apples next Mac releases would offer USB 3.0 MoBos designed by Apple, but built by Asus.


You wrote about quality, you didnt isolate it to only HW that is freely had by other vendors. Nearly all physical products can be had by other vendors, even the aluminium for the chassis.

What about the MBP batteries? Do most notebooks ship with Li-Poly-Ion batteries that can have 1000 charge cycle rating (before they get to 80%)? It seems to me most still use Li-Ion with less dense cells giving you a lower mAh for a giving volume.

This doesnt mean others cant offer these across the line like Apple does, its that they dont. Apples success really doesnt seem to be because they are smarter than the competition, instead it seems their success stems from Apple being focused on the long term, not quarter to quarter.


I compared to the HP Envys, but not because they are considerably more expensive but because the horrible trackpad was a good example of quality. The Envy is also a good example of quality compared to an average priced HP notebook . HP spent a lot more money to create a quieter, thinner machine. This type of shrinking its cheap and is more likely to have issues, which costs even more for QC. You cant stuff more into less space and have it be easier and cheaper to do.


I commented I posted on was about quality. It was ambiguous, but I think I covered all major areas of quality in my previous post. As for the longevity of Macs my experience is that they last longer, but anecdotal accounts arent going to be useful for this discussion.

There are also plenty of reports of resale value of Mac and that Macs are used longer than non-Mac PCs. The former is more about their desirability but also can be argued for their quality and the latter is likely an issue with Windows, vendor and 3rd-party apps making people think they need a new system when a clean system could resolve much of their woes, but that also points to quality or lack thereof from MS and vendors when it comes to coding.

No mate, he was just giving an accurate depiction of Apple's less than stellar design and QC.

Let me see.. My SE video and power boards both died. Both were badly designed and were known issues. The hard drive in my 15gb 3rd gen iPod died within 3 months. My Macbook 13" unibody wouldn't read or write dual layer discs, so I had to get a new drive on warranty, again, a known issue. The audio quality via the headphone socket is still lousy as it was they day it was purchased. I seriously wish I had returned it for a full refund but I needed it due to my Ti Powerbook having died. Oh yes, the hinges broke on that one, another known issue due to inadequate design. Way too highly stressed for a small component and the sort of thing I imagine wants to use liquid metal for. Oh, and eventually the CPU came unstuck from the MB

My Macbook also has the faulty design mag safe power connector so I may be on borrowed time with that. Must remember to get a fire extinguisher. AFAIK, Apple only did a recall of those in the US, tough shit if you don't live in the US, the usual Apple attitude. Speaking of which, my 3rd gen iPod battery never performed as claimed by apple and I had to replace it at my expense, again there was a recall/exchange in the US which wasn't extended overseas.

If it wasn't for OSX, I wouldn't buy another Apple computer but have eschewed all the iOS devices as there are good alternatives.

Man I am getting sick and tired in reading "I had a bad experience with product X and it is in no way better than product Y" Or product A is more expensive than B, and it shouldn't be.
There will always be situations where a Mac that was purchased has issues with it, and there will be situations where a Windows based computer will out last a Mac.
What is the point in arguing ?
The best point to bring across is that generally speaking Macs are built better, they last longer, they have better resale value, the UI experience is far too ahead to even make a comparison.
There will always be people who disagree, that is their choice, no point banging your head against the wall to try and turn them around, I have given up.
I chat with Windows users, if I feel that they are flexible in their attitudes, not ignorant and will gladly hear the other side of the story, then I will Mac shop with them, otherwise I won't even bother.
It seems that some people will never change, so no point in arguing with them.

Most people seems to think

In 2010 Android grew a 660% so this year will grown as well 660% but if you look at the second graph you dont see that kind of growth in the manufacturers.

Most of Android growth has came from the Samsung-Motorola-LG-SE builders of 28% of all phones transitioning from using Symbian-linux-WP6 to use Android, thats a one time deal.

If you look at the graph the only ones to grow Android market as a whole was the other category.

Apple has almost double its production and has verily keep with demand( some countries show the availability of iPhone 4 as late as october-november ), if you are selling all that you are able to build is absurd to reduce prices, Apple should began to think about reducing prices the year after the world roll out of iPhone ?? happend in 3 months.

deleted

Let see I went through 3 or 4 Dell laptop at work in the past 5 yrs until my company finally moved to HP. The HP is doing better than the Dell, however stupid little things went wrong but did not shut me down. My wife is on her 2nd or 3rd Dell laptop in 6 or 7 years. So yes I have direct experience with them and my Mac get as much of work out as my work computers that is for sure. The only reason for me to get rid of a mac is when I want the latest technology, however, usually I keep the old on since it still works fine and relegate it to some other use in the home

I have owned macs both for work and home since 84, and I can count on 1 hand how many time I had a "hardware" failure which required me to repair it or sending it to the local repair store. Besides that I have direct knowledge on what Apple does when they qualify a product. Also a friend I use to work with left Dell and he was responsible for all of Dell's testing and qualification testing of new product and he would tell you he left there because they really did not want to do what was really right. They always did a cost analysis on whether it was worth spending extra to make something better. The analysis was along as it failed out side of the warranty period that was good enough.

I know this is all opinions at best, if you want to put real $ and Cents around this, look up what Apple and many other companies put into their required warranty reserves and divide that by the number of products they ship each year and it will give you an idea what they expect will come back. The higher the cost per unit the worse it is. The problem with apple now is they ship more than computer so the numbers will be not paint an accurate picture. If you are looking to compare computers.

My brother's family uses a PC. They're on their fourth one in less than 7 years. Why? They gradually slow to a crawl. When they take them in to Best Buy for evaluation, it turns out it's cheaper just a buy a new one. Into the land fill it goes.

My father and I run Macs. My dad ran the same crusty old G4 tower for 6 years and only upgraded to a Mini because he wanted to run the latest iteration of OS X-- it was still running fine. Myself, I've owned a G4 Tower and a couple of MacBook Pros, and they're all still going strong. I use the last MacBook as a media server and the G4 is in mothballs.

My brother considered a Mac but decided it was too expensive. For the price of his multiple PCs he could have had several Macs.

Anecdotal, to be sure, but I suspect the "replace every 1 to 2 years" model is pretty prevalent in consumer PC land, and helps to obscure any troubling data regarding longevity and TCO. Also sells a lot of whatever the current Windows is licenses, so I suspect its an intentional model that benefits both MS and its hardware partners.

The great thing about the internet is that one can claim anything, with no accountability, no matter how unbelievable it is .... and it is unbelievable, to me at least, that any sane person would put up with the kind of repeated problems, that you both say you had, and still stick with the same company, so whether your stories are true or not and since we have no way to prove them .... I stand by my bullshit call.

What are you talking about. It's the higher quality that allows for higher prices/profit margins. Try charging more for crap and see how far you get.

Only if they charged the same price .... and they don't.

No, all you did was give a list as long as your arm of all the "problems" you've had with them .... sounds like a crap PC to me.

Last time I checked, no one had a monopoly on buying a Mac ... and since you don't know me ... you don't have a clue about how many Macs I may or may not have bought.

You know, there's not many degrees to separate a lie from exaggeration. You may want to restate this "fact".

Thanks, but if my day was any better ... I couldn't stand it. ....

Apple's component costs are not that much higher than the rest of the industry.
But it's prices are higher.

The reason for this is not superior components,
but a superior consumer experience.

This derives from
a) Better industrial design
b) Properly integrated software with fewer incompatibility issues
c) Good aftercare service

Together these elements offer create a perception of a better experience and better value for money. This is how Apple adds value.

The build cost of a Nokia N8 is pretty much the same as the iPhone 4.
But after a few months in the market. The market has repriced the N8. And it is selling for $200 less.

It's not hard to solder together $200 of parts and sell a product for $215.
The magic is taking $200 of parts and have the market tell you its worth $450. Your profit has gone up tenfold.

C.

First off, with me , you're "preaching to the converted". Having said that: IMHO, only people/bloggers and the like, with no experience at running a company, put any faith in the relationship between "build cost" and profits. That comparison "leaves out the cost of all of the rest of the "Apple Experience" ... from design and research .... all the way to the retail stores. That's why I get a kick of those sites that say .... "but look at the build cost ... the same as XYZ company but Apple are "ripping" us off with their "high margins" .....