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Piper: Apple's $3.9B component deal more evidence of Apple television

post #1 of 85
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Apple's recent investment of $3.9 billion in components is likely for device displays ranging from the iPhone to the 27-inch iMac, and could signal Apple's intention to build a television set up to 50 inches in size, investment firm Piper Jaffray believes.

Analyst Gene Munster issued a note to investors on Thursday in which he said recent meetings in Asia -- not with component suppliers -- suggested that Apple has put its secret $3.9 billion investment toward securing displays for its range of products. He said Apple is believed to be investing in manufacturing facilities and securing supply for LCD displays.

The analyst also said that the investment could further signal Apple's intention to enter the television market. Munster has believed for years that Apple will introduce its own HDTV by the end of calendar year 2012 at the earliest.

"While Apple's commitment to the living room remains a 'hobby,' we continue to believe the company will enter the TV market with a full focus, as an all-in-one Apple television could move the needle when connected TVs proliferate," Munster said.

He estimates that 220 million flat panel TVs will be sold in 2012, and 48 percent of those -- or 106 million -- will be Internet-connected. He sees Apple potentially selling 1.4 million units in 2012, which would add $2.5 billion in revenue, or 2 percent, to the company's bottom line.

Munster sees the TV business for Apple growing to 4 billion in revenue in calendar year 2013, and 6 billion in 2014. He said Apple's component investment, believed to be in displays, could allow Apple to procure screen sizes up to 50 inches.



The analyst also noted that Apple has highlighted display technology in the marketing of its products, including the iPhone 4 Retina Display, and the 27-inch iMac LED backlit display. Advanced display technology, Munster said, has become an important part of Apple's business strategy.

Last month, during his company's quarterly earnings report, Apple Chief Operating Officer Tim Cook hinted at his company's long-term component supply contracts, and revealed that the company had invested $3.9 billion. Cook said he felt the secret deals were a "fantastic" use of his company's massive cash reserves, but declined to reveal what the investment might be, because the strategic move is "competitive" in nature.

Cook compared the investment to 2005, when Apple made a major investment by prepaying for flash memory. That long-term deal helped Apple secure enough NAND flash to place it in nearly all of Apple's devices, including the iPhone, iPad and new MacBook Air.
post #2 of 85
Munster is on drugs.
post #3 of 85
not a chance.
post #4 of 85
If this prediction wasn't COMPLETELY MORONIC,
then it's just made to
create speculative margin..

So Douche !!!

ScumBag !!
post #5 of 85
The idiocy of this is beyond my comprehension.. Jobs has as much interest getting into a highly mature, commoditized money losing business such as TV (Panasonic can't ake money, Pioneeer couldnt make money with the best product) as he has in putting his body through the rigors of climbing Mt Everest without oxygen.

Munster has been flogging this TV angle for a while now and it makes zero sense. If Apple really wanted to crush their margins, they'd sell the iPad at 1/2 its price.
post #6 of 85
Loving all things apple, this is a win for me. In addition, i'd like to see ALL household appliances designed and made by apple....total integration.....itoaster, macrowave, macstove, ifridge. Then I just sit on my throne and control them all from my ipad. I will change my name to iGod.
post #7 of 85
Gene Munster is a retard. I'm surprised he still has a job.
post #8 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

not a chance.

Apple has a TV. Its called Apple TV. Why would Apple enter an industry where prcies fall 30% a year and no one has pricing power. By simply improving its Apple TC box, it can access millions without the investment.

Apple could go the route of licensing an embedded Apple TV to the market leaders.

Don't believe any of the manufactures are making money in TVs.

On the other hand Munster may have some "inside" info from a supplier. On the third hand, he could have just dreamed it.
post #9 of 85
Prediction: 3.9B will go to glassless 3d screens for next gen iPhones, iPods, and maybe iPads.
post #10 of 85
This is all wrong. Forget 3DTV. Apple is going straight to holograms.
post #11 of 85
It actually does make sense as long as Apple can produce a better experience than the rest of the market. The interface on most TVs is horrible. By completely integrating the AppleTV interface natively into a TV, you have simplified the TV process. No longer do you need a bunch of separate components and cables, you just need to plug the TV into power.

3D TV is a niche market, and by all accounts completely sucks right now. If Apple were to get in the game, they would have opportunity to make something that actually stands out in the crowd. The question is whether they have the technology to do it.

In competing with the rest of the market on TVs, there is a huge range of price/quality available for TVs out there. Apple would obviously fall into the high end of pricing and offer a high end product. It's pretty amazing how fugly some of the TVs are that make it to market.
post #12 of 85
You all may be right...but it would be nice.

As I've said before, I detest the current clunky TV interfaces. I would just love it if Apple made a super thin 50"-90" HDTV with AppleTV included.

Imagine an Apple 50" TV with only one cable attached, the power cord. No HDMI cables

My iMac has only the power cord coming out of it! (BT KB, TrackPad & MagicMouse) (No power brick)

My Brother all-in-one wifi printer has only the power cord coming out of it! (No power brick)

I try not buy any tech equipment that Apple does not make. I hate cables, power bricks that clutter up my home/office and look terrible too!

I sold my camera when I got an iPhone 4 and bought the TomTom GPS App (which I highly recommend!) instead of buying a stand alone GPS unit.



Best
post #13 of 85
There isn't even the slightest chance of Apple making a television set. There's no reason for it. They can accomplish all needs for the living room with AppleTV, in fact, they already have. It just needs Apps, and faster hardware, which is what iOS 5 and 2011 will be allllll about.
post #14 of 85
If they did do it...it would be an LED TV, right? Plasma and LCD are old technology where LED is the brightest, best picture and thinnest, newest tech, right?

I agree the tv companies were hoping 3D was going to be like "color" TV's were to BW TV's back in the olden days....3D looks like it has fizzled!

Best
post #15 of 85
the thing with these kind of predictions are, they can always claim that they might be right..... someday....
post #16 of 85
Even if Apple could make a spectacular set with ATV built in, you'd still have to pay for cable and deal with their dvr interfaces unless you were willing to give up that functionality. The only way I could envision this working, is if you were able to get apps on your tv that let you watch the programming you wanted. Channel apps for example. If you want ABC, pay for the ABC app, ESPN, pay for that app. It would be an extremely radical move as far as tv is concerned and would greatly benefit the consumer so it will never happen.

I guess we can all dream of a day where we only pay for the channels we want though.
post #17 of 85
I hope it's going towards new iMacs and displays with double the resolutions of todays i.e. ~ 200-220dpi. Apple won't have to worry about making the OS have resolution independent fonts and having to have all the applications rewrite there applications to work correctly. This way Apple just has to doubles there font sizes and along with it there sharpness. Application developers only have to worry about graphics like icons. It word be the same as going from the original iPhone to the Retina display iPhone.
post #18 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihxo View Post

the thing with these kind of predictions are, they can always claim that they might be right..... someday....

True ihxo. But Apple was slow to the Flash MP3 players and eventually took over that market in short order.

Slow to the smartphone market and slow to the tablet market and all cases came out with game changers.

I could see Apple wanting to have all their retail stores be "boutique' consumer electronic stores and in doing so "best" BestBuy!
post #19 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I don't see Apple getting into this but I would agree that if they ever did it would be LED. While Plasma is older there are some people that are really into this stuff that still swear by Plasma.

Plasma has its advantages in certain situations but alot of people like LCD and LED because of the brightness. Thats why when you go into the showroom the TV's are set so high you can pretty much get a tan form them.

Thanks for the answers extremeskater! LED it is then....now I just need Apple to make one!
post #20 of 85
Gee whiz guys, seriously ... it's moronic for anyone to say "Apple shouldn't or Apple has no reason to ..." etc. We've heard this all before and what happened?

remember when Apple had no good reason to sell an MP3 player?
remember when Apple had no good reason to sell a tablet computer?

think of a television running iOS with App Store/iTunes built-in and the ability to purchase/rent/download all types of media on a big ass screen ... you don't think that wouldn't be the next big thing on everybody's Christmas list?

Apple TV right now is still a "hobby" according to Jobs. But think what that might look like if Apple turned it's hobby into a real business. It ain't that hard to imagine really, just start connecting the dots.
post #21 of 85
i don't know anything about Munster. but an Apple HDTV with AppleTV built in makes plenty of sense. the HDTV is the ultimate home digital appliance and a logical part of any media ecosystem. Sony and the rest are trying to do the same thing, but they keep screwing it up by making it all too complicated and focused on their own flawed package of web services, or Google TV. and they don't offer all the pieces.

only Apple can, with its seamless iTunes/iOS ecosystem. the iPad with AirPlay makes a better remote control to use on the sofa (for things more complicated than changing channels) than any of the cumbersome hardware from Logitech and the rest. it is much easier to navigate the web on your handheld iPad sitting on the sofa than on a TV screen, and then beam the specific web media you want to the TV. and there will be apps to display too, one way or another.

it is not like Apple would be starting from scratch. Apple already makes a very good (overpriced) 27" computer monitor. add good speakers, a tuner or cablecard, AppleTV, and necessary ports and you quickly have a great product. it could be released this Fall, with bigger screens coming next year.

why would Apple do it? Besides protecting its established iOS/iTunes market, because the profit potential is so huge. At best Apple is making $20-$30 profit on each AppleTV. even if it sold 10 million, that would just be $1 billion in sales and maybe $300 million in profit. which is peanuts for Apple.

but 10 million sales of a $1500 TV would total $15 billion, and profit of $2-$3 billion. now that is real money.
post #22 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeysbistro View Post

Gee whiz guys, seriously ... it's moronic for anyone to say "Apple shouldn't or Apple has no reason to ..." etc. We've heard this all before and what happened?

remember when Apple had no good reason to sell an MP3 player?
remember when Apple had no good reason to sell a tablet computer?

think of a television running iOS with App Store/iTunes built-in and the ability to purcahse/download all types of media on a big ass screen ... you don't think that wouldn't be the next big thing on everybody's Christmas list?

Apple TV right now is still a "hobby" according to Jobs. But think what that might look like if Apple turned it's hobby into a real business. It ain't that hard to imagine really, just start connecting the dots.

You should trademark that name before Apple does, big ass screen or they will be using by next christmas!

BTW: I agree with everything you said except the "moronic" part.
post #23 of 85
Why would something with a big screen be a tv?

Tv should be one of many things you can do with a big living room screen, if present at all (broadcasting is such a needlessly serial and outdated way to spread content, but ok - everyone seems to keep wanting it).

It's funny how people react to the idea of Apple making a big screen device for the living room just the way they did when they heard about iPads, and iPods.
post #24 of 85
There is noway Apple would make television sets. Why would they want to jeopardize the image they have as a solid phone,Mac and music leader? If they have a bunch of people buy sets that suck compared to the leading TV makers, they will only pull down their whole image. Not a wise investment for Apple. Apple should invest in making the Itunes program part TV set like Netflix.

Plus, I am sure Apple will roll out apps for the Apple TV this year.
post #25 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by neckra View Post

There is noway Apple would make television sets. Why would they want to jeopardize the image they have as a solid phone,Mac and music leader? If they have a bunch of people buy sets that suck compared to the leading TV makers, they will only pull down their whole image. Not a wise investment for Apple. Apple should invest in making the Itunes program part TV set like Netflix.

Plus, I am sure Apple will roll out apps for the Apple TV this year.

Could be right. Apple did get out of the Printer business and camera business for the very reasons you site.

But I for one would like very much to simplify my home electronics. Get the largest, thinnest best picture Apple made TV with AppleTV built in. I hate components with their attendant cables, etc.

An iMac with the largest screen, currently 27", and the thinnest, lightest, smallest laptop, 11" MBA.

An iPhone 5 and the iPad 2 and I'm good to go. I could even see forgoing the iMac.

PS. Apple did remove the word "computer" from their corporate name...I think they want to be known as a superior consumer electronics company..which indeed they are.
post #26 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


Interesting, but no way in a million years is anyone going to pay "$50-$90" a month for an iTunes pass. Even if the iTunes pass could replace all other sources for the consumer, it wouldn't be worth that and in reality, one is still going to need the blu-ray player, and most of the other sources and the gear to support them.

Any "replace your current setup" solutions from Apple will pretty much have to replace *everything* and also be cheaper than any one individual component that's currently in use to catch on.
post #27 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by pridon View Post

Apple has a TV. Its called Apple TV. Why would Apple enter an industry where prcies fall 30% a year and no one has pricing power...

Also remember that the TV industry (e.g. monitors) is in terrible shape right now because the 'pig in the python' of flat screen conversion has largely completed. Thats the reason for the big push to convince people they need 3D TVs... to kick start TV sales.

Apple would be insane to get into that space consuming, low margin, support intensive business.
post #28 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98 View Post

Prediction: 3.9B will go to glassless 3d screens for next gen iPhones, iPods, and maybe iPads.

3D is a fad that you will be embarrassed to have supported a few years from now when it disappears again.

I'm old enough to remember the last time 3D was supposed to be in everyone's TV "next year" and major motion pictures were being released using the technology. I'm also old enough to remember being told about the time before that (when it was used for major motion picture releases and supposed to be on your TV "next year"), by my Mother.

Both times it never happened because it's basically just a tired old gimmick. It doesn't work because you need to wear glasses and the glasses give people a headache for various technical reasons I won't get into. 3D is basically a glasses (or some kind of headgear) based tech.

When the technology is finally completely contained within the glasses, it might catch on, but then everyone will look like Geordie Laforge, so there's that to consider.
post #29 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Interesting, but no way in a million years is anyone going to pay "$50-$90" a month for an iTunes pass. Even if the iTunes pass could replace all other sources for the consumer, it wouldn't be worth that and in reality, one is still going to need the blu-ray player, and most of the other sources and the gear to support them.

Any "replace your current setup" solutions from Apple will pretty much have to replace *everything* and also be cheaper than any one individual component that's currently in use to catch on.

And Apple has made it clear that they're not going to do most of those components on the stack.
But seriously, does Munster have any idea what the warehousing and showroom space would be to support the entire range of monitor sizes that people want, ranging from 20" to 100"?
Nuts doesn't begin to describe the idea.
post #30 of 85
as to apps, to realize its potential, AppleTV already needs a new third class of iOS apps @ 16:9 aspect 1280x720. iPad apps are 4:3, iPhone apps are 3:2. i expect to see this coming this year no matter what. it will give AppleTV sales a big boost.
post #31 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

3D is a fad that you will be embarrassed to have supported a few years from now when it disappears again.

Great article via Ebert on yet another reason 3D is a hacky gimmick...

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2011/01/post_4.html

focus vs convergence.
post #32 of 85
All of you are blinded by your hatred for Munster. I too think he is usually full of it. However, I think he is correct on this one. In fact, I think the signs have been there for a long time and Piper Jaffrey are just jumping on the bandwagon to try to claim some credit for predicting it.

Apple's deal with LG and the progression of the AppleTV lead me to believe an actual TV is only a matter of time. One of the major issues I have always had with the AppleTV is that it requires you to change inputs on your TV and then use a different GUI than your normal tv viewing. If that were integrated with a nice new Apple GUI, it would make perfect sense. It would no longer be a "hobby".

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post #33 of 85
or they can just make an even bigger iMac
post #34 of 85
I think Apple would like nothing more than to have an Apple logo at the bottom of the screen with every one in the family staring at it all day long...they could even have a momentary flash of the Apple logo at start up when you switch your TV on.

It would be rather like Apple making garage door openers where when you came home a big bright blue Apple logo appeared on your garage door as it was opening....Hmmmm!

TV: No wires, simplified remote, no components and an Apple UI. When can I pre-order?
post #35 of 85
If you don't think that Apple could be looking at televisions, you are extremely shortsighted. An end user experience of having all home devices connected and streaming information has been a goal of many manufacturers (Samsung, Sony, etc.), but up to this point, has been clunky at best. If I could get a 50" television that had an integrated Apple OS, Apple TV, camera, use my iPod Touch as a remote for everything, and stream music and video without the addition of another device, I'd get it. Maybe even add some touch screen elements as well.

Apple didn't invent the mp3 player, but their designs changed the game. No reason why this would be any different.
post #36 of 85
Unless Apple purchases the NBC/Comcast/Time-Warner triumvirate outright, I see a 40" LCD "hobby" in the future.
post #37 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmvsm View Post

If you don't think that Apple could be looking at televisions, you are extremely shortsighted. An end user experience of having all home devices connected and streaming information has been a goal of many manufacturers (Samsung, Sony, etc.), but up to this point, has been clunky at best. If I could get a 50" television that had an integrated Apple OS, Apple TV, camera, use my iPod Touch as a remote for everything, and stream music and video without the addition of another device, I'd get it. Maybe even add some touch screen elements as well.

Apple didn't invent the mp3 player, but their designs changed the game. No reason why this would be any different.

Bingo!
post #38 of 85
Why not one step at a time?

Add a 30" this year to the iMac refresh and include an option to add an internal AppleTV. I plan on replacing my original G5 iMac (ordered the day it was announced) with a new one (to be ordered the day the Sandy Bridge is announced) and I would pay for a 30" upgrade, especially if AppleTV is included.

As for the $3.9 Billion, I can see displays as being at the top of the list. I can also see Apple being willing to invest more (up to $10 Billion) for other enhancements, like doubling the size of their new server farm, enhancing protection for other components for their mobile lines (including capital investments capital equipment for producing memory.

What else would Apple potentially need that would benefit from pre-payments.

Aircraft aluminum.
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post #39 of 85
How about we work on getting a 30" display before we start talking about TVs.

(Oh, forgot, Apple doesn't care about its computer products anymore)
post #40 of 85
Munster has been barking up this tree for years, and for years, I've said he's full of it. There's nothing Apple can bring to the television set that it can't solve with AppleTV... Even the TV interface if it wanted to... Just add throughput to it, and now you're watching TV through Apple's box with Apple's UI.

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My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
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