Georgia state senator hopes to replace schoolbooks with iPads - Page 3

Why are idiotic fanboys so obsessed with porn ?

You're wrong. Apple blocked the Mark Fiore political cartoons because of their content. Apple blocked the Manhattan Declaration because of its content (no, I'm not defending the sentiment or policies in the Manhattan Declaration).

This is a bad precedent. And a terrible example for school children.

Sheez, in reading some of these posts it's clear that children are not the first concern, but support for an opinion.

For years it's been 'We need more computers for our school', and finally it's happening.

No wonder people in this country don't want to actually lead, when all we do is throw rocks at them.

An Enterprise iPad. Hardware locked to the education boards version of the app store. Probably a different color as well.

It would probably cost more than a standard iPad, but with no use outside the education system they wouldn't be as attractive to the crooks.

It will be all about where the book publishers are -- and that's Apple, iPad and subscription-based purchasing

This has got to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. So, your state as well as many other states is in a financial crisis and you want to spend crazy amounts of money to give all the middle schoolers iPads.

I am not going to hit on everything that is wrong with this scenario, but, here are the first few things that pop up.

1: How is it better? Reading is reading. Whether it is in a book or a digital tablet, the letters and numbers still mean the same thing. Yes, you only have one tablet, but, how long before some wiz of a 12 year old jailbreaks it, then everyone else follows suit and now the school has no control over the device and what the kids are doing with them.

2: How many kids do you think are going to get beat up and mugged after school or even during school for their iPad?

3: Cost? Let's say there are 500,000 students ( Georgia has over 1.5 million students from K-12, so I think 500,000 is a fairly accurate estimate ). At $500.00 per unit, that comes to $250,000,000.00. They are spending $40,000,000.00 on books. Take into consideration replacement cost of lost, stolen, broken, etc. devices every year.

4: Yes, it had great results with 47 students in a highly controlled environement. These children, I feel it is safe to assume, are the upper echelon of students. Kids with straight A's and have respect for things. Once those things are handed to all the normal students like candy, what happens? Some kid takes it home to his trailer and momma uses it to level out the kitchen table.

Kids will download spyware, and hacker types will root it and go to town with pirated apps. Android was inevitable, as was Palm webOS, and now Windows Series 7 Phone Series Edition Ultimate Pro. Only Nokia is sitting around, hoping this touchscreen fever will pass, and people will return to 2001.

Apple has been strong in the K-12 markets since the days of the Apple ][. The eMate 300, then later the eMac. The iPad in education? I can picture that.

One way or another, if Microsoft doesn't get a toe hold on the tablet future, they will lose an entire generation of kids for whom "Windows compatibility" holds no sway.

(And no Ballmer, a tablet is not just a PC without a keyboard. That's what you got wrong in the first place.)

It prefers to be called SKYNET.

the fight should be for standard digitized books. then students can use whatever device is needed/desired to read them and do away with this ridiculous waste of paper.
but that ain't gonna happen soon. too much money in the resale etc of text books. it is such a big scam.

No worse than reading books all day.

And with an iPad there is the possibility of audio versions of some materials so kids eyes can get a rest while they listen.

Plus who knows what the next iPad will be like in terms of the light sensor and screen material. Improvements could be in the works to make the device more suitable.

There's a lot of potential in these devices and it sounds like Apple is willing to invest some of that cash in the bank to help schools explore it. Could be great because not all kids learn the same and digital tools may help to adjust to cover more styles of kids. And with digital instruments, sketchpads etc perhaps creative programs will return to schools. And perhaps expand



So does half my family. And they would tell you that a lot of kids don't care about reading out of a book or listening to you talk, no matter how many times you threaten detention. So they write notes, or just zone out. The iPad won't create that problem.


So. The world is not the same as it was even 5 years ago. Books are still around, they are just changing form. Something teachers can use as a lesson in the classroom.

Not to mention that I would hesitate to allow my kids to be taught by someone with a "it was good enough for our parents" attitude.

Tech in the classrooms is a chance to teach kids the whole truth o how they can use it to learn, how to analyze sources and pick the wheat from the chaff, how to use social media safely. Even just the lesson that what you do can potentially be found years later by friends, spouses, even bosses. So be careful what you leave out there.


That little touchscreen has the Internet so it is a tool for teaching that lesson, not something prohibiting it. If the teacher isn't too lazy, like you come off with your retorts.


The very fact that you registered for this site to immediately post why this idea is terrible and should not be done says you are a Luddite. You refuse to consider that there could be some good uses for such devices and how you can use them in your work. You just say no way. Frankly I hope your school gets one of these grants and forces you to use them or transfer to a lower grade, say kindergarten. Then maybe you will open your eyes, take a good look around and realize that this is not your parent's world. And tech is here to stay.

Schools and school districts are like any business organization. When it comes to technology purchases, they buy a technology solution from a vendor. End users aren't systems integrators: they don't want to figure out how to piece it all together and support it with a large IT departments. What are they going to do? Root a bunch of cheap color Nooks and install Android 1.6 on there with some custom education apps? They want a turn-key solution that is easy to fix when it breaks.

Apple technology is completely vertical: schools would get the technology stack from a single vendor who has a long history of selling to the educational markets. With Android, you don't even have a single OS (if Google's going to count those incompatible Chinese forks as "Android"): it's fragmented by different companies. And these companies aren't interested in the education market: most are mobile handset makers who are scrambling to compete with Apple when the iPhone turned the smartphone market upside down. I mean, when was the last time Samsung's or Motorola's mobile divisions went after schools?

Ok, I didn't know that. It is a slippery slope.

Way to condemn every religion going, I couldn't agree with you more and for the first time ever and no doubt last, but that is just a theory ... LOL.

On the other hand science doesn't work like that. It is all about theories and repeatable tests to verify those theories by peers before being accepted and even then always open to be improved upon or disproved

I don't have all of these references to numerous studies backing me up, but I do own a Nook Color and read a few hours on it yesterday - no issues.

When I first got it I was skeptical and willing to return it if I found it an issue, but I found this article on cnet that made me feel better, and then I actually read for a long time on the thing and enjoyed it.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-20021227-82.html

Sounds like some folks missed that part about grants to pay for everything. Including teacher training.

Don't see Microsoft, Google or Dell offering that




The iPad is a highly useful tool for such lessons.

As for the whole junior high thing, in a way you are correct. They should be targeting elementary students. That way you can teach them responsibility before the hormone induced stupidity kicks in.




No it is a potentially great learning experience. Get those critical thinking and research skills going and discuss the differenc between a government and a private company and the rights and responsibilities of each. And also about the content being barred, why Apple did it and o the kids agree or disagree with th decision. Great debate class topic that might actually interest the kiddies because it is more timely than the classic mock debate over slavery.


while placing the burden of getting the device on the child and/or still having to provide a system for determining those kids that can't and ensuring they have something to use

On the collegiate level perhaps. But we are talking about grade schools where the same textbooks are reused over and over until they fall apart or are replaced by a newer edition from the publisher and the old ones trashed. So a child can potentially gave a way outdated book that other kids have defaced and is starting to fall apart.

Versus an iPad with fresh copies of all books, ways to take notes and make outlines right inside several apps. Plus the publisher can issue updates at any time and adding them can be as simple as the homeroom teacher having each kid come up to the desk for teacher to put in the password for the app store while the kiddies listen to the morning announcements. If they decide to add an app the kids can take it as far as the password and do the same thing

Or and all you eyestrain boys and girls, here's some talking points that aren't just you blowing hot air at each other
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/do-e-readers-cause-eye-strain/

Sorry, but you're just plain wrong.

I have a PhD in science. I understand how to observe the world and reach conclusions.

There are two possibilities:

1. Intelligent design is wrong

2. Intelligent design is right. However, for that to be true, God would have had to have created the world:
- with exactly the right fraction of radioactive isotopes decayed in exactly the percentage to look like the universe is 10 billion years old
- created distant quasars and galaxies - with photons already on there way here looking like they were billions of light years away
- intentionally distorted the photons to look like the galaxies are moving away from us at high speed
- created all the different species with DNA that is so much alike - and with all the different species falling onto a tree where each branch shares most of its DNA with the branch below it
- created a fossil record of dinosaurs and other animals that never could have existed (according to Genesis, the written record is almost equal to the amount of time that Man has been on earth - and there has never, ever been a record of anyone seeing a dinosaur)
- and literally millions of other data points where God must have created the world to look like evolution exists and the planetary systems developed over billions of years

That leads to one of the following conclusions:

1. There is no God
2. There is a God, but the biblical stories are not historically accurate in any way
3. God exists and created the world in 7 days as in the bible - BUT HE INTENTIONALLY SET OUT TO TRICK US. This requires a God who gives us human intelligence - but wants to punish us for using it. But that's counter to everything in the bible about God loving us

Your option just doesn't make any sense to anyone with even a shred of rationality. The scientific facts are readily observable to anyone who cares to take the time to learn something. You can't simply wave your hand and say 'science is wrong' - which is what 'Intelligent Design' attempts to do.

Well, I'll take you at your word. But if millions of people complain about eye strain, glare and lack of crisp text AND Apple and Amazon pour millions into reducing glare, reducing eye strain and making there text cleaner and crisper, I think there's something there.

The issue with eye strain, particularly from glare is that it makes it difficult to read for prolonged periods, which what we are asking kids to do.

I agree that e-readers are a great solution to a host of problems from overloaded back packs to keeping content fresh. I don't think the technology if ready for a complete swap just yet - especially to replace textbooks

I do think Kindles could and should replace paper novels, plays and poems in middle and high schools today.

You mean like this software?

TARMAC by Equinux

Not all content is equal and not all speech is protected. Your second example in particular is "hate speech" which has been illegal in most western countries (outside of the USA of course) for about 20 years now. Most countries consider that free speech rights end, where incitement to hatred begins.

I do agree about the political cartoons though which never should have been banned in the first place and should not be re-instated just because "someone famous did them." That would be just laughable if the issues weren't so serious. I also agree that Apple's idea of "porn" is ludicrous and that their banning of it in the store should be similarly illegal.

"The Manhattan Declaration" is a really bad example of "censorship" though given it's unfortunate contents.

An iPad can be locked and remote wiped and also encrypted. So yes, it's possible for someone to take a stolen one and re-flash it, but that's true of every device except those with hardware encryption (iPad's is software based I think). The data is still secure and the iPads can be physically locked up at night.

I think people are really missing the point with all these critiques about safety, theft, etc.

Lots of schools already either hand out, or require laptops for/from their students. This is exactly the same as that but with a slightly different (some would argue better, more secure, etc. ), device. If it works for school kids to use laptops, then it will work if they have iPads and all those issues are basically the same with both devices.

I think you are confusing Intelligent Design with Hebrew/Christian accounts in their writings found in the bible, with the actual creation of the universe by an entity that is currently unknown.

My personal opinion is that the bible is mostly a literary work with a few historical accounts of early civilizations. I reserve judgment, though, on whether or not life was just an accident. I'm leaning toward not.

Parents start out by telling their children there is a Santa Claus and a Tooth Fairy. It is very innocuous. Kids live in a make believe world anyway, with their doll houses and toy trucks. The only people who make a big deal out of the bible stories are the adults who have strong beliefs on one side or the other. To the kids it is all just storybook make believe until they are old enough to sort it out for themselves. I think they should include other religions in the studies of world cultures. Religion is wrapped up in many cultures around the world. To deny that religion is part of human history would be a bigger disservice to our children.

Invest in one of those rolling backpacks.

Regarding staring at bright lcd screens-I agree with you. I just bought a ipod touch and started reading on it. It hurt my eyes. I so much prefer my old Palm PDA.

Many of these kinds of criticisms were only relevant before IOS 4.2.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/business/software-update/


IOS 4.2 already supports centralized profiles to lock down the device.

http://developer.apple.com/library/i...roduction.html

You can create them using this utility.

http://developer.apple.com/library/i...roduction.html

You can house your own personal App Store to distribute your own applications within your organization.

http://developer.apple.com/library/i...roduction.html

Again, have you ever heard of backbacks with wheels? Besides, how many kids still lug their books home while walking. Parents need to keep an eye on their kids and pick them up in a car.

So I am to take it that you have never actually purchased a paper textbook. Well, they are expensive. There is also an entire physical infrastructure required to support paper textbooks after the sale. This includes transport, warehousing, and distribution. Textbooks must be replaced because their context must be updated. However, many current textbooks must also be replaced because they are physically worn-out.

The point is that textbooks have many costs associated with them that the iPad does not have. What is more, I believe that it is safe to say that many people see the iPad as a replacement for not only the pack-load of textbooks that each child must carry but also the laptop and even the desktop computers that many school systems provide.

Several posters before this have pointed out a significant issue that the iPad will [hopefully] address. That is the hijacking of the curriculum by the Forces of Ignorance. Teaching the religious beliefs of certain sects in science classes is one thing. Wanting to teach more than the official story about certain national tragedies is another thing. However, the Forces of Ignorance have now voted to change history that has heretofore not been controversial. Specifically, the Forces in the State of Texas have recently voted to remove the word slave from American history textbooks.

Backwards politicians in a single state should not have the power to dictate the curricula for the rest of the Union. This is what we have today. With the iPad, I don't see how this system can long stand.

Then replace 'God' in my post with 'unknown entity'. It doesn't change the fact that the concept that the world was created in its current form a few thousand years ago (which is being pushed by the ID people) is inconsistent with reality.

Book publishers will always price their products to maximize their profits. While an iPad with multiple books is easy to carry and access, I do not think it will save any money. I fail to understand why school districts continue to buy new history and math books every year. This just hands out money to the publishers at taxpayer expense. Has pre-1970 history or math changed that much that the schools need NEW books every year? Why not republish an 'OLD' history book and use a newer post-1970 smaller update? The article states paper books last 7 years. I just cannot believe how inefficiently schools are operated.

Another problem. Kids will get robbed of their iPads. This endangers the kids. When was the last time a kid was robbed for that science textbook?

I like it, jragosta....I have a daughter (5'11'' All American Volley Ball) with a degree in Molecular Biology in her 3rd year of Med school! (Got her mother's brains!)

My proof there is no God, is simply, every religion looks at women as "second class citizens!" In the Bible, Koran women are described as inferior.

My daughter is not inferior! But supposedly the word of God says she is.

That is the proof it is not the word of God but of old men trying to get everyone else to do what they want them to do!

Best

I think it's a great idea. Less paper will be used. Less books need to be carry in their backpacks. Most books are being published online anyways for easy access. Books are being made every year for kids, and they do get damaged or lost. As for ipads, I'm pretty sure they'll have an application that will locate any iPads, similar to the iPhone application, Find my iPhone. However, iPads are very expensive.

I agree Maly. Everything you said is true and I wold like to add....they will be used in colleges and in the work place. Get the kids using them now. Maybe some of them will design the next "killer app" in the near future!

Also along with the trees used in the making of books is the amount water needed for bleaching not to mention the toxic inks used. All this adds to pollution. Shipping, gas and oil, etc.

Best

Drop a school book, it gets a scuff mark. Drop an iPad, you lose ALL of your text books. Not a good idea for school kids.

This was true until Apple discontinued the XServe. I am hopeful they have some other plan beyond running OS X Server on Mac Minis or Mac Pros.

I'm not taking a position for or against ID people, more so against the equally argumentative atheists. You cannot disprove the existence of god any more than they can prove the existence of god. The one thing I think we can agree on is that the bible should not be part of science class, but I don't think the possibly false assumption that there is no creator should be taught in science either.

Exactly. Technologies like iPads make learning fun for kids and get them to embrace technology. My kids will do just about anything if they can do it on the iPad. By exposing them to the technology they aren't afraid of it.

My local school district has been deploying iPad's in limited quantities for use in the classroom side by side with interactive whiteboard technology from Hitachi http://www.hitachi-soft.com/starboard/ . Unfortunately they don't really work that well together and could be seen as competing technologies. I found a good summary of the competition here http://techinmusiced.wordpress.com/2...-smart-boards/

Now that Airvideo is coming to 3rd party developers. Can you imagine a teacher with an ipad running education applications wirelessly connected to an AppleTV hooked up to a projector? Imagine if these applications used the wifi network to allow for interaction with kids using ipod touches or ipads? Imagine all the cool stuff they could do using iTunes U. These technological improvements are so amazing in my opinion.

Interesting you mentioned the smart boards, veblen...my GF is a teacher at the middle school and, of course, is used to our macs at home. The school has the smart boards and windows PC's. The PC's she "detests" (and no that is not too strong a word). She finds them extremely frustrating when working with the students for freezes, restarting, losing work, start over, etc., etc.

The smart boards she is relatively impressed with but still they seem to have clumsy interfaces when compared to the macs. Not sure what brand they are...she does see the advantage of having them. Also, she noted there is different levels of proficiency on part of the teachers from being able to use them close to the smart boards potential to some teachers barely able to use them.

Certainly, accessing the internet, video, current events, etc., has a lot of advantages, but again she says for seemingly simple tasks one has to "drill-down" the menu options too much. Having Apple in the classroom can only be positive. Again, look at the college students and they sure do carry a lot of Apple laptops!

Anyway, enjoyed your comments and thanks for the links!

PS. I watch some of the lectures from MIT and they are fascinating on a wide range of topics!

Ok guys and girls enjoyed the conversation...going over to a friend's house for a Super Bowl party.

He just got a new big flat screen TV. He said the picture is so good it will be like Ben Rothlesberger is actually in your living room....groping your sister! Great

Best

Chris

My wife has been working the last few years to raise funding for our school district's smart board initiative. They are planning on a significant amount of the cost involved in deploying the technology being training for the teachers because some of the interaction with the device is counter intuitive. I relayed your girlfriend's experience to her. As of now the boards have only been deployed to a few tech savvy teachers who want to push the bounds and are willing to overlook any difficulties so it hasn't been much of an issue. These ipad's could be a real viable alternative because of how intuitive the interface is. Especially with the explosion of educational software for the device. I'm kind of geek'd about this now as she said she's going to talk to the district about using the iPad's they have a bit differently. Currently they just lock them down install a few applications on them then give them to the kids to interact with under their supervision. Using iPads to drive content for instruction is a new possibility for them to explore.

I think this ridiculous iPad fetish is really going too far now. Come on people, it's not some god-like device that's good for everything! It's more prone to breaking than a normal laptop, less usable because of the lack of a keyboard and a decent-sized screen, the screen is lit so it's not nice to read books from, and it will cause a lot of wrist- and other pains for many children because of the bad ergenomics. Please think a bit further before you give children these toys for learning.

Many kids can take the bike to school. And there are backpacks with wheels! I got one once as a gift from the university where I worked.

The Manhattan Declaration is hardly hate speech. I'm certainly not endorsing its content (I'm a liberal gay atheist), but it does not advocate violence or demonize a group of people. Apple is within their rights not to sell it, but this form of political censorship should concern folks.