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Low inventory, new HDD raise questions on future of Apple's iPod classic - Page 2

post #41 of 109
2/8/11 at 12:38pm
Honestly I had completely forgotten about the classic. I don't really understand the point of it except maybe in other markets. The other thing is the capacity of an idevice is really hit hardest when you add Apps, photos, recorded videos and large games.

I could fit plenty of music on a 32GB iWhatever, but if I want to add video, GPS maps and 1GB games that's where the memory really gets eaten up. Point is, it's really the SSD iDevices that need the boost. The classic EOL. Does it really need more capacity? Not really, because it's intended use (mainly music) wouldn't really benefit much from a capacity boost unless apple wanted to add a larger screen, a camera and video recording. (oh wait!)

Bring on the 128GB SSD's and be done with it.
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post #42 of 109
2/8/11 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Stop trolling please.

It's his raison d'être.

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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post #43 of 109
2/8/11 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewperson View Post

There are apps in the App Store that can play FLAC files.

THAT is something I'm jealous of. I can't seem to find a viable option in the Android market.
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post #44 of 109
2/8/11 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

It's his raison d'être.

his raisins tree? sey wut!?
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post #45 of 109
2/8/11 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

his raisins tree? sey wut!?

Chronster, really? "Reason for being". You must be kidding.
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turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down... infinite context means infinite possibility
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post #46 of 109
2/8/11 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by akf2000 View Post

*sniff*

Yeah, that's how I feel too.

Nothing better for use in a car.
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post #47 of 109
2/8/11 at 1:20pm
Ahhh, one of my pet peeves.

I wanted to get my daughter an iPod for Christmas but had significant problems finding one. You see, I think the new Nano is ergonomically a piece of ....

Too small, the wrong shape and without the click wheel. I wanted the previous old version, because Apple got that right to the point of near perfection. I eventually found a 16Gb refurbished one in the right colour for the price of the current model 8GB

Less is not always more, sometimes it's less and stupid, like the previous model iPod shuffle.

The reason the Classic has been pushed out of the limelight is because Apple haven't done anything significant with it. They have been so convinced there was no market and waiting for the inconvenient demand to go away - which it obviously hasn't - they thought they didn't need to do anything. Apple thought flash prices would keep dropping and they could soon offer greater capacity at reasonable prices but that didn't transpire either.

Apple really should have got the message by now, flash is too expensive, the price isn't going to drop soon and there is significant demand for greater capacity than flash can economically satisfy.

If i were Apple, I would take a Touch, add a HD and put a click wheel on the back - simples. I would buy one in a flash
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post #48 of 109
2/8/11 at 1:23pm
I've never really understood why Apple doesn't offer an HDD version of the touch; in fact with the larger widescreen display there's even more reason (compared to the classic) for the touch to have a high capacity drive. The screen is much better for watching video and video takes up masses of storage space.
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post #49 of 109
2/8/11 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

I wish Apple would support FLAC files.

Why? Stop wishing and just convert FLAC files to AppleLossless. Apple will never support FLAC so you might as well find a solution that actually works. Try this.
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post #50 of 109
2/8/11 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiver View Post

Well then I'm sure someone ,somewhere out there still wants to buy a fresh Betamax tape too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Stop trolling please.

What does it take to get banned? (seriously)

I have no problem with rational criticism of Apple and it's products, and I agree with some that the level of fanboy-ism here has risen lately. Sensible debate is useful, and crushing every dissenting voice is not cool.

But holy cow, there are a handful of accounts, like this iLiver clown, that constantly post garbage. Nothing constructive at all, just post after post of trolling. Sure, one can add to an ignore list, but there are still all the responses that follow.

Seriously, is there some kind of mechanism whereby we can nominate accounts to be terminated? Maybe a once-a-month thread for discussion? I know that's a dangerous road (and there's no way to automate the process, i.e. ultimately one of the admins has to make a reasoned judgement call) but maintaining the integrity of the forums is important.
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #51 of 109
2/8/11 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

What does it take to get banned? (seriously)

I have no problem with rational criticism of Apple and it's products, and I agree with some that the level of fanboy-ism here has risen lately. Sensible debate is useful, and crushing every dissenting voice is not cool.

But holy cow, there are a handful of accounts, like this iLiver clown, that constantly post garbage. Nothing constructive at all, just post after post of trolling. Sure, one can add to an ignore list, but there are still all the responses that follow.

Seriously, is there some kind of mechanism whereby we can nominate accounts to be terminated? Maybe a once-a-month thread for discussion? I know that's a dangerous road (and there's no way to automate the process, i.e. ultimately one of the admins has to make a reasoned judgement call) but maintaining the integrity of the forums is important.

Everyone has a different idea as to who should be banned. I get private messages from people wanting me to ban each other! Sometimes I think they should all be banned, including those demanding that people be banned. That's as annoying as the trolling.

But if someone's polite about it, it's harder to decide, and it takes longer.
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post #52 of 109
2/8/11 at 2:03pm
I hope they keep the classic as my music library has increased over the years I have upgraded the classic each time i currently have a 3 year old 160gb that I have 130gb of music on i will always want the ability to have m entire collection with me be it holiday, office, car etc..
I am looking on ebay fr a used one to keep connected p in the car.
Lee
macbook 2.25ghz 500gd hd, 4,gb ram, 160gb Ipod Classic,
16gb Iphone 3G, 32gb Iphone 4
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Lee
macbook 2.25ghz 500gd hd, 4,gb ram, 160gb Ipod Classic,
16gb Iphone 3G, 32gb Iphone 4
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post #53 of 109
2/8/11 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

It's his raison d'être.

That's a good one.

Je ne regrette rien.
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post #54 of 109
2/8/11 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

What does it take to get banned? (seriously)

I have no problem with rational criticism of Apple and it's products, and I agree with some that the level of fanboy-ism here has risen lately. Sensible debate is useful, and crushing every dissenting voice is not cool.

But holy cow, there are a handful of accounts, like this iLiver clown, that constantly post garbage. Nothing constructive at all, just post after post of trolling. Sure, one can add to an ignore list, but there are still all the responses that follow.

Seriously, is there some kind of mechanism whereby we can nominate accounts to be terminated? Maybe a once-a-month thread for discussion? I know that's a dangerous road (and there's no way to automate the process, i.e. ultimately one of the admins has to make a reasoned judgement call) but maintaining the integrity of the forums is important.

Some might say your signature with "No Matte, no sale" is trolling so you really shouldn't throw stones- you know what I'm saying?
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post #55 of 109
2/8/11 at 2:46pm
I'd buy a 220G in a heartbeat to replace my 160GB which is approaching full. I use it quite a bit to load TV series and digital copy movies for friends. Great portable way to carry a huge library of content. I only rip CDs to Apple Lossless and want to keep one copy of my library to sync to my iDevices. The classic makes a perfect choice.

Perhaps mobile things that have spinny media in them will disappear when the cloud and mobile networking makes for a practical alternative. Or when SSD becomes an cost effective option for the "needed" capacity. Reckon Apple will stop making these when they stop making their margins on them.
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post #56 of 109
2/8/11 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

I've never really understood why Apple doesn't offer an HDD version of the touch; in fact with the larger widescreen display there's even more reason (compared to the classic) for the touch to have a high capacity drive. The screen is much better for watching video and video takes up masses of storage space.

Power efficiency and data retrieval speeds come to mind.
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post #57 of 109
2/8/11 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

To the Smithsonian it goes....

I've held off on an iPad or a new iPod purchase until they come out with 128+GB of memory, so I can store my whole music collection in Lossless. (~90GB)

I wish Apple would support FLAC files. From what I've read, there's a hack/dual-boot OS that you can load on iPod Classics that will allow you to play FLAC files, though.

Why bother with FLAC? The quality is the same as Apple Lossless, and it's the same size, too. Why not just use a converter app (like Tunesify, in the App Store for 99¢) and convert them?
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post #58 of 109
2/8/11 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

Power efficiency and data retrieval speeds come to mind.

Not really an issue. Apple could use 4 GB flash for the iOS and apps, and the HDD for data storage. The iPod classic gets good battery life by caching; it spins up the HDD, reads 64 MB (IIRC) of audio to RAM, then spins the HDD back down.
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post #59 of 109
2/8/11 at 3:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

Why not just use a converter app (like Tunesify, in the App Store for 99¢) and convert them?

Or the OS X application I linked to earlier that is free.
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post #60 of 109
2/8/11 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiver View Post

To the Classic: You made Apple what it i$ today with all your failing hard drives taken from hits at the gym no matter what holder you wore.

It's obviously not for exercising, but the Classic is perfect for my Subaru Forester, hooked up with an iPod interface that I control through the car stereo. I set it to Album Shuffle, and I have hours and hours of Lossless music happiness. The best part is being surprised by what album is next - many times an album I love but haven't listed to for many months.

I'd love an increase to 220 GB. Still wouldn't fit all my music, though - I'm over 400 GB (Lossless).
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post #61 of 109
2/8/11 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenclaw View Post

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Betamax-L.../dp/B000928L7S

Someone must buy them.

I hate to feed a troll, but I do just want to say that Beta is still very much alive and well in the broadcast industry. Beta (Professional Format) and Betamax (Failed home format) are completely different formats, but the tapes are physically compatible. I just came from work; where I'm surrounded by a few hundred tapes. Trust me, I know (and prefer) the virtues of tapeless workflow...but yeah, tape is alive and well.
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post #62 of 109
2/8/11 at 3:29pm
My 25,000+ music library will not even fit on my current 160 GB model. I'd be happy to see a HD size increase. A 220 GB SSD Touch would be nice, but until then, I hope Apple hangs onto the iPod Classic.
There are many more cockroaches in this
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There are many more cockroaches in this
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post #63 of 109
2/8/11 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

It's obviously not for exercising, but the Classic is perfect for my Subaru Forester, hooked up with an iPod interface that I control through the car stereo.

Depends on what kind of exercising you're talking about. I use mine all the time on elliptical trainers, stationary bikes, and treadmill...where I have a place to rest it and not have it strapped to my body. I do use a shuffle for weight lifting though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayCon View Post

My 25,000+ music library will not even fit on my current 160 GB model. I'd be happy to see a HD size increase. A 220 GB SSD Touch would be nice, but until then, I hope Apple hangs onto the iPod Classic.


What compression rate are you using? I've got about 22,000 songs, plus a couple games and some videos and still have 55 GB free. That's why I've kept my files for the iPod at 128 kbps when ripping. For lossless with the audio alone I'd need 500-600 GB.
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post #64 of 109
2/8/11 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

I've held off on an iPad or a new iPod purchase until they come out with 128+GB of memory, so I can store my whole music collection in Lossless. (~90GB)

90GB lossless is not that much. You could use the option to convert to 128 Kbps and easily put it all on the iPod with plenty of room to spare.
The audio quality of the iPod is not that great that you nould notice much of a difference.
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post #65 of 109
2/8/11 at 4:16pm
It seems incredible to me that Apple has neither replaced the high capacity top end nor even mentioned their plans for it. The iPod was the very beginning of the idea that you could carry your entire library with you. I can't use a 30 GB or even a 60 GB player. I need to have large storage and carry it with me easily. Thousands of us out here are doing just that. Come on, Apple, let's at least tell the waiting multitude which way the wind is blowing. The wind just doesn't suddenly stop because you feel like building other devices.
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post #66 of 109
2/8/11 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It all depends upon sales. If it's profitable, Apple would likely upgrade it. If it's reaching the point where sales are just too low to justify its continuance, I would expect them to drop it.

I think that makes perfect sense. It's what happened to the X-Serve. However, if there's one Apple product that might survive for purely sentimental reasons, it's the click-wheel iPod.

Of course, that may already have been the case for some time.
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post #67 of 109
2/8/11 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiver View Post

That's a good one.

Je ne regrette rien.

Une fois remis, un troll Internet redouble ses efforts. Nous ne pardonnons pas Ã* la légère.

Mae pobl sy'n maddau ac anghofio cael eu saint. Nid oes unrhyw saint yma.

Ba chóir a thabhairt buachaill an dara seans fiúntach é féin a chruthú, ach amháin nuair a bhÃ*onn sé ina leathcheann.

你能听到我吗？

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #68 of 109
2/9/11 at 1:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

90GB lossless is not that much. You could use the option to convert to 128 Kbps and easily put it all on the iPod with plenty of room to spare.
The audio quality of the iPod is not that great that you nould notice much of a difference.

The audio quality of a classic iPod is indistinguishable from a fairly high end CD player - at least my 3rd gen one is.. There is an internet meme that iPods have poor sound quality because Apple, in one of their typically stupid penny-pinching strokes of meanness, shipped iPods with possibly the lousiest sounding earbuds of any manufacturer. Many people came to judge the sound quality of iPods on the supplied earbuds, rather than try it with a decent pair, so the iPod is now stuck with a bad reputation it doesn't deserve.

Now you have the situation where a lot of people who value HiFi audio quality, believe Cowon, Sony et al, all deliver far higher sound quality than iPods do and so don't buy them, actively denounce them and advise people not to buy them.

I think 128kbps is too low, 160kbps would be the minimum I would recommend.
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post #69 of 109
2/9/11 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I believe a Toshiba 320GB drive is the biggest 1.8" drive available. So, 400GB isn't possible.

Tosh makes a 400gb 2 platter, 1.8" drive http://eetimes.eu/en/400gb-1.8-micro..._id=222904401#

I would guess this one is the follow on to the series that are in my 2 platter 160GB Classic. But even if the specs for this one are off and 320GB is the biggest, my point is that we could have a Classic with much more storage if it was a priority to Apple.

Now some of the talk seems to be going more towards an upgrade versus a discontinuation. I hope that is the case.

One thing that is interesting in this topic is that while most of the pros about the Classic seem to be about its massive load carrying abilities (ie that it has a hard drive), there is a sizable percentage that like it from a click wheel. It will be interesting to see what happens to it when it RAM is finally cheap enough that storage really ceases to be an issue. Will it just become skinny, or will it vaporize??
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post #70 of 109
2/9/11 at 8:20am
Another casualty of sacrificing quality for convenience...
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post #71 of 109
2/9/11 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

...
Now you have the situation where a lot of people who value HiFi audio quality, believe Cowon, Sony et al, all deliver far higher sound quality than iPods do and so don't buy them, actively denounce them and advise people not to buy them.

I think 128kbps is too low, 160kbps would be the minimum I would recommend.

Thanks but I'll stick with my SACD player...
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post #72 of 109
2/9/11 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiver View Post

It will join the Sony Walkman in the design heap of technology.

Spinning mini hard drives are like the multi-generational offspring of spinning casstte tapes recording PCM.

You fail to see the profit margin Apple makes on this thing.

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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post #73 of 109
2/9/11 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Thanks but I'll stick with my SACD player...

I shall utter the three words that strike mortal terror into the hearts of audiophools - double blind testing.
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post #74 of 109
2/9/11 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I shall utter the three words that strike mortal terror into the hearts of audiophools - double blind testing.

I've met people who say they can reliably detect high-res audio vs. CD-res audio in double-blind listening tests, but they admit the difference is extremely subtle.
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post #75 of 109
2/9/11 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Everyone has a different idea as to who should be banned. I get private messages from people wanting me to ban each other! Sometimes I think they should all be banned, including those demanding that people be banned. That's as annoying as the trolling.

But if someone's polite about it, it's harder to decide, and it takes longer.

Agreed, and like I said, I understand it's a slippery slope. If someone asks for a ban and then it happens that only encourages more users to complain. In this case I figured it was worth asking because I could do so in the context of your reprimanding him already.

That said, I see someone saw the merit of the request. Although I suspect he's been on thin ice for a while. Sometimes as a regular reader it's hard to cope with the most egregious trolls, but maybe the system works fine as it is.
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #76 of 109
2/9/11 at 3:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kropoktin View Post

Tosh makes a 400gb 2 platter, 1.8" drive http://eetimes.eu/en/400gb-1.8-micro..._id=222904401#

I would guess this one is the follow on to the series that are in my 2 platter 160GB Classic. But even if the specs for this one are off and 320GB is the biggest, my point is that we could have a Classic with much more storage if it was a priority to Apple.

Now some of the talk seems to be going more towards an upgrade versus a discontinuation. I hope that is the case.

One thing that is interesting in this topic is that while most of the pros about the Classic seem to be about its massive load carrying abilities (ie that it has a hard drive), there is a sizable percentage that like it from a click wheel. It will be interesting to see what happens to it when it RAM is finally cheap enough that storage really ceases to be an issue. Will it just become skinny, or will it vaporize??

I don't think it's out yet. But, be that as it may, even 220 is a lot of storage for an iPod.
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post #77 of 109
2/9/11 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I shall utter the three words that strike mortal terror into the hearts of audiophools - double blind testing.

HeH heh! I try to get that done in the various audio clubs I'm a member of here in the NYC area. It's a tough argument. But it doesn't work with everything.
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post #78 of 109
2/9/11 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

I've met people who say they can reliably detect high-res audio vs. CD-res audio in double-blind listening tests, but they admit the difference is extremely subtle.

I'll tell ya. A lot of this is nonsense, but not all of it. i just bought a Sony 5400ES SACD player. Too bad Sony is now discontinuing all of their CD and SACD players except the $179.95 300 CD disk player. If you want Cd or SACD, you've now got to buy one of their Blu-Ray players which supports it. Anyway, my new one replaces an older model. There is a difference. We can all hear it. Better on Cd's and SACD's.

But a lot of SACD's aren't better because of the engineering of the mixdowns. Garbage in, garbage out. And popular CD's these days are not only highly compressed, but they're also using limiters! But, it's true that even in my rather expensive and revealing system, the difference, while there with good disks, is subtle.
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post #79 of 109
2/9/11 at 6:37pm
I pity the Audiophiles for their affliction. I'm so glad I can just sit back and enjoy the music without being judgmental about it.
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post #80 of 109
2/9/11 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I pity the Audiophiles for their affliction. I'm so glad I can just sit back and enjoy the music without being judgmental about it.

What does that mean?
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