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HP to take on with Apple with webOS-based TouchPad, Pre 3 - Page 4

post #121 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post

What I mean is that for the segment I'm talking about, yes, the mac simply is not in the discussion at that starting price. Even at $999 its way above the price point for the market (or audience) I'm thinking of here.

When I'm talking about the simple computing crowd idea, which I dont know how big it is but I dont think its small, those people are not buying computers for a grand and up. They aren't buying the $829 3G ipads either.

They are buying cheap PC's, cheap netbooks, and now $499/$599 iPads......

Why would the people who just want to surf the net, check email, buy stuff on amazon pay a grand for a computer when they have a hundred options for half that price?

I see your examples but I think its apples to oranges, no pun intended.

The $499 ipad has apple in a place with people buying them that they've never even attempted to market to previously, and they in no way relate to the high end crowd apple has sold computers to. EDIT for clarity: I mean a PORTION of the people buying the ipads, not the whole tablet market, the whole ipad crowd, etc.

IMO, I just don't think it applies to this segment at all.

I mean when I think of people who want simpler computing experiences in this context of this part of the tablet market or future tablet market, I'm talking REALLY SIMPLE. I couldn't imagine one EVER seeking out and buying a mac. Probably have no idea what the difference is between a mac and pc outside of the appearance and pricetag.

Not everyone wants to buy a cheap computer, even if all they want to do is browse the web, do e-mail, play simple games, etc. Don't forget that Apple's Mac sales are increasing at 24% a year when PC sales are increasingly stagnant. Last quarter, in the US, Pc sales were down by 6.6% while Mac sales were up almost 18%.

In addition, Lion will be adding a number of features from IOS. We've already got an App Store. We'll be getting a desktop option that will simplify it further, with a grid for programs, or apps, whatever we'll be calling this stuff from now on.

No doubt, we'll see many more features than the few we were shown already. This will be out this summer. We could see a less expensive Mac for this purpose. Who knows?

Apple could be very competitive in this space, and I think that it's what Hp is thinking about with these computers; a preemptive strike that we don't know the arrival date of, though that sounds odd.
post #122 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post

I'll even give an example back to you on this so maybe you can see what I mean....

My wife for example, dislikes computers, she doesn't understand them, and much more importantly and to the point of the discussion, doesn't want to. Even with all the frustration she felt towards computers, you'd have no idea who'd she blame, Dell, HP, windows, all the same from her POV.

She never in a million years would have ponied up $1200 for a macbook like we did if I (or someone like me) didn't force that as our computer purchase.

Results? She absolutely loves her mac. She'll never buy a non-mac. She still doesn't like computers, but she understands and recognizes the differences and simplicity vs her previous computers.

My GF is EXACTLY the same way, Jcoz. She hates computers, tech, smart phones, etc., but loves our macs with no wires, wireless printing, ATV, etc. She has to work with PC's at work and detests them!

I hope this little story comes across as funny...we got a new fax machine a few years back and she was trying to fax a document. She kept pressing buttons and keying the number and kept getting "beeped" at. Finally in utter frustration she put her hands behind her back, leaned over, got really close to the machine and yelled, "FAX!" It's really the only time I've ever heard her raise her voice!

Anyway, perhaps you had to be there. At 5'2" she looks really cute bent over and all!

PS. Usually, when she's mad she just keeps walking in out of the room I'm sitting in muttering obtuse comments while directing withering looks in my general direction.
post #123 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Maybe they should talk to Oracle about that first.

Mmmm...

Wouldn't it be interesting if HP and RIM both licensed the ability, from Oracle, to use Davlik on their devices -- something about poetic justice.
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post #124 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I think that would depend a lot on the "knowledgable salesperson". At Best Buy, though, they might well steer you to the HP, unless they were making more money off one of the others or your salesperson was a fan of iOS or Android.

I'm trying to make an assumption that the salesperson is being neutral for the point of the discussion, and spelling out all of what each offers, the ecosystem around them, both manufacturer generated, and third party, all the major features and what you would need to use them.
post #125 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I believe that this is the best non Apple tablet I've seen. Really! I just don't see a reason for large numbers of people to go out and buy it.

If you went into a store that had an iPad, a Honeycomb Android tablet, a non Honeycomb phone/tablet thing, and a WebOS tablet, and you didn't know anything about any of them, so you asked the knowledgable salesperson to explain them all, which would you buy, in what order of preference (seeing as you do know)?

I think we agree on this. My main point is only that this tablet seems like it meets the minimum bar of something that I might use.

That being said, I wouldn't give up my iPad for a WebOS tablet right now, I actually like the screens of icons a little more than I like WebOS's "card metaphor." So in your experiment, I would pick the iPad. I would use WebOS, but only if there was no such thing as an iPad and iOS.

I wouldn't consider an Android *anything* as I think it's just junk (I'm not saying that to be mean, I actually have tried it a bit and think it's pretty much a joke compared to iOS). Mainly this is because the experience of using Android is so astoundingly different (in a very bad way), from the way it's generally described by the acolytes. It all sounds equal to iOS until you actually have a device in your hand and see what absolute crap it is.

The easiest example is that I currently do a lot of writing on my iPad and as hard as it is sometimes to get Pages to cooperate, I can't imagine trying to do the same with some web widgetty thing or using Google docs.

How productive can a WebOS tablet really be if it has no native word processor or spreadsheet?
post #126 of 198
About a year ago (in the pre-iPad era) I thought Apple needed to build-in cable-less charging into the just announced iPad. Was I wrong!! The 10 hour life is still kind of a "killer app" for me.
I could not find any mentioning of battery life for the TouchPad. Did I miss that or did HP leave that out - intentionally? Makes you appreciate that Apple always tells us the battery life for all of their mobile devices - right at their introduction.
post #127 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

The one's that I know would never want to do more. But, the important point in selling to them is that they don't think they ever want to do more, they don't even know what more is, or want to know. They just want it to be simple so they can do it and get rid of the "doorstop" PC they are afraid to use or can't figure out.

And how many people who do want a computer are like that? Tens of thousands, hundreds, millions, tens of millions? I doubt it's tens of millions. It might be in the low millions. But not all of those people will be buying this at once. It would take time. so how long would that be? Enough to sell enough every year to turn a profit?
post #128 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post

I'll even give an example back to you on this so maybe you can see what I mean....

My wife for example, dislikes computers, she doesn't understand them, and much more importantly and to the point of the discussion, doesn't want to. Even with all the frustration she felt towards computers, you'd have no idea who'd she blame, Dell, HP, windows, all the same from her POV.

She never in a million years would have ponied up $1200 for a macbook like we did if I (or someone like me) didn't force that as our computer purchase.

Results? She absolutely loves her mac. She'll never buy a non-mac. She still doesn't like computers, but she understands and recognizes the differences and simplicity vs her previous computers.

So yes, you are right in that the mac already accomplishes much of what a consumer would want in a computing experience IMO.

BUT, at those price point and without the knowledge, it simply doesn't matter. The mac is not cheap enough and until you own one you probably couldn't understand that it could make life easier and pay for itself in that way.

That's what I mean by the mac not belonging in the discussion for most intents and purposes.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree there there are a lot of people who won't plunk down for a Mac. But they start at $999, so that's not as bad. I still don't believe that this is going to generate a lot of sales. It will certainly generate a fair bit, but will that be enough? I just don't think so. It's a risky buy for people because it's a new OS in the computing space. It will have no track record. And these days, that's dangerous. People think of Windows and OS X as desktop OS's. Can this sneak in? Can Chrome sneak in, because that's what this will be competing against as well. Both have similar objectives.
post #129 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I think we agree on this. My main point is only that this tablet seems like it meets the minimum bar of something that I might use.

That being said, I wouldn't give up my iPad for a WebOS tablet right now, I actually like the screens of icons a little more than I like WebOS's "card metaphor." So in your experiment, I would pick the iPad. I would use WebOS, but only if there was no such thing as an iPad and iOS.

I wouldn't consider an Android *anything* as I think it's just junk (I'm not saying that to be mean, I actually have tried it a bit and think it's pretty much a joke compared to iOS). Mainly this is because the experience of using Android is so astoundingly different (in a very bad way), from the way it's generally described by the acolytes. It all sounds equal to iOS until you actually have a device in your hand and see what absolute crap it is.

The easiest example is that I currently do a lot of writing on my iPad and as hard as it is sometimes to get Pages to cooperate, I can't imagine trying to do the same with some web widgetty thing or using Google docs.

How productive can a WebOS tablet really be if it has no native word processor or spreadsheet?

I don't think it's terribly productive. Even if you look at the apps for the phones, you will see an amazing amount of junk. I mean real junk. Even other WebOS developers complain about the amount of junk there is. I'm not so sure this is going to change without Hp doing a major overhaul of the store and the way apps get there. They seem to be working with, and possibly paying, a few major companies to come out with some basic apps, games, magazines and such so there will be something to point to when these things come out.

But whether there will be productivity apps the way there are for the iPhone and iPad remains to be seen, because right now, what little there is, is garbage.
post #130 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robre View Post

About a year ago (in the pre-iPad era) I thought Apple needed to build-in cable-less charging into the just announced iPad. Was I wrong!! The 10 hour life is still kind of a "killer app" for me.
I could not find any mentioning of battery life for the TouchPad. Did I miss that or did HP leave that out - intentionally? Makes you appreciate that Apple always tells us the battery life for all of their mobile devices - right at their introduction.

We've got perhaps five to eight months before these come out, so they must be working on optimizing the battery life. It's likely that while they computed that life from known conditions and component selection, they still don't have it down. It's dependent on how well they manage it, and whether there are any gotcha's in the software or hardware.

For example, RIM has stated that 8 hours is a goal for the Playbook, but beta testers have reported about 4+ hours. That's way off. Will they get to eight hours? Good question. if they don't, they will do the cheat that most manufacturers do; they will say "up to eight hours", which means six, usually.
post #131 of 198
Are you kidding, with the exception of the pull out keyboard, both products are almost exact copies of Apple. HP probably thinks it has the patents to keep Apple from filing suit.

Seriously though, HP can't come up with its own design? Also, in the past webos had decent reviews, but it looks stale.

With that said, if the choice was between Android and a HP webos device, I'd go with HP.
post #132 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I didn't like the full screen app switching using the new gestures. Unless you move really fast, your scrolling will be interrupted or slowed as some apps start loading. I think Apple should do this for the new gesture:

1- Swipe up (or double click home button) will bring background apps in carousel layout.
2- The carousel shows preview image of the app from the last view.
3- Scroll as usual with one finger.
4- Small x shows at the corner where you can terminate and app.

The visual effects (carousel) might work great with a new dual core iPad but might not work as smooth with the existing iPad.


That's an excellent idea!


Actually, the carousel performance is just fine on the current iPad!

CoverFlow would provide the carousel and would work very well as the task switcher (as you described above)!


I'll try and find a video that is OK to show & post it later.

I did some experimentation using a CoverFlow like construct to create a hierarchical drill-down to music/Videos...

Think:

L1 -- Artist Cover - with bio on the back
L2 -- Album Cover - With list of songs/videos on the back
L3 -- Song/Video Cover - with lyrics on the back
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post #133 of 198
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post #134 of 198
http://ipadpilots.k12cloudlearning.com/

I wanted to post the above link in response to no one in particular -- but to try to get an idea of how fast the Tablet market is moving.

In effect, the iPad is the Tablet Market!

The iPad certainly has its negatives -- but it is here, it is now, and it can do the job that needs to be done.

While many of us want a more perfect solution, in an iPad 2 or an iPad competitor...

There are lots of people who are just making do with the iPad.


By the time the troops are marshaled to defeat the iPad -- the war may well be over...

500 days of Summer -- are a long time


My personal ISWAG estimate is that Apple will sell 60 million iPads in calendar year 2011,

(My prediction of 10 million iPads in calendar year 2010 was low).
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post #135 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Not everyone wants to buy a cheap computer, even if all they want to do is browse the web, do e-mail, play simple games, etc. Don't forget that Apple's Mac sales are increasing at 24% a year when PC sales are increasingly stagnant. Last quarter, in the US, Pc sales were down by 6.6% while Mac sales were up almost 18%.

In addition, Lion will be adding a number of features from IOS. We've already got an App Store. We'll be getting a desktop option that will simplify it further, with a grid for programs, or apps, whatever we'll be calling this stuff from now on.

No doubt, we'll see many more features than the few we were shown already. This will be out this summer. We could see a less expensive Mac for this purpose. Who knows?

Apple could be very competitive in this space, and I think that it's what Hp is thinking about with these computers; a preemptive strike that we don't know the arrival date of, though that sounds odd.

I think people who dislike computers generally wont spend more than they have to on them, likewise for any other product they feel that way about but need....

I dont disagree with your possibility of a cheaper mac and HP's thinking, but at the same time its hard to see apple lowering the perceived value of the mac, but certainly possible, but I kind of feel they already may have that in the ipad.

Also agree the mac app store is huge in this regard, as far as simplifying the experience for people.
post #136 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

From time to time we see isolated market segments for specific quarters that look especially favorable, but looking at the long view it seems hard to confidently extrapolate that into a sustainable trend:
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-m...e.aspx?qprid=9

We're in the middle of the worst recession since The Great Depression, yet Apple exploded in sales of their PC hardware, while the rest of the industry was almost completely flat.

You can toss out your historic trends.

Apple's multi-tier solution of end-to-end is redefining the entire Industry.
post #137 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

From time to time we see isolated market segments for specific quarters that look especially favorable, but looking at the long view it seems hard to confidently extrapolate that into a sustainable trend:
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-m...e.aspx?qprid=9

The problem is that we really don't know what that web site is showing us.
post #138 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

http://ipadpilots.k12cloudlearning.com/

By the time the troops are marshaled to defeat the iPad -- the war may well be over...

500 days of Summer -- are a long time


My personal ISWAG estimate is that Apple will sell 60 million iPads in calendar year 2011,

(My prediction of 10 million iPads in calendar year 2010 was low).

Dick, I'm going to say, 61 million iPads in calendar year 2011!

Best
post #139 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post

I think people who dislike computers generally wont spend more than they have to on them, likewise for any other product they feel that way about but need....

I dont disagree with your possibility of a cheaper mac and HP's thinking, but at the same time its hard to see apple lowering the perceived value of the mac, but certainly possible, but I kind of feel they already may have that in the ipad.

Also agree the mac app store is huge in this regard, as far as simplifying the experience for people.

This is one of those things that we can argue about until we're blue in the face, or our fingernails fall off from all the typing we're doing.

It will play out. Until all this stuff is actually out for a time, we're just talking.
post #140 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

My GF is EXACTLY the same way, Jcoz. She hates computers, tech, smart phones, etc., but loves our macs with no wires, wireless printing, ATV, etc. She has to work with PC's at work and detests them!

I hope this little story comes across as funny...we got a new fax machine a few years back and she was trying to fax a document. She kept pressing buttons and keying the number and kept getting "beeped" at. Finally in utter frustration she put her hands behind her back, leaned over, got really close to the machine and yelled, "FAX!" It's really the only time I've ever heard her raise her voice!

Anyway, perhaps you had to be there. At 5'2" she looks really cute bent over and all!

No you dont have to be there, at least for me! lol, it is a funny story, especially since you are right in that they are exactly the same in that respect (my wife is also 5'2, for added humor, lol)...and the thing is, my wife is 24! its not like shes from a generation that didn't have computers for most of their lives....

I'm absolutely not trying to be sexist, but at the same time I don't think it would be unfair for me to say that I believe women do make up a large chunk of the audience I'm speaking of. In my wifes case, its not an intelligence issue, its an interest issue. She's just not interested in tech. She has an idea of what she wants/needs to do and just want something that does it without her getting frustrated to tears over it.
post #141 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

We're in the middle of the worst recession since The Great Depression, yet Apple exploded in sales of their PC hardware, while the rest of the industry was almost completely flat.

You can toss out your historic trends.

Apple's multi-tier solution of end-to-end is redefining the entire Industry.

Excellent comment, mdriftmeyer. I had forgotten about that. I remember Stevo saying a while back that Apple does not layoff people in a downturn because they have spent a lot of time and money to get them in the first place. In a downturn Apple redoubles its R&D so it is ready and well positioned for the next upswing. This time, as you say, they did quite well in the greatest recession since the great depression. Just good business. I wish other companies were this fwd thinking.

Best
post #142 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This is one of those things that we can argue about until we're blue in the face, or our fingernails fall off from all the typing we're doing.

It will play out. Until all this stuff is actually out for a time, we're just talking.

I agree, and I also agree with and acknowledge what is an undeniable halo effect from other apple products leading people to macs.

I also don't want to misrepresent the fact that I agree the new Macbook Air is a big step in the direction of actually getting the people I'm talking about closer to buying that first mac.

I'm just saying that price is such a big big deal IMO in this segment. So much bigger than features and processors and storage capacity and ports.....

I mean Apple coming in at $499 for the ipad was so big I can't stress it enough.

The apple I've known and loved def. wouldn't have charged less than $999 for that device. And mac people would have still bought them up in bundles. Myself included.

But the $499 ipad is another animal and opens apple up to people much different than mac users of the past IMO.
post #143 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The problem is that we really don't know what that web site is showing us.

It's showing that if you look at market share across a longer span, you see that there isn't really much change.

It's also not surprising that PC's are "stagnate" while Mac's are growing. The market is pretty saturated right now, just like cellphones. If you're buying a computer, it's typically replacing one you already have, not a brand new one. PC can't take much more of the market, and Mac can only go up. There are no other contenders currently (linux doesn't have any serious boxes shipping with it).

the resession isn't the stumbling block you think it is either. People are still spending a TON of money on electronics, even as they cut back in other areas.
post #144 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post

I agree, and I also agree with and acknowledge what is an undeniable halo effect from other apple products leading people to macs.

I also don't want to misrepresent the fact that I agree the new Macbook Air is a big step in the direction of actually getting the people I'm talking about closer to buying that first mac.

I'm just saying that price is such a big big deal IMO in this segment. So much bigger than features and processors and storage capacity and ports.....

I mean Apple coming in at $499 for the ipad was so big I can't stress it enough.

The apple I've known and loved def. wouldn't have charged less than $999 for that device. And mac people would have still bought them up in bundles. Myself included.

But the $499 ipad is another animal and opens apple up to people much different than mac users of the past IMO.

Good points, Jcoz. Please don't think I'm being elitist with this next remark. As pretty much everyone knows ~70% of the US economy is driven by the consumer. However, a less known fact is the top 10% of consumers drive ~50% of the economy. This is one of the reasons why Apple "owns" the $1,000+ laptop market.

Having said this, I whole heartedly agree that bringing the iPad in at $499 was a real milestone for Apple. I too, thought it would be $999 when introduced. Good for Apple and it made the iPad more accessible to a wider range of consumers and certainly contributed to its remarkable success!

Apple, similarly, albeit to a lesser degree got the pricing right for Snow Leopard at $29 instead of $129, dropping the price of the Nano to $149 and the new iLife '11 at $49.

Best
post #145 of 198
Would someone please turn off the faucet to all these copy cat devices, Please!!!
post #146 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post

I agree, and I also agree with and acknowledge what is an undeniable halo effect from other apple products leading people to macs.

I also don't want to misrepresent the fact that I agree the new Macbook Air is a big step in the direction of actually getting the people I'm talking about closer to buying that first mac.

I'm just saying that price is such a big big deal IMO in this segment. So much bigger than features and processors and storage capacity and ports.....

I mean Apple coming in at $499 for the ipad was so big I can't stress it enough.

The apple I've known and loved def. wouldn't have charged less than $999 for that device. And mac people would have still bought them up in bundles. Myself included.

But the $499 ipad is another animal and opens apple up to people much different than mac users of the past IMO.

I'm going to agree with you on this. A five hundred dollar low-end iPad was a stroke of marketing genius. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that, if I were Apple, when I announced the iPad 2, I'd take the opportunity to drop the price to $400 for a low-end iPad 1.

BTW, did anyone else note that the HP only has one camera? I believe the iPad 2 is predicted to have both front and back cameras. Methinks Apple surprised HP on this front....
post #147 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnviroG View Post

Would someone please turn off the faucet to all these copy cat devices, Please!!!

ALL touchscreen based devices will look similar. They'll all be a large pane of glass with a bezel around it. This is a design requirement, not them trying to copy it.
post #148 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post

I agree, and I also agree with and acknowledge what is an undeniable halo effect from other apple products leading people to macs.

I also don't want to misrepresent the fact that I agree the new Macbook Air is a big step in the direction of actually getting the people I'm talking about closer to buying that first mac.

I'm just saying that price is such a big big deal IMO in this segment. So much bigger than features and processors and storage capacity and ports.....

I mean Apple coming in at $499 for the ipad was so big I can't stress it enough.

The apple I've known and loved def. wouldn't have charged less than $999 for that device. And mac people would have still bought them up in bundles. Myself included.

But the $499 ipad is another animal and opens apple up to people much different than mac users of the past IMO.

iPad pricing is something that shocked a lot of people. Other manufacturers are still reeling from that. A lot of tablets that were announced, as well as several book readers, were never put out for sale. We see the Xoom coming in for $799 with 32GB flash. The one thing that's better on that is the higher resolution. The rest, Apple will have with the iPad2.

The Touchpad doesn't do anything to improve upon the iPad2 that will be out. And if that has two cameras, as expected, then the Touchpad will have less. With a max of 32GB flash, it had better cost no more than Apple's 32GB model when it comes out, and that will be a hard sell, so it should cost less. But, can it? We see why other manufacturers like RIM and Samsung are going for 7" tablets. The Tab costs $599 for an unsubsidized model. That's a lot, and I think they're losing money on it, or, they're charging too much for it in Europe.
post #149 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

It's showing that if you look at market share across a longer span, you see that there isn't really much change.

It's also not surprising that PC's are "stagnate" while Mac's are growing. The market is pretty saturated right now, just like cellphones. If you're buying a computer, it's typically replacing one you already have, not a brand new one. PC can't take much more of the market, and Mac can only go up. There are no other contenders currently (linux doesn't have any serious boxes shipping with it).

the resession isn't the stumbling block you think it is either. People are still spending a TON of money on electronics, even as they cut back in other areas.

I meant that I don't know where those numbers came from. Are they web use? Sales numbers? What? If it's web use, it's very unreliable.

I didn't say anything about the recession. but, as you brought it up, most other companies, including electronics and computer companies suffered greatly during the recession - except for Apple.

By the way, we've been out of the recession for about a year. Job growth is something else.
post #150 of 198
Well, this is the best tablet ripoff so far, basically because it's closest to Apple's version. Even the presentation looks like an Apple presentation.

However, it's not going to be out until the summer and important details such as pricing and battery life are unknown. And by that time, the iPad2 will of course be out. Apple had better make the iPad2 killer! Not just a minor upgrade to the iPad1, but significantly better. Then, that will be all she wrote, game over.

I haven't watched any videos of this HP thing in action yet, but I was reading elsewhere that some people who did watch the videos were saying that scrolling was choppy.

Also, one thing that NONE of the competitors and ripoffs have is Apple's ecosystem with their Appstore. Nothing else comes close.
post #151 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

iPad pricing is something that shocked a lot of people. Other manufacturers are still reeling from that. A lot of tablets that were announced, as well as several book readers, were never put out for sale. We see the Xoom coming in for $799 with 32GB flash. The one thing that's better on that is the higher resolution. The rest, Apple will have with the iPad2.

The Touchpad doesn't do anything to improve upon the iPad2 that will be out. And if that has two cameras, as expected, then the Touchpad will have less. With a max of 32GB flash, it had better cost no more than Apple's 32GB model when it comes out, and that will be a hard sell, so it should cost less. But, can it? We see why other manufacturers like RIM and Samsung are going for 7" tablets. The Tab costs $599 for an unsubsidized model. That's a lot, and I think they're losing money on it, or, they're charging too much for it in Europe.

HP's units need to cost the same by memory (+/- $25) or they are DOA, I agree with you there absolutely.

If this think can run flash without a considerable (say, not> 20%) drop in battery time, they will have an actual selling point over the ipad and Xoom. Don't jump on me there, flash is not big for me, I've gone to about 5 websites that I can't look at because of flash in 4 years of owning an iphone, but it matters to some people.

Also, as apple grows in popularity so do the hate apple crowd. They can't wait for the Xoom and Touchpad (though they have little choice )....now, this will earn them alot of sales the first time around, then it has to stand on its own. We don't know if it will, but hate doesn't buy loyalty. They have to earn that fair and square.

I think part of me thinking HP has a chance is that they may actually be able to match the pricing, we will see if they do.
post #152 of 198
I have some very nice and useful HP hardware, BUT they never keep it updated or have a longer product development strategy. They seem to orphan hardware faster than any other company I have experience with. Maybe that disposable printer attitude is in the company's DNA.

So, I generally feel if I buy HP equipment, it will do what it does, but only for as long as it does not need to be updated to interface with anything else.

It will be interesting to see how they treat their tablet customers.
post #153 of 198
so who is going to buy an iPad clone from HP for about the same price but without an ecosystem equal to Apple's, or even Googles', to support it?

of course it has some nice details. like optional virtual keyboard layouts. hope Apple incorporates some good ideas from HP and Android too in iOS later this year.

one big opportunity Apple can leverage with iOS this year or next is a much expanded Apple TV, or even an Apple HDTV. HP is not ready for that at all (Google is trying).

and i expect to see a lot of iOS integration with OS X Lion this summer. so HP may not get there first either.

but as many comments note already, maybe the most important part of Web OS for HP is the beginning of a Window-less OS alternative, as portable devices take a big chunk of the future of computing away from conventional desktop OS's.
post #154 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by M0T View Post

I have some very nice and useful HP hardware, BUT they never keep it updated or have a longer product development strategy. They seem to orphan hardware faster than any other company I have experience with. Maybe that disposable printer attitude is in the company's DNA.

So, I generally feel if I buy HP equipment, it will do what it does, but only for as long as it does not need to be updated to interface with anything else.

It will be interesting to see how they treat their tablet customers.

This, besides price, is where all the fine print is concerning HP's new lineup.....

Will they get dev support and just as importantly, how will they manage their ecosystem, if at all? What type of deals will be in place for content providers like Time? How will another all-in-one house competitor affect apples leverage with content providers, if at all?

Will the webOS team be able to take advantage of the whole aspect that HP now controls the hardware and software, which IMO is a major advantage for Apple over the HTC's, Motorola's, and LG's of the world of mobile computing?

HP will need to further emulate Apple's recipe to gain traction here....

They need to do quite a bit of things successfully to pull this off.
post #155 of 198
Gruber has some interesting ideas posted on his site:

http://daringfireball.net/

He thinks that Apple will release the iPad 2 in March, and follow that with another iPad in Sep-Oct -- possibly an additional high-end model, say an iPad HD with a retina display.

Interesting analysis behind this.

If this were to happen, my Big Question is: What does Apple do for an entry iPad in March?

My iSWAG estimate for the answer is the 32GB WiFi iPad gen 1 is offered at $299.

Game, Set and Match!
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #156 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post

No you dont have to be there, at least for me! lol, it is a funny story, especially since you are right in that they are exactly the same in that respect (my wife is also 5'2, for added humor, lol)...and the thing is, my wife is 24! its not like shes from a generation that didn't have computers for most of their lives....

I'm absolutely not trying to be sexist, but at the same time I don't think it would be unfair for me to say that I believe women do make up a large chunk of the audience I'm speaking of. In my wifes case, its not an intelligence issue, its an interest issue. She's just not interested in tech. She has an idea of what she wants/needs to do and just want something that does it without her getting frustrated to tears over it.

You know they may be onto something here....when you turn on the TV you don't want to have to drill down into a menu to get to play a DVD! Or pickup a telephone, you don't want to have to "restart" it every fifth time!

As you say Apple is as close to getting it right as anyone...she loved the video I was able to take on my iP4, I quickly "bashed" it together in iMovie and had it on our big flat screen TV via ATV. She thought I was brilliant! Granted that was a few months ago. Right now she's in a phase where she blames me "for the recession!" Oh well, you can't win them all! Best and enjoyed your comments!
post #157 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


My iSWAG estimate for the answer is the 32GB WiFi iPad gen 1 is offered at $299.

Game, Set and Match!

Wow, that would certainly upset the old apple cart, as it were! I was watching the SuperBowl when the Motorola Xoom commercial came on and an engineer sitting next to me said that's the tablet he'll be buying soon.

Being the polite gentleman that I am, I just said, looks good. On Monday come to find out it's going to be ~$800 plus something about have a 3G cell plan for a month...Crunch!

Certainly, HP has the buying power to buy things in bulk, but it sounds like Apple got first jump on securing best price by ordering early for screens and flash.

$299 from Apple would seriously put the screws to the other competitors!

Best
post #158 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

Some ideas are just blindingly obvious.

Yup, so obvious all tablets before the iPad looked like the iPad

Sure, after someone shows you the best way to do it, it's easy to say it's "blindingly obvious".

But if it was so blindingly obvious why did they not appear until after the iPad?

Your irrationality with this line of "reasoning" is just laughable.
post #159 of 198
Why do they need to have "HP webOS" wasting display space? It's not like the thing can dual-boot into another OS.

Maybe HP could switch it to a mostly transparent overlay, with "HP webOS" diagonally across the screen, like a printers watermark.
post #160 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwlaw99 View Post

If HP can create a Davlik wrapper so this can run Android apps as well, it will get a bunch of Android users who like WebOS better, but want the app catalogue of Android.

the phrase "lipstick on a pig" comes to mind...

Talk about focusing on features vs. the user experience
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