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HP to take on with Apple with webOS-based TouchPad, Pre 3 - Page 2

post #41 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

My impression, based solely on the engadget live blog images, was that these were PCs running webOS, not Windows machines with a webOS layer:



Looks like a boot screen, but really no details.

Mmmm....

That is an interesting concept!

It could be:

-- a dual boot
-- a virtualization/simulation
-- an app running full screen


I can visualize that, in the long run, a more intimate (iOS-like) OS will replace the more complex desktop OSes of today -- for many users and uses.


Does HP & WebOS have the bona fides to crank out a full PC OS in less than 1 year?

One with support for accessories, drivers, networks, desktop apps as well as mobile apps.


I don't think even Apple would attempt that in a single step!


MSFT says it is going to take 2 years to Make Win 8 run on ARM.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #42 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

It looks like this is a blatant copycat of iPad forms. May be some of the recent rumors of iPad2 is just this one? The real iPad2 may have a rear camera after all. News articles about the iPad and iPhone competitors always neglect the batter issue. But the battery is one important area that iPad and iPhone excels.

I keep thinking about how all the tablets that are coming out look like the iPad. But really, what can they do? All tablets are pretty much alike in form. Unless they go for a 16:9 screen, which is good for Tv and movies, but bad for everything else, the shape is going to be about the same. They've all got to have a clean flat face, with about the same amount of margin around the screen. Rounded corners, but not too much, so that it doesn't cut into the holding area. Few buttons. Thin, with a small border around the edge. What else can it look like? It's just the software that will make it look different, once it's on.

This is one issue that should be laid to ret.
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post #43 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:02pm
I hope this will prompt Apple to spice up iOS with optional widgets, lockscreen info, an iphone mini and offer an iphone slider.

I don't see anything here that screams better than Apple's iOS offerings but I must say those products are the closest challengers I've seen since the birth of the iPhone. Good for HP, good for the competition, good for us.. the consumers.

Now, next time I buy an HP laptop I think I wouldn't decline if they gave me touchpad for free lol
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post #44 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by allmypeople View Post

For some reason I get a good feeling from this offering that I don't get from Android tablets.

Apple rip-off presentation: CHECK!
Apple rip-off tablet: CHECK!
Apple rip-off laptop design: CHECK!
Apple rip-ff phone design: not quite. lol.

Overall Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


True Multitasking: Oh wait.....
Proper Notification: yeah.....
Phone - Tablet Integration : You can do that???!
Device web page transfer: huh???
Time Magazine vs The Daily : You decide...LOL
PC - Tablet Integration : Wha??!



how is that for ya...
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post #45 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:02pm
I hate HP, their products suck and their tech support sucks. This is HP reinventing itself like we saw with Apple. We will see.
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post #46 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:03pm
I like it. This would be the tablet I would get if I were in the market. However 6 months out? No price? No battery life? Great idea, bad current execution.
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post #47 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

That's better than placing the tablet in a glass casing for everyone to just stare at and play some fancy videos like RIM did.

They also have demo units for a hands on after they introduction ... the touchpad looks good.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/09/h...irst-hands-on/
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post #48 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:03pm
Not releasing a non hardware keyboard 3.5" - 4" phone to compete with the iPhone and any number of Android and wp7 devices is the single most idiotic move by HP period.
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post #49 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:04pm
The burst of tablets on the scene, all running different operating systems, reminds me of the the personal computer revolution in the late 70's when everyone and their dog was releasing a different, incompatible platform. Apple also lead that pack with their wildly popular Apple II.

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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post #50 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No pricing. No battery life.

No real availability date, either:

SUMMER SOLSTICE\tJune 21, 1:16 P.M. EDT
FALL EQUINOX\tSeptember 23, 5:05 A.M. EDT
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #51 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I can see lots of uses for the technology -- using NFC.

You buy stuff at the store, gas station or supermarket:
-- you wave or bump your phone against the POST (Point Of Sale Terminal), cash register, cc machine
-- your payment is digitally sent and recorded
-- your detailed receipt is digitally returned

Boom!

There's no evidence that this is NFC. it could be Bluetooth, or WiFi. They surely would hve mentioned NFC, and it would be on their web site.
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post #52 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of "cartoon" interfaces either

Aha, that's the term i was looking for. No doubt it's a standard label in the industry?
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post #53 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:07pm
Looks pretty good, "Some internet dude" predict it will do well in the market. Soon there will be three Android, iOS, and webOS. Sorry MS you had a great chance to get in the market but that horrible Win Phone 7 UI messed it up for you, It may be possible to help your situation by offering an option to turn those tiles off. But i'm afraid what lurks underneath is not that much prettier.
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post #54 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

The burst of tablets on the scene, all running different operating systems, reminds me of the the personal computer revolution in the late 70's when everyone and their dog was releasing a different, incompatible platform. Apple also lead that pack with their wildly popular Apple II.

Then Gates stole the interface, made the PC and Apple was temporarily forgotten. Who will be the Bill Gates of this generation.
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post #55 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I wouldn't be so sure. There are a lot of people out there for whom a traditional PC (especially running Windows, so some segment of HP's customer base) is just way too complicated, to the point where they use it as little as possible and fear it like a trip to the dentist. I think they might be able to sell more than a few of these to those living in PC fear. I think Apple could probably sell more than a few keyboard+mouse iOS PCs to the same demographic.

If they can't get traditional programs for their "computer", it won't fly. Remember all those Linux netbooks that were out there in the beginning? Linux fanboys were jumping up and down that this was the beginning of the Linux desktop revolution - until people began returning them, and Ms came out with XP Starter for netbooks.

I don't see this doing so much better. People will ask if Office will work on this, along with other programs that won't. And then there's Chrome from Google. That won't sell either.
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post #56 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

Yeah I think you'll be able to run iPad apps in Lion's full screen mode. This will eventually lead to one app running across all OS X devices/computers natively.

I don't think that will happen, if you mean on Mac OS X Lion.
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post #57 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:11pm
After a lifetime of receiving HORRIBLE customer service (and crappy products) from both HP and Palm, I would NEVER AGAIN purchase ANYTHING made by HP.
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post #58 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post

It doesn't have to be all-new ideas, features. Apple has never been feature-centric.

The interesting thing here is HP taking control of the software.

You dont have to make brand new eye poping features, you need to make your features work better than your competitors.

WebOS may or may not be able to do that, but this is the first truly intriguing, non-apple entry into the mobile space in the last couple years in my mind.

No. This isn't just about new ideas. It's about having a reason to buy into this. I didn't see you give a good reason for doing so. What really compelling reason would people have for buying one of these other than just not liking Apple, or Android, or whatever. They then are buying it for a negative reason. not a positive one. That's a bad reason. It's also a fickle one.

Really, what's so "intriguing about this? Touching two of your devices to send a web page, or an e-mail? Really? I get my e-mails on both devices now. Ad moving a web page, or some other info is nice, but hardly a major leap in usefulness.

For people to move to this, it's got to have something compelling. I see nothing compelling here.
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post #59 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:14pm
Are these specs confirmed? You mean they really try to clone the iPad and then use a TN panel? I am not interested in the device, but I certainly hope that is not true.
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post #60 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:16pm
I really wish people would stop calling these things rip-offs. The iPad uses a 1024x768 display, like tens of millions of PCs did 5-6 years ago. It's the right display ratio for tablets in IMO and so of course, any sensible competitor will also use that ratio. It's not copying to arrive at the same obvious conclusion as the guy before you did.

Tablets need a bezel, to prevent accidental contact with the screen when the device is held. Black is the only real choice of colour for this bezel.

These two things alone mean many tablets will look like the iPad. I don't see anything else very iPad-like in this HP tablet.

I actually find it quite refreshing to see an Apple competitor actually looking like they might have the big picture mentality to actually create something capable of taking on iOS. HP are a big, big player and these seem like nice enough devices for their first foray into this sector.

Ultimately, these things will stand or fall on the strength of Palm OS. I have never used it so I cannot say how I rate their chances, but just looking at the home screen there it immediately scores brownie points over Android with it's horrid, cluttered look.
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post #61 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I hate HP, their products suck and their tech support sucks. This is HP reinventing itself like we saw with Apple. We will see.

Let's not "hate" companies for reason you gave, true or not. Hp's a good company. They didn't do anything underhanded to get where they are. save your hate for those who did, or those who really screwed people.

Remember that there are people who "hate" Apple as well, for similarly personal reasons.
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post #62 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If they can't get traditional programs for their "computer", it won't fly. Remember all those Linux netbooks that were out there in the beginning? Linux fanboys were jumping up and down that this was the beginning of the Linux desktop revolution - until people began returning them, and Ms came out with XP Starter for netbooks.

I don't see this doing so much better. People will ask if Office will work on this, along with other programs that won't. And then there's Chrome from Google. That won't sell either.

This would be more like the anti-Linux, so I don't think the analogy applies.

I don't think Chrome is going anywhere, either, but, there's a whole group of people out there who are totally and completely afraid to use their computers. A lot of them are people who didn't grow up with computers (for example, many "grandparents" today). But, they'd like to be able to load their pictures onto their computers, email them to friends and relatives, do a little light web browsing now and then, video chat with the grandkids, and so on. A desktop or laptop form factor with the simplicity of iOS would have a certain appeal to these people. They could care less about Microsoft Office, and would be very happy for someone to tell them they don't need it.
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post #63 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:20pm
The pad's nice, the phone lame.
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post #64 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

These two things alone mean many tablets will look like the iPad. I don't see anything else very iPad-like in this HP tablet.

You mean like the email application that looks almost 100% like the one on the iPad. But you would certainly say, that all email apps look the same. And like every other device on earth it has a dock... Yeah, really no alternatives to all that.

Bad thing is, they are not even good at copying... the email app has all the buttons on the bottom of the screen... try to use those while having the device sitting in the lap. A good copy is not all that easy it seems.
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post #65 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:21pm
Looking at a hands on demo video of the touchpad, I have to say Apple could take a few ques from this new WebOS implementation. Quite well done and solves some nagging ipad issues in an elegant way. Downside is the Summer availability and hopefully ipad 2 (April?) and an updated ios will compensate. nevertheless, well done HP I thought.
{2010 Mac Pro-6 core 3.33-12gb 1333 ram-ati5870-velociraptor 600's-SL/win7/64-Konnekt Live/Onkyo-Dell3007wfp}
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{2008 Mac Pro-8 core 3.2's-16GB-evga285} {MBP17}{ipad}{iphone 4 blk16gb}
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post #66 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I keep thinking about how all the tablets that are coming out look like the iPad. But really, what can they do?

Isn't it funny how this is always the case...until Apple comes up with something!?
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post #67 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

No real availability date, either:

SUMMER SOLSTICE\tJune 21, 1:16 P.M. EDT
FALL EQUINOX\tSeptember 23, 5:05 A.M. EDT

I'm pretty sure they only announced now because the iPhone is on Verizon, the iPad2 will be out soon, and Android Honeycomb will be here shortly in the Xoom, and others by summer.

The products are likely not nearly ready, except for a few demo units, used under controlled conditions. They possibly aren't even sure about pricing (though, it's possible they're waiting for Apple's pricing, though how much wiggle room they have is a question). Same thing with battery life. The battery is almost as powerful as the ones Apple is using in the present iPad. But until the software is finished, and possibly even the hardware, they won't know what the battery life will be.
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post #68 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:25pm
It's not surprising to see some people trying their hardest to dismiss this thing as a failure before it even gets out of the gate, but I'm pleased to see that this attitude isn't as abundant as it is in other threads involving competing technology. I guess there's no denying this thing's potential.

Multitasking on this thing is great, obviously, but I also like the notifications and the communication between a phone running webOS to a tablet running it. Was there more info on the PC's running it and how they would communicate?

Apparently they're very focused on cloud data also, which I used to not be so sold on before, but has grown on me.

Pricing will be key since it's coming out after the ipad 2 and Xoom, but if it wasn't an issue, right now this is the tablet I would go with from a productivity standpoint. Being able to play games is fine and all, but this thing will shine most with business users I think.

Apple really pushed HP/Palm to step their game up, I love it. Now I can't wait to see Apple's response with the ipad2...
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post #69 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No. This isn't just about new ideas. It's about having a reason to buy into this. I didn't see you give a good reason for doing so. What really compelling reason would people have for buying one of these other than just not liking Apple, or Android, or whatever. They then are buying it for a negative reason. not a positive one. That's a bad reason. It's also a fickle one.

Really, what's so "intriguing about this? Touching two of your devices to send a web page, or an e-mail? Really? I get my e-mails on both devices now. Ad moving a web page, or some other info is nice, but hardly a major leap in usefulness.

For people to move to this, it's got to have something compelling. I see nothing compelling here.

Why do you keep bringing up this stupid touch to transfer thing? I never mentioned it at all. I agree with you on what that brings in real life use.

I didn't give a reason because I'm not selling it. ******

What HP is doing with webOS is intriguing because they will have control and webOS seems fairly polished. There is so much we don't know yet though, I can't draw conclusions.

I just think HP maybe has the first shot at a winning combination to compete with apple.

So much left to see, regarding the devs and content providers and the access HP will provide them and at what cost....

There is so much up in the air, but your dismissal seems as fickle and presumptuous as it would be for someone to claim this is going to be better than apple's offerings.
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post #70 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:27pm
Rubinstein is HP's tool.
Total Apple rip off from top to bottom. Just look at that Rubinstein up there thinking he's Steve Jobs. That was probably his dream for years. But as soon as those honeycomb tablets drop all over the place that webos tablet will be toast cause the honeycomb tablets will be cheap as a 25 cent crack *****! Believe that. Rubinstein will be shown the door soon after. He and Palm were brought in just so HP can get so street creed in tablets.
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post #71 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Looks interesting, if anything... they made it look like yet another iPad clone.

We have to get past this 'ipad clone' thing. All tablets from now on will look more or less the same - basically a flat screen with some very few discreet ports / controls on the bezel. The criticism is pointless.

I am not sure if HP can gain enough traction to make WebOS take off but I would not count them out. In a few years WebOS could well be an OS force on par with OSX, WinOS and Chrome / Android OS. We have only just left the starting gate.
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post #72 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

The pad's nice, the phone lame.

short and true lol

The slide out keyboard is a turn off for a lot of people. Would have been nice to see a version without the keyboard altogether, in favor of a thinner device...
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post #73 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

You mean like the email application that looks almost 100% like the one on the iPad. But you would certainly say, that all email apps look the same. And like every other device on earth it has a dock... Yeah, really no alternatives to all that.

Bad thing is, they are not even good at copying... the email app has all the buttons on the bottom of the screen... try to use those while having the device sitting in the lap. A good copy is not all that easy it seems.

I'm drowning in the sarcasm. But yes, I would say a dock is a pretty universal idea. Dock, taskbar, call it what you will it's just an obvious idea. Every culture on earth invented the wheel, or did they all just copy the first guy? Some ideas are just blindingly obvious.
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post #74 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Are these specs confirmed? You mean they really try to clone the iPad and then use a TN panel? I am not interested in the device, but I certainly hope that is not true.

It's on their website.

http://www.palm.com/us/products/pads...pad/index.html
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post #75 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't see any of this doing well. Not a single thing that wasn't "cute" as a new feature. Touching devices is cute, but not very useful. And that was the biggest feature update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What was there about the tablet that got to you? I couldn't find anything. Same screen size. same resolution, but in obsolete 18 bit color. Really, these days on a tablet? I guess the screen was cheaper.

The rest of the features looked as though they came out of a rumors site for the iPad2, except that there's only one camera, for video calls. Otherwise, nothing of note.

I noticed the 18-bit color thing too -- Odd to skimp on that! Maybe they're using iPad display rejects

On the live blog I was following:

Quote:
11:46
[Comment From Gues]
@Jason Snell @jniccolai any feature or features you want to really try out if and when you get a hands on?
11:46
Jason Snell: I like to check scrolling responsiveness, using the app stacks, getting a general feel of how snappy the thing feels. Ability to scroll seamlessly would seem to be table stakes, yet lots of devices utterly fail with juddery scrolling.

... so not a lot of exciting new stuff!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post

It doesn't have to be all-new ideas, features. Apple has never been feature-centric.

The interesting thing here is HP taking control of the software.

You dont have to make brand new eye poping features, you need to make your features work better than your competitors.

WebOS may or may not be able to do that, but this is the first truly intriguing, non-apple entry into the mobile space in the last couple years in my mind.


To bad that the WebOS isn't ready for shipment. That is somewhat surprising. What have they been doing?

HP does have an advantage that they build the hardware and, now, the software -- so they should be able to emulate Apple's tight integration.

But, they need to provide the potential customer -- a reason to wait and a reason to buy.

I just don't see that in any of the tablets that are being announced.

The iPad 1 doesn't have all the features and potential of some of these "coming" tablets -- but it's a helluva lot better than a spit and a promise!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #76 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

This would be more like the anti-Linux, so I don't think the analogy applies.

I don't think Chrome is going anywhere, either, but, there's a whole group of people out there who are totally and completely afraid to use their computers. A lot of them are people who didn't grow up with computers (for example, many "grandparents" today). But, they'd like to be able to load their pictures onto their computers, email them to friends and relatives, do a little light web browsing now and then, video chat with the grandkids, and so on. A desktop or laptop form factor with the simplicity of iOS would have a certain appeal to these people. They could care less about Microsoft Office, and would be very happy for someone to tell them they don't need it.

I think it's a fairly small market. Hp will really have to push this in a big way. The only things it has going for it is the Hp name, and the shelf space it will get them.
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post #77 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

Isn't it funny how this is always the case...until Apple comes up with something!?

Tablets are a very simple thing. Just a window into the software. They will tend to look alike, Apple or not.
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post #78 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I noticed the 18-bit color thing too -- Odd to skimp on that! Maybe they're using iPad display rejects

On the live blog I was following:



... so not a lot of exciting new stuff!





To bad that the WebOS isn't ready for shipment. That is somewhat surprising. What have they been doing?

HP does have an advantage that they build the hardware and, now, the software -- so they should be able to emulate Apple's tight integration.

But, they need to provide the potential customer -- a reason to wait and a reason to buy.

I just don't see that in any of the tablets that are being announced.

The iPad 1 doesn't have all the features and potential of some of these "coming" tablets -- but it's a helluva lot better than a spit and a promise!

Dont get me wrong, I think the vague availability and no pricing an such is poor execution, but there really is no "need to wait" this market is going to be growing for some time.

What they need to do is come correct when they do release it. Including the pricing. Like I said above, there is still A LOT to learn about this thing.

But this is quite a bit bigger to me than anything RIM or various OEM/plastered with androids have brought to the table in my mind.
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post #79 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

It's not surprising to see some people trying their hardest to dismiss this thing as a failure before it even gets out of the gate, but I'm pleased to see that this attitude isn't as abundant as it is in other threads involving competing technology. I guess there's no denying this thing's potential.

Multitasking on this thing is great, obviously, but I also like the notifications and the communication between a phone running webOS to a tablet running it. Was there more info on the PC's running it and how they would communicate?

Apparently they're very focused on cloud data also, which I used to not be so sold on before, but has grown on me.

Pricing will be key since it's coming out after the ipad 2 and Xoom, but if it wasn't an issue, right now this is the tablet I would go with from a productivity standpoint. Being able to play games is fine and all, but this thing will shine most with business users I think.

Apple really pushed HP/Palm to step their game up, I love it. Now I can't wait to see Apple's response with the ipad2...

It isn't whether it is good or not. It seems pretty good. but being good isn't good enough. It's been agreed that WP7 is pretty good, but it's not been selling well. The original WebOS was pretty good, but it failed.

It has to have more than more popular, established devices to make a dent. Does this have that? I don't think so.
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post #80 of 198
2/9/11 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I think it's a fairly small market. Hp will really have to push this in a big way. The only things it has going for it is the Hp name, and the shelf space it will get them.

Yeah, I don't have a real sense of exactly how big a market this is. It's definitely there, and I don't think it's tiny, but is it big enough to be worth getting into? I guess we'll see. I do think that if Apple decided to go into this market they would have a much better shot than HP at succeeding in it, so, perhaps the fact they haven't means it's not viable given the size of the target demographic, or maybe they just haven't gotten to it yet. (But, I don't see a merger between iOS and Mac OS, if Apple offered this, I think it would be as an alternative desktop/laptop experience (without touchscreen), not instead of the current one, at least not any time soon.)
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