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Nokia ditches Symbian, embraces Microsoft Windows Phone for new handsets - Page 2

post #41 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolbolas View Post

you mean like Apple?

i do not know much on this topic, so i won't say more- but MS and Apple did partner... at multiple points (some good for Apple, some bad, very very bad)


anyways, i think this is good news, as Android doesn't need more confusion- if Nokia does fairly well, i wouldn't be supprised if MS decided to only let Nokia use Windows Moblie, creating 5 large groups
A- RIM... dying as of know... lets see with the new OS
B- Apple... very successful staying that way for all the foreseeable future and beyond
C- HP... provided they understand that having a phone with no keyboard will probably sell better, i could see that taking off + having the OS work on windows PC's, making something like the App store.
D- android... i do agree that it will cost money sooner or later, and that googles regulation policies (or should i say lack of) to power of phones, and the android (idk what its called) store will bring it down
E- Nokia/Window Mobile... from all the friends that i know who have gotten a windows mobile phone, including one who switched from an IPhone to note, they all like it, aside from from the much smaller selection of Apps as of know. So it seems like it has a good user interface (i haven't used it myself, so i won't comment personally, that is my exp with friends) and other things like that. I think it will become a major player.

I personally think that if RIM doesn't get its buissness market back up, it will cease to be a player, if it can keep it back up, and hold it, i think that the mainstream market will turn into 3 (4) major camps
1- Apple/HP- control both the phones hardware, and the software, allowing them to bargain with the companies they want to sell them through. i would estimate this would be 40-50% of the market. unless Apple makes a cheaper IPhone, and HP making a phone without a keyboard.
2- Android- confusion, confusion, confusion, but cheapest still, running on cheap hardware well costing the phone companies/mfrs a small amount (less than WM, which would be with Nokia in this scenario) of money as possible. As well as apps that run on some phones but not others etc. probably controlling a 20-30% of the market.
3- WM+Nokia. like Apple/HP in a way, but the software is developed however MS wants it, and the hardware however Nokia wants it, with minimum specs universal. This would not be as good as an enviroment as Apple/HP but would probably have a price advantage (over Apple, not sure of HP) thanks to lower margin. controlling 20-40% of the market

Yes, like 1990's Apple.
post #42 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

They killed Symbian not Meego so they could ship their Meego tablet whenever they want. Elop indicated that there would be a 2011 MeeGo product and it wouldn't be a smartphone.

The next tablet is likely ARM based like the N900 with a 7" display running MeeGo sometime in mid 2011. Not 18 months from now.

MeeGo seems the only credible alternative, but who wants a tablet with a unique OS on it? Who will develop for MeeGo, given the vast plethora of existing proven environments? And as a user, whether you pick Apple/Google/HP/Rim or whoever, I am willing to bet that people want to keep within the same stable of products. As a percentage, I am sure there are next to no iPhone 4 users who want to use a Playbook, or Rim users who want a Galaxy Tab, or Android phone owners who want an iPad. Whatever your preference, it's likely that it's consistent over phones and tablets. I would not want a tablet no matter how good, if it did not integrate well with my other systems. I know that for my platform of choice, stuff I buy and use will work on all my kit. But for Nokia (and indeed all Win 7 manufacturers) there is no consistent platform, just a mishmash of products. And the other guys have the advantage of sticking their fingers in all the pies, so whilst Motorola (for example) cannot provide a phone/tablet Win 7 environment, they can do that with their Android divisions.
post #43 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

They killed Symbian not Meego so they could ship their Meego tablet whenever they want. Elop indicated that there would be a 2011 MeeGo product and it wouldn't be a smartphone.
The next tablet is likely ARM based like the N900 with a 7" display running MeeGo sometime in mid 2011. Not 18 months from now.

True. I can't imagine it's going to be anything but a stop-gap solution until Microsoft can provide them with an ARM tablet OS.

Or maybe they will just tell Microsoft to move WP7 to a tablet. I wouldn't be surprised if they had that kind of power in this relationship.












Quote:
Originally Posted by stuffe View Post

And what OS will they use? Windows Phone 7 Series Tablet edition? I think not. MS are simply not going to tread on Windows toes by upscaling the mobile OS into form factors that they want to put Windows on instead.

For Nokia probably a customized Win 8 core running on ARM SoC with the tablet shell UI plugged in. I'm not sure about the App Store, (probably Silverlight 5 though) and from memory the OEMs (I this case Nokia) take a cut.
post #44 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

For Nokia probably a customized Win 8 core running on ARM SoC with the tablet shell UI plugged in. I'm not sure about the App Store, (probably Silverlight 5 though) and from memory the OEMs (I this case Nokia) take a cut.

Possible, but that will be another boat missed by the time there is anything remotely credible shipping, and when it does it will be a V1 product entering into a market thats already mature. They will have the same issues as with the Win 7 phones, no momentum, everyone got their first, and they will likely enter the market with a product that only just matches the capabilities of products released years previously. It's a bad wind. It doesn't matter how good this speculative future product might be, and it doesn't matter a whole lot how good Win phone 7 is NOW (Good, I would say), because they missed the boat big time, and are playing catchup against people that not only have a head start, but are continuing innovating at a faster rate than they can catch up at. It's already lost from a market perspective, and most likely from a profit one too.
post #45 of 266
I think they would have better chance of success had they gone with HP and WebOS.
post #46 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

Its like an episode of House M.D. where a parasite has been inadvertantly keeping you alive when you should have been dead a long time ago, yet at the same time the parasite is adsorbing so much of your resources that you are now at its mercy and can no longer survive without it. See where Im going with this?

No, please elaborate. Who's the parasite and who's the host?
post #47 of 266
"Proven ability to execute" - it sounds like Microsoft's sales pitch was based on their past success on the desktop. But a mobile phone is something you carry on your person, which brings in elements of taste and style which a desktop computer running Office apps in a cubicle does not need. That is an important difference, and I wonder if Microsoft does indeed have a proven ability to execute in the space Nokia needs them to. Or is it true (as Steve Jobs said in the 80s) that MS just "have no taste?"
post #48 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

MS to Nokia: Youve got the looks, Ive got the brains, lets waste lots of money.

MS has the brains in this scenario??!! Did Ballmer quit?
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post #49 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

MS has the brains in this scenario??!! Did Ballmer quit?

I was using a looser definition of HW and SW. Technically, even trolls have brains, even if they arent well crafted or useful brains.
post #50 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by msuberly View Post

Symbian was about on par with PalmOS. They were good OSes in their heyday but died a slow painful death. If Palm hung onto PalmOS too long, then Nokia really held onto Symbian too long.

I am surprised Nokia went with Microsoft and not Google. Windows Phone 7 offers all the disadvantages of Android but at a cost.

I'm wondering if they are paying. The article said that that "Bing will power Nokias search services across Nokia devices and services." It sounds to me like that will include their feature phones and not just their smart phones running Windows Phone 7. I am thinking that may be enough for Microsoft to forgo it's normal licensing fees.
post #51 of 266
So this is it then! Nokia get's finally ballmered!
post #52 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Project2501 View Post

I guess Nokia didn't want to be just another android company. Is there really anything to differentiate ones products in Android camp. I think consumers are more loyal to Android, than single manufacturer.

How do you differentiate yourself in the Windows cloner market?

What does Microsoft get out of this...
1) another paying licensee of their failed Windows Phone OS
2) sell Nokia developers IDE, OSes, Databases,etc....
3) force their online services on Nokia users

basically a big pay day.

What does Nokia get out of this....
1) pay Microsoft for Window Phone OS
2) become a clone maker with nothing to differentiate themselves from other Windows Phone OS suckers, i mean clone makers
3) front row seat to watch Microsoft make money hand over fist while they race to the bottom in competition with other clone makers.

There is nothing here which will benefit Nokia. It is as if the Microsoft guy they got is on a mission to destroy the company so it could be bought by Microsoft in the future so Microsoft can back stab their partners and release their own phone.
post #53 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolbolas View Post

I personally think that if RIM doesn't get its buissness market back up, it will cease to be a player, if it can keep it back up, and hold it, i think that the mainstream market will turn into 3 (4) major camps
1- Apple/HP- control both the phones hardware, and the software, allowing them to bargain with the companies they want to sell them through. i would estimate this would be 40-50% of the market. unless Apple makes a cheaper IPhone, and HP making a phone without a keyboard.
2- Android- confusion, confusion, confusion, but cheapest still, running on cheap hardware well costing the phone companies/mfrs a small amount (less than WM, which would be with Nokia in this scenario) of money as possible. As well as apps that run on some phones but not others etc. probably controlling a 20-30% of the market.
3- WM+Nokia. like Apple/HP in a way, but the software is developed however MS wants it, and the hardware however Nokia wants it, with minimum specs universal. This would not be as good as an enviroment as Apple/HP but would probably have a price advantage (over Apple, not sure of HP) thanks to lower margin. controlling 20-40% of the market

What I find interesting about that is that it puts the market in a similar place as to what we see today with computers.

We see Apple who continues making their own hardware and software as always (based on OS X), a linux platform (Android) that is all over the place, somewhat clunky, and free; and Windows which is a little more well put together than Android (Linux) but not necessarily tied to one device, and isn't free.

Then we see a bunch of other smaller competing systems like WebOS that could either do well or fizzle out depending on their market presence.
post #54 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

I was using a looser definition of HW and SW. Technically, even trolls have brains, even if they arent well crafted or useful brains.

Ballmer's biggest mistake was to underestimate Apple's ability to enter the smartphone market successfully... and underestimate is an understatement.

Now Ballmer is looking for WP7 sales people and I would guess that Nokia is getting a deal to hock MS sw.

This deal puts both MS and Nokia on better footing but, imo, that's like saying you're stuck on a cliff ledge, your safety line just broke and you were able to put one foot on the 3 inch lip instead of the 2 inch lip.
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post #55 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by pembroke View Post

"Ecosystems thrive"?
> W T F does that mean to 99% of phone Users? Enough already, with 'Ecosystem'. Can't we just use the term "integrated services"?

"Fuelled by speed, innovation and scale"
> trite verbal diarrhoea.

"proven ability to execute"
> WTF does that mean - could it be that they "sell lots of units"? For goodness sake. And how is it proven? How well are WP7 and Nokia units selling these days?

When any CEO starts talking platitudinous business-speak that only underscores the weakness of the point trying to be made - and the weakness of the CEO.


I enjoy being angry, btw

I bet Ballmer had to look the word 'innovation' up!
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post #56 of 266
Based on the alternatives, it is hard to see what better move Nokia could have made, there are no easy way out of the situation they are in; I consider it a fact that Symbian is dead.

Going with MS they may be able to work out a deal where they will have an identity as THE MS OS phone, be a part of an ecosystem, and still keep a separate identity, I believe this would be a benefit to both MS and Nokia, and I think they both need it which may result in a MS more humble than they traditionally have been.

As another Droid phone they would, like all the other Droid phones, slowly loose their identity, and be just another piece of hardware subject to the whims of Google; to most people the perception is to buy either iPhone or just any Droid, not a specific Droid. None of my friends having Droid tells me they have a HTC or a Samsung, they tell me they have a Droid, this leads me to believe that we will se quality brands like HTC and Samsung decline in favor of no-brand phones. (Assuming HTC is a quality brand, I had two pre Droids, and they certainly were not quality!)

Also I believe you have to factor in the Finnish spirit into this, I have been doing business with the Finns for years, they are way above most nations in education and organization, thru a very dramatic history they are used to be alone or end up in bad company having to make the best of it (WW2, the Soviet Union, Swedish domination), and they simply don't give up.

Nokia is not dead, they will take a hit short term because nobody will buy Symbian now, so they don't have a lot of time, but I have no doubt they will be a force in the future. This is good news for everybody, we need the competition.
post #57 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

Based on the alternatives, it is hard to see what better move Nokia could have made, there are no easy way out of the situation they are in; I consider it a fact that Symbian is dead.

Going with MS they may be able to work out a deal where they will have an identity as THE MS OS phone, be a part of an ecosystem, and still keep a separate identity, I believe this would be a benefit to both MS and Nokia, and I think they both need it which may result in a MS more humble than they traditionally have been.

As another Droid phone they would, like all the other Droid phones, slowly loose their identity, and be just another piece of hardware subject to the whims of Google; to most people the perception is to buy either iPhone or just any Droid, not a specific Droid. None of my friends having Droid tells me they have a HTC or a Samsung, they tell me they have a Droid, this leads me to believe that we will se quality brands like HTC and Samsung decline in favor of no-brand phones. (Assuming HTC is a quality brand, I had two pre Droids, and they certainly were not quality!)

Also I believe you have to factor in the Finnish spirit into this, I have been doing business with the Finns for years, they are way above most nations in education and organization, thru a very dramatic history they are used to be alone or end up in bad company having to make the best of it (WW2, the Soviet Union, Swedish domination), and they simply don't give up.

Nokia is not dead, they will take a hit short term because nobody will buy Symbian now, so they don't have a lot of time, but I have no doubt they will be a force in the future. This is good news for everybody, we need the competition.

I'd second your opinion of the Finns, great people. I worked with a company there and had many trips I fondly remember ... actually now I think about it most of those trips are a bit hazy. Boy can those guys and gals hold their liquor!
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post #58 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

Ouch! Nokia isnt doing so hot in the stock market: http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3ANOK

First of all, MS isnt in decline. They are still growing their revenue and profits at a rate that outpaces the market each quarter.

Second, the strategy of two less successful companies combining to compete better against others in a market segment isnt uncommon, isnt a bad move in and of itself, and has proven to be hugely successful in the past.

Overall, I think WebOS would have been a better option, just as I think Android would have been a better option (but with a unique but steady UI that allowed for Nokia to differentiate itself, have its one Nokia Android app store that it approved and vetted, but not disallow other Android apps). The problem with these for Nokia is the problem theyve had with Symbian, Meego, Ovi and every other piece of code they suck at it. At least with WP7 they are paying MS for making an OS. And because of the WP7 sales being lower than expected MS needs them, too. This could work.

M$ is in decline, but they have some cash cows and no real competition in certain places where they still have a monopoly. But everyone now knows they can't innovate and they can't be trusted. All their ventures outside of Windows/Office have failed or lost money.
post #59 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Holy crap! It always made sense but I really had a feeling Nokia wouldn't go for it.

I suppose Nokia must have seen what most people see once they play with a WP7... it's the best mobile phone OS sans a bunch of tick-box features and a more solid App Store.

Unfortunately there is a whole lot more to a mobile platform than simply having the best mobile phone OS like worldwide sales channels, mind share, confidence in the company, integration with other hardware and mobile devices and so on.

Some of this Nokia can provide like relationships with sales channels and some mind share. I'm impressed that Nokia are backing themselves. I wonder if they will re-brand? Having "Windows" in the name of a consumer phone kind of sucks!

Some Microsoft can provide. The early update being distributed (Apple style) by Microsoft through the Zune client is a big bonus.

However some things are still totally lacking like the solid 3rd party hardware and integration iDevices enjoy as well as a Windows tablet that can actually compete with the iPad.

Interesting times people, interesting times!

I've played with WP7 and I don't like it at all. It has lots of eye-candy, but it's confusing, un-intuitive, and disjointed. Half the standard 'apps' I tried didn't work right or were useless. If this is the best they can do, then Apple has no worries from WP7.
post #60 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

smart move for Nokia, and great news for MS.

The next platform to die will probably be RIM's. My guess is RIM will go with Android.

I'm surprised by the level of commitment HP is showing to WebOS, but I suspect that no matter how well they execute, WebOS will lose due to what is essentially a very late start from scratch.

So we will end up with three platforms, iOS, Windows, and Android. My guess is that in the long run Apple and MS will have roughly equal shares of the market (maybe 25-30 percent each) while Android will take the rest (40-50 percent). Apple will be the most profitable, MS the second, and Android will be a failure from the perspective of a Google shareholder as I think Google will lose control of the platform. Android will become the "generic" platform embraced by no-name producers, and those producers may frequently choose to eschew Google services, particularly in the emerging markets.

I don't agree. I think we'll see a 4-way share: RIM, WP7, iOS, Android. Apple will enjoy the high end and all the profits, RIM will continue to have success in the business market where IT likes complexity and micromanagement, Android will have Droid fans who think it's "open" and will compete with Apple in market share but not revenue, and then WP7 will pick up the low end of the market for all those that don't know any better; and M$ will be the only WP7 'partner' making money - well, after loosing money on it for 5+ years first.
post #61 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

MS to Nokia: Youve got the looks, Ive got the brains, lets waste lots of money.

You just told everyone how old you are.... Well, at least all of us that are old enough to know the reference.
post #62 of 266
Bunch of absolute muppets at Nokia, they have been completely and uttlerly stitched up and ass raped by Microsoft and there new CEO who came from there and is likely still under contract with Microsoft.

Windows Phone 7 is without a shadow of a doubt completely and utterly shit.

Nokia is doomed, I have not seen such a stupid decision in a long long long time. Bunch of fucking idiots the lot of them. I've always been happy with my Nokia phones i've used in the past, but i've yet to own a smartphone from them and looks like i never will.
post #63 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I tend to agree with this assessment. I'm not sure why everyone else is being so positive about it.

This feels like a takeover to me, even at this distance. I think that "up close" in Helsinki they are probably not going to react very well at all. We are talking about *the* national company here, I don't think the majority of the folks that use Nokia products, let alone the huge portion of the population that works there, is going to see this as good news.

It seems likely that vast numbers of Nokia smartphone users will jump ship. It seems likely also that the clash of cultures and what appears to be an outside hostile takeover of the beloved national company is going to cause some major waves as well.

By the time they get it all sorted out it will be too late and too many people will have left. At the very least we are going to see a years worth of "integration" while Windows Phone 7 is re-done so it works internationally.

This is horrible news for Nokia. They are going to be eviscerated because they bought into a crazy pipe dream of Win Phone 7 dominance that was sold to them by the oldest group of snake-oil salesmen in the business.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I fear for Nokia. I've owned many Nokia phones in the past, and I'd probably still have a Nokia were it not for the iPhone. They needed to act fast to compete with the iPhone instead of criticizing it, but they didn't, and now this M$ deal isn't going to help them, likely it'll make things worse.
post #64 of 266
I don't know why people keep talking about WP7's demise. Android sales sucked for a while too. Why? Phone manufacturers take their time in adopting a new platform. Once manufacturers start pumping out WP7 phones, they will sell. Consumers can only buy what's on the market, and Nokia's good at pumping out phones.

Nokia adopting WP7 is good for the market. It basically ensures that Android won't become as dominant as Windows and that's good news for companies that do not share their OS (Apple, RIM, and now HP). With market share split, no one should be at risk of losing developers to the most dominant OS and gives Apple the chance to remain the most profitable for developers. A competitive phone OS market is the best thing possible for Apple at this point in time.

As phone OS's and smartphones get more powerful, watch for them to enter the PC market (HP already suggested WebOS is going to the PC, but we don't know in what capacity) or for phones to be classified as PC's. Either way, it's not that unthinkable that the days of Windows PC domination may be numbered. These are exciting times.
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post #65 of 266
Nokia really is an example of a company started by visionaries, and killed by idiots. Jobs won't be around forever, and this could be the future of Apple someday. I don't think any company is immune to having numskulls drive it into the ground.
post #66 of 266
I disagree at this point if I were a handset manufacturer I would not go anywhere near Android. Android is splintering into an unorganized mess.

I agree WP 7 needs more work. But this is a fresh start for both MS and Nokia. Together they can have both the advantages of the Android model and Apple's model.

Nokia and MS can build a stable organized platform across many different types of phones and many different price points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

If the choice was between Android and Windows, I would have went with Android. Windows 7 is a big improvement over previous attempts, but Microsoft has been very slow to bring to market improvements. Further, it is years behind.
post #67 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarky View Post

Bunch of absolute muppets at Nokia, they have been completely and uttlerly stitched up and ass raped by Microsoft and there new CEO who came from there and is likely still under contract with Microsoft.

So true!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarky View Post

Windows Phone 7 is without a shadow of a doubt completely and utterly shit.

hmmm... not so much
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarky View Post

Nokia is doomed, I have not seen such a stupid decision in a long long long time. Bunch of fucking idiots the lot of them.

True again.

2 out of 3 aint bad
post #68 of 266
This is a lot of pessimism with no evidence to support it. MS has given no indication that they are taking over Nokia. MS doesn't have any expertise in making phones, so how are they going to run Nokia?

We've seen what lengths Apple has had to go to learn how to make phones. MS hasn't done any of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I tend to agree with this assessment. I'm not sure why everyone else is being so positive about it.

By the time they get it all sorted out it will be too late and too many people will have left. At the very least we are going to see a years worth of "integration" while Windows Phone 7 is re-done so it works internationally.

This is horrible news for Nokia. They are going to be eviscerated because they bought into a crazy pipe dream of Win Phone 7 dominance that was sold to them by the oldest group of snake-oil salesmen in the business.
post #69 of 266
Come on, Windows phone 7 is ugly as sin.

I don't know anyone who would actually want one.

A windows phone 7 handset is worth maybe $200, but not high end at all. Can get a proper phone for that
post #70 of 266
This isn't true. Nokia will have direct input into WP. MS will tailor WP to Nokia's line of phones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

How do you differentiate yourself in the Windows cloner market
post #71 of 266
Its a lot more organized than the widgets floating around the Android screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarky View Post

Come on, Windows phone 7 is ugly as sin.

I don't know anyone who would actually want one.

A windows phone 7 handset is worth maybe $200, but not high end at all. Can get a proper phone for that
post #72 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

It is as if the Microsoft guy they got is on a mission to destroy the company so it could be bought by Microsoft in the future so Microsoft can back stab their partners and release their own phone.

Wow, now that you mention it, I can really see this trajectory, although that's probably not the official plan (and Nokia is already pretty cheap--Apple could buy it with their cash reserves and still have many billions left over, if they wanted to).

It's interesting to see what Helsinki-based blogger/analyst (and former Nokia employee) Horace Dediu has to say about this deal:
http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-...bile-partners/
post #73 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarky View Post

Nokia, they have been completely and uttlerly stitched up and ass raped by Microsoft

Wow, tell us what you really think
post #74 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

So one declining giant embracing another.....

Isn't it amazing that two companies that struggle with change think that together they will create something better?

[cough] HP/Compaq [cough]
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post #75 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Isn't it amazing that two companies that struggle with change think that together they will create something better?

[cough] HP/Compaq [cough]

It seems that no matter what they companies do pretty much everyone here will say its the wrong move. If we say that both MS and Nokia are going into an eventual dead ends by themselves why do we say that by teaming up and feeding off each others strengths they are still heading in the wrong directions. A relevant example is Apple and NeXT, but faltering in their own ways were able to make a success from the union. Why do we say that HP buying Palm will have to be a disaster? Why does Nokia and MS have to be a disaster? Just because not all mergers and symbiotic business relationships have proven to be successful compared to the competition? That isnt a solid argument for me. This is certainly better than what they had going before.
post #76 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

True. I can't imagine it's going to be anything but a stop-gap solution until Microsoft can provide them with an ARM tablet OS.

Or maybe they will just tell Microsoft to move WP7 to a tablet. I wouldn't be surprised if they had that kind of power in this relationship.

By the time they can get a tablet released WinPhone 7 might even have copy and paste.

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post #77 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

It seems that no matter what they companies do pretty much everyone here will say its the wrong move. If we say that both MS and Nokia are going into an eventual dead ends by themselves why do we say that by teaming up and feeding off each others strengths they are still heading in the wrong directions. A relevant example is Apple and NeXT, but faltering in their own ways were able to make a success from the union. Why do we say that HP buying Palm will have to be a disaster? Why does Nokia and MS have to be a disaster? Just because not all mergers and symbiotic business relationships have proven to be successful compared to the competition? That isnt a solid argument for me. This is certainly better than what they had going before.

The difference is this:

Apple + Next involved Steve Jobs

Microsoft + Nokia involves Steve Ballmer (or just M$ in general)

Nuff said...

(if that isn't enough for you then read the blog with the link posted by Retrogusto - http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-...bile-partners/ )
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post #78 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by msuberly View Post

Symbian was about on par with PalmOS. They were good OSes in their heyday but died a slow painful death. If Palm hung onto PalmOS too long, then Nokia really held onto Symbian too long.

I am surprised Nokia went with Microsoft and not Google. Windows Phone 7 offers all the disadvantages of Android but at a cost.

I think they may have faceplanted into an iceberg while jump from the burning platform towards the icy waters. If they survive the head trauma, maybe the iceberg will provide stable land for them.
post #79 of 266
I've been giving this some thought and reading all the comments. I still think this move won't be good for Nokia, but it might be good for M$. Here's what I think:
  • There are only two companies with unified strategies: Apple/iOS, HP/WebOS
  • There are only three companies that can differentiate themselves from the vast ocean of "me too" products: Apple, HP, RIM
  • Android is fragmented. They've already lost control of the platform. That doesn't mean it won't keep selling however. But it is a race to the bottom.
  • WP7 is just another "me too" platform, and also a race to the bottom.
  • Apple will retain the high end, the quality device, and the profits. They will continue setting the bar high and everyone else will race to catch up.
  • HP stands a chance at success. We'll have to wait and see. I hope so. I would love to see HP be Apple's main competitor.
  • RIM is the only other that makes the whole widget, but they seem lost. I don't know what will happen to them.
  • Android and WP7 will duke it out on hundreds of underwhelming devices that plenty of sheeple will buy. Droid fans will scream "it's open" and M$ fans will still be clueless.

In a nutshell: Apple stays Apple. HP & RIM duke it out. Android & WP7 duke it out. Two possible outcomes:
  1. We'll have a 5-way tie, with 20% market share each.
  2. Apple/iOS, HP/WebOS, Google/Android win, each with 33% share, while RIM & WP7 die, but M$ keeps pumping $ into WP7 for 20 years while remaining in denial.
post #80 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by battlehamster View Post

I think they may have faceplanted into an iceberg while jump from the burning platform towards the icy waters. If they survive the head trauma, maybe the iceberg will provide stable land for them.

Actually... it's more like Nokia was able to land on an iceberg only to see M$ Titanic heading straight at it!
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  • Nokia ditches Symbian, embraces Microsoft Windows Phone for new handsets
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