Apple to expand reach with new smaller iPhone, enhanced MobileMe - Page 3

Good observation. The iPod Nano may well have been a trial run of the design and is likely the device that will be most cannibalized.

I wonder if it is going anywhere in the way the rumor suggests. The last time there were considerable rumors of a mini iPhone, the previous generation device was simply offered at a lower price, which seemed to do the job of getting price-conscious buyers in. A 3GS 8GB is still available for $49.99, even less for refurbished ones. That's less than the minimum monthly service cost, I pay $60/mo for the minimum tier data and voice package. This means that users still have access to the iOS ecosystem without serious restrictions or developer rework to support the less expensive model.

The way I see it, it's more plausible that there is consideration of developing a feature phone with a significant UI rework (like someone suggested in the current nano). That's the only way to get it so that US carriers will offer it at no cost other than the contract.

here my take , i strongly believe Apple will not let go for the current screen size . Their entire App eco system is built around it .

I think the iPhone nano will be more like a iPod touch with slightly larger battery , 3G/2G & AGPS . Same Retina like LCD , twin cameras etc ..

Apple has been able to sell the current model iPod Touch profitably at USD 229 , Also dont think the iPhone nano will be USD 200 , my guess is more like USD 300 , which is still a pretty good price without subsidy.


Apple generally does not compromise on a winning formula ... ie. the high res display

Not enough product differentiation and not enough margin after adding all the components needed to make it a phone.

I don't expect to see a lot of third-party software available for the new phone - probably mostly games. This would really be Apple's vision of a feature phone, not some scaled-down iPhone.

They'll call it iPhone 'something'. Apple are like that.

Rumor after rumor, no substantiation, no verification, only 'an undisclosed source' or 'person familiar with the..........'.

Give me a break. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that the next Iphone will have a removable battery and also be solar powered. How do I know? ah come on I cant reveal my source.

Yes, it's only a rumor but it is a rumor that makes some sense.

Everyone seems to think that Apple only gets to where it is by introducing the "next great thing". It does this, but as the company grows, it also takes the opportunity to extend its influence in the markets in which it already competes. Nothing in this rumor suggested that Apple will be chasing after low-margin business, just that they might be willing to forego some margin to achieve volume sales in new and different markets. Heck, the article does not even mention margins, just opportunity.

A good article that is right on point:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20031692-71.html

Lets see... you have been here about a year, now. You DO know this is a rumor site, right?

Besides, this is a good one. True or not, there are enough possibilities here that some posters here have come up with some fascinating and intelligent speculation: 3rd party apps or no? Siri voice control or no? Data plan or no? Free with contract or no? How will MM tie in? Full size screen or no?
About all we do know is this: if they do it, they will have found a way to produce and sell a feature phone that is fundamentally different than what is available in the market now and the margins will not be razor thin. Oh, and it will work as a phone an an iPod.

That is a lot of possibilities to ponder.

Threads like this are exactly why I check AI every day.

Now, it might get tiresome if we see 50 more posts like it before the (supposed) Spring announcement without much new information. Still, the Verizon iPhone rumor must have had at least twice that many stories with "undisclosed sources" but they circled the truth well enough--by the end there was no surprise despite the vehement protest from some that they would believe nothing until Apple announced it.

To sum it up:


*I would add: Can they make Apple margins selling it?

Here's why:

1. The iPhone 4 is too small, and now they are making a smaller phone, instead of making a bigger phone.

2. I'm an iPhone 4 user, and I would prefer an iPhone with a larger screen, similar to the Droid X. Go bigger, not smaller please. This is a hand held computer, and I want my online experience to be as close to the experience of an iPad, without the phone being too big. iPad would be too big.

3. I've played with the Samsung Galaxy. It's the perfect size. It's still rather portable at its size, because it will fit in a back pocket, or jacket pocket. The iPad won't.

4. Navigation: Although the mapping features on the iPhone 4 are good, and the Google Maps sufficient, I've had the pleasure of playing with my girlfriends Droid phone, and the turn by turn directions with voice is far superior. To get those kind of navigational features on the iPhone, you have to pay for some $39.99 to $59.99 app. Sorry!!!! I prefer Google's free navigational offering with all of that stuff build in.

5. Android phones are just about as good. Sure the iPhone is from Apple, and we all love Apple for what it has done for consumer electronics, but the Android phones are a very very close second place. So close in fact, that there really isn't much of a difference other than the "coolness" factor. And...as a matter of fact, I'm not sure the actual phone part of a droid phone might be better, because the iPhone seems to suck as a phone. Great computer. Sucks as a phone.

I could go on and on about Apple and the iPhone. The iPhone is awesome. It's a great pocket computer, but that's about it. It's a terrible phone. I've actually heard they improved the antenna on the Verizon Iphone 4 version, so Verizon won't take the crappy phone hit that ATT took.

If Apple makes an iPhone with a bigger screen, I might stick with it, but I want my phone to be a bit more computer-like...like the Droid X.

OH...and apps. So freakin what, that the Apple app store has hundreds of thousands of apps. I regularly only use about 10 apps that don't come native with a new iPhone. The rest are novelties. They are apps I pay .99 cents for that I get bored with in about a week or two.

Fixed that for you.

Apple might consider making their top-of-the-line phone a bit bigger (or not) but this rumor is about expanding into new market territory with a great number of potential sales - more sales, I bet, than those who would prefer a bigger iPhone,

It is so Freudian I know, however, I read your first sentence as...


Oooo, Ahhh...

I'm allowed tethering and the idea would suit me quite well.

1 & 2 are really the same point. I know I do NOT want a bigger phone. I suppose if Apple could expand the screen real estate without increasing the size of the phone I would like it, but I do not want a bigger phone. And if the bigger screen means shorter battery life, then I have no interest. Period.


If all you want in a tablet is for it to fit in your pocket, by all means get the Galaxy. It remains to be seen what the market thinks of 7 inch tablets. I imagine Apple will pop one out if it looks like people want one (finger sharpening comments be dammed ).


I'm not sure why this belongs in a list detailing how out of touch Apple is. I'm sure Apple would love for Google to provide them with terrific navigation solutions. Not going to happen. There have been rumors that Apple is working on their own navigation solution, but it is not their strong suit at this point.


Are you saying that the iPhone is a terrible phone beyond the limitations of AT&T inside the US? I call BS. First, I have had one for a few years and I have very few phone problems. It has been the best PHONE I have ever owned. Second, if you have a problem with AT&T it is a little late to be using that as the basis of an anti-iPhone list. You did hear about the whole Verizon thing, right?



Again, if the Droid X and the Galaxy are your version of the bees knees, by all means, get them. There is no doubt that these products have features and forms that Apple does not offer. I personally am not interested in a bigger phone or a smaller iPad.

I'm still not sure why you think your list of personal preferences is an indication of Apple being out of touch. I would agree that it proves that some people may desire products that Apple doesn't make, though...

Exactly what I/we are looking for our outside ad-reps.

We know for sure that we're going with the iPad 2, but would prefer to go with the cheaper wi-Fi version rather the 3G. Considering that they are rolling out LTE across the country (Germany) throughout the year.

Naturally, we need to have a mobile-internet connection of some kind, so a "smart phone", or at least one that can tether (again... inexpensive) is a must... or we were even considering a mobile 3g modem from Huawei.

An iPhone Nano would be EXACTLY what we're looking for, with tethering, and simple telephony/contact stuff. Everything else is done on the iPad anyway.

The whole Apple "Mobile Solution" set-up looks like it could come in well under $1000.-/Rep.

Not bad IMHO.

Humble perhaps but not lacking wisdom!

This quote should appear in a "reply-snippet" list for the entire AI-Forum!

Well the screen would have to be ~45% of the size of the 3.5" iPhone screen to be comparable to the difference between a 7" tablet and 9.8" iPad.

That would be pretty small, so yes, you would need to file down your fingers to use the screen.

Meh. This article is all wrong. There will be no smaller iPhone and not even an iPhone 5 this year.

There will be an update to the 4 (the 4gs or similar) but the iPhone 5 will be 2012. I don't even see apple releasing a CDMA / gsm combined handset this year either.

I think a lot of these posts are right. My money's on a near bezel-less iphone. Home button is now a little tab on the bottom. A4 processor, low power consumption display at same size and res as 3g/s, lighter weight graphics card that's as good or better as the 3gs'.

This keeps devs writing apps at the old res, so old phones have a longer life and a perceived higher value than flash in the pan Android phones. Probably cheaper parts too.

What I would like to say about what AppleInsider said about what the WSJ said about what another guy said about the iPhone mini, is that I believe it.

So if my battery dies at 2pm, I won't have my warranty? People don't want a removable battery in case it "goes bad". They want one so they can swap batteries out during the day. Not everyone has access to a power receptacle, computer, charger all day long.

The only nugget of possible truth about this form factor isn't the smaller phone, but the screen edge to edge possibility in the upcoming iPhone 5.

That larger screen area will increase the inherent resolution of the display.

One of the smallest smart phones in existence is bulky? I want a bigger iPhone not a smaller one.

At the same time I think an iPhone nano would be fantastic for Apple because it would enable them to draw a whole new demographic into the Apple ecosystem.

I'm with the 71 year old, I want one with the same 640x960 resolution (for compatibility) but in a 5.5" screen. That way it would be readable at a greater distance making it possible to put the darn thing down when using it for an extended period of time. It'd would have amazing battery life similar to the iPad while still fitting in a pocket (same width as an average man's wallet, but much thinner).

I think Apple's iOS business is big enough now for them to branch out and offer a little more choice.

Makes no sense for Apple to release a smaller phone. The savings on Display will not be anywhere near worth it for them to take the risk of fragmenting the iPhone/iPod Touch market.

They have already successfully shown that iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 can coexist without any fragmentation issues. There is one other important thing to remember. It is not so much the cost of making the iPhone that stops Apple from releasing a cheaper unlocked phone. Apple can make a small profit even if they sell the current iPhone 3GS at $200. The more important issue with Apple is to prevent cannibalization. They need to keep the cheaper iPhone different in some significant ways, so that most users would still go for the premium versions. At the same time, these differences should not result in fragmentation.

Some of the ways to prevent cannibalization, without causing fragmentation, are:
- Lesser battery capacity
- Possibly allow only Edge/GPRS usage on the cheaper phone - this will consume lesser battery, allowing Apple to lower battery capacity without impacting usability. Also, this phone is likely to be most attractive in emerging markets like India and China - and in these markets, Edge/GPRS would be a reasonable compromise.
- Use very limited Flash memory. Would lower costs, as well as protect from cannibalization. Even 1GB or 2GB should be more than sufficient.
- Use A4 or A5 processor, but lower the clock speed marginally, or use only single core, etc. Similarly, with the GPU.
- Work with carriers to create data plans that allow low usage at low cost, but would be prohibitively expensive with heavy usage. However this is difficult if the phone is going to be sold unlocked.

At all costs, avoid changes like lowering RAM, lowering display size, removing camera/GPS/accelerometers/proximity sensors/gyroscope etc. Might work to lower camera spec marginally, but I don't think this will save Apple much money.

One other aspect Apple needs to protect themselves against - the components required for this phone should be easily available in massive quantities. There is no point in releasing a cheap unlocked phone if they cannot make it in huge volumes. Also, making this phone should not impact manufacture of the premium iPhone in any way, either in terms of component availablity, or in terms of bandwidth at Foxconn, and other manufacturers.

If properly executed, this phone should ensure that Apple gets close to 15% of the overall mobile phone market by 2012-end, and gets over 40% of the smartphone market. They should also be able to get 65-70% of the profits in the mobile business.

Apple is already the winner in terms of profit share and mindshare. With this move, they could also be the leader in terms of market share. The best part of this phone, is that it will suck the oxygen out of Android. Already, Android manufacturers are indulging in a race to the bottom, and finding it difficult to make money as phones are getting outdated within months of their release! If Apple launches this cheap iPhone, their troubles would get worse.

Ah, you almost figured it out! the new iPhone Nano will REPLACE the iPod Nano. which otherwise has been made unnecessary in the marketplace by the iPod touch (which is actually a mini-iPad).

it'll be a great featurephone. still a really good PMP of course. with blutooth. and FaceTime?

the iPod Shuffle will live on for those who still just want a simple PMP.

I hope to God that wouldn't be designed as a standalone phone, but simply as a wireless companion device that sends you notifications, etc. I'm actually shocked something like this hasn't been designed already, because of its practicality. Why do I need to dig my phone out of my pocket/bag/etc, when I can just glance at my watch to see if its worth doing so? I'd buy one of these in a heartbeat, so would many others.

Forgive my terrible editing skills..

Interesting to look at, but this looks like a premium phone, not a low cost one. Wow, imagine if that were still a retina display on that tiny thing! (Think of the miniaturization costs!)

Either way, I imagine it would not get thinner if all the bezel space was eliminated. With all the phone internals that would still be necessary, where would your battery be?

I can imagine it won't be very comfortable. I took me a little bit just getting used to the iPhone keyboard, I couldn't see it being even smaller.

Apple TV + display + touch + cellular radio = profitable phone at lower cost.

Boy you took out the speaker . Only blue tooth allowed

I hope Apple really improves MobileMe. It needs better performance, Dropbox still trumps iDisk. Even with broadband iDisk is dog sloooooowww.

Gmail email feels faster then MobileMe mail as well. A big issue is when composing an email
and then you hit send, later to realize that some how you took too long writing it and either MobileMe Mail decided you were inactive so you must login again but your email is now gone since you hit send. That's realllly annoying.

Addressbook and Calendar syncing could be better, for some reason not all contacts or events appear after syncing.

My hopes is that Apple buys out Yahoo and puts their engineers to focus on Mobileme or perhaps buy Dropbox or other specialized companies to improve the service.

Joyent looks good.

Here, fixed that for you. Since for a given physical handset you often cannot easily switch carriers in NA, there is much less competition among carriers for cellphone plans not tied to a handset subsidy. The cheapest plan for a smart phone in Germany start at 4 per month.

He didn't remove the speaker of mic, he just has limited PS skills.

I pay for mobile me for email and to a certain extent, storage. However, if apple wants to make mobile me a bigger part of its "ecosystem," it needs to fix the problem with upload speeds. I tried to upload 300 pictures (about half a gig worth of storage) and it uploaded 196 in 6 hours. I gave up after the sixth hour. Normally, I would have given up after 30 minutes but I'm writing a grant proposal and the uploading was taking place in the background.

How about this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klOptnFNgQo

You sound like the Droid is for you. Best move on. All of that rant ( except point 1) is unrelated to this thread.

MobileMe upload speeds are the same as any other uploads for me. Sync problems? None. 90% of the time they happen almost instaneoudsly and the other 10% within minutes. I don't use the web email and I'm not sure I see the advantage of doing so. Having two apple iOS devices and a Mac, the point of MobileMe email is that I can set up each device by simply logging into my MobileMe account once and for all. Then all the native apps, (mail, calendar, contacts, bookmarks) do their thing seamlessly. Why tie yourself to a web portal instead?

Apple buys yahoo? Common now! Do you seriously think apple doesn't have the resources or staff to make improvements to MobileMe? I think you are selling them awfully short. And if apple buys every company suggested here (AT&T so they can become a carrier, Sony for content and gaming, yahoo for sync and cloud, etc) well...need I say more?

The small iPhone can be used as a hotspot device for iPad2. The iPad2 will have a front facing camera for FaceTime. The small iPhone will have cameras like the iPhone 4. The iPad owners can used the small iPhone to take pictures and video. The question is then can the iPad use hotspot to transmit the video of the small iPhone through the FaceTime.