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iOS jailbreakers thwarted by Apple's latest version of iBooks - Page 4

post #121 of 164
2/15/11 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

It most certainly is. Section 8 of Article I.

I stand corrected. thanks
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #122 of 164
2/15/11 at 3:08pm
Quote:
But according to Social Apples, the security measure also prevents users from accessing legally purchased e-books through the iBooks application on a jailbroken device. Though it is a warranty voiding process, the practice of jailbreaking to run unauthorized code was deemed legal by the U.S. government last July.

But blocking people from using legally purchased DRM files on unsupported platforms is also legal.

What, you wanted to crack your cake and eat it too?

Buy used books and always wear white.
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post #123 of 164
2/15/11 at 3:17pm
Granted, this is kind of a snarky move by Apple, but when you choose to take an item outside specifications (even if doing so is legal), you have to deal with the consequences of those actions.

You can't play in the walled garden, hop the fence, and expect to hop back and forth across the fence without some consequences and difficulties.

You are not being denied permanent access to your books. You can restore your iPhone to factory firmware and use your books just fine whenever YOU want.
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post #124 of 164
2/15/11 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

Have you read the terms and conditions that you agreed to before downloading anything from iTunes?

I certainly haven't - but I'd bet my hat that there's a clause in there which allows Apple to do exactly what it's done. The jury might be out on whether it's immoral, but illegal it ain't.

As with any DRM-protected content, you haven't paid for the content. You've paid for a license to make use of it under certain circumstances.

True, but many still refuse to acknowledge reality. ebooks are just like regular books and mp3s are just like CDs, in that you never owned the content just the right to use it. Books you owned the paper not the story, CDs you own the CD no tthe music. People have always had a hard time understanding and accepting this reality in the both analogy and digital worlds.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
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post #125 of 164
2/15/11 at 4:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeltsBear View Post

So Apple is within thier rights to withhold something new that has not been paid for to jailbreakers. Apple is not within thier rights to withhold something that has already been paid for.

Yes they are. Jailbreakers have forfeited rights to their app store purchases because they have broken the contract. Apple is under NO legal obligation to support jailbroken devices or the legitimately purchased apps on them. End of story.
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post #126 of 164
2/15/11 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

So, a 'Pre-emtive strike' on iBooks, for something I may, or may not do in the future; is justification for preventing me from accessing iBooks I have legitimately already paid for? Why not block the iPod functionality - just in case? Why not shut down my phone service, just in case?

Jailbreaking is LEGAL.
Denying me access to material that I have legitimately purchased is ILLEGAL.

Simple enough?

Hodar, Apple is not denying you access to your e-books, you are denying yourself access. Apple has given you a way to view your e-books, you just choose not to use it. That's not Apple's problem, that's your problem.

So here are your choices:
1. Re-install iOS through iTunes and enjoy your books.
2. Don't re-install iOS through iTunes and don't enjoy your books.

Fundamentally, it's your choice.
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post #127 of 164
2/15/11 at 5:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

I bought my iPhone from AT&T for $200
I pay my monthly AT&T bill of $113
I jailbreak my phone

Now, books I have purchased for ~$15 each are not viewable?

How is this not extortion? What I am doing (jailbreaking) is perfectly legal. What Apple has done, is denying me the ability to view a book I have legitimately paid for.

This is nothing short of extortion. Now, this will create a new effort by people to crack the DRM on iBooks; and when the DRM is broken on iBooks - this will create a new Book piracy industry that does not exist today.

As we used to say in grade school - "Nice move, Ex-lax"


a solution is already out....its called 'don't buy apple products'. do your best to get out of the reality distortion field. you will breath easier, have more cash, and have a lot more fun.
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post #128 of 164
2/15/11 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Grain of Salt View Post

Hodar, Apple is not denying you access to your e-books, you are denying yourself access. Apple has given you a way to view your e-books, you just choose not to use it. That's not Apple's problem, that's your problem.

So here are your choices:
1. Re-install iOS through iTunes and enjoy your books.
2. Don't re-install iOS through iTunes and don't enjoy your books.

Fundamentally, it's your choice.

hey kim jong il! when did you move south and start barking orders?
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post #129 of 164
2/15/11 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yensid98 View Post

Yes they are. Jailbreakers have forfeited rights to their app store purchases because they have broken the contract. Apple is under NO legal obligation to support jailbroken devices or the legitimately purchased apps on them. End of story.

apple will be sued over this one. and lose.
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post #130 of 164
2/15/11 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

apple will be sued over this one. and lose.

Nope. And nope.

For several, unrelated reasons.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #131 of 164
2/15/11 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Enjoy not being able to buy books in the future.

Oh yes, I will enjoy not spending one yota of my hard earned money so that any corporation can decide how, where and in which thing I should read it, where I should keep it, and perhaps even retrieve it back with no notice, like amazon already did once.

Until DRM is gone, it's a no brainer for me. And if all world gets crazy and accepts this lunatic status quo, I'll just pirate everything I need.
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post #132 of 164
2/15/11 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

apple will be sued over this one. and lose.

Apple might be sued, but it won't lose. It's clear that an iBook purchase isn't a book, but rather a license to view the digitized content of the book on up to 5 authorized devices. A jailbroken iOS device is not considered authorized, so there's no suit.

This probably wouldn't fly in some other countries that have stronger consumer protection laws, like Brazil, where the terms of service would likely be invalidated. It's how it works here though. As much as that sucks.
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post #133 of 164
2/15/11 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Agreed.

Additionally, people mis-state things when they say that jailbreaking is "legal."

Jailbreaking has not been declared "legal." What happened is that the decision was made that jailbreaking is "not illegal" (provided certain conditions prevail). It may not seem like it but that's a big difference. One of those conditions is that if the purpose of the jailbreaking is itself to break the law or assist in breaking the law, then it's no longer a legal thing to do.

Ridiculous! Something that is not illegal, is legal, by definition. Go educate yourself before stating such obvious nonsensical thing.

If I use a car to steal a bank, does that mean that driving that car is "illegal"?

Quote:
In other words, if your intention when jailbreaking is to get around the DRM on the iBooks store, then it's 100% illegal. Jailbreaking as it currently exists enables one to get around the DRM on the contents of the iBooks store, therefore it enables an illegal act.

If you want to be all technical about it, at least be rigorous. What is illegal here is the pirating, not "getting around the DRM," bla bla bla, or the "jailbraking" bla bla bla.

Quote:
All of this is admittedly quite hazy, but people going on about how "jailbreaking is 100% legal" and that this should somehow trump Apple's attempts to lock down content and so forth are being ignorant at best.

irony is so great on this one, it makes my head asplode.
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post #134 of 164
2/15/11 at 5:56pm
Quote:
"But according to Social Apples, the security measure also prevents users from accessing legally purchased e-books through the iBooks application on a jailbroken device. Though it is a warranty voiding process, the practice of jailbreaking to run unauthorized code was deemed legal by the U.S. government last July."

And therein lies an opportunity for a massive class action lawsuit to happen.
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post #135 of 164
2/15/11 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Without copyright and patent protections in place, the economic incentive for creating content and inventions disappears and you end up with a non-competitive market as developed as Afghanistan.

Unsupportable ideological babble. Do not confuse private property with this shenanigan that is called "intellectual property", whose reasons for existence were not born out of mercantilism but rather of control of the status quo, quite some centuries ago.

The fact that germany got a very interesting 19th century without such arbitrary laws is a testament against the ignorance portrayed in your quote.
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post #136 of 164
2/15/11 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

Jailbreaking is indeed legal. There are no guarantees that all other legitamate functions need to be supported once jailbroken.

In other words, it's also legal for Apple to not fully support JBd devices.

This is the correct interpretation. It's all "legal". It's also shitty.
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post #137 of 164
2/15/11 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Grain of Salt View Post

Hodar, Apple is not denying you access to your e-books, you are denying yourself access. Apple has given you a way to view your e-books, you just choose not to use it. That's not Apple's problem, that's your problem.

So here are your choices:
1. Re-install iOS through iTunes and enjoy your books.
2. Don't re-install iOS through iTunes and don't enjoy your books.

Fundamentally, it's your choice.

Quoted for truth.
/thread.
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post #138 of 164
2/15/11 at 7:42pm
Greenpois0n 4.2.1 - iBooks not working

Redsn0w 0.9.7 (untethered) - iBooks not working

Redsn0w 0.9.6 (tethered) - iBooks working. Just keep hitting OK and eventually the book will open after 5 to 10 tries.

Looks like I'll have to stick with Redsn0w 0.9.6 tethered for now.
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post #139 of 164
2/15/11 at 8:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Greenpois0n 4.2.1 - iBooks not working

Redsn0w 0.9.7 (untethered) - iBooks not working

Redsn0w 0.9.6 (tethered) - iBooks working. Just keep hitting OK and eventually the book will open after 5 to 10 tries.

Looks like I'll have to stick with Redsn0w 0.9.6 tethered for now.

I believe this is now fixed so you can be untethered an keep using the app. And it respects the drm of the iBook.
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post #140 of 164
2/15/11 at 9:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jukes View Post

Apple might be sued, but it won't lose. It's clear that an iBook purchase isn't a book, but rather a license to view the digitized content of the book on up to 5 authorized devices. A jailbroken iOS device is not considered authorized, so there's no suit.

This probably wouldn't fly in some other countries that have stronger consumer protection laws, like Brazil, where the terms of service would likely be invalidated. It's how it works here though. As much as that sucks.

The key is that you are buying a license to view digitalized content. And buy not using Apples IOS there is no protection for the digitalized content. While this move seems unfair its really protection for those that have paid.
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post #141 of 164
2/15/11 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

The key is that you are buying a license to view digitalized content. And buy not using Apples IOS there is no protection for the digitalized content. While this move seems unfair its really protection for those that have paid.

It seems that the fix respects the drm of the iBook so everyone who has paid is protected.
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post #142 of 164
2/15/11 at 11:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisDias View Post

Ridiculous, stupid, ignorant, etc. Something that is not illegal, is legal, by fucking definition. Go educate yourself before stating such obvious nonsensical thing.
What retarded bullshit.
Fuck irony is so great on this one, it makes my head asplode.

Chill
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #143 of 164
2/16/11 at 5:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDreamworx View Post

That's clever!

I think so too. Now if only they'd also do this for all Apple apps e.g. mail and ipod.
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post #144 of 164
2/16/11 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

I bought my iPhone from AT&T for $200
I pay my monthly AT&T bill of $113
I jailbreak my phone

Now, books I have purchased for ~$15 each are not viewable?

How is this not extortion? What I am doing (jailbreaking) is perfectly legal. What Apple has done, is denying me the ability to view a book I have legitimately paid for.

This is nothing short of extortion. Now, this will create a new effort by people to crack the DRM on iBooks; and when the DRM is broken on iBooks - this will create a new Book piracy industry that does not exist today.

As we used to say in grade school - "Nice move, Ex-lax"

when you activated your phone, you agreed to terms that said: "Unauthorized modification of your iPhone software violates the software license agreement." You violated the licensing agreement, not Apple. The code in iBooks is trying to prevent book piracy by blocking a way to bypass the DRM on books.

And the software people install on jailbroken phones, such as Mywi, also violate agreements. MyWi effectively steals service from cell phone companies.

The finger is being pointed in the wrong direction if you think Apple is doing the wrong thing here.
http://www.inktastic.com/
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http://www.inktastic.com/
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post #145 of 164
2/16/11 at 6:26am
I buy my books printed on paper. I like them that way. Apple doesn't make yet more profit out of me and can have no say in how I use what I have legitimately purchased.
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post #146 of 164
2/16/11 at 7:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aderutter View Post

I think so too. Now if only they'd also do this for all Apple apps e.g. mail and ipod.

Why do you care what people do with their phones - especially as it is totally legal? Besides, a work around would be found in a matter of days if not hours.
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post #147 of 164
2/16/11 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Who owns your iPhone??

I own the phone, but I agreed to various conditions when I signed up to use iTunes, to buy things from the iTunes store, and to buy things from the iBooks Store.

If those terms stipulate that if I am running an unauthorised OS version on my device, that I won't be allowed to view content on that device, and I decide that I want to jailbreak my device, I need to accept that I already agreed to those terms, and that I won't be allowed to view the content even if I already paid for it. It's as simple as that.
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post #148 of 164
2/16/11 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I buy my books printed on paper. I like them that way.

I agree, somehow I like to read my books in the paper and not virtual mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Apple doesn't make yet more profit out of me and can have no say in how I use what I have legitimately purchased.

However, even if you purchased your book legally, if it has a copyright, you can't do with it what you want. You can't make copies of it and sell them, you can't make a movie from it and you can't make a pdf version and place it on your website.....so there are certain limitations what you can do with your book.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #149 of 164
2/16/11 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Grain of Salt View Post

Hodar, Apple is not denying you access to your e-books, you are denying yourself access. Apple has given you a way to view your e-books, you just choose not to use it. That's not Apple's problem, that's your problem.

So here are your choices:
1. Re-install iOS through iTunes and enjoy your books.
2. Don't re-install iOS through iTunes and don't enjoy your books.

Fundamentally, it's your choice.

You forgot choice 3 - re-jailbreak with Pwnage 4.2 which fixed the iBooks nonsense.
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post #150 of 164
2/16/11 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

apple will be sued over this one. and lose.

Disagree. Apple will not be sued over this as it is entirely within their right to play this stupid little game. You have the legal right to jaibreak and Apple has the legal right to try to prevent you from doing so.

I'm a jailbreaker and proud of it, but that doesn't change the fact that Apple does have the right to try to prevent me from doing so at any level they control.
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post #151 of 164
2/16/11 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

The key is that you are buying a license to view digitalized content. And buy not using Apples IOS there is no protection for the digitalized content. While this move seems unfair its really protection for those that have paid.

No - it is not protection at all for those that paid. It is protection for those who profit from the sale of the books. Once you pay and have the book, what do you care if someone is reading it on a jailbroken device or not? Publishers and Apple will charge the maximum anount that the market will bear, not really influenced by the amount lost by pirates (that I do not condone, BTW).
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post #152 of 164
2/16/11 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

I agree, somehow I like to read my books in the paper and not virtual mode.

However, even if you purchased your book legally, if it has a copyright, you can't do with it what you want. You can't make copies of it and sell them, you can't make a movie from it and you can't make a pdf version and place it on your website.....so there are certain limitations what you can do with your book.

I meant they couldn't suddenly prevent me from reading that which I have purchased, nor could they prevent me from on-selling it, donating it to a hospice, exchanging it at a 2nd hand bookstore and other such legitimate and legal uses.
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post #153 of 164
2/16/11 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post

What you really hear is Apple saying is lets support developers. Jailbreaking is the way apps are pirated. Not all people with jailbroken iPhones (?) steal software but per news reports there are enough of them out there that at times it has been approx 90% stolen 10% purchased (for certain apps). Lets pay people for their hard work. Typically apps are in the $0.99 to $4.99 range with the lower side being more the norm. Is it too much to ask to pay people for their hard work.

I get it that to some folks they feel limited and they want to hack the iPhone. I also see what has happened with the android OS and am glad I am in this walled garden, no virus protection needed, not much in the app store as far as stolen content or apps, malware or the like. Thanks, but no thanks, I'll keep my iPhone.

BTW: I am also a developer.

Do you realize there are developers in countries where the iPhone is not supported by any carriers? Meaning they have to jailbreak their phones just to unlock them to use them as a dev device. I was one of them. Eventually I broke down and spent the 1300 euros for OEM unlocked phones on the grey market.
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post #154 of 164
2/16/11 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I meant they couldn't suddenly prevent me from reading that which I have purchased, nor could they prevent me from on-selling it, donating it to a hospice, exchanging it at a 2nd hand bookstore and other such legitimate and legal uses.

On this we can agree.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #155 of 164
2/16/11 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aderutter View Post

I think so too. Now if only they'd also do this for all Apple apps e.g. mail and ipod.

Ha, ha. This is a good reason to not upgrade, just wait a while until this nonsense is sorted out.
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post #156 of 164
2/16/11 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinemagic View Post

You forgot choice 3 - re-jailbreak with Pwnage 4.2 which fixed the iBooks nonsense.

Or better yet, avoid the whole ebook thing for now. Music had restrictive DRM and that eventually went away.
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post #157 of 164
2/16/11 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsu View Post

The few thousand years of recorded human history where no copyright and patent protection exist, yet literature and scientific discovery were actively pursued, and competitive market existed seem to counter this argument.

And yet they are only now crawling out of the Stone Age thanks to the recent diminution of their regressive religious beliefs.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #158 of 164
2/16/11 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

I bought my iPhone from AT&T for $200
I pay my monthly AT&T bill of $113
I jailbreak my phone

Now, books I have purchased for ~$15 each are not viewable?

How is this not extortion? What I am doing (jailbreaking) is perfectly legal. What Apple has done, is denying me the ability to view a book I have legitimately paid for.

This is nothing short of extortion. Now, this will create a new effort by people to crack the DRM on iBooks; and when the DRM is broken on iBooks - this will create a new Book piracy industry that does not exist today.

As we used to say in grade school - "Nice move, Ex-lax"

Hey buddy, no problem just reinstall the iOS system and reauthorize the phone then you can read them all you like. Oh I guess you didn't read the terms of purchase when you brought the books huh?
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post #159 of 164
2/16/11 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by efithian@mac.com View Post

The law allows jailbreaking. It may be that what Apple has done is against the law. Time will tell.

It looks like it is better to download a pirated copy of a book to view in iBooks rather than purchase the same title in the iBookstore.

The Law might allow jailbreaking your phone. You can smash it with a hammer too! Nothing illegal there but Apple does NOT have to play your game. The iBook's DRM was perfectly legal too when you agreed to it and made the purchase.
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post #160 of 164
2/16/11 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfkw View Post

I have a jailbroken 3G iPhone. I paid my two years of service to AT&T and then moved out of the country. To continue to use my expensive iPhone I had to jailbreak it to unlock it and put another carriers SIM card in. Why should this be against Apple policy? Unless I want to toss my phone in a box and never use it this is the only way. Maybe Apple/AT&T should at least make an unlock code available once we have completed our contract. This just pisses me off every time it comes up.
BTW I have no pirated apps on my phone and there are quite a few other down here who have jailbroken/unlocked phones for the same reason and also do not pirate apps.

"we have completed our contract" yes you have completed your contract with AT&T but your still under contract with iBooks why can't you see that!

At least you can still use your phone. It's was too long ago you'd have to throw in a box with all the other Phone company's closed OSs.
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