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Apple lobbies for offshore tax holiday to bring cash to US - Page 4

post #121 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquajets1 View Post

So in other words, people need to give a c***, otherwise they are just screwing themselves over. But not just one person, everyone collectively.

On a completely unrelated note to this forum, gold, commodity or speculation now that 70% of gold mined is sold to investors?

Yep, if no one gives a crap, bad things will soon happen. All but guaranteed.

Gold has not behaved like a comodity historically nor should it be expected to now. There is limited demand for the actual use of gold, relative to supply and production. We can have a copper shortage, an oil shortage or a cotton shortage. There is plenty of gold for all non hording needs. There are much better investments to make if you are afraid of inflation, on the other hand, there is plenty of money to be made in speculation too.
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post #122 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:22pm
Double post
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post #123 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgberry View Post

I don't claim to understand or know the US tax system. But, wow. In Australia, company tax is 32%. This is a flat rate and everyone business pays it. I can't believe Apple or any company could only pay 25% tax - no wonder US national debt is so high.

In addition, personally I think that the "tax holiday" idea is just pathetic. Those companies are currently laundering money overseas - if you ask me. They should be penalised by what ever your federal gov tax agency is called.

Just my Aussie 2cents worth.

Keep in mind that because of the USA, Australia can spend FAR less on their defense than they would otherwise. You're welcome.
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post #124 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Our philosophy is simplewhen Apple brings a new subscriber to the app, Apple earns a 30 percent share; when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing, said Steve Jobs, Apples CEO.

Our philosophy is simpleYou make money, we take a 30 percent share; when you make nothing, you keep 100 percent and we get nothing, said Barak Obama, America's CEO.

Small difference. Apple has to convince you it's in your best interest to participate by helping you make money. Obama brings guns to make sure you do.
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post #125 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Keep in mind that because of the USA, Australia can spend FAR less on their defense than they would otherwise. You're welcome.

1. the US tax system is confusing as heck filled with loopholes and other c***
2. Alot of their money is made overseas (though some may be illegally hidden) By our laws however, they can't bring it back which seems confusing to me why the govt. wouldn't want it coming back
3. Yeah, defense... Because of the US everyone in the world can sleep safer (except those we are fighting) because we believe ourselves to be the world's police officers and meddle in everything. Not that meddling is always bad.
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post #126 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eehd View Post

Well, the truth of the matter is that we are all paying approximately the same percent that you are, when you include federal, state, local, property, sales tax, etc. The question is who is more likely to afford it? The person that is making minimum wage and struggling to make ends meet or the rich billionaire who can own a mansion, abandon it for 10 years to demolish it to build another house? I don't understand how anyone can defend any corporation when it comes to taxes because no corporation pays the actual amount of what they are supposed to because of all the loopholes built into the system and their ability to move their money off-shore to not pay taxes.

You can't understand it because you fundamentally misunderstand what a corporation is. It is a collection of people who will be paying taxes on every dollar they make already.
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post #127 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

It's not ironic. NOBODY wants to pay more money than absolutely necessary for anything.

Thats not really true. People pay more than they have to everytime they leave a tip. You can go to almost any church for free, yet many people are happy to leave donations. People pay a shitload for Girl Scout cookies, when they can get much cheaper ones at any grocery store. People pay $8 a gallon for bottled water when they could filter a gallon of tap water for $0.10 (and then they bitch about $4 a gallon gasoline). People can be extremely generous or free spending in one area and extremely stingy or selfish in another.

The problem with taxes is most people don't feel they are going to something good, so they don't feel good about paying them. People think their donation to habitat for humanity is truly helping someone, while their tax contribution to welfare is going to waste and fraud. We have a very anti-business government, so business leaders probably don't feel real warm and fuzzy writing tax checks these days.
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post #128 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:33pm
ps. how much is 2 cents aussie in U.S.? Is your two cents worth less than ours? Does it make our 'two cents' more important than your's? if so, how about people in england? does a pence count as a cent? if so, is their two pence more important than both of our two cents?
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post #129 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I know it feels good today that 'corporations' should pay their fair share and all that.

Guess who pays all the taxes, directly or indirectly, at the end of the day.

Oh I know this one. Can I guess?
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post #130 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Google pays 2.4% tax on money (88% of foreign earnings) they transfer from Ireland to Bermuda via The Netherlands.

Legal yes, evil ???

Apple also uses low tax countrys to pay less tax, what is your point?
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post #131 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

The US seriously needs to consider fundamentally overhauling its tax system -- especially, corporate tax system -- and not just its corporate tax rate, if it has any hope of dealing with its deficits.

Oh it did! Remember when Obama created the nonpartisan deficit commission to give him a real, honest assessment of what needed to be done to fix our problems?

Remember what Obama said when they gave him what he asked for? He said, no thanks, we can't do any of THAT stuff....
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post #132 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Oh I know this one. Can I guess?

No, No pick me!
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post #133 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.C. View Post

Anyone here ever been to business school ?

The purpose of management is to exploit each employee to the greatest potential and earn a profit for the corporation.

The CFO has the obligation of finding any and every way to avoid paying anyone anything they don't have to.

From hourly wages, to benefits and corporate taxes, it's all the same. Pay as little as the law allows.

I GUARANTEE you didn't go to business school.

By the way, do you realize you just described every individual's job in society as well, as far as consuming goods and services go? Get everything he can for the best price possible without doing anything illegal. I'm guessing that you, KC, Mr. Business School, don't shop around for the grocery with the highest prices for your staples, do you? DO YOU?
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post #134 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Oh it did! Remember when Obama created the nonpartisan deficit commission to give him a real, honest assessment of what needed to be done to fix our problems?

Remember what Obama said when they gave him what he asked for? He said, no thanks, we can't do any of THAT stuff....

But we can do a completely unrelated thing with health care that will add an essentially 30% tax on all healthcare minimum and do lots of other things to mess with the tax code! wait, 30%, where have I heard that before?
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post #135 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I GUARANTEE you didn't go to business school.

By the way, do you realize you just described every individual's job in society as well, as far as consuming goods and services go? Get everything he can for the best price possible without doing anything illegal. I'm guessing that you, KC, Mr. Business School, don't shop around for the grocery with the highest prices for your staples, do you? DO YOU?

The purpose of society is to prevent people from dying (intrinsically). The purpose of the economy (intrinsically) is to make sure people get what they need so they dont die. Business is just fluff. But yes, that economic idea does seem to take an idealistic view of everyone else in society who is not a cfo.
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post #136 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Apple also uses low tax countrys to pay less tax, what is your point?

Yeah... Low tax country as in Nevada USA?
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post #137 of 190
2/16/11 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post

If you think simply throwing money at a complex problem will make it go away, and that there are no costs in trying to do so, yes it makes you unintelligent.

I'll even back that off a bit. If you do all that, in the face of overwhelming historical and worldwide evidence that you are wrong, then yes, you're dumb.
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post #138 of 190
2/16/11 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihxo View Post

Yeah... Low tax country as in Nevada USA?

No, like Ireland
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post #139 of 190
2/16/11 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihxo View Post

Yeah... Low tax country as in Nevada USA?

No, more like Singapore. (Which, btw, is perhaps where a lot of the US tech corporate money is parked.)
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post #140 of 190
2/16/11 at 8:51pm
Come on! Just bring it home and pay the taxes. They's got over $50 billion. Is that just at home? We could use some of the money the taxes would bring.
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post #141 of 190
2/16/11 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Google pays 2.4% tax on money (88% of foreign earnings) they transfer from Ireland to Bermuda via The Netherlands.

Legal yes, evil ???

how is that evil? the govt. should get nothing if the money is made on foreign land. why should they get taxed twice? it's a concept i never understand; what's the logic for paying taxes on money made in countries? i am glad the corporations keep the money away from these greedy liberals and so-called conservatives.
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post #142 of 190
2/16/11 at 10:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

You can try to avoid going down the rabbit hole, but sometimes the rabbit comes up and bites you on the keister.

Brilliant ..... I like you better when you display this kind of humor .....

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post #143 of 190
2/16/11 at 11:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Keep in mind that because of the USA, Australia can spend FAR less on their defense than they would otherwise. You're welcome.

How many US soldiers are "on patrol" in Australia?

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post #144 of 190
2/16/11 at 11:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Where do you think most taxpaying individuals work? Who do you think manufactures your food, clothes, shelter, transportation, computers, entertainment, .......?

Overseas manufacturers!

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post #145 of 190
2/16/11 at 11:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquajets1 View Post

There is a big issue with the theory that throwing money at a problem will make it go away.

Spot on ..... and we all can see how that seems to be working for the "corporation" known as Microsoft.

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post #146 of 190
2/17/11 at 12:43am
So, Apple and the other companies want to move the profits made from other countries to the US economy. Now, the US economy definitely can use it (given that compromise in the divided US political system means creating a bigger budget hole by combining more spending (democrats) and less taxes (republicans) instead of the other way around).

But it seems stealing from other economies to me. The profits made in one economy from the money spent by people there are also taxed there to provide for the common good. Generally, the rule (in international tax agreements) is: if you pay taxes in one place, you don't have to pay in another. So, by moving the profits for a 5% tax to the US, it seems the corporations are trying to evade taxes in other countries. Seems like economic warfare to me and if anything produced the big crisis in the 1930's, it was patriotic economic behaviour of all parties.

Seems more right that those profits are invested in the economies that generated those profits than use those profits to try to fill the black hole that is the US budget.

Note: I don't know if the worldwide tax system of the US will enable corporations to ask a refund of tax in the country where the profits were made. I assume that it is, but f that is not so, the above does not hold water.
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post #147 of 190
2/17/11 at 4:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

How many US soldiers are "on patrol" in Australia?

Less than the number of Aussie soldiers on patrol in Afghanistan and Iraq and certainly less than the number of Aussie soldiers who died in Vietnam.

You do have some spy satellite bases here. Pine Gap is one of them.

You keep protecting us and we'll keep digging up rocks and selling them to China so they can make all the stuff you want to buy.

All the way with LBJ.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #148 of 190
2/17/11 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

How many US soldiers are "on patrol" in Australia?

Probably very few. Do you think Australia does not benefit from the general peacekeeping that the USA does around the world? Who do you think makes all the military hardware that most western countries (in geography and philosophy) use? As another poster pointed out, the USA provides soldiers who are dying and being injured around the world in peacekeeping efforts that the rest of the world is not willing to participate in.

Again, you're welcome.
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post #149 of 190
2/17/11 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gctwnl View Post

Note: I don't know if the worldwide tax system of the US will enable corporations to ask a refund of tax in the country where the profits were made. I assume that it is, but f that is not so, the above does not hold water.

You (generally, tax codes can be complex) pay taxes on your profits when and where they are earned. If apple sells an iPod in Singapore and makes $100 US in profit, they pay Singapore $16 in income tax and they have $84 left over. If and when they bring the $84 back to the US, the IRS wants them to pay $35 in tax on the $100, but they can usually deduct the $16 already paid, so the tax bill to the US would be $19. Singapore already collected their money and they don't care what the US does.

Also note, that some of the expense of the iPod sold in Singapore includes intelectual property rights from the US. That expense is revenue to the US unit of Apple (Does the Nevada unit own the IP?) and any profits from that royalty stream will be taxed locally at the US and if applicable state rates.

The US government is not in anyway getting shortchanged on this deal because the IRS monitors transfer pricing between US and foreign entities, unlike what can be done in Ireland where companies can virtually set any price they want.
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post #150 of 190
2/17/11 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquajets1 View Post

"Solipsism: In philosophy, a view that maintains that the self is the only thing that can be known to exist. It is an extreme form of skepticism. The solipsist sees himself or herself as the only individual in existence...."

Epic. It's like the matrix. I know I exist, but is that person real or a program?

Hey leave soli alone, he's not here to argue with himself.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #151 of 190
2/17/11 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Probably very few. Do you think Australia does not benefit from the general peacekeeping that the USA does around the world? Who do you think makes all the military hardware that most western countries (in geography and philosophy) use? As another poster pointed out, the USA provides soldiers who are dying and being injured around the world in peacekeeping efforts that the rest of the world is not willing to participate in.

Again, you're welcome.

Did Australia ask us to send troops to those places? Do peace keeping missions make the world safer for Australia or more dangerous?

The Aussies should thank the US Marines who stopped the Japanese advance at Guadacanal, and they did, but I am not sure they owe us a darn thing for any of our current deployments against threats that were not threatening Australia. On the flip side, we should be thanking them for being one of the few allies to send troops and support for our wars in Afganistan and Iraq.
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post #152 of 190
2/17/11 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I GUARANTEE you didn't go to business school.

By the way, do you realize you just described every individual's job in society as well, as far as consuming goods and services go? Get everything he can for the best price possible without doing anything illegal. I'm guessing that you, KC, Mr. Business School, don't shop around for the grocery with the highest prices for your staples, do you? DO YOU?

Of course we all do that and not with just the staples. My problem is does the CFO look in the mirror and say "WHOA, I make too much money and so does every other C_O of this company, I could save us many more millions by cutting our salaries than cutting the wages of the guy making 35K"
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #153 of 190
2/17/11 at 6:40am
Most folks in the IRS pay taxes too. ;-) I agree it's an uphill battle, but just imagine those thousands of workers doing something productive for our economy -- building products that people want to buy, helping businesses find financing, or general business accounting. The possibility of not having to file an income tax return, and the (seemingly endless) hours spent doing that being put towards something productive... that is something we should reach for.
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post #154 of 190
2/17/11 at 6:41am
It would be just about as stupid as what's happening in Wisconsin with our new governor and giving back millions in investments to the state of money already technically spent, it's not saving us anything to give it back (like trains, you're welcome Cali). If they didn't give this option, it would be throwing away billions of dollars worth of investment into the US.
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post #155 of 190
2/17/11 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

They aren't asking for a hand-out, they are just stating facts: the tax code currently provides disincentives for them to bring that money back to the US. If the disincentives are removed (temporarily), they will behave rationally and take advantage of it by bring it "ashore" and paying US taxes that they would otherwise avoid.

No, the point of the tax holiday is that they bring the money "ashore" and don't pay taxes on it.
But as the report stated, the last time this happened it did nothing for unemployment. I agree with those who think this is corporate greed. One of the reasons the federal budget is in such bad shape is because corporations are not paying their fair share in taxes. That's why individual tax burdens are so high (although taxes on the rich, despite the hype, are far lower than they were under Nixon or Reagan).

In the third quarter of 2010, American corporations earned profits at an annual rate of $1.659 trillion - the highest total since the government began keeping track more than 60 years ago. But are they hiring? No.

Going back a decade, according to the GAO, 6 in 10 American corporations reported no tax liability for the five years from 1996 to 2000 and 7.1 in 10 foreign corporations doing business in the U.S. reported no tax liability.

In the late 1990s, almost 2/3 of American corporations paid little or no taxes. 90% paid less than 5%. Corporate taxes were 7.5% of total tax receipts. During WWII, they were 40%.

So all this screaming by corporations that taxes are too high is total B.S. They put the burden of taxes on individuals and they're not keeping people employed. They have no shame.

I'd be in favor of the tax holiday if corporations could prove that at least 75% of the savings was going into job creation. Otherwise, it's just a scam to benefit executives with bonuses and the largest stock holders. I own Apple stock and even if Apple paid this money as a dividend (which they're unlikely to do anyway), I'd be opposed to the tax holiday.
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post #156 of 190
2/17/11 at 7:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meriana View Post

Lowering it would be actually a wise idea, cuz it would allow companies who make lots of their money outside the USA to have lover investment coasts in the USA.

On paper, for every project they have to bring in money from elsewhere, the coast for the project goes up quite a bit.

Apple gets plenty of money from HERE. How do you think they got the opportunity to make money elsewhere? Keep their tax shelter money overseas, a TRUE PATRIOTIC AMERICAN company will fill the void.
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post #157 of 190
2/17/11 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

The US has the second highest corporate tax of the developed nations...

We're Number Two! We're Number Two! Oh please, pretty please, government - make us Number One - so these robber barons get what they deserve.
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post #158 of 190
2/17/11 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

No, the point of the tax holiday is that they bring the money "ashore" and don't pay taxes on it.
But as the report stated, the last time this happened it did nothing for unemployment. I agree with those who think this is corporate greed. One of the reasons the federal budget is in such bad shape is because corporations are not paying their fair share in taxes. That's why individual tax burdens are so high (although taxes on the rich, despite the hype, are far lower than they were under Nixon or Reagan).

In the third quarter of 2010, American corporations earned profits at an annual rate of $1.659 trillion - the highest total since the government began keeping track more than 60 years ago. But are they hiring? No.

Going back a decade, according to the GAO, 6 in 10 American corporations reported no tax liability for the five years from 1996 to 2000 and 7.1 in 10 foreign corporations doing business in the U.S. reported no tax liability.

In the late 1990s, almost 2/3 of American corporations paid little or no taxes. 90% paid less than 5%. Corporate taxes were 7.5% of total tax receipts. During WWII, they were 40%.

So all this screaming by corporations that taxes are too high is total B.S. They put the burden of taxes on individuals and they're not keeping people employed. They have no shame.

I'd be in favor of the tax holiday if corporations could prove that at least 75% of the savings was going into job creation. Otherwise, it's just a scam to benefit executives with bonuses and the largest stock holders. I own Apple stock and even if Apple paid this money as a dividend (which they're unlikely to do anyway), I'd be opposed to the tax holiday.

Gee, why are companies not hiring in the US, could it be 2nd highest taxes in the world that you think are too low? Inflated wages and labor costs? Highest risk of employee lawsuits? Burdensome regulations from the DOL and states? A president who blames businesses for everything government has done wrong? A president and his minions who promise to raise taxes in the future, increase benefits costs and make it even more expensive to have an American employee? The better question is why have corporations not laid more of us off and replaced us with off shore employees in countries that LIKE employers?

Why should any company keep more than a minimal staff in the US if they can do things cheaper and better with less risk in other countries? After you make every business pay what you have decided is their fair share, or leave, who is going to provide jobs and pay salaries? Where is the money for everyones retirement going to come from? Where will we get the money to buy all our imported goods? Who will the government tax to pay off the debt? Who will they tax to pay for wefare, medicare etc. for all the people who lost their jobs when the corporations left?

You want to stick your hands in someone elses pockets and take a chunk of their money, and you call THEM greedy when they try to stop it? Get a mirrror and get a clue.
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post #159 of 190
2/17/11 at 9:17am
I have no idea how this all works, but it feels like the way we tax import/export is wrong. The taxes should take place earlier in the import/export process so that they must be paid. Then there would be no problem bringing the money back.

Again I have no idea, but could there be double taxation here that companies are trying to avoid? Or maybe this is money earned by selling to other countries and should not be taxed more then selling a product locally? It would be nice to have more background on the taxation process in these articles. Most of us are not experts in this area.
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post #160 of 190
2/17/11 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post

Gee, why are companies not hiring in the US, could it be 2nd highest taxes in the world that you think are too low? A president who blames businesses for everything government has done wrong?

I don't think he blames businesses. He rightly thinks that businesses need to fix this. There is only so much the government can do to stimulate a private economy. Putting decent import/export laws in place is one of those things they can do though. I'd like to know if our current laws are reasonable or if they are full of special interest exceptions and double taxation.
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