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Motorola's iPad competing Xoom won't immediately support Adobe Flash

post #1 of 94
Thread Starter 
While the ability to run Adobe Flash has been touted as a feature that makes the Android-powered Motorola Xoom superior to Apple's iPad, Flash support is not expected to arrive for the Xoom until Spring 2011.

The news came as a result of a new advertisement for the Xoom on the website U.S. carrier Verizon Wireless. The ad touts the forthcoming tablet's 1 GHz dual-core processor, which is "fully Flash-enabled for video-rich web."

But in mentioning Flash, the site also contains fine print noting that Adobe Flash is expected in Spring 2011. Its apparent lack of inclusion on the Xoom when it launches this week would suggest that Flash is not yet ready for Google's Android 3.0 Honeycomb mobile operating system, which is tailored for tablet-style devices like the Xoom.

Apple has famously prevented the appearance of Adobe Flash on its iOS-powered devices, including the iPad and iPhone. The company has cited poor performance of the browser plug-in

Last year, Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs authored a letter in which he panned Flash as unfit for the mobile era of low-powered devices with long battery life. He said he believes Flash was created for the PC era, which was about mice and keyboards, but is not meant for today's touchscreen devices.

In addition to performance issues, Jobs said the delays in bringing Flash to mobile devices were also evidence that it is not suited for the iPad or iPhone.

"Adobe publicly said that Flash would ship on a smartphone in early 2009, then the second half of 2009, then the first half of 2010, and now they say the second half of 2010," Jobs wrote. "We think it will eventually ship, but we're glad we didn't hold our breath. Who knows how it will perform?"



Motorola has not been alone in pushing the ability of its tablet to run Flash. Last month, Toshiba launched a product site for its new tablet using Flash, which blocked iPhone or iPad visitors from accessing the page. Those on an iOS device were greeted with the message: "Such a shame. Add this to the list of interesting places on the internet you can't see on your device. Of course, if you had a Toshiba Tablet you would enjoy the entire internet. Yep, Flash sites too."

The 3G version of the Motorola Xoom with 32GB of flash memory is set to launch on Thursday for $800. The company has said that a Wi-Fi-only 32GB model will launch later this year for $600.

The hardware, which also features a 10.1-inch display and front-facing 2-megapixel camera and rear-facing 5-megapixel camera, was unveiled in early January at the Consumer Electronics Show. Motorola hyped the device with a pricey Super Bowl advertisement earlier this month, with a minute-long spot that suggested Apple device users are drones in an Orwellian world similar to the one created in the novel "1984."
post #2 of 94
Then this is the PERFECT opportunity for someone to see how fast and smooth everything is, plus battery life *before* Flash is installed (and the 10.2 version) and then run this again afterwards.
post #3 of 94
Oh no, the Xoom is doomed! Doomed I say!

How dare Motorolla release a product that doesn't meet the established web standards. Who do they think they are telling us the consumer what does and doesn't work well.

[/sarcasm]
Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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post #4 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elian Gonzalez View Post

Then this is the PERFECT opportunity for someone to see how fast and smooth everything is, plus battery life *before* Flash is installed (and the 10.2 version) and then run this again afterwards.

Thats a great idea. They cant use that as an excuse for not meeting Apples battery times.
post #5 of 94
It's now been at least 4 years since Steve Jobs originally pronounced Flash as unfit for mobile devices. 4 years! And they still haven't got it right. And yet folks still condemn Jobs for these remarks. I'd say he was right on the money.
post #6 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

It's now been at least 4 years since Steve Jobs originally pronounced Flash as unfit for mobile devices. 4 years! And they still haven't got it right. And yet folks still condemn Jobs for these remarks. I'd say he was right on the money.

We can only imagine how much worse Flash would be if Jobs hadnt pointed out Adobe Flashs shortening and threatened its future with open web standards on the iPhone. Id say it would be a lot worse than it is now. i bet full flash on a smartphone wouldnt even be vaporware, but an idea that Adobe would like to achieve one day on some shipping smartphone when ARM Cortex-A15 starts shipping.
post #7 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

Oh no, the Xoom is doomed! Doomed I say!

How dare Motorolla release a product that doesn't meet the established web standards. Who do they think they are telling us the consumer what does and doesn't work well.

[/sarcasm]

Not for nothing... If the Xoom is going to compete with the iPad using a higher price point Moto needs compelling features missing from Apple's product. Flash is the biggest differentiator, but now apparently won't ship with it. It doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.
post #8 of 94
As an Android user I must say that having Flash should be a strike against any device.At a counter, if I were given the choice between HAVING Flash and NOT HAVING Flash, of course, I'd say I want one. I'm guessing that the average consumer would want that, too. I *thought* it would be a net positive on my device but more than a year later I'd say it's a painful experience.

Yes, Flash is great with mouse and keyboard but my fat fingers are useless for selecting anything in a Flash element on my device. I'm also so annoyed about having to let yet another thing load in the web page. There are some Flash objects that require detailed selection, dragging, scrolling. Useless on a 4" touchscreen. USELESS.
post #9 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elian Gonzalez View Post

Then this is the PERFECT opportunity for someone to see how fast and smooth everything is, plus battery life *before* Flash is installed (and the 10.2 version) and then run this again afterwards.

Even with mobile devices that have Flash installed, it is fully capable of being removed or disabled at will. You can run tests right now on these said devices. Personally, I haven't seen any mass tech media articles on how flash is destroying battery life on mobile devices. That's not to say that some people aren't having issues, but it hasn't reached a point where large amounts of people are in uproar over Flash and its problems. For me, Flash on mobile devices isn't the destruction of all things that it was made out to be. I don't need it on my device however and although I come across sites every now and then that need it, it's not even close to common.
post #10 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by briavael View Post

Not for nothing... If the Xoom is going to compete with the iPad using a higher price point Moto needs compelling features missing from Apple's product. Flash is the biggest differentiator, but now apparently won't ship with it. It doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.

compelling features != Flash
post #11 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elian Gonzalez View Post

Then this is the PERFECT opportunity for someone to see how fast and smooth everything is, plus battery life *before* Flash is installed (and the 10.2 version) and then run this again afterwards.

Isn't that a calculated ploy to deceive the customers during their test drive? Show how fast it is without Flash (*to drive sales*) and let the customers suffer after they bought it with Flash slowing it down eventually.

And for $800? I will not risk my precious dollars for it even if Motorola would have a return policy of 90 days.
post #12 of 94
HTML 5... 'nuff said.
post #13 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

That’s a great idea. They can’t use that as an excuse for not meeting Apple’s battery times.


that is an interesting point, how do they claim battery performance numbers without having a key feature that was being jamming down on people. It will be interesting to see how it does when it is playing flash advertisements and videos all the time.
post #14 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

Thats a great idea. They cant use that as an excuse for not meeting Apples battery times.

Given the oh crap REVIEW IT NOW! mentality of most tech news sites, I suspect we'll get plenty of the 'before', but precious little of the 'after'.
post #15 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

We can only imagine how much worse Flash would be if Jobs hadnt pointed out Adobe Flashs shortening and threatened its future with open web standards on the iPhone. Id say it would be a lot worse than it is now. i bet full flash on a smartphone wouldnt even be vaporware, but an idea that Adobe would like to achieve one day on some shipping smartphone when ARM Cortex-A15 starts shipping.

I think the point of the 10.2 update is to offload the bulk of the processing to the system's GPU. Which is probably why Motorola is waiting until 10.2 is ready. 10.1 might burn a whole through the back of the device.
post #16 of 94
I now know where to go for all the latest news about the Xoom

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #17 of 94
I'm so fed up with the Adobe ploy..... all talk but no action, pushing the viability down the road while they work out a solution that "might" work.... well now Flash is in the pan and its not going to cook very well, thus the kicking down the field a workable solution to the future.

Jobs had it right in the beginning, its Microsoft type vapor ware and by the time Adobe/Google figure it out an even newer application of technology will make it not necessary (like cloud computing/streaming).

This has been an canard from day one and now everyone knows it!!!!
post #18 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by NextTechnocrati View Post

And for $800? I will not risk my precious dollars for it even if Motorola would have a return policy of 90 days.

that's $800 before the required VZW activation fee and the required one month of 3G service... which combined comes to something like $35 for the fee and $30 for that one month.

IOW, you're spending almost $900 off the bat, not counting any applicable sales taxes*


* (caveat - I live in Oregon where we don't have a sales tax, so not sure if it applies in this particular case for everyone else or not).
post #19 of 94
Dead On Arrival. This is pure comedy! An $800 price tag and now it doesn't do everything it is supposed to do. Adobe has been preparing Flash for mobile for YEARS and we still haven't seen it shipping in quantities yet. It's just silly now. Looking forward to iPad 2!
post #20 of 94
Quote:
As an Android user I must say that having Flash should be a strike against any device.At a counter, if I were given the choice between HAVING Flash and NOT HAVING Flash, of course, I'd say I want one. I'm guessing that the average consumer would want that, too. I *thought* it would be a net positive on my device but more than a year later I'd say it's a painful experience.

Yes, Flash is great with mouse and keyboard but my fat fingers are useless for selecting anything in a Flash element on my device. I'm also so annoyed about having to let yet another thing load in the web page. There are some Flash objects that require detailed selection, dragging, scrolling. Useless on a 4" touchscreen. USELESS.

Finally an Android user that is honestly reporting what flash is like on a 4" screen phone. I'd bet my savings that SJ and his team tested that 5 years ago and had no choice but to scrap Flash to preserve use experience. No compromises to deliver performance AND friendliness. Anyone talking about Apple's evil plots to lock Adobe out for various monopoly/$$ goals is delusional. If Flash was in fact better suited for portable devices than html5 they'd have adopted it in a flash (pun intended) I'd think.
post #21 of 94
Jobs was right again about Adobe Flash on low powered devices, just as he was right about the form factor of the tablets. Shouldn't we just accord him the respect he is due?
post #22 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Walk View Post

that's $800 before the required VZW activation fee and the required one month of 3G service... which combined comes to something like $35 for the fee and $30 for that one month.

IOW, you're spending almost $900 off the bat, not counting any applicable sales taxes*


* (caveat - I live in Oregon where we don't have a sales tax, so not sure if it applies in this particular case for everyone else or not).

It's money well spent if I bought a NEW Macbook Pro at entry level price point of $1200. Can't wait to pre-order or pick it up at Apple retail store.
post #23 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

It's now been at least 4 years since Steve Jobs originally pronounced Flash as unfit for mobile devices. 4 years! And they still haven't got it right. And yet folks still condemn Jobs for these remarks. I'd say he was right on the money.

You're right. And what a complete joke Motorola is. But really, who on Earth did NOT see something like this coming? (I mean, besides the haters and losers who didn't want to see it. And still won't!)
post #24 of 94
What's the point without Flash? At $800 it seems like a overpriced iPad. Who will buy these machines? I suppose only the Apple haters.

If Flash isn't enabled on other smart phones how are people experiencing Flash sites now? Since I don't own a smart phone I don't know.
post #25 of 94
If the 32gb version wi-fi only checks in at $600 to be comparable to the first-gen iPad, that means within the next few weeks the Motorola will be behind in terms of specs because the second version of the iPad will be more impressive. Probably the memory will be doubled which means you might be able to get a 32GB iPad 2 for $100 cheaper or get a wi-fi 3G iPad 2 for about the price of the Motorola Wi-Fi only model.

And as for the whole Flash issue, with Apple selling iOS devices by the millions, how long before any site worth visiting will offer a version that works with Apple's products.
post #26 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sipadan View Post

Finally an Android user that is honestly reporting what flash is like on a 4" screen phone. I'd bet my savings that SJ and his team tested that 5 years ago and had no choice but to scrap Flash to preserve use experience. No compromises to deliver performance AND friendliness. Anyone talking about Apple's evil plots to lock Adobe out for various monopoly/$$ goals is delusional. If Flash was in fact better suited for portable devices than html5 they'd have adopted it in a flash (pun intended) I'd think.

Agree with your positive comments about the comments from "the Android" user.

It's been reported and I heard SJ say at an All Things Digital interveiw that Apple spent a a fair amount of effort and time working with Adobe's Flash team before the iPhone was announced to get flash working to Apple's standards on iOS and they couldn't get there. Only then was the decision made to jettison Flash in order to maintain usability and keep the iOS project moving forward.
post #27 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

Oh no, the Xoom is doomed! Doomed I say!

How dare Motorolla release a product that doesn't meet the established web standards. Who do they think they are telling us the consumer what does and doesn't work well.

[/sarcasm]

What 'established web standards' would that be?
That term definitely doesn't apply to Flash.
post #28 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elian Gonzalez View Post

Then this is the PERFECT opportunity for someone to see how fast and smooth everything is, plus battery life *before* Flash is installed (and the 10.2 version) and then run this again afterwards.

Unfortunately, someone would have to buy one first.
post #29 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkalu View Post

Jobs was right again about Adobe Flash on low powered devices, just as he was right about the form factor of the tablets. Shouldn't we just accord him the respect he is due?

I'm sure that one thing Jobs and The President commiserated about at dinner last week was the fact that if either of them cured cancer, their haters would just accuse them of putting researchers out of work.
post #30 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

If Flash isn't enabled on other smart phones how are people experiencing Flash sites now? Since I don't own a smart phone I don't know.

The same way desktop users w/o Flash (or with an old version of Flash) experience them: they see the content the developer decides they should see in lieu of the SWF.
post #31 of 94
The funniest thing is reading all of the fandroid crap. It was "The iPad can't even run Flash.". Now, it's "It doesn't matter, I don't even have Flash installed.".
post #32 of 94
It's good marketing strategy, even though it serves to illustrate just how unimportant Flash really is. First impressions are most important, and battery life trumps Flash. Only after the iPad 2 has arrived will Motorola release Flash, to produce a second wave of buyers.
post #33 of 94
My guess is Motorola did this intentionally. Without Flash enabled they may get battery life close, or equal to, the iPad. This will allow Motorola to advertise said battery life once Flash is installed on the Xoom, regardless if it remains true or not. There will just be a small disclaimer in fine print saying that battery life is for the Xoom tablet without Flash. Of course, the print will be so small, no one will be able to see it.
post #34 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotWake View Post

The funniest thing is reading all of the fandroid crap. It was "The iPad can't even run Flash.". Now, it's "It doesn't matter, I don't even have Flash installed.".

Yeah, there something deliciously ironic about this. Nobody does more to validite Jobs' decisions than his detractors and competitors. First they tell us how wrong he is. Then, a year later, they copy him. Too bad for them that apple has moved on to something new by then. Hard to hit a movie target.
post #35 of 94
To me FLASH is not all that important. I would rather have longer battery life. Also Flash on the Ipad would only lead to more annoying adds. I'd rather see HTML5 make its way into new technology.
post #36 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawson100 View Post

As an Android user I must say that having Flash should be a strike against any device.At a counter, if I were given the choice between HAVING Flash and NOT HAVING Flash, of course, I'd say I want one. I'm guessing that the average consumer would want that, too. I *thought* it would be a net positive on my device but more than a year later I'd say it's a painful experience.

Yes, Flash is great with mouse and keyboard but my fat fingers are useless for selecting anything in a Flash element on my device. I'm also so annoyed about having to let yet another thing load in the web page. There are some Flash objects that require detailed selection, dragging, scrolling. Useless on a 4" touchscreen. USELESS.


I have to agree this is similar to my experience with android and flash based website. Good forbid if you not on a 3G connect at the time which you hit one of these sites and have to select flash pull downs or something. It is not an easy task, so I do not access those sites if I can void it. I honestly did not think this was flash issue at the time, I mostly those those idiot develop thought is would be cute to do all these fancy things verse just making the site usable.
post #37 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

To me FLASH is not all that important. I would rather have longer battery life. Also Flash on the Ipad would only lead to more annoying adds. I'd rather see HTML5 make its way into new technology.

Flash was the ONLY reason the CPU would heat up on my laptops and spin up the fan to annoying noise levels when just sitting idle on a web page. The web page doesn't even have to have Flash content per se; the Flash banner ads would be hogging the CPU. Imagine that on a tablet. Well, I guess we don't have to imagine because Xoom is gonna show us this wonderful new world of suck.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #38 of 94
FYI: If you want to make your wife or GF cry...buy her a tablet that is something other than an Apple iPad!

Best
post #39 of 94
Out of interest, how many times would you say not having Flash on the iPad has really inconvenienced you (and I mean, prevented you achieving what you wanted to achieve).

For me it is once. I couldn't compelte a purchase on art.com and I had to wait until I got to a PC, which given I was on the road in Hong Kong, was actually a problem for me.

The only other website I've even noticed the lack of Flash is the San Jose Sharks website, and I've just started going elsewhere for my Sharks news.
post #40 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elian Gonzalez View Post

Then this is the PERFECT opportunity for someone to see how fast and smooth everything is, plus battery life *before* Flash is installed (and the 10.2 version) and then run this again afterwards.

If you prefer the features of the Xoom over the iPad, please do buy it, and share your share your results.

I like to disable Flash though in my computer, and I am enjoying mostly "ad-free sites"*** among those that I frequent, like the New York Times. I simply get the "f" space. And, if I am curious enough, I can always click the "f" space. One definite advantage, most sites that I visit now load faster and I encounter less overall slowing when I have a gazillion browsers and applications.

You do not have to trust my observations though

CGC

*** Quite a few sites have wisened up though and now use non-Flash presentations.
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