Motorola's iPad competing Xoom won't immediately support Adobe Flash - Page 2

Does this mean that the Xoom will not be able to visit the Xoom web site.

That is awesome.

BREAKING NEWS: A device not developed by Apple, marketed by Apple, or even MENTIONED by Apple once again gets onto the news feed for APPLE INSIDER.

It's sad that you (AI) have to spend so much time writing articles to paint the competition in a negative light. It's also rather unique to your site and others like it. Sites supposedly devoted to "Apple Insider News and Analysis" spend so much time mocking Android, or WinMO. When I can go to Android/Winmo "News and Analysis" sites and read about... I dunno, news about what the site claims to care about? Before someone rebuts with the "Deathgrip" stories, remember that both manufacturers (Motorola) and Apple themselves brought other OS's into that slugfest. Every other major OS tech site can go weeks without writing an article explicitly about their competition. AI can't seem to do the same.

Now, if Cupertino released a statement about this tablet, or if it was related to Apple in Any meaningful way, you might have a point of mentioning it. But there's not. There is NO POINT of posting this story other than to try and paint your device of choice in a positive light by throwing black tar at the competition.

I'll do your analysis for you: If someone is reading this site there is a high probability they're going to buy the iPad2 instead of this anyway. Those that won't (like myself) won't be convinced to do so by you trying so hard to put the competition in a negative light whenever possible.

You like Apple, we get it. We can see the name of your website and everything. But going out of your way to blast the competition whenever possible isn't "Apple news and Analysis." It's petty.

The trust issue is not "established web standards," whatever that means, but the published Xoom specification, "WebKit w/ Flash," and the advertising claim (on Verizon) that Xoom is "fully Flash-enabled."

Exactly - it wasn't just that he said it sucked battery, was buggy, and that most Flash web sites weren't touch-ified (depended on both hover & click, click & drag, etc.), but he said it wasn't ready. And here we are and it still isn't - even for the launch of a fancy Flash-capable tablet. Lol.

I haven't even installed Flash on my Air (nice of them to leave it off, it's just a friggin' memory/CPU/battery pig with that crap running), and while there are some sites that have problems because they're Flash dependent, I firmly lump that in the 'Why don't these companies do a HTML version that doesn't kill mobile/laptop devices?' since there's rarely any benefit on the sites beyond crappy load times.

But I clearly say that as an Appleholic, not because it's possible that Jobs was right.

The notion that Flash is universal is a myth that is simply regurgitated by those who do not like Apple/Steve Jobs.

Joomla, a CMS, used by millions all over the world, ships without any flash module in their layout. I use it, and I do not use flash in my sites. I believe many Joomla users do not use flash also in their created Joomla sites. The reason is simple, while Flash reader is free, you have to buy the expensive Flash application to create flash modules, assuming you know how to use the application. Or, you can afford to hire a flash developer.

Many of the "authoritative sites" that I visit -- can stand simply from their reputation do not use too many Flash to attract visitor. Just look at sites that are non-commercial.

Sometimes, text (not even images) is enough and they still attract hundreds of millions of visitor and make decent profit. Craigslist sites (found all over the world is a very good example), they are so profitable E-bay tried to gobble them up, when their own "Craigslist" clone site was not able to compete as well, in spite of Ebay cloned "flashy" site.

Wikipedia, the most widely read online encyclopedia does not use flash, and in fact do not even use too many images. Their site is not "flashy" (i.e. no whistles and bells) and mainly text.

As to mobile devices, any site creator is stupid if they create websites that is based solely on Flash with no alternatives for the hundreds of millions of iOS devices owners to view their site. A very good example is Google. It has created an alternative to Flash viewing of its YouTube. Many sites that know the buying power of those hundreds of millions of iOS owners have also converted their sites to provide alternatives to flash. Even the porn industry have embraced flash free sites -- early on.

As I noted in my other post, in my computer (not iOS) I have partially disabled flash, and the flash modules appear as "f" space. And it turned out, they are mostly those annoying "flashy" ads that slow down loading of a page. I have better overall experience (less slowdown) when I have dozens of browser windows open, and multiple applications. Battery drain is also not as fast.

As noted by others, it has been so many years since a Flash suitable for mobile devices was announced. Until now, flash is still a work in progress that even the flash advocates would not include in their own mobile devices.

There is also the rule of "lowest common denominator". Had Apple/Steve Jobs simply included flash, the history of updates and security leaks fixes of the Flash has not always been the best of the OS systems. Without up-to-date upgrade that can keep up with the annual update of Apple products, especially the iOS devices, the Apple products would be bogged down by the "obsolete" features of the Flash. Even if only out of spite, Steve Jobs has a reason and can do without flash, rather than the way around.

Adobe used to collaborate more with Apple, until it decided to embrace the Windows system. Since then, Adobe has neglected the upgrade of their products for Mac users, like myself. And when the upgrade is done, not only is it not on par with the Windows counterpart, the cost of the upgrade is very steep, just like many Adobe products. I know this from personal experience using another Adobe product (I had no interest in buying the Flash creator).

Finally, Flash is known to be buggy and has been used to piggy back malwares, and other malicious scripts.

CGC

You don't like the article. We get it. Dont' read it. Don't read others like it.
However, respect the fact that some of the audience may be interested in what the competition is doing. REspect the fact that you can provide interesting feedback beyond being simply critical of what you personally don't like.

I have enjoyed the article and the feedback since, and now I am wondering, based on the comments, has there been a measured decline in use of Flash across the internet, and by how much, over the last four years?

Is Flash losing ground in general?

And without this article I would be thinking that maybe flash is going away anyway.

E

you know as well I do that flash IS a resource hog. Even on my macbook running a 2 ghz core duo with 2 gigs of ram and 256 megs of video memory, shared by the nvidia gpu. I still have issues navigating through site like Nike.com. A very flash based website.
If you just look at these tablets, they don't have ddr3 ram(as an example), fast front side buses or dedicated(dedicated is expensive as hell) or shared video memory.
Tablet are striped down in terms of power. So with that said, those tablet makers better be careful playing up all that 3D bull**** like LG and other crazy a** performance heavy sh** on those devices.
The ipad is a leisurely device. Not a powerhouse like a macbook pro. It does what it does in a great way, IMHO. I have one and I love it.
Yet be weary of the other tablets makers promising you the ability to run, at the same time, full Maya and full Photoshop where you can navigate through each one without a hiccup. Oh yeah, and browse the web with flash installed.

Because they're posting at least one article like this a week (often more). It's petty, it's pointless (again, most people don't read AI to decide if they like Apple products or not), and it allows them to ignore significant issues that ARE Apple related. You know, like IAP.

They passed it off as "traditional companies clinging to the old business model" when it's hardly that simple.

See Readability's issue here: http://blog.readability.com/2011/02/...tter-to-apple/

Yeah, that's just them trying to "freeload" off of the iOS ecosystem alright.

This isn't an Android blog, it's not even a general tech blog. It's a site that people go to for APPLE related news and analysis. It's not a question of what I do or don't like. There might be people who are interested in this article. Then let them go to Android Central, AnDroid Life, or some other Android related blog. If they can't do that, then go to Engadget, BGR or some other General Tech blog. This site is Apple news, not "Let's defend the company by dragging the competition through the dirt" cheerleaders inc.

A well-written sarcasm is powerful only when one does not indicate that it's a sarcasm. And, if you do like the Xoom, buy it and share with us your experience.

Check the response to your post below, how sarcasm is meant to work.


And, if Xoom happens to work (view many sites) without flash, it will prove that Flash is not essential and not universal, as many who simply regurgitates the Adobe mantra.


CGC

And yet on my two year old PC laptop with bargin bin specs, it runs fine.

Maybe the issue ISN'T the software, but the hardware. Flash isn't perfect, but it's only one side of the issue here. Apple STILL won't let flash write the code to use Hardware acceleration (unless the video inside the wrapper is h.264) which is why Mac's struggle so much with Flash and those of us with PC's wonder why everyone is complaining about it so much.

But it is fun to read the article and comments here and at Android Central and see how they differ. It is both entertaining and informative. The sites hype different aspects (good and bad ones) and the comments definitely bring up a lot of topics not seen on the opposing site. If AI doesn't post this article, you don't get balance between those for and against.

E

Then dont go to Macrumors they actually post facts (not just rumors) and post stuff about other Apple products (not just Macs), as well as the same stuff about competition in the field Apple competes in. Funny how that works.

You're not getting balance anyway. the ONLY news AI posts on with Android is if they can paint the OS in a negative light. That's not providing another viewpoint, that's propaganda, which judging by iOS's profit share (and mindshare) they won't need.

If you want "balanced news" read the actual press release and then read the article posted at a site like Android Central and Engadget and read the responses. Unlike this site, both of those sites post the bad news along with the good.

Again, you don't see ANY major Android blog posting tripe about Apple whenever they can. IN fact, I have yet to read any story on any android blog (even the "fanboyish" ones) that goes on about apple's IAP. See, most of them do what their title entails, they post on the news relevant to their platform.

AI's become akin to the jealous cheerleader who tries running over the quarterback from their rival school.

See the irony is that it DOES work. If Android Central, Android Life, etc publish an article, it's guaranteed to be directly android related. Heck, they're not all positive ones either (imagine that! Criticism from a fan site)

It appears that the urge to go out of your way to bash the competition while avoiding the negative aspects of your own preferred platform is something that's also largely an iOS exclusive.

That's because Android is so fragmented they have to spend all their time covering the dozens of android devices out there.

Seeing people defend Apple's failure to support Flash makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, kind of like you would when you see a small child saying something completely nonsensical. They're so wrong, and they don't even know it, you just can't help but smile at them and pat their head.

You could say everything bad there is to say about Flash; it's a battery hog, it's buggy, it's losing relevance, it's not secure, etc. But the fact of the matter is, none of these are the #1 reason why Apple refuses to allow it on its iOS devices.

Flash is a development platform that can deliver applications and content via the browser, and Apple can't control it. It would be like allowing a big ol' gate in those high, thick granite walls that Apple has sealed their garden within.

The lemmings that live within the garden are only allowed to eat the plants that Farmer Jobs has allowed to be planted. Farmer Jobs doesn't feel they're smart enough to venture out into the world beyond those walls. I wholly disagree with him, but alas, I have no power to free the poor creatures.

Responding to a point with a red herring (no matter how funny you think it is) doesn't further the discussion.

There's a TON of Apple news out there. The fact that most gen tech blogs spend an inordinate portion of their page covering it should show you that. The problem is that DED and apparently some other writers here have a dislike for anything non-Apple and a Hatred for all things Google/Android. They should keep their rants to their personal blog, or stop pretending this is an Apple news site and call it what it is: Apple's Crusaders

Calling Apple fans lemmings every time Flash proves to be a POS is getting rather old. Wasn't Flash supposed to be working perfectly on mobile devices in the summer of '09...I mean the fall of '09....wait...the spring of '10....or no....the summer of '10...dang it...no...the fall of '10...shoot...no...but by the wint....errrrrr....spring of '11 the Xoom will have Flash and BY GOD it will eat the iPad's lunch. Oh...maybe not.

I'll say it's related. You yourself as well.

'Cry' would be least of the issues......

Actually, pretty much all the car websites still use Flash. Most depressing (and irritating).

If indeed you are here to get "news", then you have greater problem that is common among those who consume internet information.

And, in the quote above, you are even confusing Apple Insider, as if they are synonymous with Apple.

Apple Insider is not based on altruism, nor in the search of what is factual and true. But, Apple Insider is not alone in this. Many internet sites are founded with more consideration on "sticky eyes", and those that create clash among opposing camps. They generate passionate accusations, defense and counter accusations, etc., etc.

Sticky visitors are the lifeblood of many internet sites because they matter advertisers. The latter pay the bills.

It is a dark reality, but in the internet age the veracity of information and search for truth have not become the prime motivations, if at all.

CGC

Huh? Please don't get defensive and troll me, I didn't call Apple fans lemmings. I just used lemmings as an analogy.

A lemming isn't anything bad, it's just a cute furry animal. See? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming

I merely used them as an analogy since it's a little animal, and fits with the "walled garden" analogy I often see in regards to the iTunes ecosystem.

I know you really like Apple and want to defend it, but there's no need to get all angry with me. Let's keep this discussion civil. We can be friends.

Wow.

And, I take it that believe your perspective is correct, so everyone else must not be. And must be lemmings. Must be a lot of lemmings to make Apple the most valuable tech company, at present.

And, you post here to attempt to save these lemmings from their utter nonsense? That about sums it?

But, there is one flaw if that is your messianic quest, like many who believe they are privy to the word of god and thus the keeper of truth.

If these Apple acolytes are nonsensical, how can they have the intelligence to fathom your superiority -- the truth in your words beyond reproach? Or, do you expect these lemmings to be simply mesmerized by the power of your words, you being the keeper of truth, and another privy to a greater being, and become lemmings to your quest for their salvation.

CGC




Double Wow!

CGC

Actually, directly from the article itself:

"In addition to performance issues, Jobs said the delays in bringing Flash to mobile devices were also evidence that it is not suited for the iPad or iPhone.

"Adobe publicly said that Flash would ship on a smartphone in early 2009, then the second half of 2009, then the first half of 2010, and now they say the second half of 2010," Jobs wrote. "We think it will eventually ship, but we're glad we didn't hold our breath. Who knows how it will perform?""

Therefore, unless and until someone actually produces a working version of Flash on a tablet or smartphone, and a version that doesn't suck the daylights out of the battery, and a version that makes the device more usable than it would be otherwise, then this topic is COMPLETELY relevant to my decision as to whether I am going to buy an iPad, or not.

Jobs has said Flash is useless on these types of devices. Fandroids and Motorola and others have said Jobs is full of it. And yet here they go again with more false advertising and an inability to prove Jobs wrong even slightly.

I am in the market for a tablet this year. I am leaning towards iPad. This topic is entirely relevant to me. The best you can say in defense of the Xoom or of Flash is you don't care for the way Applensider writes articles. Lame! If that's the best that Adobe and Motorola's paid trolls can do, I'd wager that the Xoom is Doomed!

A lot of tech blogs dedicated to a single topic (Windows, Android, Apple) do this. http://www.winsupersite.com/ for example slams Apple and any competitor to Microsoft any chance it gets. I'm not saying that makes it right, but personally I enjoy it. I'm an Apple user all the way but still drop in on the competition just to see what they are saying about Apple.

Very narrow thinking. There is a platform war playing out before our eyes. Once in a generation stuff. I for one consider the nature of how that plays out from all possible angles to be very pertinent to the Apple story and appreciate the broad level of news and insight that AI provides in that respect. Of course there is a certain bias, but ALL consumption content is biased in some way. it is up the the content consumer to bring there own judgment to the engagement to derive real value.

Even if the xoom launched with flash, the ipad still wouldn't have it. Thus the news of Xoom having flash (or not) has no impact on if someone will get an ipad or not.

I'm also NOT defending the xoom. See, that's another issue. Everything is "Us Vs Them." In fact, you don't even need to MENTION an Android product before people start calling you a fandroid here, you simply need to say that the way Apple does something (anything) is less than ideal.

The fact that you have to simplify the argument to "You either like apple, or you're defending the competition" is kind of sad. Like those Android users who turn every discussion into something about a Walled Garden, or other iOS users who use the word Fragmentation like it was going out of style.

I just TOLD YOU it affects my decision in a profound way. As other's have said, this is a platform war. I have a very definite interest in the outcome. Motorola is using Flash as a key selling point of their tablet vs. Apple's. So far, the claims seem completely bogus and strawman-like.


Actually, for me and millions of others it is precisely "us vs. them". I won't be buying BOTH an iPad AND a XOOM, and I am sure that's the case for 99% of tablet buyers out there.

The rest of your comment isn't on topic. As others have said, if you don't like the article, don't read it. Personally, I want to know how this platform war surrounding Flash is going to play out. And I am very interested in knowing if there are viable alternatives to iPad and if Flash could be the differentiating factor. Motorola has posited Flash as a differentiator in my buying decision, so this article is very relevant to those interested in Apple's products.

I enjoy keeping up with the news everyday, but I don't like the bias Fox news presents so I don't go to that site to get my news. It's really that simple.

There isn't a "Certain" bias. The Bias is: Apple does no wrong, everyone else is pathetic. THAT'S narrow thinking.

That's no useful insight. That's cheer leading. Yes, everyone has a bias, but very few tech sites are so unabashedly blatant with it. That type of bias doesn't encourage users to use their own judgement and engage in discussion. It's preaching to the choir. The people who think Apple does know wrong will cheer, those who think it's Evil inc will ignore/troll and the rest of us will either see it as an amusing (if uninformative) distraction or be left with more confusion than when we started.

The Platform war is NOT Android V Apple, or Apple V Flash. Heck, it's not even "Open" v closed, at least not in the traditional sense.

What's going on here is that a Hardware company (Apple) is trying to dictate the content you get on a device you pay for by acting as a toll collector. Some people will equate this to xBox live, or PSN, or something similar, but the Platform war is happening because the Internet, how we get information, is going mobile. You're phone isn't just a phone, it's not just a music/game player either. In fact, those are just a fraction of what it is. It's your connection to the internet, your email device, your social networking tool, etc. It's replacing things your COMPUTER did, not something a "closed" system like Xbox provides.

That's the platform war. The future of the web, and the devices we consume it on. Apple's trying to say that your iphone is akin to an xbox where ALL content purchased for it has to pay their dues to Apple. For companies like Netflix, Readability, or Amazon, your iPhone (or Droid, Berry, etc) is just a mobile COMPUTER.

Articles like this one just reinforce the fact that AI will NEVER tackle that question because you can't spit shine it, so it's easier to throw tar at the competition. If you're interested in Apple and the future of mobile devices (like the iPhone, iPad, etc) you should find such an attitude offensive.

Besides that unlike fox news, you generally get your news online by way of either a search engine or (if you have a mobile device) some form of an RSS reader. If you're like me and like keeping an eye on trending terms (say, Android) AI's news articles continue to pop up like jack Russel terriers at the front door.

Yes, you're right, I could simply refrain from commenting. But that wouldn't stop the articles, and it wouldn't stop the notifications on my phone. And on top of that, sites like this do nothing but continue to let a certain niche pat themselves on the back for beating up the other team. That type of site breeds nothing but ignorance.

Sure, I could ignore it, but ignoring it doesn't solve the problem.

So you go to a site called APPLE INSIDER to read up on potential competitors to an APPLE product? That's like reading Steve Ballmer's blog to get an idea of what Apple is doing with OSX


If you want to know how the "war" about flash is going to play out, then you should read a site written by someone OTHER than the cheer team for the company leading the "war" against it.

Actually I read lots of web sites, but thank YOU for looking out for ME.

But seriously, while we're on topic, do you have any links to any articles that also point out Motorola's misleading advertising and an at least somewhat objective view as to what having Flash will mean for a tablet owner, assuming it's not entirely vaporware? I've looked but I can't find anything other than "apple sucks, Steve Jobs wants to control my life, Flash is awesome and you can't properly enjoy the web without it".

Let me know if you find anything on this topic that isn't blatant Adobe/Google cheerleading/Apple bashing. Thanks in advance. \

Best comment this week! I love it!

Ah, if other sites do this then it's not exactly unique is it?

Besides I rather like these posts about the competition. I certainly won't go to the Fandroid sites expecting to read anything like this.

Beyond AI, I consume content across the web, thank you. In regards to the 'war', flash is only one aspect or 'battle' if you continue the theme. The 'war' is for establishment off the dominant ecosystem of the next computing era, that era WILL be mobile.

No. You're completely wrong on this. There are scores of readers who do like to read this since it doesn't seem to be covered elsewhere. Remember: This site is unique!

As was pointed out before, read the headline and if you don't like the topic, delete it and move on. Don't waste your precious time coming here and complaining about a topic because it does you no good (other than to rant and rave, but who cares?) and we readers are beginning to ignore you since you don't have anything positive to contribute. Oh, I know that there are others in that category as well but you seem to be the most vicious.

Please respect the article authors and the rest of the forum community.

Let's see if your sniveling stops AI from posting this type of article.