Originally Posted by SDW2001
Eh...wow. If you honestly believe that all wars have started with prejudice and underlying assumptions, then you are clearly living in bizarro world. There are a 1,000 scenarios that could lead to it. Many of those have nothing to do with underlying assumptions.They have to do with mad leaders or religious fanatics
Right...that's not an underlying assumption and - thank God - it is never ever ever ever ever ever shared by our glorious and truthful leaders when - unfortunately, nobly and with deepest regret - they lead us into hell and carnage.
Oh, and one more thing. Just say what you freaking mean.
Always do man, not my fault if you can't comprehend it....I try to help you get up to speed but there is a limit to my powers...
Your statements above are clearly meant to suggest it is the West's ignorance and prejudice that will lead to war. Grow a pair and write what you mean.
Think I did - I can reiterate if you find it difficult to understand: reductionist and uninformed prejudice like yours - when shared by leaders who have power but no intelligence and are just as biased - will, when faced with possibilities of conflict, inevitably lead to war.
Don't know how much clearer I can be.
And you're calling me "silly?
I'm being polite.
There are other words for people who claim expert knowledge of things they know nothing about. I choose not to use them.
The two events are very different. They are taking place in different cultures. There are different groups/factions that stand to rise to power. How can you fail to acknowledge the potential for things to get worse?
I don't fail to acknowledge it - I know it is a certainty if people with your view - ie your 'leaders' and role models who you support and in the abstract the US and Israel - have their way.
Or put another way: the US have fucked up the region for decades and will do so again - of course things CAN GET WORSE.
I am merely questioning:
1) why you're blaming BEFORE THE FACT the Arab people themselves for the FUCK UP THAT HAS NOT YET HAPPENED BUT IF IT DOES WILL BE DOWN TO PEOPLE WITH ATTITUDES LIKE YOURS.
2) Why you cannot support the Arab people in their fight for freedom but have to dis it.
There is a very real chance that the governments put in place may be as bad or worse than the ones they replace.
NO. There is 100% certainty that if THE ARAB PEOPLE ARE FREE TO CHOOSE you will hate their choice.
But don't worry...Uncle Sam may yet save them and you'll be able to relax.
There is also a real chance that the people in question will experience freedom. Why do you find that unreasonable?
Because the US does not - and never has - dispensed freedom.
And that is the only framework in which you can conceive of 'freedom'.
You are less free than they are even now. And yet you don't know it...which makes you even LESS free.
Well, you apparently don't even have a passing familiarity with faiths, or perhaps a serious memory problem. Christianity, Islam and Judiasm all discuss the End of Times.
The Bible states that the nations of the world will unite against Israel, and an epoch battle will take place.
I see your statement and raise you....... exact quote please. Clue - don't bother checking anywhere but Revelation - it will narrow it down but you'll still be shit out of luck.
I assumed nothing. I was merely pointing out one account of the coming of the End Times. That said, if Arab nations united against Israel, wouldn't this put Israel itself in jeopardy? This could lead to nuclear war, particularly of an Arab country does get the bomb.
Which Arab country do you think has the bomb? Or is near? If I recall correctly then the nearest one - let's not tell you which that might be, makes it more fun - is as much as 15 years off.
I guess Israel will wait around to be bombed though.
Back in the real world: Israel could NEVER be in jeopardy from ANYONE. Full Stop. Even if they got sloppy the US takes their security more seriously than they do yours.
The only reason it would be framed that way is if I was completely anti-Israel and somewhat anti-US...like you. There is no reason to frame it that way, unless you consistently strive to paint the aforementioned countries as the world's prime evils.
You still haven't explained why YOU frame things the way you do. And that;s what we're discussing.
The only thing you have "explained" is your OPINION. That opinion is contradicted by many sources I've read, and I do not find it credible at this point.
Get new sources. Just because they are 'yours' does not make them valid.
Whether you like it or not, there are those who pervert Islam and do not follow its tenets as intended.
I am aware of that - I am questioning whether you are.
What are the tents of Islam for example? Who is perverting them and how? I question whether you know this....
Some, like Ahmadinejad may not just be fanatical, but mad.
Or you may be...
Thanks btw - you just proved my above comment that you know nothing of Islam and need new sources.
It's interesting that you consistently deny this, because you have no problem pointing out extreme Christians who stray from what you see as the tenets of Christianity. Hmmm. Biased much?
Deaf much? I constantly point out Muslims who have - imo - strayed. Though only God is the judge of that. Had an ongoing debate with Nightcrawler about it up until a week ago.
I'm more interested in why you never note this...actually, scrub that...I know why.
I think it's great. I'm just concerned about who steps into the power vacuum. It could be good...or very bad.
Agreed....but hopefully the US can but out and we'll be ok.
The thread is three posts long. It has no "underpinnings" yet. Unlike you though, I am not going to sit back and pronounce that everything we see happening is good. It could be good. It could also go very wrong. How you cannot see this is beyond me.
I think it does....I think it did from the first few words.
I don't see the connection there.
Shackles placed upon them by whom?
Those with a vested interest in doing so....
I realize this is something for which you have been hoping, for some unknown reason. I don't think you can make the leap though. People overthrowing their oppressive governments does not mean the West is dying. It may mean the East is rising, which should be a good thing.
You cannot see the West is dying for several reasons....
1) You only see with Western eyes - and they are blinded as part of the process
2) You cannot accept it intellectually - this is understandable
3) It has not really hit home yet....but it will in the next few years and starting I would say towards the end of this one.
All things must pass...in a sense we are privileged to be alive to witness such a period....it only happens rarely and at gaps of perhaps hundreds if not thousands of years.