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Does the defecit matter? - Page 2

post #41 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcUK View Post

Who cares if they collapse? Its always been a confidence trick. You start again with something equally as valueless, and repeat the whole game for another 200 years.

Not really, but whatever.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #42 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Not really, but whatever.

you mean you actually buy into this notion that scraps of paper have value?

If you make your 1 Amero worth 1,000,000,000 hyper inflated dollars, you can play the game all over right?

Of course you can, there may be a time-lag while confidence builds, but when you have no choice but to use Ameros, you will soon forget about its dollar value.

Scared you'll be a loser MJ. Perhaps you should stop the currency neurosis and start really believing in Jesus.He will deliver you wont he?
post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcUK View Post

you mean you actually buy into this notion that scraps of paper have value?

Absolutely not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcUK View Post

Scared you'll be a loser MJ. Perhaps you should stop the currency neurosis and start really believing in Jesus.He will deliver you wont he?

I should have detected this earlier, but now I see it more clearly. Later.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Absolutely not.



I should have detected this earlier, but now I see it more clearly. Later.

indeed, its bedtime, sweet currency dreams or nightmares...
post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Absolutely not.



I should have detected this earlier, but now I see it more clearly. Later.

There is a reason he was banned, multiple times, before. He is just warming up...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #46 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I know. And the Chinese know too and have been steadily converting their dollar holdings into real wealth like land, factories, gold, etc.

Chinese treasury holdings have jumped a lot in the last year.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...uments/mfh.txt
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #47 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Chinese treasury holdings have jumped a lot in the last year.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...uments/mfh.txt

Yes they have.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #48 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes they have.

doesn't that kind of refute your point about the Chinese diversifying away from the dollar, and trying to make the Yuan the world's new reserve currency?
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #49 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

doesn't that kind of refute your point about the Chinese diversifying away from the dollar, and trying to make the Yuan the world's new reserve currency?

His point is valid. The Fed is simply printing so many dollars that for China to ride the back of this bear, they still have to buy quite a few of them even while trying to take those actions.

As the saying goes, when you owe the bank a million dollars and you can't pay, you've got a problem. When you owe the bank a billion dollars and can't pay, THEY'VE got a problem.

The U.S. is trying to make sure China has a problem.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #50 of 54
Whether you think the deficit matters or not, in this climate of ignorance combined with attitudes of entitlement it's unlikely to change:

CNN Poll: Americans flunk budget IQ test

Quote:
If you think cutting the government's budget is as easy as taking the ax to some unpopular federal programs, a new national poll suggests that you should think again.

According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Friday, most Americans think that the government spends a lot more money than it actually does on such unpopular programs as foreign aid and public broadcasting.

Quote:
"The public has a better idea of how much the government spends on programs like Social Security and Medicare, but there is a related problem - cutting them has little public support," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "The result: cutting unpopular programs would probably not cut the deficit very much, and cutting the deficit would probably require cuts in programs that Americans like."

Quote:
Let's start with international assistance. Sixty percent of people we questioned say they'd like to put foreign aid on the chopping block. So would that make a dent in the deficit?

No - but try telling that to the American public. According to the poll, on average, Americans estimate that foreign aid takes up 10 percent of the federal budget, and one in five think it represents about 30 percent of the money the government spends. But the actual figure is closer to one percent, according to data from the Office of Management and Budget from the 2010 fiscal year's $3.5 trillion budget.

OK. Let's try more low-hanging fruit - funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Our survey indicates nearly half of all Americans would like to see major cuts.

According to our poll the public estimates that the government spent five percent of its budget last year on public television and radio.

Not even close. The real answer is about one-tenth of one percent.

Want more examples?

Cutting pensions and benefits for government workers is popular, but once again most Americans overestimate how much that costs the government. On average, Americans think the federal government spent 10 percent of its 2010 budget on pensions and retiree benefits; the OMB figures indicate the real number is about 3.5 percent.

A sizeable minority would like to see food and housing assistance for the poor on the chopping block, but Americans' estimates of how much the government spends on those programs are three to four times higher than the actual price tag.

Cuts in military spending also have some support - more than a third of all Americans favor cuts in that area. But the public, once again, overestimates the amount of military spending. They told us 30 percent in our poll. In reality only 19 percent of the 2010 budget went towards military spending, according to 2010 OMB figures.

Regarding Social Security:

Quote:
"Budget experts agree that cutting a target that big would be a good start toward getting the deficit under control. Problem is, 87 percent of people we surveyed don't want to decrease the amount of money spent on Social Security - and four in ten would like to see that figure grow. The same is generally true for Medicare and Medicaid, which combined made up 19 percent of last year's budget," adds Holland.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #51 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I don't think it is quite that simple. China is our primary lender - and they have a US dollar surplus because they keep their currency artificially low.

They end up selling yuan and buying dollars to suppress the yuan, then investing the surplus dollars in treasuries. It is a predatory practice on their part, designed to keep them at full employment and to discourage imports of goods - we are stealing from each other in other words.

The current situation is unsustainable - and I don't think that the defect would go down much no matter how much we tried to cut budgets due to the resulting lower tax revenue.

China is not our primary lender per se. They are the largest foreign holder of debt. I believe WE are the largest holder of debt.

As for the deficit: I think that deficits of under $400 billion probably don't matter that much. I don't know that they are sustainable forever, but they won't cause disaster if our economy keeps growing. But deficits that are 50% of the budget and $1.5 trillion in actual dollars are likely going to lead to disaster.

The answer to unfunded obligations is one no one wants to hear: We should phase-out Social Security completely. If we're going to keep it, we need to change the way it's funded by instituting a national sales tax. Ditto on Medicare. The problem is that people now view retirement as a RIGHT, not a luxury. They view SS as their primary income source. This is bad, and unsustainable.
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post #52 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

China is not our primary lender per se. They are the largest foreign holder of debt. I believe WE are the largest holder of debt.

(I know. I know)

Who is "we" here? Do you mean individual US citizens and US companies?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

As for the deficit: I think that deficits of under $400 billion probably don't matter that much. I don't know that they are sustainable forever, but they won't cause disaster if our economy keeps growing. But deficits that are 50% of the budget and $1.5 trillion in actual dollars are likely going to lead to disaster.

Well, the relatvie size (to GDP, to the budget, etc.) matters more than the nominal amount. But I think we cannot run deficits in perpetuity without negative consequences. It just might take a longer time for those consequences to manifest themselves if the deficit is smaller.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The answer to unfunded obligations is one no one wants to hear: We should phase-out Social Security completely.

Yes, and Medicare also.

First step with SS is to adjust eligibility age to align with what it was when it was started...about 1-2 years before average lifespan (this would be close to 80 now...it was 60-65 then). It was intended as last ditch safety net old age insurance. Second is means testing. Third is break the bad news to the youngest generation. There will be none when you get to that age so start saving for yourself.

These are hard, they might both seem and actually be unfair. But short of just a hard crash for the system, this is the smoothest approach.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #53 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

(I know. I know)

Who is "we" here? Do you mean individual US citizens and US companies?

.

The debt is US government debt. The debt is held by US corporations, citizens, banks, investment firms, etc.

Quote:


Well, the relatvie size (to GDP, to the budget, etc.) matters more than the nominal amount. But I think we cannot run deficits in perpetuity without negative consequences. It just might take a longer time for those consequences to manifest themselves if the deficit is smaller.

Anything matters more than a nominal amount. I agree we cannot run them without consequences. What I'm saying is those consequences would be much, much further down the road. We're now running deficits 4x higher than the Bush deficits. The deficit is larger than the entire budget for FY 2001. The clock is ticking...and it's moving faster every day.

Quote:


Yes, and Medicare also.

First step with SS is to adjust eligibility age to align with what it was when it was started...about 1-2 years before average lifespan (this would be close to 80 now...it was 60-65 then). It was intended as last ditch safety net old age insurance. Second is means testing. Third is break the bad news to the youngest generation. There will be none when you get to that age so start saving for yourself.

Agreed. Completely.

Quote:

These are hard, they might both seem and actually be unfair. But short of just a hard crash for the system, this is the smoothest approach.

The problem is people think retirement is a RIGHT. My Dad saw a prime example of this recently. He was at a party and talking within a group of people. One very liberal woman was talking about her father who was turning 65. She was arguing for more social security and medicare benefits. She asked "He's 65! What is he supposed to DO?" My Dad responded "Let me tell you something. My grandfather died on on the job at the age of 92. And do you know why he was working? Because he needed the money." This represents one of the main problems: An entitlement culture.
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post #54 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The debt is held by US corporations, citizens, banks, investment firms, etc.

OK. Just wanted to be clear on what you meant. Thanks.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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