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Apple may introduce user interface overhaul in Mac OS X 10.7 Lion - Page 2

post #41 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by enjourni View Post

Nope. Lion is 10.7. Apple still has 10.8 and 10.9 to play with.

High odds that 10.8 will be "Mountain Lion".
post #42 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

The lion is the king of the jungle; there is nothing beyond a lion.

I wonder if perhaps it will be not only the biggest, baddest OS ever, but also the last computer OS from Apple.

"Computers are trucks."

Is Apple, who makes so much money in consumer electronics, going to continue to spend their wheels in the trucking business where they've garnered at most a 10% market share after 20 years of trying? Hard to say.

We saw what "Back to the Mac" meant. It didn't mean bringing the company's focus back to the Mac, it meant bringing iOS features to Mac.

Maybe the two will merge....

The mac is a profitable and growing business -- no need to walk away from that.

But I think you raise some good questions that I've also been wondering. If iOS and MacOS converge, I suspect it won't happen for at least another 5 years. And if it happens, it will involve iOS moving "up" just as much as Mac OS moving "down". iOS needs things like a file system while Mac OS needs things like greater simplicity / stability. And I don't mean "stability" in the "protected memory" sense -- I mean stability in the "resistance to user-induced entropy" sense. A user can accidentally "muck up" OSX to a degree that just isn't possible with iOS.

My guess is that the converged OS would seamlessly shift interface modes depending on context (is your iPad docked via Thunderbolt to a monitor/keyboard/mouse? ok then, shift interface out of touchy-mobility mode and into clicky-desktop mode). I'm guessing it would also hide the unix underpinnings much more deeply than the current Mac OS (ie, you don't even see a "System" or "Library" folder, unless perhaps you enter into some super advanced mode). It's entirely possible that access to the unix underpinning would be restricted to some kind of "developer" mode, the activation of which might require a sequence of obscure, non-obvious steps to keep consumers safe (like installing developer tools.... or maybe developers and power users would get their own "developer" version of the OS).
post #43 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmsley View Post

I'd expect nothing less. Why would you make a major release that looks the same as the last?

They did say "much-anticipated UI overhaul". None of the recent Mac OS X releases got a "UI overhaul". The closest to that being the slanted dock and stacks.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #44 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

They did say "much-anticipated UI overhaul". None of the recent Mac OS X releases got a "UI overhaul". The closest to that being the slanted dock and stacks.

Killing off the pinstripes was a BIG improvement.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by EsquireMac View Post

Can we all agree to stop saying that the Mac App Store is a feature of OS X Lion?

I don't get why people keep saying that.

It's like when Apple was calling iTunes an iLife app.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #46 of 83
I think they need to just make everything coherent again. When I first went to Mac, 10.4 was installed, and somehow everything seemed to look and feel a lot more whole.

Some of the stuff they have added since, whilst useful, don't seem to fit in with everything. Things like Stacks don't seem to look right. Time Machine doens't look like it's as integrated as it is. iTunes having the traffic lights vertical instead of horizontal is wierd.

Fundementally I like the UI, but it does look like it's time for a tidy up.
post #47 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsu View Post

My only question on the next version after lion, if it's an 11.0, would it still be OS X, or OS XI?

why? Why not just Mac OS 11? Max OS 2012 ...? why does the X or any roman numerals need to be there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I doubt very much they would rebrand it since they understand very well the value of brands. Most likely it will just be Mac OS X v11.0. This will freak out the literalists who will insist that the X == Roman numeral for decimal 10 and it should be Mac OS XI v11.0, but at this point it's just part of a brand name so it doesn't really matter. Besides, the redundancy police would remain upset if it became OS XI v11.0. You can't make everyone happy.

Mac OS v11.0 is fine... just drop the X.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enjourni View Post

Nope. Lion is 10.7. Apple still has 10.8 and 10.9 to play with.

and 10.10, 10.11, 10.12, 10.13, 10.14, 10.15, 10.16, 10.17, 10.18 ..... 10.932982347872877834682873473 ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post

High odds that 10.8 will be "Mountain Lion".

very likely, but I'd rather them do Lioness. Lion is mainly about UI changes, just like Lions are mainly about looks and show... 10.8 would be refinements under the hood, just like a Lioness actually does all the work.
post #48 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post

High odds that 10.8 will be "Mountain Lion".

or dandelion.
post #49 of 83
My biggest complaint about the Mac OS 10 UI? The MenuBar. Specifically, the application menus in the MenuBar.

On any large screen, it's frustrating and a contextual switch. On a multi-monitor setup, my desk setup with a MBP 15 + 24" LCD, it's just plain bad. Apple should switch to contextual pop-up menus for Lion. MenuBar would still be there, just the application menus would disappear, to be replaced by pop-up menus.
post #50 of 83
Since they will "introduce the possibility for apps to run in full screen" there's gotta be something more to it than simply full screen. I mean, there is absolutely nothing stopping an app from running in full screen today. So perhaps they got some new nice and big interface jazz up their sleeves... kind'a like iPad meets Dashboard-ish or something. A nice way for UI elements to flow in and out of sight when needed.

Come to think of it, perhaps a reason for waiting with the iWorks update is a true fullscreen mode.
post #51 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

[Well I would hope so: never understood the LaunchPad option: it displays all the Application icons on your desktop while they're also available in the Dock. I mean; this creates two places to launch an app from within a singel view. Different, but similar to Windows QuickLaunch Toolbar

Personally, I think it's a great idea. It would allow me to clean up my dock to the bare essentials. If I want more apps, they're a quick swipe away. They're easily sortable, with large icons, and they disappear when I don't want to look at them. I only wonder if I'll be able to drag a file onto a Launchpad app...
post #52 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

This is nonsense.

For starters, the male Lion is basically "second in command" of the pride, so Lioness's beat Lions hands down. The Lionesses do all the hunting, and they are the ones that hand out the kill to the pride. The big scary male Lion's often have to wait until they are told to eat.

The Lion being the "King of Beasts" or the "King of the Jungle" is just an old British meme that came about because the Lion was the animal figurehead of the British Empire. The obvious clue is that Lion's don't even live in a jungle, but rather on the savanah.


Yeah the female does the hunting, but they don't eat until the males are done. Females are left with scraps. Lions are the Big Guns of the pride. They sit back until a nuke is needed...then they step in and clear the field. See National Geographics Hyena vs Lion.

Good post none the less. Cheers
post #53 of 83
I'd like a user interface that actually allows you to find out what the app can do.

Apple like to clean up the interface by hiding features behind adhoc pointer/keyboard combinations, so it's guesswork as to what features are there, or even which parts of the canvas are active. If you hide the controls, great, but there must be a method, standard to every screen, that lets you systematically discover all the features. Apple are *terrible* at this.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #54 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

@elmsley



Yes, because as we all know, the essense of an OS release is HOW IT LOOKS.

Hey, that's a huge part of the attraction. When you visit the website to learn about it, watch a demo video, or turn on your own computer, the GUI is essential to the user's impression and feel about an OS.

Can you imagine if OS X used a green and blue taskbar? Bleh
post #55 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

...How about we stop prejudging and criticising software we've yet to see in the wild and making negative comments based on supposition and guesswork....

Um, because it's called past experience...
post #56 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

The lion is the king of the jungle; there is nothing beyond a lion.

I wonder if perhaps it will be not only the biggest, baddest OS ever, but also the last computer OS from Apple.

"Computers are trucks."

Is Apple, who makes so much money in consumer electronics, going to continue to spend their wheels in the trucking business where they've garnered at most a 10% market share after 20 years of trying? Hard to say.

We saw what "Back to the Mac" meant. It didn't mean bringing the company's focus back to the Mac, it meant bringing iOS features to Mac.

Maybe the two will merge....

Macs are still extremely profitable for Apple. The success of the iPhone/iPod/iPad lines is aided by its existence and Apple's entire ideology is based around having a complete IT structure where users don't have to turn to Windows or the like. I cannot fathom why anyone in their right mind would consider dropping the Mac line. It will not happen.

However good Lion turns out to be, there will still be advancements in the future that will require updates to the OS. 10.7 will not be the last version of OSX.

It may well be that as mobile devices get more powerful they will use a more and more similar version of OSX to the desktop/notebook line and the device will simply use the front end best suited to its form factor. I'd expect that, but I do not see a world without Notebooks and Desktops. However good your iPad gets, the contemporary notebook or desktop will always be faster, with a larger screen and that 'base of operations' feeling that users like.

I think Apple's current lineup of products is nearly final. They will get better, but I think the current classes will be here for the foreseeable future. MacBook Airs and MacBook Pros may well merge in time though. It all depends on battery technology advancements I'd say.

Apple has the feeling of being a juggernaut at the moment. Nobody else can offer the totality of device classes that they can. It'll be interesting to see what HP can do with WebOS and what others try to do to survive in the long term against Apple. Microsoft is a crumbling empire, the sick man of Redmond. Its harlots will have to find their own ways to survive!

That got deep...sorry guys!!
post #57 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyp View Post

And how would this be different from his normal condition?\

Ok, I don't know about depression or pills in Ballmer's life, but hygiene... that man breaks into a sweat just breathing.

and dancing and yelling and clapping
post #58 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

This is nonsense.

For starters, the male Lion is basically "second in command" of the pride, so Lioness's beat Lions hands down. The Lionesses do all the hunting, and they are the ones that hand out the kill to the pride. The big scary male Lion's often have to wait until they are told to eat.

The Lion being the "King of Beasts" or the "King of the Jungle" is just an old British meme that came about because the Lion was the animal figurehead of the British Empire. The obvious clue is that Lion's don't even live in a jungle, but rather on the savanah.


Lions are prey to other Lions, young males are kicked out of the pride by the current big males so they don't have competition for the females, a group of those kicked out young males will gang together and when strong enough, attack a pride, once the cubs have been killed and the male older lions killed or forced out the females accept the new males as in charge.

The reason male lions stay behind is because taking out an exotic deer is not challenging, fighting a whole group of young male lions is.
post #59 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Yeah, they could start in on the primates. That would be interesting. Even skipping over a few like marmosets and lemurs there would still be plenty of names. In a couple million years they might reach Mac OS Hominid.

Once Apple makes an OS that I can talk to very fast without errors, and ask real deep meaningul question like on Star Trek then I'll get excited, but while I still have to type into a keyboard to enter text and navigate using my fingers forget it.

I'd also like them to create hollow deck characters I can inteact with and have sex with Cmd Riker!

Computer!
post #60 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Killing off the pinstripes was a BIG improvement.

Hardly an "overhaul".
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #61 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

Macs are still extremely profitable for Apple.

Not to mention that they do A LOT OF THINGS iPads cannot do, and won't be able to do FOR YEARS.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #62 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Not to mention that they do A LOT OF THINGS iPads cannot do, and won't be able to do FOR YEARS.

Or ever. Even if we include an eventual iOS evolution to something akin to the Motorola Atrix, but actually usable, we are still looking at an iDevice that is acting like a Mac (I.e., a desktop computer).
post #63 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

People keep saying that kind of fluff, but as of what exactly they'd like to see (save for mind-reading UIs) they are as vague as The Pixies lyrics...

Most want some kind of 3D interfaces that are ill-suited to everyday tasks and have proven to be a hard-to-use gimmicky failure in every specific implementation that we know of.

You make a good point, although before OS X was introduced, I for one never could have imagined the visual leap forward. If someone would have asked me then what I wanted to see in OS X, I wouldn't have known what to say, only that I would know it when I saw it. Same goes for now. I am ready for the next leap, but I can't imagine what Apple is cooking up in their labs...I just hope it blows me away.
post #64 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by uberben View Post

Lions are prey to other Lions, young males are kicked out of the pride by the current big males so they don't have competition for the females, a group of those kicked out young males will gang together and when strong enough, attack a pride, once the cubs have been killed and the male older lions killed or forced out the females accept the new males as in charge.

The reason male lions stay behind is because taking out an exotic deer is not challenging, fighting a whole group of young male lions is.

Is this AppleInsider or Animal Planet? Seriously, I think some of you are putting way too much thought into the OS X naming scheme. As long as they don't call it Mac OS Turd, I don't really care what nickname they give it.
post #65 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

Once Apple makes an OS that I can talk to very fast without errors, and ask real deep meaningul question like on Star Trek then I'll get excited, but while I still have to type into a keyboard to enter text and navigate using my fingers forget it.

As long as there is still a keyboard/touchpad option for those of us who sometimes like to listen to music while using the computer... otherwise singing along could cause havoc!
Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
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Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha
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post #66 of 83
Ok. I am getting my first Mac since my last apple I owned was an Apple IIE. Yes pathetic I worked on Macs in HS 1990-93. But once in college my first computer I owned was Windows. My 2009iPhone 3GS purchase has changed that!!

Anyway, I been trying to figure out what you mean by "full screen" on a Mac. I finally get it, the dock is the Windows Desktop and their desktop is covered when in "full screen" does this mean that the new Mac "full screen" will cover the dock as well. I ask this cause I was in the NYC Fifth Avenue store testing the 27"iMac and noticed when i went to maximize the windows it didnt go full screen I had to drag the corners to expand it. Of course I stopped at the dock. I want to utilize that 27" screen without covering the dock the best I can.

So my final question will this new "full screen" on Mac cover the dock? I hope not. yes the full screen is what i prefer just dont cover the dock I like that the fact i won't have to close or minimize an application window to access the dock(desktop) like i do with the Dell I own now.

FYI: Yes I plan on buying a 27"iMac I juswt was waiting til the summer for 2 reasons:

1) Switching from PC since owning an Apple computer since Apple IIE and not used a Mac since 1990-1993 I didn't want to have to learn 2 seperate OS's in 6 months.

2) Knowing that tyhe iMac line refresh is coming soon!
post #67 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

...but there must be a method ... that lets you systematically discover all the features.

⌥ seems sensible.
post #68 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

@elmsley
Yes, because as we all know, the essense of an OS release is HOW IT LOOKS.

Seems to work for women.
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #69 of 83
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post #70 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

I'd also like them to create hollow deck characters I can inteact with and have sex with Cmd Riker!

Is this what is known as "a few cards short of a full deck" ???? ....
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #71 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

This is nonsense.

For starters, the male Lion is basically "second in command" of the pride, so Lioness's beat Lions hands down. The Lionesses do all the hunting, and they are the ones that hand out the kill to the pride. The big scary male Lion's often have to wait until they are told to eat.

The Lion being the "King of Beasts" or the "King of the Jungle" is just an old British meme that came about because the Lion was the animal figurehead of the British Empire.

They had a reason for picking the beast, don't you think? Something about their size, maybe?

They were native to western Europe until around 100AD, and the Caucasus until around 1000AD. (And used to range through the Americas from the Yukon to Peru.)

Quote:
The obvious clue is that Lion's don't even live in a jungle, but rather on the savan[n]ah.

Except for those lions that happen to live in the jungle, being jungle lions. Such as the Asiatic lions in the Gir Forest of India. The lion's range used to extend up into (heavily forested) Europe and southern Asia. Even now, its African range extends across central Africa, well outside savanna regions.
post #72 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsu View Post

My only question on the next version after lion, if it's an 11.0, would it still be OS X, or OS XI?

After Lion, we'll still probably get 10.8 and 10.9, but I wouldn't be surprised if Apple eventually walks away from X as a brand name and just calls it the Mac OS... leaving us with iOS and Mac OS. So, after 10.9, we'd get Mac OS 11. I'm sure they'll pick another fun branding scheme though. Maybe another animal? Maybe something else entirely. Apple has always been brilliant at that sort of thing. Well, not always. The 90s were a bit of a mess. Oh, those were dark days.
post #73 of 83
By the way... notice that there ISN'T a menu bar in the majority of these images of Lion. That's troubling.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/
post #74 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post

By the way... notice that there ISN'T a menu bar in the majority of these images of Lion. That's troubling.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/

I wouldn't worry about it. It seems like the menu bar is out of view when you are interacting with launchpad, as well as other full screen apps, which makes sense. Right now in Pages, and I think numbers as well you can go to full screen mode where there is no dock or menubar, etc., and I like having the option. Just because of these screenshots I don't infer that Apple is doing away with the menu bar altogether. They could I suppose, but it doesn't seem very likely. One thing is for sure though, if they do something that drastic they will have something even better to replace it with.
post #75 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by acslater017 View Post

Personally, I think it's a great idea. It would allow me to clean up my dock to the bare essentials. If I want more apps, they're a quick swipe away. They're easily sortable, with large icons, and they disappear when I don't want to look at them. I only wonder if I'll be able to drag a file onto a Launchpad app...

Never thought about it that way. Thanks for sharing your view; possibly it will make sense to me after I've upgraded.
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post #76 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post

By the way... notice that there ISN'T a menu bar in the majority of these images of Lion. That's troubling.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/

Thanks for the link, I hadn't seen that page before, although it does only show the snippets revealed at the keynote. One thing that struck me was the need to swipe to use some of those features - will 10.7 be the first OSX iteration that you need a pad of some kind to utilise all of the features?

re File systems. We know ZFS is dead for Apple, but I seem to remember them hiring File System engineers a while back. How about a new FS that works across both OSX and iOS? Perhaps that will have to wait for 10.8 though.
Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha
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Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha
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post #77 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

Macs are still extremely profitable for Apple. The success of the iPhone/iPod/iPad lines is aided by its existence and Apple's entire ideology is based around having a complete IT structure where users don't have to turn to Windows or the like.

First Xserve, then what? Xsan? Mac OS Server?
post #78 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post

After Lion, we'll still probably get 10.8 and 10.9, but I wouldn't be surprised if Apple eventually walks away from X as a brand name and just calls it the Mac OS... leaving us with iOS and Mac OS. So, after 10.9, we'd get Mac OS 11. I'm sure they'll pick another fun branding scheme though. Maybe another animal? Maybe something else entirely. Apple has always been brilliant at that sort of thing. Well, not always. The 90s were a bit of a mess. Oh, those were dark days.

I think Lion is the pinnacle of the OSX tree. I really do believe that Apple choosing the term Lion is symbolic of them planning on 10.7 being the final version of OSX.

There will be a new OS for both iPhone/iPads and macs after that. Plug your phone into a monitor and you'll get a desktop interface, swivel your iMac down and you'll get a touch interface. iOS 5 and 10.7 will probably hint at these features, but a total merger would be a few more years down the road.
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post #79 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

I think Lion is the pinnacle of the OSX tree. I really do believe that Apple choosing the term Lion is symbolic of them planning on 10.7 being the final version of OSX. ...

There are a limited number of big cats, so, eventually they have to run out of names. Following your logic, they had this all planned out when they released Cheetah. The entire idea of attaching that sort of symbolism is just ridiculously absurd.

But, if you want to get ridiculously absurd, how do we explain the backtracking from Tiger to Leopard, and the tiger is certainly a bigger cat than a lion, so why didn't Lion come before Tiger. Why couldn't they backtrack again? It get's pretty murky pretty fast if you try to read that much meaning into the names.
post #80 of 83
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