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'Engineering issues' axed Retina Display, SD card slot from Apple's iPad 2 - report - Page 3

post #81 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

So you'd use Thunderbolt to connect the iPad to a RAID array, or a 30" monitor?
I am sorry, the iPad needs Thunderbolt in the same way that a pushchair needs a chainsaw.

C.

Dammit, someone leaked the plot to my new movie.
post #82 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post

I don't understand your comments either. Just because TB is allot for a tablet doesn't mean a tablet wouldn't benefit.

4) The entire point of TB is to make it easy to convert a universal cable to a "proprietary" cable type. Why not just put TB on the ipad and include a USB adapter if need be?

TB's one port is exactly what a tablet needs. Don't be ridiculous in your assumption that we won't see it on the ipad iphone or ipods. We will most certainly, maybe not next week, but soon.

I would also suspect that we'll see TB on the Ipad as the 2nd port rumors have mentioned or just replace the doc connector all together.

I do like the idea that it will eventually become a universal connector standard.

But honestly, for at least the next two years ThunderBolt will be seen as a Firewire 800 replacement. A professional standard, not a consumer one.

We won't see it on a consumer product.

1) Because it offers no benefit to consumer electronics. I think we will see HDMI before DisplayPort or Thunderbolt. "Clean" video is not really a major issue.

2) Because the connector is too thick for the current iPad. Never mind an ultra-slim iPad.

If light-peak becomes a universal standard we might eventually see the 40 pin adaptor include Thunderbolt technology.

C.
post #83 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

It's also a mini display port, which is better than a VGA adaptor.

Not if the conference-room projector has a VGA input.

C.

(in my experience all conference room projectors have VGA inputs)
post #84 of 103
Regarding the Retina Display on an iPad...what would this do to the battery life? Anyone got a guess? Minor impact?
post #85 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I do like the idea that it will eventually become a universal connector standard.

But honestly, for at least the next two years ThunderBolt will be seen as a Firewire 800 replacement. A professional standard, not a consumer one.

C.

You're probably right, but It's products like the Hyper Drive that make you think about the potential of an ipad with more I/O to support a device more like the NextoDI. Dragging my laptop around for every little shot is unnecessary. I have options, but none are quite as elegant as one that interfaces with an iPad. If the iPad ever gets a retina display it could be a "better" preview than the laptop anyway.

Maybe i Just want an iPad Pro. \
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post #86 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

1) Because it offers no benefit to consumer electronics. I think we will see HDMI before DisplayPort or Thunderbolt. "Clean" video is not really a major issue.

2) Because the connector is too thick for the current iPad. Never mind an ultra-slim iPad.

If light-peak becomes a universal standard we might eventually see the 40 pin adaptor include Thunderbolt technology.

C.

Really? As previously stated, faster syncing and faster charging have a real benefit to consumer electronics even if you don’t think so.

Judging by your comments it’s clear that you don’t realize that if you have Thunderbolt you have mDP which means you have HDMI and VGA, unless they purposely choose not to add the intended backward compatibility, which is quite possible when dealing with an accessory device. It’s not the FireWire and USB pins on the 30-pin connector are the same as FireWire and USB on a Mac.

I don’t think you understood the OP’s comment at all. He suggested that the unused FireWire pins in the 30-pin cable be used just for basic syncing and charging. Why do you think that they would have to use a Thunderbolt port interface on the iPad to make this work?

Why are excluding the possibility of the basic Thunderbolt connectivity in future iDevices, the way they had both FireWire and USB charging/syncing options using the same 30-pin connector with one of two different cable types? Why do you think 16 (or more) pins are needed — for a total of 40 pins — to make basic Thunderbolt syncing/charging a reality? What are these 16+ pins for on a non-host device?
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post #87 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Not if the conference-room projector has a VGA input.

C.

(in my experience all conference room projectors have VGA inputs)

Exactly. And who would want a higher resolution than that? For what reason, actually read the PowerPoint?

Seriously, I don't know a single person that is interested in a new cable or plug. Except for IT colleagues and nerdy friends.
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post #88 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Exactly. And who would want a higher resolution than that? For what reason, actually read the PowerPoint?

Seriously, I don't know a single person that is interested in a new cable or plug. Except for IT folks, colleagues and nerdy friends.

Perhaps you and Carniphage haven’t been familiar with Apple’s products long enough to remember that the first iPods with the 30-pin iPod Dock Connector had FireWire at the other end of the cable.

Only when Apple introduced the Windows version of iTunes did they start including a iPod Dock Connector with USB at the other end. This was needed because most non-Mac “PCs” didn’t have FireWire. They also needed to use the included wall charger since USB1.0 was ruled then.

They shipped two iPod Dock Connector cables with each iPod — one that terminated in the FireWire 400 port interface and one that terminated in the USB-A pot interface — yet each used the same 30-pin dock connector.

In fact, one could speculate with reasonable certainty that Apple planned for this when they designed the 30-pin connector that has been in use for the past years.

Later on they depreciated the FireWire 400 cable by first not including it with new iPods, then by removing the HW for allowing syncing, and finally by removing the ability to charge via this cable (which was a very handy fast charger when you plugged it into a wall socket).

So knowing that there have been multiple cable/protocol types using the 30-pin connector and that the FireWire pins are no longer in use why are you and Carniphage so certain that Apple could not use use them to sync and charge via the Thunderbolt over the well worn iPod Dock Connector?

Surely you two must have some in-depth scientific reasoning to back up your hardened claims that it would require an entirely new port to be added (not to mention your implication that it would mean that backwards compatibility would have to be dropped despite the nature of the technologies being discussed.


PS: I’d also like an explanation to your claim that " I don't know a single person that is interested in a new cable or plug.” Do you you realize that people said that same thing when USB was new, when HDMI was new, and pretty much every new cable/plug tech that came before it. Just imagine if we were still connecting printers with expensive, large and slow parallel cables. Or how about BNC connectors for Token Ring. I think only IBM would be happy with that last one.
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post #89 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Perhaps you and Carniphage havent been familiar with Apples products long enough to remember that the first iPods with the 30-pin iPod Dock Connector had FireWire at the other end of the cable.

It is precisely because these devices exist that Apple wouldn't redefine the dock pins.
Quote:
Only when Apple introduced the Windows version of iTunes did they start including a iPod Dock Connector with USB at the other end. This was needed because most non-Mac PCs didnt have FireWire. They also needed to use the included wall charger since USB1.0 was ruled then.

The wall charger is actually a very worthwhile piece of hardware.
Quote:
They shipped two iPod Dock Connector cables with each iPod one that terminated in the FireWire 400 port interface and one that terminated in the USB-A pot interface yet each used the same 30-pin dock connector.

In fact, one could speculate with reasonable certainty that Apple planned for this when they designed the 30-pin connector that has been in use for the past years.

Of course they planned for it. They knew full well that USB 2 was coming.
Quote:
Later on they depreciated the FireWire 400 cable by first not including it with new iPods, then by removing the HW for allowing syncing, and finally by removing the ability to charge via this cable (which was a very handy fast charger when you plugged it into a wall socket).

So knowing that there have been multiple cable/protocol types using the 30-pin connector and that the FireWire pins are no longer in use why are you and Carniphage so certain that Apple could not use use them to sync and charge via the Thunderbolt over the well worn iPod Dock Connector?

The number one issue is that all of the pins are already defined and it isn't good policy to redefine them. There might also be other issues which we don't know about related to electronics. Plus we don't know how far Apple would go with TB on the iPad, it could very well be more than an endpoint controllerand instead be a full host on the bus. That would be a significant jump for Apple, but if iPad has full control over TB it could answer a lot of peoples request for more I/O on iPad. Eventually TB could be iPads only wired port. If so there would because huge potential for docking stations and other uses. TB on iPad would secure iPads future for some time to come.
Quote:
Surely you two must have some in-depth scientific reasoning to back up your hardened claims that it would require an entirely new port to be added (not to mention your implication that it would mean that backwards compatibility would have to be dropped despite the nature of the technologies being discussed.

There is a couple of things going on here. For one the port is not new it is Mini Display Port. Second the dock connector could be seen as legacy hardware which Apple will eventually have to phase out. As to iPad it isn't going to get extremely thin because in the end rigidity suffers so a display port connector isn't a problem.

I'm just wondering why you are so insistent that it would make sense to put TB on the dock connector? That makes about as much sense as putting USB on a DB9 RS232 port. Once an electrical interface becomes dramatically different you don't want to mix connectors.
Quote:


PS: Id also like an explanation to your claim that " I don't know a single person that is interested in a new cable or plug.

I was actually surprised to hear that statement myself. This is exactly what we need to move beyond funky FireWire and other ports.
Quote:
Do you you realize that people said that same thing when USB was new, when HDMI was new, and pretty much every new cable/plug tech that came before it. Just imagine if we were still connecting printers with expensive, large and slow parallel cables. Or how about BNC connectors for Token Ring. I think only IBM would be happy with that last one.

Up until yesterday I was of the opinion that iPad needed a host USB port now I'm not to sure. TB could be an excelkent upgrade beyond USB. Still iPad would need to work as a peer on that TB bus. IPad needs to be more than a slave device and could use the connectivity of a standard connector.
post #90 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Really? As previously stated, faster syncing and faster charging have a real benefit to consumer electronics even if you don’t think so.

Why do you think Thunderbolt would improve syncing performance?
Do you think that USB performance is currently the limiting factor?


And I did stay that if we see a widespread adoption of lightpeak/thunderbolt technology, we might eventually see it becoming rolled into the 30pin standard. But currently it makes no sense for consumer products. Remember for it to make sense, it has to be applicable to all iOS devices. Including the iPod Nano.

C.
post #91 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Why do you think Thunderbolt would improve syncing performance?
Do you think that USB performance is currently the limiting factor?


And I did stay that if we see a widespread adoption of lightpeak/thunderbolt technology, we might eventually see it becoming rolled into the 30pin standard. But currently it makes no sense for consumer products. Remember for it to make sense, it has to be applicable to all iOS devices. Including the iPod Nano.

C.

It should be pretty obvious. Thunderbolt is faster and offers more power from the host machine. This is a limiting factor for the iPad which requires an external PSU for any decent charge times.

All the OP was talking about was an iPod Dock Connector cable with Thunderbolt on one end but you’ve seem to have gone, IMO, somewhat off the deep end with some very odd claims.

You actually stated that it couldn’t be rolled into the 30-pin standard, which was the primary function you railed against. You stated that a 40-pin connector (a new connector altogether) would have to be created. Why so so many extra pins for a single functionality of an accessory device?

Answer me this: Why do you think that it’s impossible to have faster data from the 30-pin connector?


PS: The OP never claimed that this or that will be done, but stated very clear logical comments. You and a couple others said it can’t possibly be done but gave zero evidence to back up this hard and fast inside knowledge about the technicalities of the HW components that would have to be used. Two things we can know for sire: 1) Apple will increase the speed of the syncing and charging when it’s feasible. 2) The iDevices cannot be updated with a faster syncing option before this technology is added to Macs.
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post #92 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It should be pretty obvious. Thunderbolt is faster and offers more power from the host machine.

It's theoretically faster. Yes.

However, the syncing speed of the iPad gets nowhere near the theoretical limit of USB2. It's bound by other factors. So increasing the connection bandwidth would have no effect.

Apple needs to implement wireless syncing. The necessity of wired syncing needs to end altogether. The iPad is being limited as a device as long as it is required to sync. However quickly.


C.
post #93 of 103
There will be NO iPad3 in the fall folks. Get that out ya heads now. Stupid rumour for stupid people.
post #94 of 103
There is a virus going around, and its called "not taking responsibility for your actions".
I have noticed it in all walks of life, and I am trying to fight it so it does not affect my children.
From children to politicians, both genders, socio-economic groups matter not.
It is up to the individual to stop it.
The other virus making the rounds is called lying, its epidemic on blog sites.
Help fight both by educating yourselves, if you are incapable, then don't post.
If you cannot articulate yourselves in writing, don't post.
Also if you are only here to annoy, please leave.
I think that if I ask enough times, they will leave. Have my hopes.
post #95 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by woolie View Post

Apple's decision making policy has dramatically changed...

It was customer first, than cash...
Now it is cash first, than customer...

They are following in Bill Gates shoes...

There is a reason Apple has $45B in cash in the bank... They design great aluminum enclosures, but place inside their shell minimum hardware like 16GB for IPad storage so we have to pay $100 or $200 for real storage capacity... It's purely a financial decision not to put in a SD slot, not technical issue... You can buy 64GB or 128 GB Class 10 SD flash... That terrifies them... So they make sure they do not put in a SD slot, so they can inflate their hoards of cash...

So we are left with substandard inner hardware for IPad 2...

They will try to dazzle us the new Lion operating system, to make us forget what little upgrade they actually did to IPAD at the meeting next & we will get another subpar product...

Mac Air same situation, great aluminum enclosure... It is to die for, but it has the same cheap hardware treatment... Intel Core Duo 1.4 Ghz, 3M L2 Cache... released in Sept 2008... (At least this was only one I could find matching Intel's current offerings)... 2 GB RAM, again terrible choice for great for raking in the cash... And more cash for Apple...

APPLE IS ALL ABOUT CASH NOT CUSTOMERS...

Wow first post and what a brilliant piece of writing.
You must be like one of those ex-Soviet sleepers, date joined Dec, but first post in Feb 2011.
You are the perfect reason why this world is FUCKED UP.
No one takes any notice of you, I only replied as to ask you this simple question, why do you want to annoy people for ?
post #96 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Rabbit View Post

Wow first post and what a brilliant piece of writing.
You must be like one of those ex-Soviet sleepers, date joined Dec, but first post in Feb 2011.
You are the perfect reason why this world is FUCKED UP.
No one takes any notice of you, I only replied as to ask you this simple question, why do you want to annoy people for ?

Well I have been reading AppleInsider for many years... Retorts like yours, where all you can do is cuss instead of discuss is why reasonable people don't join in on the discussions...

But I would submit the following for your consideration... I have had many pc's & notebooks over the years... But due the absolute debacle of Vista, which rendered great PC's almost useless... I moved over to Apple because they had "quality" products... Well my MacBook has been in for more repairs than all my previous computers & laptops combined... Then I purchased an IPAD, Apple replaced the first two, because their hardware was flawed... Then I purchased an iPhone 4, same thing, the first two had to be replaced because the hardware was flawed... The current IPAD & iPhone 4 work terrific & I am very happy with them... But clearly Apple has serious quality issues... I would really like to buy an MBA but the inner hardware is ancient & does not work well (freezes up) based on info from those who have bought current MBA product... So back to my previous premise, Apple needs to quit stockpiling the cash and return to putting quality back up their great aluminum enclosures...
post #97 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

There will be NO iPad3 in the fall folks. Get that out ya heads now. Stupid rumour for stupid people.

You might end up being right... Who knows.
post #98 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by woolie View Post

Well I have been reading AppleInsider for many years... Retorts like yours, where all you can do is cuss instead of discuss is why reasonable people don't join in on the discussions...

But I would submit the following for your consideration... I have had many pc's & notebooks over the years... But due the absolute debacle of Vista, which rendered great PC's almost useless... I moved over to Apple because they had "quality" products... Well my MacBook has been in for more repairs than all my previous computers & laptops combined... Then I purchased an IPAD, Apple replaced the first two, because their hardware was flawed... Then I purchased an iPhone 4, same thing, the first two had to be replaced because the hardware was flawed... The current IPAD & iPhone 4 work terrific & I am very happy with them... But clearly Apple has serious quality issues... I would really like to buy an MBA but the inner hardware is ancient & does not work well (freezes up) based on info from those who have bought current MBA product... So back to my previous premise, Apple needs to quit stockpiling the cash and return to putting quality back up their great aluminum enclosures...

Gosh, what a completely anomalous string of bad luck you've had. I guess Apple's very high customer satisfaction ratings must be in spite of Apple's dreadful quality control, for some reason.
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post #99 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Later on they depreciated the FireWire 400 cable by first not including it with new iPods, then by removing the HW for allowing syncing, and finally by removing the ability to charge via this cable (which was a very handy fast charger when you plugged it into a wall socket).

PS: Id also like an explanation to your claim that " I don't know a single person that is interested in a new cable or plug. Do you you realize that people said that same thing when USB was new, when HDMI was new, and pretty much every new cable/plug tech that came before it. Just imagine if we were still connecting printers with expensive, large and slow parallel cables. Or how about BNC connectors for Token Ring. I think only IBM would be happy with that last one.

Never understood why they disabled charging over FireWire. Yes iPods get refreshed yearly, but they don't include a separate charger anymore. I like having a spare one, though with the widespread use of iPhones and iPods I can now basically charge my iPhone at any friends' house. But I keep throwing things away that still work, but just got changed.

"No1 interested in a new plug". I meant to say that every time there's a new plug or cable my girlfriend is like: "why? Look at these adapters that I lurk around the globe." Opens a drawer filled with adapters, so I gave her a Universal one. With FW plug looking like a USB I understand why she is questioning the change. Not to say that things change for the better, just not always. Yep, I welcome this TB port. Certainly hope it will be in widespread use quickly.
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post #100 of 103
As far as connectivity goes, I'd just like two simple upgrades to the dock connector. USB3 and allowing for higher amp service. For example, my motherboard can output 1.5A on its USB3 ports, but my iPhone can't actually accept/charge that fast. Frustrating.
post #101 of 103
..that I could have been wrong about Thunderbolt on the iPad.

At least if this is to be believed.




C.
post #102 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

..that I could have been wrong about Thunderbolt on the iPad.

At least if this is to be believed.




C.

Very possible, since, as previously stated, were only talking about a new copper connection to a host computer for the sake or charging and/or syncing data, if nothing else, but its hard to use anything on Amazon.com as any sort of proof.

They have a long history of posting details based on the rumour sites. Im not sure if this sort of this is from Amazon or their vendor partners, or if its accidental or on purpose to get some sort of page hit action.
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post #103 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Very possible, since, as previously stated, we’re only talking about a new copper connection to a host computer for the sake or charging and/or syncing data, if nothing else, but it’s hard to use anything on Amazon.com as any sort of proof.

Thunderbolt in an iPad seems a bit too early for me. But I have a family-sized helping of humble pie here, in case I was wrong.

C.

Edit - Humble pie is back in the freezer.
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