Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh
It actually troubles me a bit in the Apple side. I have never seen ifixit comment on build quality before, and publicizing it doesn't bode too well for Apple. People buy Apple for quality.
I completely agree. Apple's standout quality of hardware is vital to them. I do hope these things aren't typical of the new line. That said, I'm sure you'd find similar shoddiness in most electronics nowadays but people tend to judge Apple to a higher standard, understandably so, and rightly so given their premium prices.
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch "In comparison, FireWire supports 63 devices and USB supports up to 127 devices."
Yeah, but ask the folks at a tech repair shop like TekServe in NYC about that. They'll tell you that chaining even a half-dozen Firewire or USB devices can lead to large-scale data corruption. (Yes, I learned this the hard way.)
Absolutely! I would not want to try hooking up 127 USB devices to a computer. That sounds like a world of pain and it's hard to even imagine such a setup ever being needed. You'd also have to power each device as there's no way the bus power would keep all that going, whatever the devices were. I think 6 is pushing it as far as is sensible for daisy chaining so Thunderbolt won't be held back on that front IMO.
Originally Posted by digitalclips
I love how Apple always give us more at the previous price. The cost of the MBP has actually come down to absorb the cost of the Thunderbolt technology. In 2012 when the HPs and Dell's of this world play catch up with Apple yet again it will be interesting to see if, on their paper thin margins, they can do that too.
I love Apple's stuff as much as the next guy but let's not pretend they are generous in their hardware specs! Electronics components come down in price rapidly and if Apple don't lower their price accordingly, then of course they can put more into their computer if they keep the same margin.
I don't think it's any kind of criticism of HP or Dell that they have thinner margins. It's a different business model, one that gives the customer more for their money on paper. I'd rather pay more for unibody enclosures, better screens and OSX but let's not mock the competition for choosing to make less profit. That's absurd.
Apple is sitting on $50B. And they still want c. $300 pure profit for a 13" MacBook Pro from little old Joe Public. I don't think that's anything to be proud of (incidentally, the price is EXACTLY the same in £s in the UK despite their being $1.6 to the £). I love Apple's products, but their profit margins are nobody's friend. I used to defend it by saying that profit margin allowed a massive R&D budget, but you don't amass $50B by accident.
Originally Posted by al_bundy
what do HP and dell have to catch up to? thunderbolt? i bet only .01% of computer users cares about it and it will probably die along with VL Bus or go into obscurity like firewire.
i'm personally waiting for the ipad 2 to come out. the computer era of desktops and laptops is long gone. a computer is something you store your data on and do tasks like photo editing or sending the photos to be printed at wal mart. otherwise it's not used 99% of the time unlike your iphone/ipad or android phone. other than mobile professionals why anyone would spend $2000 on a laptop in 2011 is beyond me
Without wanting to be rude, this is a silly comment. Thunderbolt is supported by Apple and Intel. That alone will give it a huge impact on the market. I agree that a tiny number of users will care about it for a while, but that doesn't mean other computer manufacturers won't need to catch up. It's definitely a coup of sorts for Apple to have 12 months for exclusivity with this.
To say that the era of laptops and desktops is long gone is like saying the era of the petrol car is long gone; it's epically premature. I cannot do my job with an iPad, as much as I love it. None of my family could do theirs with an iPad. I am actually struggling to think of anyone I know who could do their job with an iPad at the time of writing. I don't see the office culture of big businesses disappearing any time soon.
Whatever future iPads bring, even when they have Core i7-level power one day, there'll still be a contemporary laptop/desktop that is twice as powerful and that will give creative professionals an edge on competition using slower hardware. I still have to wait for Aperture to process adjustments. I still have to get a coffee while I export HD videos. Tablets are a LONG way from replacing laptops. Your own personal use at home is a tiny fraction of the global use of computers.
If it's unfathomable why someone would spend $2000 on their primary workstation that they earn their living from, you must have mental tunnel vision.
Originally Posted by Cpsro
Please explain why this is likely
or why it's not more likely
due to new components and revised firmware.
I agree, this seems to be total speculation. I'd say it was far more likely that the 33% faster RAM and the faster CPU's are more likely the cause, but again, speculation. I can't see it being down to more stringent testing though, Apple seems quite proud of the honesty of its internal battery testing.
Originally Posted by macslut
This is where the whole "Apple exclusive for a year" nonsense came from. Intel worked with Apple on Thunderbolt, and even got the request to develop such a thing directly from Apple. The mini-Display port used for Thunderbolt was actually developed by Apple. So while Apple had early access to implement Thunderbolt, the parts are available to anyone.
...Yes, expect multiple Thunderbolt ports, and fairly early removal of a bunch of legacy ports. Apple will lead with this with the MacBook Air, but next year we'll see others starting to remove the legacy ports to save space and reduce cost and complexity.
Thunderbolt is kind of a big deal.
Why is it 'nonsense'? It's fact. And one Apple will be quite smug about I'd imagine. Not only is it a competitive advantage, but it brings prestige to the brand.
I don't think we'll see multiple Thunderbolt ports for a while. I think Apple plan to use Thunderbolt's speed to allow fewer connections directly to the laptop by utilising a hub of some sort. That's the Apple way of thinking. That's how they expect users to use Apple Displays and I think it'll only be more logical now with Thunderbolt on a future model of that.
Originally Posted by Bruce Young
This points to one of the things that has always seemed so bizarre to me -- the Apple penchant / insistence -- on making it hard to definitively identify Mac models.
I ask my clients what model Mac they have, most times all they can say is if its a MacBook or iMac or mini. They look at it and it only has that name. Hard to find any differentiating data.
(Look at how Apple even publishes its ow Mac specs -- 'late nnnn', 'early 'nnnn' -- to help you identify the machine.)
I have to collect all the processor/speed/memory/profiler info before I have any reasonable idea what machine it really might be.
Apple using one model number for multiple machines over 2.3 years is just dumb.
While the products are marvelous, some of Apple idiotsyncrasies --i mean idiosyncrasies-- are unfathomable.
thou shalt be no model numbers on any of my Macs
Hard to argue with that. It is very confusing and unnecessary. Apple's so proud of innovation, I'm sure they can innovate a neat nomenclature, even if it's only used as a secondary name to the MacBook Pro branding. They do it with OSX...Jaguar, Tiger, Leopard etc.
Originally Posted by malax
Have you ever bought a car? A 2011 Porsche 911 is a bit different from a 1985 Porsche 911 I suspect. I do NOT want to go back to the bad old days of Mac IIci, Mac IIsi, Mac IIfx, Performa 6120, Performa 6125, Quadra 610, Quadra 700, Quadra 660AV, Centris 610, etc., etc.
I don't think any of us want to go back to that. I find it incomprehensible how so many tech companies insist on utterly stupid nomenclatures. Bizarre combinations of letters and numbers chosen just because they sound kinda cool.
I do think Apple should name their product lines though. It's worked well for Intel. Sandy Bridge lets us know what generation of Core i Processors we're dealing with. Apple could just call this the Sandy Bridge line up or devise their own nice name for each year's revision. Then just put that name in the System Profiler so tech support can do their jobs in half the time.
"I have a 13" MacBook Pro Sandy Bridge/Dakota/Hogwarts etc." It would help.
Originally Posted by faduci
Which means that one could connect an USB controller via TB (or several, each giving you the possibility to connect to 127 USB devices). So it's more like comparing oranges to the trucks delivering the oranges.
I think that's the way Thunderbolt will go. It's a very neat way to hook up your MacBook Pro to all your devices in 3 seconds flat and it allows peripheral manufacturers to keep costs down by sticking with USB2, which is more than fast enough for the vast majority of individual peripherals' needs.