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Mac OS X Lion drops Front Row, Java runtime, Rosetta

post #1 of 268
Thread Starter 
The latest developer release of Mac OS X 10.7 Lion excludes support for Rosetta (used to run PowerPC code on Intel Macs), Front Row, and Oracle's Java runtime, although Apple includes a mechanism to automatically download an updated Java runtime for Lion.

No Front Row

Front Row, the TV-oriented media center playback system for Mac OS X, was first added to Macs in 2005, providing a simple living room-like display for albums in iPhoto, iTunes music and movies, and DVD playback.

The functionality was isolated by the original Apple TV appliance in 2007, which then modified its interface later the following year, creating a schism between Apple TV and the Mac's Front Row app.

Apple stopped bundling an IR remote with its iMacs and other models, signaling a lack of interest in Front Row, while also redesigning Apple TV to act as a streaming iOS-based device. The company also released AirPlay for wirelessly streaming iTunes content

It's therefore not entirely surprising that the Lion release lacks Front Row among its bundled apps.

No Java runtime

Also missing from Lion is a preinstalled Java runtime capable of executing "100% pure" Java apps. There are few examples of Java desktop apps in the wild, so most users won't notice. Not bundling the runtime will erase a large number of security vulnerabilities from the reported list of issues related to Mac OS X going forward however, as Java exists as a parallel platform to Apple's native Cocoa.

When users attempt to run a Java app, Lion offers to look online for a version it can install, and will download and install a slightly newer version than is currently available for Snow Leopard today (1.6.0_24-b07-329, rather than 1.6.0_22-b04-307).

Apple announced earlier that it would be working with Oracle to divest itself of maintenance of the Java platform on Macs, setting up a new OpenJDK Project for Java on Mac OS X going forward, starting with the release of Java SE 7.

Apple noted that the Java runtime may be removed from future versions of its operating system, and it appears that will be the case with Lion, albeit with a rather painless install option for users who need it.





No Rosetta

While Apple dropped support for running Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard on PowerPC Macs, 10.7 Lion will remove support for running PowerPC code on the new machines via Rosetta, a translation bridge that enabled Intel Macs to continue to run old software.

Rosetta was not installed by default in Snow Leopard, but could be installed by users who needed to run old programs that had not yet been updated to run natively on Intel Macs. In Lion, Rosetta support is gone entirely, spelling the end of the line for PowerPC as an architecture.

Apple has already restricted Mac App Store titles to Intel code, leaving PowerPC support abandoned along with Motorola 68000 code.
post #2 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

No Front Row

Front Row, the TV-oriented media center playback system for Mac OS X, was first added to Macs in 2005, providing a simple living room-like display for albums in iPhoto, iTunes music and movies, and DVD playback.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ][/url][/c]

I'll miss Front Row. I find it useful on my iMac.
post #3 of 268
I'm glad they're still making it easy for Java to run. There are several Java applications I use constantly on my Mac at work, including Oracle SQL Developer and several proprietary, internal applications.
post #4 of 268
Front Row was useful but I don't think that many people were using it. Even people buying Mac Minis for HTPC duty are probably using XMBC or Plex rather than Front Row. And with Apple TV v2 at $99, it's a pretty cheap alternative.
post #5 of 268
Front Row's been broken since iTunes 8. Good riddance.

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post #6 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcompuser View Post

I'll miss Front Row. I find it useful on my iMac.

That was you?
post #7 of 268
Rosetta huh.. Finally have to get a native OSX app to running that old trustworthy epson scanner, it seems.
post #8 of 268
Front Row was garbage and I won't miss it. The DVD artwork never worked over a shared library. And who wants to scroll through all their movies one at a time?
post #9 of 268
No Rosetta? There are still a good number of great PowerPC games I still like to play. Starcraft chief among them. With Starcraft II in the wild, I don't know how much motivation Blizzard would have to make a UB for the original Starcraft.
post #10 of 268
Dropping Rosetta makes me a little nervous. Is there currently an easy way to figure out what software I have on my Macs that needs Rosetta?
post #11 of 268
Java? Who cares.
Rosetta? A bit annoying for old 'carbon' apps, i.e. I can't play Diablo II anymore, quite a few emulators no longer work. But fair enough.
Front Row? It's a pity! Especially with the Mac Mini having HDMI now, I'd have liked to have seen an Apple TV app, maybe even for sale on the Mac App store, that gives you this functionality. Oh well.

I understand and accept Apple's reasons, on with the march of progress! *sniff*

Can't wait for the next Macbook Air with Thunderbolt and 3G radio built in!!
post #12 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Turbo View Post

Dropping Rosetta makes me a little nervous. Is there currently an easy way to figure out what software I have on my Macs that needs Rosetta?

About this mac, software, applications. Scroll the list and if it says power pc....it needs rosetta.
post #13 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

No Rosetta? There are still a good number of great PowerPC games I still like to play. Starcraft chief among them. With Starcraft II in the wild, I don't know how much motivation Blizzard would have to make a UB for the original Starcraft.

Just add an alternative boot volume with 10.6. I will as I have tons of old stuff I use now and then ... it's no biggie.
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post #14 of 268
I won't miss any of those features. I don't know of a time when Java or Rosetta was ever used since 10.5. FrontRow won't be missed either.
post #15 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In Lion, Rosetta support is gone entirely, spelling the end of the line for PowerPC as an architecture.

Uh oh, I seem to remember Quicktime 7 requesting that Rosetta be installed before running. If so and they haven't fixed Quicktime X, I'll have to hold back from upgrading. You simply can't do quick edits in FCP/iMovie and QTX has so few features and is missing scaling, audio pasting, cutting, frame numbering etc.

I wish they wouldn't force a whole system on you before you find out if an app you rely on is any good. I guess there's not much choice with it being a system-level component though.
post #16 of 268
Java is a non-issue since Cisco's team is doing it with Apple's help instead apple doing it themselves. For the user, they won't notice anything has changed.

Losing Front Row and Rosetta however are much larger issues since I do run a number of PowerPC apps and would like to use a Mac Mini with my TV. I am hoping they were just not included with this being a developer release.
post #17 of 268
Front Row has sucked for a long time. Why could iTunes play a m4v file with Subtitles just fine in full screen, but through Front Row, it would never show the movie at all. Just the audio. I loved front row until it was lousy with more advanced m4v files. Apple gave up on the program long ago. It's a surprise to finally abandon it officially now.
post #18 of 268
I think Quicken is the only PPC app I still use regularly. If only Intuit would get off their butts...
post #19 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by darwiniandude View Post

Java? Who cares.

Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I won't miss any of those features. I don't know of a time when Java or Rosetta was ever used since 10.5. FrontRow won't be missed either.

MacOS is Unix. A ton of Unix applications are developed using Java. To me, eliminating Java would be like eliminating X11 support. Thankfully Sun/Oracle will still be releasing a Mac binary of the JVM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

Rosetta huh.. Finally have to get a native OSX app to running that old trustworthy epson scanner, it seems.

I hadn't even thought about that. I've got the old Canoscan USB-powered scanner (love it); it's drivers and software are PowerPC. Looks like I may finally have to replace the hardware...

One thing that would be great is if Apple allowed a MacOS VM running under MacOS. That way we could have an older release of OSX running alongside the current release (much as I run Windows side-by-side under Parallels). That'd solve compatibility issues!
post #20 of 268
I don't have any PowerPC apps any more and never really used Front Row. However every few months I will need to run some open-source Java app. However on my Windows machine I need to install Java myself, it doesn't come preinstalled, and I get along ok.
post #21 of 268
I'm not going to miss Frontrow, it was useful before Boxee, but now that XBMC and its children (Plex, Boxee, etc) are native on Macs, people have plenty of options.

Not being able to play Fallout I and II is going to piss me off, I suppose I can just run them in windows, I can probably run them in Parallels without trouble.
post #22 of 268
is going to hurt. Even with all the new graphics apps, there is still nothing out there to replace Canvas and I still use it regularly.
post #23 of 268
Just as important '~/Library' is hidden.
post #24 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

No Rosetta? There are still a good number of great PowerPC games I still like to play. Starcraft chief among them. With Starcraft II in the wild, I don't know how much motivation Blizzard would have to make a UB for the original Starcraft.

Then don't upgrade to lion. Or boot camp and have both

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post #25 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames4242 View Post

One thing that would be great is if Apple allowed a MacOS VM running under MacOS. That way we could have an older release of OSX running alongside the current release (much as I run Windows side-by-side under Parallels). That'd solve compatibility issues!

That is a very interesting question in light of Lion. Because currently you are allowed to run OS X Server VMs on top of OS X server host (using VMware, not sure about Parallels). But with Lion, OS X Server is not a separate distro, it's a checkbox in the OS X client installer! So what form will the new license take with respect to VMs I wonder?
post #26 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

No Rosetta? There are still a good number of great PowerPC games I still like to play. Starcraft chief among them. With Starcraft II in the wild, I don't know how much motivation Blizzard would have to make a UB for the original Starcraft.

Guess you'll have to dual boot into Tiger
post #27 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

No Rosetta? There are still a good number of great PowerPC games I still like to play. Starcraft chief among them. With Starcraft II in the wild, I don't know how much motivation Blizzard would have to make a UB for the original Starcraft.

Why not ask them? Aspyr and Feral seem to be re-releasing old (but classic) games on the Mac App Store and they are showing as top-grossing.
post #28 of 268
front row sucks, but nothing on the mac in place of front row sucks as well.
post #29 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Uh oh, I seem to remember Quicktime 7 requesting that Rosetta be installed before running. If so and they haven't fixed Quicktime X, I'll have to hold back from upgrading. You simply can't do quick edits in FCP/iMovie and QTX has so few features and is missing scaling, audio pasting, cutting, frame numbering etc.

I wish they wouldn't force a whole system on you before you find out if an app you rely on is any good. I guess there's not much choice with it being a system-level component though.

You scared me there. I still use Quicktime7 for its multiple export properties. I launched Q7 and checked in Activity Monitor. It's Intel which means it'll run on Lion. No Rosetta needed.
post #30 of 268
It is good there will be an easy way to install Java as most high school programming courses are in Java. The reason - the AP Computer Science exam uses Java.
post #31 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPedro View Post

You scared me there. I still use Quicktime7 for its multiple export properties. I launched Q7 and checked in Activity Monitor. It's Intel which means it'll run on Lion. No Rosetta needed.

Nice! I don’t agree with Marvin on too many things, but the uselessness of QT7 for quick edits is certainly one of them.

I didn’t realize how few (10) apps I have that require Rosetta. More importantly, that I can delete each and every one of them… and probably should.



edit: And then there were none…. Once 1Password works in Lion I’ll likely be ready to make the jump.
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post #32 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

No Rosetta? There are still a good number of great PowerPC games I still like to play. Starcraft chief among them. With Starcraft II in the wild, I don't know how much motivation Blizzard would have to make a UB for the original Starcraft.

Mine's Age of Empires. I think I'll just use a Windows VM to play it then.
post #33 of 268
Good.

Both Front Row and Rosetta are quite unnecessary. Nice to see Apple cleaning up and moving forward.
post #34 of 268
You know what I'm really missing in Lion? Reader mode in Safari.
post #35 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipodrulz View Post

You know what I'm really missing in Lion? Reader mode in Safari.

Odd that it would be absent. I imagine it would be included in a later build.
post #36 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Uh oh, I seem to remember Quicktime 7 requesting that Rosetta be installed before running. If so and they haven't fixed Quicktime X, I'll have to hold back from upgrading. You simply can't do quick edits in FCP/iMovie and QTX has so few features and is missing scaling, audio pasting, cutting, frame numbering etc.

I wish they wouldn't force a whole system on you before you find out if an app you rely on is any good. I guess there's not much choice with it being a system-level component though.

What do you think? Seriously, do you think they're going to hobble QuickTime for 10.7?
post #37 of 268
This is good. It will force me to get off my butt and finish converting everything I've ever done in AppleWorks 6 to Excel or Pages documents.

Even though I haven't used it to create a document in some time, it will be sad to see AppleWorks go. Probably one of my most used apps if you include the jurassic period before OS X.
post #38 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPedro View Post

You scared me there. I still use Quicktime7 for its multiple export properties. I launched Q7 and checked in Activity Monitor. It's Intel which means it'll run on Lion. No Rosetta needed.

No, I know it's Intel native but when I run it for the first time, it won't start until I install Rosetta. It's because QT components can be PPC code. I have a Maya IFF one that's PPC so it may be the case that if the components are all Universal, it won't request it but if it asks by default then Apple will need to provide an update for it to run. It also means any legacy codecs that don't already have universal components won't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer

What do you think? Seriously, do you think they're going to hobble QuickTime for 10.7?

Well, they did for 10.6. IMO QTX should have never seen the light of day until it was a suitable replacement for QT7 and they've given no indication that it will be.
post #39 of 268
Dropping Rosetta is premature. Logic 8 for example needs Rosetta for the installer, even though it's a Universal Binary app. Quicken 2007 still hasn't been upgraded and my scanner software needs Rosetta.

This smells like Apple's "Vista" moment.

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post #40 of 268
Why is Apple doing this? All three are useful. At least I can still get Java. But as long as I need the Epson scanner and jGRASP (for school), I can't upgrade to Lion. I can't imagine why Apple doesn't at least offer Rosetta. Maybe they will later on. There's a couple other programs I can do without, but I mean, really!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

About this mac, software, applications. Scroll the list and if it says power pc....it needs rosetta.

I did this, and all but a few of the programs were either from Adobe (CS3 and CS5) or Office 2011. (Not the main apps, but within those folders. Ironic how the most expensive and bloated programs, even in the lastest version, are for Power PC.
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