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Mac OS X Lion drops Front Row, Java runtime, Rosetta - Page 6

post #201 of 269
3/1/11 at 9:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edd View Post

I assume that the latest OS is not always the best choice, when running a good software - I think I am on "wait"

Good software being... stuff that hasn't been updated since aught five?

And Java?

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post #202 of 269
3/1/11 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL View Post

No, Java 1.6 will be supplied by Apple, but it will likely be a download just as it currently is in the developer preview.

You are right. Java SE6 will be available from Apple for Lion. After that, Java SE7 will be available from Oracle:
Quote:
Apple also said that Java SE 6 will continue to be available from Apple for Mac OS X Snow Leopard and the upcoming release of Mac OS X Lion. Java SE 7 and future versions of Java for Mac OS X will be available from Oracle.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._mac_os_x.html
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post #203 of 269
3/3/11 at 10:22am
Well that's good that they are not banning Java from Mac. Many web applications still use java, and I still use it to play Minecraft.

Rosetta being taken out kinda sucks, but I understand where Apple is coming from. As many of you already stated, some developers haven't even bothered to update their apps yet, like quicken. I see this as Apple's way of forcing those few developers left to drop PPC and add X86 support to their apps. Though, this will hurt gamers more, since games like Star Wars Knights of the old republic, which is a fantastic game to play, isn't X86, its PPC, and it doesn't look like bioware wants to update it, specially since they are currently making a SW mmo.

Front Row being taken out I'm not shocked. I never new really anyone who used it much. It was nice to use if you were streaming a movie to a TV, or just laying in bed, but now with wireless mouses and keyboards coming stock for most Apple computers except Mac Pros, I really don't see a use for it anymore. I have a wired mechanical keyboard and a Razer Naga mouse plugged into my iMac, and my wireless keyboard and mouse on a little table by my bed for those lazy days.
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post #204 of 269
3/3/11 at 12:43pm
"I'm honestly not sure - many people who use Macs are professionals who do more with their machines than pose in Starbucks, or ridicule people on forums like this for being worried. Professionals tend to have older gear, because they actually use it, rather than just 'have' it.[/QUOTE]
"
Please explain that to me. Common sense would dictate that just the opposite is true. Its ok for Grandma to still be running Windows 98 on their 90 Mhz Pentium because all she does is send email over a dial up connection. A "Professional" though is expected to use current hardware and software if, for no other reason to interact with other Professionals and be compatible with the other tools of their trade. You may want to stay married to aging software and obsolete hardware but don't expect Apple or any other vendor to have sympathy for you
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post #205 of 269
3/3/11 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron1701 View Post

Please explain that to me. Common sense would dictate that just the opposite is true. Its ok for Grandma to still be running Windows 98 on their 90 Mhz Pentium because all she does is send email over a dial up connection. A "Professional" though is expected to use current hardware and software if, for no other reason to interact with other Professionals and be compatible with the other tools of their trade. You may want to stay married to aging software and obsolete hardware but don't expect Apple or any other vendor to have sympathy for you

Perhaps common sense does, but my experience has been different. While my laptop does spend its fair share of time in a coffee shop, I'm a professional who uses the hell out of my machine. It's not uncommon for me to have a zillion things going on simultaneously: at the moment I have a Windows XP session for a VPN connection into the office, I have a WebEx session running a videoconference, I have Adobe InDesign up, OmniFocus, Apple Mail, Safari, Chrome, LittleSnapper, Adium, and a few other tools. But I don't care if I have the latest and greatest machine - this laptop is, in fact, the first generation MacBook Pro (1.83 - entry level even) and suits me okay. I'm finally upgrading this weekend to a new model, only because I need something that will let me have more than 2gb of RAM.

At the office, I have a similar setup with a three-year old Mac Mini doing triple duty as a MacOS client workstation, Windows XP under Parallels, a few Java apps, and a Unix server. I don't care that it also is not the latest machine, but it too will probably get updated next year because its 3gb RAM limit is starting to show its limitations.

But then, just like with my cars, I tend to run my computers into they die. I'd rather save my money for traveling and family activities than on the latest and greatest hardware.
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post #206 of 269
3/3/11 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinss View Post

Well that's good that they are not banning Java from Mac

Let's not get carried away. Apple doesn't "ban" anything from the Mac. They never have and they never will.
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post #207 of 269
3/4/11 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig

Let's not get carried away. Apple doesn't "ban" anything from the Mac. THey never have and they never will."

Indeed they haven't, it was bad wording on my part. Sorry.
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post #208 of 269
3/4/11 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

Let's not get carried away. Apple doesn't "ban" anything from the Mac. They never have and they never will.

PowerPC code.

And Motorola code before that.
PhilBoogie
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post #209 of 269
3/9/11 at 3:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Just add an alternative boot volume with 10.6. I will as I have tons of old stuff I use now and then ... it's no biggie.

How do I make the alternative boot volume, and can I switch between the two volumes quick and effortlessly?

I have a small number of very useful programmes that are PowerPC.
The most prominent is Apple Works, which is a wonderfully simple though strong programme. I mostly use the spreadsheet. Excel seem way to complicated.
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post #210 of 269
3/9/11 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

PowerPC code.

And Motorola code before that.

They still didnt ban it from the Mac. They removed it from their OS and their apps as they stopped supporting it, but they havent banned it from the Mac. You are more than welcome to download those OSes and apps that require it, find or build an emulator, and then run it to your hearts desire.
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post #211 of 269
3/9/11 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

They still didnt ban it from the Mac. They removed it from their OS and their apps as they stopped supporting it, but they havent banned it from the Mac. You are more than welcome to download those OSes and apps that require it, find or build an emulator, and then run it to your hearts desire.

Does SheepShaver do Mac OS 10.x? I have a 9.2 partition running for my older games, but if it does even 10.0, I'd LOVE to have one for that, too.
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post #212 of 269
3/9/11 at 8:58am
[QUOTE=Sorensen;1824928]How do I make the alternative boot volume, and can I switch between the two volumes quick and effortlessly?[quote]

Two ways:
  1. Plug in an external drive, use Disk Utility to format it as Mac Journaled, pop your OSX disk in and tell it to install onto your external drive.
  2. Repartition your existing drive using Disk Utility, pop in your OSX disk and install onto the secondary partition. I'm not sure if Disk Utility can non-destructively repartition an existing drive, but I believe you could theoretically use Boot Camp on your internal drive to create a Windows partition (as Boot Camp I believe can non-destructively repartition a drive), then use Disk Utility to reformat the NTFS Windows partition as a HFS Mac partition.

Quote:
The most prominent is Apple Works, which is a wonderfully simple though strong programme. I mostly use the spreadsheet. Excel seem way to complicated.

You may not want to learn a new tool, but easier than dual booting into a pre-Lion partition to use a single tool, you could simply pick up a copy of iWork (or just Numbers on the App Store). I've found Numbers to be a very capable replacement for Excel, particularly for small worksheets (which I'm sure you have if you're using AppleWorks as I doubt it could handle larger worksheets either).
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post #213 of 269
3/10/11 at 5:05am
[QUOTE=djames4242;1825135][QUOTE=Sorensen;1824928]How do I make the alternative boot volume, and can I switch between the two volumes quick and effortlessly?
Quote:

Two ways:
  1. Plug in an external drive, use Disk Utility to format it as Mac Journaled, pop your OSX disk in and tell it to install onto your external drive.
  2. Repartition your existing drive using Disk Utility, pop in your OSX disk and install onto the secondary partition. I'm not sure if Disk Utility can non-destructively repartition an existing drive, but I believe you could theoretically use Boot Camp on your internal drive to create a Windows partition (as Boot Camp I believe can non-destructively repartition a drive), then use Disk Utility to reformat the NTFS Windows partition as a HFS Mac partition.

And does it work, so I can shift between OS's in a matter of seconds?

You may not want to learn a new tool, but easier than dual booting into a pre-Lion partition to use a single tool, you could simply pick up a copy of iWork (or just Numbers on the App Store). I've found Numbers to be a very capable replacement for Excel, particularly for small worksheets (which I'm sure you have if you're using AppleWorks as I doubt it could handle larger worksheets either).

I know and have iWork. It's nice for many things.
But I know the spreadsheet in Apple Works down to every single detail. That makes it be far the most useable and quick spreadsheet to use.
I think most of the newer spreadsheets like Numbers and Excel have too much fluff and the core functions are hidden away.
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post #214 of 269
3/10/11 at 7:23am
No Rosetta?

Good bye Sim City 4
The UB patch they created for it fails hardcore, and while it does run under Intel, it's so terrible that it slows down the game (12 times harder than running it in Rosetta) and causes it to break and crash constantly...

Looks like I'm not gonna upgrade for awhile. (yes, this one game will keep me from upgrading).

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post #215 of 269
3/10/11 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyy View Post

Looks like I'm not gonna upgrade for awhile. (yes, this one game will keep me from upgrading).

Sim City 4 should run under Crossover or Parallels/VMWare/VirtualBox or check out the posts by PaulTheTall, he has porting guides to run Windows games with native wrappers.

Interesting style of button they have chosen in Lion.
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post #216 of 269
3/24/11 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffylump View Post

That's seriously messed up. I just installed MS Office 2011 a couple of weeks ago (out of necessity not preference).

I deleted all my PPC legacy apps in order to get ready for Lion (hadn't used any of them for years - was sorry to say goodbye to GraphicConverter as it had been my friend many years ago).

GraphicConverter has been universal binary since version 6 and the 7.x version is now offered through the App Store as well as through it own website. So instead of upgrading to 7.x you got rid of it? (need a icon of smiley hitting head into wall)
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post #217 of 269
3/24/11 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Logic 8 Released in 2007. Logic 9 released in mid-2009 have a PPC installer?

Quicken 2007 *Has since been replaced by Quicken 2008, 2009 and 2010. The Quicken site does recommend that you use that version to track investment buys and sells, export to TurboTax, or to pay bills, but thats Inuits fault, not Apples.

Scanner The last time I needed a scanner it was connected via a parallel cable and I was testing out a v.92 modem while reducing a potential blowout before my prom date with Sally in case it went well.

I really dont see this as being a Vista moment. Id say this will be less of an issue to users than the transition of Vista to 7, but thats just from the shear number of Windows users and the lack of control of the HW in play.

Whoa, hold on there. You must be looking at the Windows versions of Quicken. Quicken 2007 is the last FULL version of Quicken. Any newer versions (at this time) are Quicken "lite" and are not useable for those of us who use the full versions.
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post #218 of 269
3/24/11 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

At first glance it looks an awful lot like Quicken Essentials - still, I might give it a try - don't really have a choice when the time comes to move to 10.7.

Yeah we have a choice. Put a partition or an external disk with 10.6 on it. If Quicken or Apple doesn't do something, we will have to.
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post #219 of 269
3/24/11 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

At first glance it looks an awful lot like Quicken Essentials - still, I might give it a try - don't really have a choice when the time comes to move to 10.7.

Yeah actually we do have a choice, put a 10.6 partition on your HD. Thing that bothers me about this whole thing, is the software makers should design their software to work on the computers. Its in THEIR best interest to make their software compatible with the latest OS. Quicken needs to be upgraded anyway. To not do so, is just plain laziness.
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post #220 of 269
5/15/11 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macosxp View Post

Why is Apple doing this? All three are useful. At least I can still get Java. But as long as I need the Epson scanner and jGRASP (for school), I can't upgrade to Lion. I can't imagine why Apple doesn't at least offer Rosetta. Maybe they will later on. There's a couple other programs I can do without, but I mean, really!



I did this, and all but a few of the programs were either from Adobe (CS3 and CS5) or Office 2011. (Not the main apps, but within those folders. Ironic how the most expensive and bloated programs, even in the lastest version, are for Power PC.

Dropping Rosetta is premature. Logic 8 for example needs Rosetta for the installer, even though it's a Universal Binary app. Quicken 2007 still hasn't been upgraded and my scanner software needs Rosetta.

It is now May 15, 2011. The previews for Developers still insists on dropping Rosetta. There are plenty of apps that need this and it makes me mad, frankly. Quicken 2007 is way better than Quicken Essentials 2011. Before, Intuit said, "No, QEM can't do this, please run Quicken 2007." Now, they say the same thing about QEM and say "2007 runs on Snow Leopard, not Lion." They talk out of two sides of their mouth. No substantial product for Mac exists to replace the impotent but better Quicken 2007 in my opinion. Then, my scanner is perfectly good but the software won't run because it has Motorola PPC code in it. Then why not force me to buy MS OFFICE 2011 because MS Word in 2008's Office won't run. I called Apple today, mind you it is May 15, 2011 today and the tech adviser said he didn't know about what would happen because there is so much still to go with Lion but he would be surprised, indeed shocked if Apple got rid of Rosetta which makes it possible to run PPC code in SL. Why would Apple cut off its software arm to spite its face?, I say. Listen, go to www.apple.com/feedback and under iMac, everybody on this forum should tell apple to KEEP ROSETTA IN LION!!!!! You do not understand the ramifications of not having Rosetta in that new operating system. Expense, new peripherals, new apps not written in Carbon. NO APPS worth replacing the better, older ones that won't run if Apple keeps up this nonsense.
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post #221 of 269
5/15/11 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximara View Post

GraphicConverter has been universal binary since version 6 and the 7.x version is now offered through the App Store as well as through it own website. So instead of upgrading to 7.x you got rid of it? (need a icon of smiley hitting head into wall)

Hadn't used it in years - was a complementary copy with my first iMac back in 2003. So it was just a piece of legacy software hiding out in my Apps folder.
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post #222 of 269
5/15/11 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by borisoff22 View Post

...under iMac...

Yes, do put it under iMac, please. It will just be filtered out as inappropriate for the feedback subject.

Quote:
everybody on this forum should tell apple to KEEP ROSETTA IN LION!

I'll tell them to take it out.

Quote:
You do not understand the ramifications of not having Rosetta in that new operating system.

Pretty darn sure we do know the 'ramifications': people don't have to worry about their applications working with OS X because there will only be one code base. Anything downloadable from the App Store (and eventually online at all) will be guaranteed to work.

Quote:
Expense, new peripherals, new apps not written in Carbon.

People needed to stop writing in Carbon at least five years ago. For frick's sake, iTunes isn't even Cocoa yet, and that had better change soon.

Quote:
NO APPS worth replacing the better, older ones that won't run if Apple keeps up this nonsense.

There's no FUD emoticon. Imagine one here.
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post #223 of 269
5/15/11 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by borisoff22 View Post

Dropping Rosetta is premature. Logic 8 for example needs Rosetta for the installer, even though it's a Universal Binary app. Quicken 2007 still hasn't been upgraded and my scanner software needs Rosetta.

Logic Pro 8 came out in 2007. That’s 4 years ago this Summer and well after the PPC-Intel transition was underway. Apple has since released Logic Pro 9 and Logic Pro 9.1 which intel-only and 64-bit.

I can understand the desire for not wanting to upgrade the tools that are working for you, but you can’t pick and choose here. You can’t expect an OS released in 2011 to support some rogue users who make up a very small percent of their user-base and who obviously aren’t in paying for timely HW upgrades. It’s been half a decade since the transition started and you had plenty of warning with Snow Leopard being Intel-only.


PS: Here is a guide on how to bypass Logic Studio requirements test during installation.
  1. On the logic installation image navigate to Install Logic Studio package, right-click and choose Show Original
  2. A new Finder window should open with LogicStudio.mpkg hi-lighted. Right-click and choose Show Package Contents
  3. Inside LogicStudio.mpkg, navigate to Contents/Resources/Requirements Checker.app, right-click it and choose Show Package Contents
  4. Inside Requirements Checker.app, navigate to Contents/Resources and open file minsys.plist for editing
  5. Replace all "<key>block</key>" with "<key>warn</key>" and save file.
Now you can install Logic Studio without having to meet the minimum system requirements. The installer will still warn you, but you will be able to proceed.
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post #224 of 269
5/16/11 at 3:00am
  • PhilBoogie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borisoff22 View Post

Dropping Rosetta is premature. Logic 8 for example needs Rosetta for the installer, even though it's a Universal Binary app. Quicken 2007 still hasn't been upgraded and my scanner software needs Rosetta.

It is now May 15, 2011. The previews for Developers still insists on dropping Rosetta. There are plenty of apps that need this and it makes me mad, frankly. Quicken 2007 is way better than Quicken Essentials 2011. Before, Intuit said, "No, QEM can't do this, please run Quicken 2007." Now, they say the same thing about QEM and say "2007 runs on Snow Leopard, not Lion." They talk out of two sides of their mouth. No substantial product for Mac exists to replace the impotent but better Quicken 2007 in my opinion. Then, my scanner is perfectly good but the software won't run because it has Motorola PPC code in it. Then why not force me to buy MS OFFICE 2011 because MS Word in 2008's Office won't run. I called Apple today, mind you it is May 15, 2011 today and the tech adviser said he didn't know about what would happen because there is so much still to go with Lion but he would be surprised, indeed shocked if Apple got rid of Rosetta which makes it possible to run PPC code in SL. Why would Apple cut off its software arm to spite its face?, I say. Listen, go to www.apple.com/feedback and under iMac, everybody on this forum should tell apple to KEEP ROSETTA IN LION!!!!! You do not understand the ramifications of not having Rosetta in that new operating system. Expense, new peripherals, new apps not written in Carbon. NO APPS worth replacing the better, older ones that won't run if Apple keeps up this nonsense.

Well, it's probably time to upgrade your hardware then. From your post I take it you are on an iMac. That one just got upgraded, so now's a good as time as any. If you're not going to upgrade you can probably use Image Capture.app instead of your scanner software. Solipsism gave a founded reason for Apple not to include Rosetta and instructions on Logic Pro. Quicken, yeah, that sucks. Then again, things change. Office, I don't know, maybe an alternative (eg OpenOffice) can suffice?

And welcome to the forum.

Cheers,
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post #225 of 269
5/23/11 at 8:20am
Here is a great article about Quicken not being able to run on Mac OS X Lion:
http://scottworldblog.wordpress.com/...apple-save-us/
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post #226 of 269
5/23/11 at 9:02am
I've been using See Finance for the past two months and just last week deleted Quicken. It imported 15 years of Quicken data without a hiccup. I am Lion-ready!
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post #227 of 269
6/8/11 at 2:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Nice! I dont agree with Marvin on too many things, but the uselessness of QT7 for quick edits is certainly one of them.

I didnt realize how few (10) apps I have that require Rosetta. More importantly, that I can delete each and every one of them and probably should.

edit: And then there were none. Once 1Password works in Lion Ill likely be ready to make the jump.

1Password defn works for me as the running app... and its defn works in FFox v3.6.17 ... FYI.

Little Snitch however is STUFFED... But Lion does have its own Application based firewall... which looks like it can do the same thing... however you have to set up the rules BEFORE you connect. Which sucks.

I still cannot believe that Lion has reversed the scroll direction for the trackpad up is now down and down is now fucking up !

g
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post #228 of 269
6/8/11 at 3:14am
anyone that has the links directly to the Java for my dead Lion... much appreciated ... saying they are someone where on an oracle site... hasn't helped.

Thanks
g
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post #229 of 269
6/8/11 at 5:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixplorer View Post

1Password defn works for me as the running app... and its defn works in FFox v3.6.17 ... FYI.

Little Snitch however is STUFFED... But Lion does have its own Application based firewall... which looks like it can do the same thing... however you have to set up the rules BEFORE you connect. Which sucks.

I still cannot believe that Lion has reversed the scroll direction for the trackpad up is now down and down is now fucking up !

g

You can reverse the scroll direction in Lion.
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post #230 of 269
6/8/11 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixplorer View Post

anyone that has the links directly to the Java for my dead Lion... much appreciated ... saying they are someone where on an oracle site... hasn't helped.

Thanks
g

I find macupdate.com is the easiest way to find stuff.
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post #231 of 269
6/8/11 at 5:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixplorer View Post

Little Snitch however is STUFFED...

Except there's a new beta that works perfectly.

Quote:
I still cannot believe that Lion has reversed the scroll direction for the trackpad up is now down and down is now fucking up !

Take a gander at System Preferences to bring scrolling back to sanity.
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post #232 of 269
6/8/11 at 5:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Take a gander at System Preferences to bring scrolling back to sanity.

Instead of switching it back immediately, try the new way. It took me about a day to get used to it.
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post #233 of 269
6/8/11 at 5:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

Instead of switching it back immediately, try the new way. It took me about a day to get used to it.

Nah. When I can touch my stuff, then I'll scroll the iPad way. Can't touch it now. Scrolling my way.
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post #234 of 269
6/8/11 at 6:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I am surprised there are so many people using PPC apps. Even if the particular app you like has no Intel version, there are many apps on the Mac App Store, maybe one of them would do as an alternative?

Easy to say, but if you have 12-15 years of family finances on Quicken, pretty tuff to do.Their latest version is not compatible with the data on their old version, and is a crippled version. Moving to Windows for those files is problematic, as the converter is not 100% accurate.

Myself, I am going to keep my snow leopard clone on an external HD partition, and use that only for my Quicken, until there is a clearer path.
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post #235 of 269
6/8/11 at 7:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

I've been using See Finance for the past two months and just last week deleted Quicken. It imported 15 years of Quicken data without a hiccup. I am Lion-ready!

I may have to end up doing that, but See doesn't support online bill pay, which is actually a problem for me. I would have to double enter everything, which is not a cool thing. I will wait to upgrade for a bit, and see if anything washes out. But so far, See seems to be the best bet.
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post #236 of 269
6/8/11 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Except there's a new beta that works perfectly.

Downloading as we speak thanks.

Take a gander at System Preferences to bring scrolling back to sanity.

Thanks for that ... couldnt see it for looking !... FYI its the top item in TrackPad Sys prefs. Stunned they even included it.

Still trying to find Java again... heeeeeelllpppp... the actual link to the file pls...
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post #237 of 269
6/8/11 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixplorer View Post

Thanks for that ... couldnt see it for looking !... FYI its the top item in TrackPad Sys prefs. Stunned they even included it.

Still trying to find Java again... heeeeeelllpppp... the actual link to the file pls...

There is no Java installed by default. Go to /Applications/Utilities/Java Preferences.app to install it.
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post #238 of 269
6/8/11 at 12:36pm
Hmmm... thanks for the App link... but have run updater before for it to only tell me i need another friggin itunes... i just want java so my life can go forward... or im looking at a format... restore of Snow. arrrggghhhh
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post #239 of 269
6/9/11 at 10:22am
That finally worked a treat... god that was annoying. Yay... Lion works... and all i can see is iCal is poked... anyone got a working iCal ?

thx
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post #240 of 269
6/9/11 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixplorer View Post

and all i can see is iCal is poked... anyone got a working iCal ?

I have no idea what "poked" is. iCal works perfectly fine for me.
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