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Mac OS X Lion drops Front Row, Java runtime, Rosetta - Page 3

post #81 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrr View Post

Yikes, no Rosetta ??!!

I have a ton of apps that require Rosetta.

I am so screwed.

If Rosetta is important to you, you're only screwed if you upgrade to Lion. If you don't then all is fine, you just won't be on the latest OS.

Sooner or later it was bound to happen, just like Apple will eventually abandon 32-bit and move totally to 64-bit
post #82 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by tru_canuk View Post

If Rosetta is important to you, you're only screwed if you upgrade to Lion. If you don't then all is fine, you just won't be on the latest OS.

Sooner or later it was bound to happen, just like Apple will eventually abandon 32-bit and move totally to 64-bit

It's fine to tell people not to upgrade, but what happens when they need a new computer?
post #83 of 268
If you are perturbed about the information in this article, don't just complain about it here let them know.

http://bugreport.apple.com
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post #84 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by darwiniandude View Post

Java? Who cares.

Lots of people. You're probably thinking of consumer applications, such as Java applets, to run a few annoying web widgets, or crappy Java mobile phone games. I agree Java is pretty pointless there and has largely been replaced by Flash, HTML5, JavaScript, iOS, etc.

The real users of Java are people like universities, banks and financial institutions, research institutes, developers, and a gazillion and one specialised vertical markets. Any kind of professional or niche application is highly likely to be written in Java.

Just because you only use your computer for surfing the net and playing games doesn't mean there aren't many, many people who rely on Java for business critical applications every single day, many of whom might not even be aware they're running a Java application.

A major market is education. Loads and loads of software that students and staff depend on (simulation, modelling, teaching, exam submission software, etc.) is written in Java. Apple's core market may be consumers rather than the enterprise, but you can be sure they don't want universities telling all their freshmen "you'll have to buy a Windows or Linux laptop, not a Mac, otherwise you won't be able to run any of the software you're going to need on your course".
post #85 of 268
If you have a computer laying around to run OS 9 apps, perhaps Lion isn't for you.

By dropping Rosetta, many of those software vendors might get off their butts and upgrade their software or drivers.

We have a small business so I understand the Microsoft Office 2004 vs. 2011 issues. I know it's a pain to upgrade all your spreadsheets to the new version. It's painful to upgrade to new software. But the gain is usually a more secure, faster, more efficient OS and down the road, even better Apps that improve our productivity.

Change can suck. But we really should try to relish it rather than resist it. There is no innovation without change.
post #86 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by tru_canuk View Post

Sooner or later it was bound to happen, just like Apple will eventually abandon 32-bit and move totally to 64-bit

I thought 32-bit and 64-bit each have their own advantages.
post #87 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcompuser View Post

I'll miss Front Row. I find it useful on my iMac.

Apple wants you to buy an Apple TV. Their corporatism is hurting their soul.
post #88 of 268
I can't believe people are hating on Front Row. To me its one of the most important features of Mac OS X. Without it i have have no reason to upgrade to Lion nor buy a Mac with it, if i can't downgrade. For me, if they axe Front Row, I axe being an Apple user after 25 years.
post #89 of 268
I never used FrontRow,
Java not installed no problem,

But w/o Rosetta I simply cannot upgrade to Lion. One Family License not sold.
post #90 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLad View Post

I can't believe people are hating on Front Row. To me its one of the most important features of Mac OS X. Without it i have have no reason to upgrade to Lion nor buy a Mac with it, if i can't downgrade. For me, if they axe Front Row, I axe being an Apple user after 25 years.

Most who dislike Front Row simply don't use it, don't know what it is or would rather run XBMC/VLC or some other media software which often runs better under Linux or Windows. Of course there is Plex which is Mac like but who knows what will happen with the LG connection it has. The Plex client still does not properly support new Minis ( and similar Mac's running the same graphics' chipset). Plex and XBMC do not support AFP. I hope Apple has something else in mind for Front Row. They should improve it, not get rid of it. It's not clear what, if any, their strategy is for the living room.

philip
post #91 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuku View Post

The funny thing is there's still PPC apps in CS5!

Rosetta is very clearly needed, very clearly. If they drop it, Lion adoption is going to slow down a lot.

Most businesses don't switch to a new OS until 10.x.5 ish in general, now they might even hold that off longer. Though most of the time we tend to find ways to let new hardware run on a older OS.

I am a fan of Bryce - http://www.daz3d.com/i/software/bryce7?_m=d

From what I can determine on their forum, Bryce won't be going Intel native on Mac in the foreseeable future (I might be wrong).

I also found these examples, the first belonging to CS5 (Intel), the second, Office 2008 (Universal). Would these cause problems if not updated?

Last Modifiedt17/11/10 7:43 PM
KindtPowerPC
64-Bit (Intel)tNo
Locationt/Applications/Adobe Illustrator CS5/Scripting.localized/Sample Scripts.localized/AppleScript.localized/Web Gallery.localized/Web Gallery.app

Versiont12.2.8
Last Modifiedt18/02/11 2:13 PM
KindtPowerPC
64-Bit (Intel)tNo
Get Info Stringt12.2.8 (101117), © 2007 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Locationt/Library/Application Support/Microsoft/Office Converter Support/Open XML for Charts.app
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post #92 of 268
Rosetta/PowerPC apps - your best bet is going to be some kind of VM. Hopefully Apple will turn a blind eye, in the same way they have to people offering emulations of older Macs.

That's still going to lose the seamless integration that Rosetta offered, but - like Classic - developers have had plenty of time to migrate now.

(For me, it means a decision as to whether to finally upgrade MS Office, which I think is the only PowerPC application that gets occasional use).

Java - I'm perfectly happy with what they're doing. For me it's going to be a lot better to have more timely updates of the server-side JDK, than the embarrassment of not being able to do any work with Java 6 because Apple's version was always 6-9 months behind - for the same of a more 'native' GUI.
post #93 of 268
I am surprised there are so many people using PPC apps. Even if the particular app you like has no Intel version, there are many apps on the Mac App Store, maybe one of them would do as an alternative?
post #94 of 268
As an Appleworks 6 user still, I'm not thrilled with Apple's decision. I've got 12 years+ of databases created/maintained w/Appleworks. I was very grateful for Rosetta for keeping me going with all the upgrades to OS X. I never found a database software I liked to switch to, so I stuck with Appleworks. I wish Apple would create a database software for iWorks.
post #95 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

I am a fan of Bryce - http://www.daz3d.com/i/software/bryce7?_m=d

From what I can determine on their forum, Bryce won't be going Intel native on Mac in the foreseeable future (I might be wrong).

I also found these examples, the first belonging to CS5 (Intel), the second, Office 2008 (Universal). Would these cause problems if not updated?

Last Modifiedt17/11/10 7:43 PM
KindtPowerPC
64-Bit (Intel)tNo
Locationt/Applications/Adobe Illustrator CS5/Scripting.localized/Sample Scripts.localized/AppleScript.localized/Web Gallery.localized/Web Gallery.app

Versiont12.2.8
Last Modifiedt18/02/11 2:13 PM
KindtPowerPC
64-Bit (Intel)tNo
Get Info Stringt12.2.8 (101117), © 2007 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Locationt/Library/Application Support/Microsoft/Office Converter Support/Open XML for Charts.app

Yep. Both definite problems. Wonder if Adobe and Microsoft may actually fix the issues when their software won't run, rather than deferring it?? They've both been ignoring the obvious Intel 64 bit migration - and it Adobe's case that is ridiculous (CS is one of the programs that would most benefit from 64-bit).

(Bryce I can somewhat sympathise with - they're not selling millions of copies of their software. On the other hand, the only people I know who use Bryce are Mac users, and anecdotally they blame Bryce, not Apple, for incompatibility. It's not an unreasonable position to expect software suppliers to support current 'hardware' - which is how most people get their OS - when they buy a new machine).
post #96 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by JulesLt View Post

Yep. Both definite problems. Wonder if Adobe and Microsoft may actually fix the issues when their software won't run, rather than deferring it?? They've both been ignoring the obvious Intel 64 bit migration - and it Adobe's case that is ridiculous (CS is one of the programs that would most benefit from 64-bit).

(Bryce I can somewhat sympathise with - they're not selling millions of copies of their software. On the other hand, the only people I know who use Bryce are Mac users, and anecdotally they blame Bryce, not Apple, for incompatibility. It's not an unreasonable position to expect software suppliers to support current 'hardware' - which is how most people get their OS - when they buy a new machine).

Of course, both the CS5 and Office 2008 core applications are 64 bit Intel (mostly?).

Bryce has no equivalent that I know of, with its range of capabilities and has a rich heritage. Something nice about the application actually, is the community that includes Mac and Windows users (up to Leopard and Win 7) talking on the one forum. (...and the creativity on display!)
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post #97 of 268
I don't have Rosetta installed on my mac and I rarely see an Application that wants me to install Rosetta. If I find such an App I have always denied the installation of Rosetta because I don't want to clutter my Mac with frameworks I don't necessarily need. The are always alternative programs and while they might not be as good as the older ones, they are maintained.
post #98 of 268
I'm still using Office 2004... yikes!

Also using CS3 but those apps are all Universal.

Baldur's Gate and Starcraft...

And i use droplets created by Photo Drop EVERY DAY. Are there resizing droplets that are Intel native? I want to drag and drop to resize photos. I don't want to open an app every time I need to do it, and I don't want to create an AppleScript, TYVM.
post #99 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I'm still using Office 2004... yikes!

Me too.

I realised that I'll have to buy a more recent version of Office.
Then I remembered that I have. But it's still in the shrink wrap.

C.
post #100 of 268
Dropping Rosetta is stupid.

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post #101 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

It's fine to tell people not to upgrade, but what happens when they need a new computer?

Do you really think that, in this era of faster and faster processors, people (apparently) changing their mobile phones every 6 months, Apple changing iPhone models each year, computer updates every year and OS updates about every 18 months, that anybody owning one of these hi-tech items seriously thinks that everything on it will keep working that way forever?

I bought my first Macintosh in 1984 and there is a clear pattern (and not just with Apple of course):

1) You hold on to what you have (if that's the way you do things) and, assuming it can be repaired should a problem arise, you stay with it, updating the OS, the RAM perhaps & other peripherals and software where possible. Eventually, there will come a point where you have no choice but to cease updating your OS, other applications and/or hardware because the new offerings are incompatible with what you are still using and you simply carry on with what you have.

OR

2) You buy a new Mac (or iDevice or whatever) that will support the new OS, apps and/or hardware. After X years, you will find yourself at point 1 above. Rinse and repeat.

Anyone who expects things to be different will be in for a rude awakening at some point down the line.

Thus it has always been and thus it will continue for quite a few years until the oil gets so expensive and much less available that we realise that we can't keep discarding (really, incredibly complex and resource intensive) pieces of kit every year or so and getting a shiny new one that we then discard 12 months later. I don't think this cycle will change until that point is reached, which is probably no more than 15 years away at most I'd reckon.

That's my take anyway. As I said in another thread: "If it works, it's obsolete"
post #102 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipodrulz View Post

You know what I'm really missing in Lion? Reader mode in Safari.

If this is true it's a major problem. I've come to rely on this feature and seriously don't know how to do on-line research without it.
post #103 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

You lost a lot of Mac credibility points with that bonehead remark. Quicken 2007 was the last Mac version before the steaming pile of crap they call Quicken Essentials. You are right, that's not Apple's fault. But Apple should have an interest in making sure their customers are taken care of. They can't seem to get the Quicken CEO, who freakin' sits on Apple's board, to get off his ass and make a decent piece of software for Macs.

But he's not Intuit's CEO anymore, 'just' Chairman of the Board (Brad Smith is CEO)

(http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/bod.html)
http://about.intuit.com/about_intuit...om/fast_facts/

IT nerdy response from me; your point is definitely taken.

edit: just read that the guy is the founder of Claris (well, sort of). Learn something everyday.
http://about.intuit.com/about_intuit...l_campbell.jsp
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post #104 of 268
I'm staying with friends here in Japan, and just last night I hooked my Mac up to their TV and used Front Row to show them a bunch of pictures, then demoed the movie trailer and other functions and they were quite impressed that all this comes with every Mac.

I've never gotten Boxee to work right. The audio slowly drifts out of sync with the video.

And I loved using an Apple Remote to surreptitiously bring up Front Row on Macs at trade shows and suddenly have them showing the owner's personal photos!
post #105 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

It's fine to tell people not to upgrade, but what happens when they need a new computer?

I suspect the install DVD with the OS from your 'old' Mac would work on a new Mac.
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post #106 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoJimu View Post

I'm staying with friends here in Japan, and just last night I hooked my Mac up to their TV and used Front Row to show them a bunch of pictures, then demoed the movie trailer and other functions and they were quite impressed that all this comes with every Mac.

I've never gotten Boxee to work right. The audio slowly drifts out of sync with the video.

And I loved using an Apple Remote to surreptitiously bring up Front Row on Macs at trade shows and suddenly have them showing the owner's personal photos!

A non-Apple solution _could_ be VLC. There's a media player for the Mac and a remote for the iDevice (http://itunes.apple.com/nl/app/vlc-r...299344206?mt=8)
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post #107 of 268
Please AppleInsider, stop using the pointless and irritating business jargon "going forward". It adds no useful meaning to the sentence. Until someone invents a time machine, all we can do is go forwards! You've used it twice in one article.
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post #108 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

I think Quicken is the only PPC app I still use regularly. If only Intuit would get off their butts...

Microsoft Query as part of MS Office 2011 for Mac is listed as a Power PC App. That's messed up.
post #109 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcompuser View Post

I'll miss Front Row. I find it useful on my iMac.

what actually is the purpose of Front Row when viewing movies?
post #110 of 268
I don't really think it's a bad thing, after all upgrading is optional not a requirement. It's Apple's way to continue their forward thinking and keeping the base code as light as possible. One of the benifits that I have enjoyed with Mac is the stablility that it offers, and this is because (in my opinion) of the fact that Apple is willing to drop support for older hardware and software.

As we have seen in other OS's legacy support can cause a multitude of problems. And I'm not just talking about Microsoft, if I could get Linus to remove the legacy support for his old Ham Radio out of the Linux Kernel I would not have to build my own Kernels (Just and example).

Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by macosxp View Post

Why is Apple doing this? All three are useful. At least I can still get Java. But as long as I need the Epson scanner and jGRASP (for school), I can't upgrade to Lion. I can't imagine why Apple doesn't at least offer Rosetta. Maybe they will later on. There's a couple other programs I can do without, but I mean, really!



I did this, and all but a few of the programs were either from Adobe (CS3 and CS5) or Office 2011. (Not the main apps, but within those folders. Ironic how the most expensive and bloated programs, even in the lastest version, are for Power PC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

Dropping Rosetta is premature. Logic 8 for example needs Rosetta for the installer, even though it's a Universal Binary app. Quicken 2007 still hasn't been upgraded and my scanner software needs Rosetta.

This smells like Apple's "Vista" moment.
post #111 of 268
I will miss FrontRow. I hope they include an updated version in the final product or upgrade iTunes to include the functionality!
post #112 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

Please AppleInsider, stop using the pointless and irritating business jargon "going forward". It adds no useful meaning to the sentence. Until someone invents a time machine, all we can do is go forwards! You've used it twice in one article.

Seconded! From Brighton ...

I've hardly seen a sentence where the removal of those two words would make any difference to its sense. Those where it might, they can be replaced with the time honoured and perfectly adequate "in future" if that needs to be emphasised. Who is it that keeps introducing stupid phrases such as this that are the linguistic equivalent of junk food? \
post #113 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by bedouin View Post

If this is true it's a major problem. I've come to rely on this feature and seriously don't know how to do on-line research without it.

Reader is still there.. Though it doesn't work on AI anymore.

It's not based on a change in word count, because even short posts on engadget show the Reader button..
post #114 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary54 View Post

is going to hurt. Even with all the new graphics apps, there is still nothing out there to replace Canvas and I still use it regularly.

For me the big issue is loss of Canvas. While I think I can find a Canvas replacement, I have 20 years of Canvas files that cannot be read with other software. A lot of work went into those files and, as with draw programs, many components can be reused.

A few solutions:
1. someone writes a rosetta replacement.
2. dual boot
3. (dread) buy the windows version of Canvas and run under windows (but I'm doubtful it will open all old files).

Best Solution: A canvas replacement that can read old canvas files.
post #115 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

Rosetta huh.. Finally have to get a native OSX app to running that old trustworthy epson scanner, it seems.

Try VueScan - unless it is a SCSI device - which is about the only thing I have run across that VueScan cannot handle.
post #116 of 268
No more Diablo II... darn :P
post #117 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

I think Quicken is the only PPC app I still use regularly. If only Intuit would get off their butts...

They have - and replaced it with Quicken Essentials - which I tried - but so far do not like the redesigned interface - or the way the data conversion decided to ignore a bunch of entries - making the converted data set unusable - and with 57 accounts in my data file - at least half of which are still active accounts - a manual conversion process is daunting.
post #118 of 268
It's funny, but ever since 10.2 (when I switched), I've been really excited about every new release of OS X - even Snow Leopard because of the huge performance gains it gave Intel machines.

For the first time I'm not excited. Not only that, but actually not sure about this release. It seems to be dumbing down the OS - I honestly don't want me computer to be like an iOS device. I like my iPad for being an iPad... and I like my Mac for being, well, a Mac.

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post #119 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

They have - and replaced it with Quicken Essentials - which I tried - but so far do not like the redesigned interface - or the way the data conversion decided to ignore a bunch of entries - making the converted data set unusable - and with 57 accounts in my data file - at least half of which are still active accounts - a manual conversion process is daunting.

Give this a try:

http://scimonocesoftware.com/seefinance/

It's 10x better than Quicken Essentials.

Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
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post #120 of 268
I have made the transition to the Intel universe while still maintaining several PowerPC laptops. The absence of Rosetta in Lion is a big problem so my personal view is, No Rosetta, No Lion for me!
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