or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple designer Jony Ive rumored to be considering move back to UK
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple designer Jony Ive rumored to be considering move back to UK - Page 4

post #121 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

the big deal is the news that Jon is even considering leaving. This does not bode well for Steve returning.

What does one thing have to do with the other? Apple has been Jobs' obsession for over 30 years. He likes Ives work, but I can't see how Ives leaving would make Steve say "Well stick a fork in me, I'm done too".
post #122 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

Everything in the natural world obeys this law
Birth
rising
shining
decay
death
Apple is beginning it decay stage

WRONG

The lifecycle of a company or project are:
Enthusiasm
Disillusionment
Panic & hysteria
Search for the guilty
Punishment of the innocent
Praise & honors for the non-participants
post #123 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

What does it say about the American educational system (even private) - when one of the most brilliant industrial designers of our time wants to leave so his kids can have a decent education?
When all the intellectuals and great minds start leaving the country... watch out.

Hmm....perhaps his desire for his children to have a British education simply reflects a preference, and not the overall failing of education everywhere in America.
post #124 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bedouin View Post

If you judge the US by its universities and major cities -- NY, DC, LA then it's not that bad. That's true of many supposedly undesirable nations. Unfortunately most people there don't live in major cities, nor do they have much of an education.

And while you can go from DC to LA and see many different landscapes in the US -- the culture doesn't significantly change. You have the same Wal-Marts, shitty townhouses, McDonalds, etc. For its size its incredibly monolithic.

80% of Americans live in urban environments. As of 2000, 27% had a bachelor's degree or higher and according to another survey I found online, as of 2010, 40.4% have an associates degree or higher, but that puts the U.S. in 6th place, behind the Russian Federation, Canada, Israel, Japan and New Zealand (but ahead of all of Europe).

I completely disagree that the culture doesn't significantly change as you move around the country. Some years back, I was an executive for a New York City-based company that acquired a New Jersey company (about 50 miles away), but we moved to the New Jersey location since we needed more space for expansion and the NJ company was already in the process of constructing a new building. Merging the cultures was almost impossible.

I agree that when you travel "main roads", everything in the U.S. looks pretty much the same, especially in suburbia: strip malls, chain stores with crappy plastic primary-colored signs, gas stations, look-alike shopping malls, big-box stores and fast food restaurants. But when you get off those main roads, there is some very beautiful country out there. I took a bunch of German executives to a co-worker's "vacation home" in western New Jersey and I remember them saying, "We didn't realize that there was a place in the U.S. that was this beautiful." (And that was New Jersey of all places!) Not too long ago I was up in Vermont and New Hampshire and was actually stunned by how beautiful so many areas were. There is wonderful architecture (still) in New York, Boston, Chicago and San Francisco. And in many cases, it's actually the smaller cities that have done less well that actually have the best architecture because their old city centers and great buildings were never torn down to make way for new development. Troy, New York, as just one example, has some absolutely incredible old homes on well preserved streets.

What I will admit the U.S. lacks (as compared say with most of Europe) is a respect for history and culture and a desire to preserve the past. Certainly, there is nowhere in the U.S. where you can walk around and feel the way you do walking around the Haussmann architecture of Paris. Or the beauty of Barcelona. Etc. But those are much older cities than U.S. cities. And Americans have more of a "if they own it, they should be allowed to do with it what they want" even if that means tearing down a hundred year old building to build another ugly Starbucks. But on the other hand, you don't have to be in a major city anymore to experience culture or great cuisine. And if you look in those catalogs of great designers, you'll find almost as many in places like Minneapolis, Seattle, Austin and people working out in the sticks as you do in the big traditional advertising, publishing and design centers.

As for Ive, IMO this would be an incredible loss for Apple, especially at a time when it's questionable whether Jobs will return in an active day-to-day role. It's not that there aren't other great designers out there, it's that this is a time when Apple needs to appear as stable as possible and ready for the smoothest possible transition should Jobs not be able to return.

I'm surprised this rumor hasn't taken its toll on the stock, but the stock is up over 5 pts as of this writing. Although the guy obviously doesn't need any more money, maybe he's jockeying for power. Or maybe he doesn't get along with Tim Cook as well as he gets along with Steve. Or maybe he's just exhausted. I don't know what part of England he's from, but regardless, Cupertino is nothing like it and I can understand that he wants to go back, especially if he wants his kids to grow up in a British culture.
post #125 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by procapital View Post

I guess your knowledge about business is so incredible! I bet that your success is amazing! after reading your incredible statement, I am sure business leaders all over the world would love to hear more from you..

George

I guffawed.
post #126 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Are those the ones that have been desinging Nokias or BlackBerries, by any chance?

You don't think Ive was the only one doing the industrial design work at Apple, do you?
post #127 of 146
Or, he could stay in Cupertino, and his kids could attend school in England online. That's probably a LOT more viable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I can say from my own experience that you can't do this remotely. As much of his work is esthetic, remote viewing just doesn't do it. You have to be there, hold it, feel it, and see it without electronic imaging in the way.

I don't know just how he does his work, but there are CAD designs, physical models, even cardboard mock-ups.

You are at a big disadvantage if all this has to be aired across the Atlantic. Being in the same room as the others in your group is about as important as the rest.

But this is just another rumor so far, though it will likely mess up the stock comeback it began late last week if people take it seriously.
post #128 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

What does it say about the American educational system (even private) - when one of the most brilliant industrial designers of our time wants to leave so his kids can have a decent education?
When all the intellectuals and great minds start leaving the country... watch out.

i don't think it is so much the 'educational system' of the usa as it is the attitude and people of the usa. the usa isn't the appealing place it once was.
post #129 of 146
Even if he has been tapped on the shoulders by Queenie, not all of his 'industrial designs' have been that good. The G4s, for example had terrible thermal design and could easily have been better. The G5 'cheezegraters' had problems of their own that made people scratch their heads.

The question I have is: is it just possible that Apple might be better off without him? Function is more to my liking than style which comes at the cost of function. Perhaps, just perhaps, it is time for a change...to get some fresh ideas.
post #130 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

Everything in the natural world obeys this law
Birth
rising
shining
decay
death
Apple is beginning it decay stage


considering the "rising" portion took a good 20 years, i dont see much to be concerned with....

i've been using Macintosh since its inception in 1984, and still find it amazing that it has taken so long for the OS to begin to "catch on" with the masses.
post #131 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by ki4gt View Post

Or, he could stay in Cupertino, and his kids could attend school in England online. That's probably a LOT more viable.

They could. But as others mentioned, they could board there. I know a number of people in the UK who do just that. It's more an upper class thing of course, but with Ives said to be worth about $130 million, it wouldn't be a problem.
post #132 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

Even if he has been tapped on the shoulders by Queenie, not all of his 'industrial designs' have been that good. The G4s, for example had terrible thermal design and could easily have been better. The G5 'cheezegraters' had problems of their own that made people scratch their heads.

The question I have is: is it just possible that Apple might be better off without him? Function is more to my liking than style which comes at the cost of function. Perhaps, just perhaps, it is time for a change...to get some fresh ideas.

Nah. And you're mixing engineering with design. Design teams don't usually have much to do with the inside of a product unless it has a major effect on the outside, or usability.

The B/W and Graphite Macs were some of the best cases ever done for anyone. The G5 and current Mac Pro cases are still great.
post #133 of 146
deleted
post #134 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Nah. And you're mixing engineering with design. Design teams don't usually have much to do with the inside of a product unless it has a major effect on the outside, or usability.

The B/W and Graphite Macs were some of the best cases ever done for anyone. The G5 and current Mac Pro cases are still great.

I don't know what engineering school you studied at, but that is not the case at all. Integrated teams are the way of anything even remotely modern. Ive plainly defined the outside of a product which constrained the engineering team to choices that were much less than optimal.
post #135 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

+1 insightful

Apple is Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs is Apple.

Anyone who perceives a diminished importance of Jobs to Apple will be in for a sad awakening in three years when the Jobs-inspired product plans are done....

If that is the case then Steve Jobs, despite his remarkable accomplishments, will have been a failure as the CEO of Apple. One of the most important responsibilities of a CEO is to provide for the continuation of a company beyond their term of office.

I believe that recent events have demonstrated that Apple is bigger than Steve Jobs, though he remains an important and valued asset to the company in addition to being its most visible spokesman.
post #136 of 146
deleted
post #137 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

I won't dispute that opinion, but I believe people will perceive things differently, remembering him as the savior for what was Apple's greatest decade.

I would not disagree with your view either. Steve accomplished a great deal in turning Apple around, even though Gil Amelio had laid the ground work for Apple to work as a business rather than a paid goof for many of the employees...for which he receives little credit.

The simple, if sad, truth is that the time comes when everyone steps aside.

Cheers
post #138 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

Unfortunately theory and practice are 2 different things. I am a Brit who has lived in the US for 15 years. You can travel and get different worldviews but in my experience, few do. People travel, meet up with distributed family, hang out with people of their own type etc.

Your flippant comment that you can go from Paris to Brussels and learn less than Philly to DC etc. is totally wrong. Firstly, Paris might be on strike (often happens) - new experience. Brussels is currently in the center of a sectarian/linguistic struggle that threatens to tear Belgium apart. I suppose you could go to the South in the US and talk about the War of Northern Aggression? I travel all over the US and unless you talk to the taxi drivers and busboys, I get pretty much the same worldview wherever I go. The cities and burbs are the burbs are the burbs and I don't get into the backcountry much. 3 different viewpoints on American history from Boston, Louisiana and San Francisco does not count as real diversity.

Sounds like we have only one consistent fact in this discussion. Non Americans think that America doesn't provide a good diverse life experience. Americans think that it does.

If the circumstances of one's birth predict with nearly 100% certainty how one feels about a question, is there really any point in pretending that it's an objective debate?

Oh, and if you think American's aren't pansy enough to strike, you haven't been to America. And if you think we agree on language issues, well then you've clearly not been in America long.
post #139 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

Ive is an ex-pat and has kids. It's completely reasonable that he wants his children to grow up in his/their native culture rather than anywhere else. He's British. He wants his children to be British - and not some half USA/Brit hybrid. Take them home and let them eat bangers and mash, play cricket, and learn to speak proper English.

I am not sure what part of England Ive and his wife are from, but if it is Somerset, then his kids would be close to their extended family. At any rate, being in England would allow them the opportunity to connect with family more frequently.

My mom is one of eleven kids and the only one who moved from Wisconsin (except a brother who worked abroad for the US government). My parents moved to California and I would typically see my aunts, uncles and cousins for a few weeks each year. I just had some family visit me who I had not seen for a number of years and it is surprising how disconnected I feel from the rest of my family even though we stay in touch.

On the other hand, I'll take a California winter over a Wisconsin winter any day.
post #140 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quillz View Post

I'm sure you're aware the power of editing, right? What do you think Leno's producers are going to do... Show a segment where 10 out of 10 people answer a question correctly, or 0 out of 10 people answer a question wrongly for humorous effect?

And I'm an American who is well aware of where Yemen is.

Of course they are edited. But really, we have people who don't know who was the first president and could not even answer leading questions that contained part of the answer. To me, it's pretty saddening.

And I am happy to hear that you know where Yemen is but it makes me curious about your age. I'm 57 and we learned geography. So many younger people have no clue about other countries. This may actually be improving due to the internet - people meet people from other places and may actually look at a map or look up other information.
post #141 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

Of course they are edited. But really, we have people who don't know who was the first president and could not even answer leading questions that contained part of the answer. To me, it's pretty saddening.

Of course it's sad. But if you think being ignorant is caused by being American, you're sorely mistaken. I would think in your 5 decades you would have seen that. Every group of people will have its share of addicted, lazy, drop out losers. Just because you've only seen Leno interview Americans doesn't mean the same effect wouldn't occur elsewhere. It would.

Ever seen who wants to be a millionaire or are you smarter than a 5th grader? Hundreds of self-selected people who want to get rich by answering trivia. They ask questions EVERYONE should know. But I bet even you, who is deeply saddened by the idiocy of what you see on TV (catch the irony in that?) wouldn't win the million, or answer all the elementary school level questions correctly. Oh, and I'm sure you know these shows got their start in England. Turns out even Europeans suffer from being human and forgetting the things they learned 30 years earlier. Weird, huh?
post #142 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

Everything in the natural world obeys this law
Birth
rising
shining
decay
death
Apple is beginning it decay stage

Only 15 years after the fact chance to jump on that bandwagon! Way to go!

Quote:

From Wired.com:

The Goose is Cooked

"Apple as we know it is cooked. It’s so classic. It’s so sad." — Stan Dolberg of Forrester Research, quoted by the New York Times in 1996. See also Fortune’s "By the time you read this story, the quirky cult company…will end its wild ride as an independent enterprise," from the same year. Time: "Certainly No Future."

Microsoft’s Nathan Myhrvold couldn’t even predict the present: "Apple is already dead," he said after Jobs’ return.

AppleTV’s Features and Impact

"Apple’s iTV will include features beyond streaming content and could have an impact on video similar to what the iPod has done for music." —
Andy Neff of Bear Stearns packs several failed prognostications into one sentence.

Jobs, Shjobs!

"The idea that they’re going to go back to the past to hit a big home run .
. . is delusional" — Dave Winer, quoted by the Financial Times in 1997.

Self-Mutilation or Sale Is the Only Way Forward

"[Apple] seems to have two options. The first is to break itself up, selling the hardware side. The second is to sell the company outright." — The Economist, Feb. 1995


Shut Down The Primary Source Of Revenue

"Admit it. You’re out of the hardware game," — Us, in 1997.

Sidenote: Evolution/change/passing of generations never has equated to *death* That's different. No one bothered to mention that obscure distinction?
post #143 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

If the guy wants to leave, then he's going to leave. He's already made a lot of money, I doubt anything can stop him if that's what he's decided upon.

Imagine the horror of him ending up working for someone else... like Adrian Newey moved from McLaren to Red Bull - after he announced he is tired of F1 and would like to design racing yachts.

I'm sure HP, Dell, Toshiba... would pay him big money AND be much more flexible regarding his location; some of them might agree for him to work from home and spend only minimum time at company's R&D department, much as it is required to test prototypes.
post #144 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDIOWarrior View Post

Maybe he is out of ideas. So much perfection can only be obtained once.

Or maybe Apple doesn't want to change things too much, and he would like to design new laptop/tablet/... from scratch instead of fine-tuning current design?
post #145 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

Interesting thread. Lot's of navel gazing, introspection, and life advice. I feel like we should all be sitting in a pub sharing a pint.

My $0.02.
Ive is an ex-pat and has kids. It's completely reasonable that he wants his children to grow up in his/their native culture rather than anywhere else. He's British. He wants his children to be British - and not some half USA/Brit hybrid. Take them home and let them eat bangers and mash, play cricket, and learn to speak proper English.

He's proven to be a successful designer and has made a big pile of money for his employer and himself. Good on him. Now take that pile of money and raise your kids how you want, where you want. Apple is just a company, and they just make things. They'll find someone else to make pretty things for them; you'll never have another chance to raise your children.

And Jony's close friendship with Steve could be a catalyst. Maybe he's seen Steve spend monster hours pouring his heart and soul into Apple, Pixar, Disney, etc. Who knows what kind of family life Steve has? Maybe Jony would like a little more family time and a little less company time.

The illusion that you are irreplaceable is the stuff of dictators and tyrants - see Mubarak, Gaddafi, et al.

- Jasen.

If people would stop thinking of their own self interest in Apple as a company. He is a man with a life and family like anyone else.
post #146 of 146
.....
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple designer Jony Ive rumored to be considering move back to UK