Apple designer Jony Ive rumored to be considering move back to UK - Page 2

Or he has run out of things to copy from Dieter Rams.

I don't get the reference to age in the last sentence. Steve Jobs turned 56 last Thursday, but what has this to do with Ive?

Unlike many other types of collaboration (even design-related), industrial design requires the ability to lay your hands on the item being designed to gauge all the subtleties and nuances of the design. Sure this can be done by having Ive at the Apple campus some number of days each month but it would slow down the design process. It's not hard to imagine that Ive's team gets something just so and Jobs wanders into the design area and says "this doesn't feel right". Imagine trying to explain "this" over some wires as opposed to in person.

But you are correct that it seems the most logical outcome is to try to find a solution which keeps Ive on-board since he is "too valuable to us". The other thing which comes into play is how much of a "family man" is Ive. Could he deal with being away from his kids a couple of weeks each month?

What he said.

Just wait until they get a new designer who cribs from old B&O industrial design. It'll be a disaster.

There are a few untapped Braun products, yet, in Ives favour. Perhaps he actually can 'phone it in'.

Could he design a product in some sort of 3D software and then securely email the file, and someone prints it out on one of those fancy 3D printers? Then if really needed they just fly him over for a few weeks.

Or they could just hire the Dyson guy.

That sounds like the wisdom of Chance 'Chauncy' Gardener in Being There.

I dont think that one person leaving would be the start of the decay of Apple. Even if it is Jony Ive. Plus, this is all just speculation, which might not even be true.

Poor Apple! Two indispensible people on the verge of leaving. Whatever will they do?

How about the same thing they've been doing since the beginning; valuing quality and innovation, listening to their customer, moving fearlessly into the future.

If Mr. Ives does in fact leave Apple, I for one will remain eternally grateful for what he has done for Apple. The same can be said for Mr. Jobs - in spades! But their loss, though undesireable, won't affect my belief in the brightness of Apple's future. Apple, for those who still haven't figured it out, is bigger than the sum of its parts, even parts like Steve Jobs and Jon Ives. Some of us have been around long enough to know that.

Companies driven to great heights by great visionaries - Sam Walton, Thomas Edison, Walt Disney, Henry Ford, etc., have this in common: They lose their way and falter after their founder's passing. Sad but true.

we should be more worried about what is becoming of us. Apple Insider is largely a rumor site that jumps to conclusion based from the skimpiest of rumors.

And, fools that we are then make the rumor and the speculation the foundation of our own beliefs. And, go wild with out own predictions.

What does that tell of what we have become? Whatever happened to:

I think, therefore I am?

CGC

It only says what we all already know. You can't hire the dumbest of our peers, pay them twice what they're worth, handcuff the best ones to prevent them from shining, and expect them to teach our children well.

I would expect that that vast majority of people in the uk have been to another country. Our countries are a lot smaller, of course. I found one figure in a quick google that says that 90% of British citizens have a passport (compared to 25% of US citizens).

Of course everyone can be and is myopic - thats part of life, you can't know everything, but by not traveling and by not caring about the world outside your country, you're only going to be more myopic...

Funny, I thought all those companies still existed, and are doing quite well....

The faulty logic here, consistently applied by non-Americans, is that there is something somehow special and different about traveling 200 miles if it crosses an imaginary boundary into another country. If I travel 200 miles from DC, I can end up in Philadelphia, the wilds of West Virginia, the mean streets of Baltimore, charming Rocky Mount North Carolina, and about 100 other places that are more different from DC than Paris is different from Brussels. Yet because Americans can travel so far and see such varied experiences without a passport, snooty Euros call them myopic. Quite sad. Cultural superiority complex.

Put another way - assuming that your 90% to 25% figure is true. Tell me this - what percentage of UK citizens live within 100 miles (or, say, a 2 hour train ride) of another country. And what percentage of Americans? Then ask yourself if there is another reason for so many people having passports other than how "worldly" one group of people is vs the other.

Very good points.

Apple didn't get here by having a board that is that stupid. That said, if he wants to leave, there's not much anyone can do to stop him.

But let's keep in mind that Apple has, what, 40,000 employees? There's a lot of great talent there. I am not worried in the least, even if this rumor is true.

I'm British, I also live in Somerset, I doubt he would be bringing his kids back for a 'better' education (thats not to say there are not great schools in the area). More than likely her just wants his kids to grow up surrounded by west country culture, which can't be replicated anywhere.
Somerset also home to the UK's 'think different' capital, Glastonbury. A town made up of 10% normal people, the other 90% are witches and other extreme extroverts, cults, born again king arthur's, and much other oddness. And of course home to one of the worlds largest and finest music festivals.
I have travelled the planet, and prefer to spend my adult life in the USA when I can, but would probably raise my kids in somerset when the time comes.

Nonsense. Anecdote is not empirical evidence. Moreover, every one of the companies you mention went through great patches of growth and value-creation well after their founders left.

Another factor to keep in mind: All the ones you mention are very large companies, and just like the law of gravity, growth rates revert to the mean. The larger you get, the quicker it reverts.

What you stated would apply more to Steve Jobs. If indeed Apple declines simply because of Ive leaving***, then heart and soul of Apple would not be Steve Jobs.

Also, it is not so much the passing of the founder that determines the success and failure of the company -- but the solidity of the foundation of that vision and for the visionary to remain one.

Good examples that did not last long are tech companies like Yahoo, AOL, etc., once considered the giants in their field, but declined in just a few decades.

CGC



***and that is just a rumor, as much like Tim Cook was rumored to be leaving Apple also reported by Apple Insider and other rumor sites)

Interesting... Only Apple is actually shining and is not in its death stage.

It's true that stereotypes exist just about everywhere but Americans, due a great deal to geography, have simply not travelled abroad much. They have not had the opportunity to meet people substantially different from themselves both culturally and in terms of their history and language. IMO, these makes it very difficult for them to understand a lot of what is happening in other parts of the world and their typical assumption is that most people should aspire to be like Americans since we have enjoyed such success.

If there is any truth to this, it would be great in-house experience to let him work from England and improve collaboration features in OS X. iChat and face time could use improvement in these areas. With many more (fully or partially) home-based employees and remote meetings taking place, we could use something better. Among professionals this is becoming fairly common as companies try to retain employees by improving quality of life for them. Making this work is up Apple's alley. They should encourage more of this.

I'd love to see more iChat integration features for third party apps, support for larger groups of people, and a way to let others know you have something to say so everyone doesn't try to talk at the same time. There are many simple things that Apple just is not thinking about because they have centralized employees and they don't interact that much with partner companies. Improving support for iChat theatre would be great. For example, iOS simulator should support iChat theater.

So, a Brit who travels to France understands what's happening in Egypt better than a Californian who travels to Texas?

I also disagree that you cannot travel (EASILY) in the USA without meeting people with substantially different histories, language and culture. Ignoring the fact that 3+ generation Americans who live in Louisiana are hugely different in all of those ways from someone from Boston, America is also full of large communities of 1st and 2nd generation immigrants from other places.

It's not about world view. The US has one of the worst educational systems in the world, especially for early education. This is a known fact and comes out any time anyone makes an objective study of educational systems and their relative merits and successes. It's too bad for Americans that this is so, but it is a fact.

Personally, I think this "news" has more to do with the fact that it will send the stock *down* just one week before it's almost certainly going to *rise* when the iPad 2 event happens. He bought the house ages ago. A leak like this, at this particular time smells greatly of stock manipulation to me.

It's so easy to see the people that we look up to and do these things we think as awesome as just being that. It's easy to see Steve Jobs as the visionary from Apple and Johantan Ive's as the amazing designer that we forget they are human beings too.

I've meet/known and seen a few people I look up to this way and was amazed to see them doing very average things, having very average human emotions etc etc.

Ive is not just the guy that makes awesome designs for the latest iPod for iMac, that's just his day job, he is a human being and I guess his desires and wants as a real person will be number 1.

Things like this are going to happen and sometimes it sucks for us who enjoy the output of these "genius" people. But just imagine if people only knew you and thought of you for what you do and that's all that mattered? Crazy....

That being said, without Jobs and Ive I think Apple might be in for a bit of a wobbly time, certainly a very large period of readjustment at a very critical stage for the company as a whole.

Sure there are some 40,000 people working at Apple and they are awesome people, but whatcha going to do? Give a box of crayons to the guy working at the Apple store and ask him to draw you a new iPhone!?

Ive has the job and title that he has, as does Steve, because he is the best person inside the company to do that. If someone else was better for that role, they'd be there. There is a lot of awesome people at Apple that make all this happen (i.e Tim Cook) but these are the people directing it all. Without these people you have a bunch of intelligent people making crap happen because nobody is there to bring the awesome.

On a side note, bringing Kids up in the culture of the UK is crap, there is no culture here. To many American's watching too much TV that shows a dreamlike culture that doesn't exist. Granted we may not quite be as crappy as the US, but we still suck pretty much in this regard,.

Although ultimately we are all talking a bunch of crap about stuff we know nothing about. Good times!

I am a second-generation American - all my grandparents were born in Italy. And I am not suggesting that I would prefer to live in any other country - my life is quite comfortable here. But I have travelled quite extensively (especially in Europe) and I see that people, by and large, have a different perspective than most Americans do. Some of this is explained by the close proximity of different countries who fought wars and learned to live peaceably with their neighbors. It's also important that these countries built and lost their empires while the US still engages aggressively in "nation building". Most Europeans view the world differently than most Americans.

Yes there are cultural differences within the US. I grew up in California and attended an eastern university. Things were very different but I still shared a common language, history and culture with most the other students. The differences are a bit more pronounced when going from London to Paris, Paris to Amsterdam or Amsterdam to Warsaw. People are used to dealing with people vastly different than themselves.

I am not suggesting that Americans are horrible people; they are, in fact, quite generous. But ask an American where Yemen is and why it might be important and you are likely to get a blank look. For an uncomfortable evaluation of our education system, you need only turn on the Tonight Show when Leno asks people what should be simple questions that completely counfound people.

I have been to the UK for extended periods three times in different years. Among the international cities where I have been, London would be one of the cities where I can feel at home.

As to visa, that is one good criteria, but it depends where they are going. If I hazard to guess, it is mostly in nearby countries, perhaps the more affluent and adventurous come to the US and all other countries.

One built in advantage of the US, compared to some of the countries I have been to in Europe, the US is more polyethnic, especially in major metropolitan areas everywhere. Californaia, and a few of the states also are becoming more polyethnic. College towns are similarly becoming more polyethnic. And, if you are a student, even more so in many of the large universities.

Boston is a very good example. The beauty is that you can interact with many cultures on a daily basis, at work, during meals and recreations, conferences, etc. With an open mind, one can really learn about peoples and their cultures from such extensive and constant interactions***. [Better than the glimpse or insight you get from a week or so of travel.]

The US is almost as large as continental Europe. Because of its diversity, going from one region to another exposes you to very diverse cultures, literary. This is mainly because the US remains a country of immigrants. Even regions that are mostly White have their own distinct flavors, and that is partly because of the migrants have not been dispersed randomly.


Did you get a chance to travel and live for extended periods to different parts of the US? I have been to California, numerous times in California, over the years. But, last year, I had a chance to go there and live (interacted) with Californians and I gained quite more about life in California compared to what I learned during my short visits there. That is also true with my visits to New York. a city that we visited quite enough when we were students. A German friend of mine (who loves New York) invited me to stay with him for an extended weekend; and I got a glimpse of New York that was quite different from all my other short visits. I feel more at home in Boston though, compared to other cities I have been, because it may be a city, but it still has that small town feeling with many multi-ethnic enclaves (not only of other nationalities but also White Americans).

The points presented above apply. This is coming from someone like myself who came from another country. I have been well read when I was at home, and I thought I knew a lot about the world, or even the US with all the good and bad. But, coming here first as student, it was quite an awakening.

On the whole, what I found is that most of the Americans I have interacted are decent, whatever walk of life, they came from. I have even interacted with what are called "Rednecks" and some really "conservative" people. If you look beyond what many would disparage as their stereotypical characterization, on the whole they have their own good side -- especially once you get to know them, and they get to interact with you.

My main concern in the polarization and intense extremism, especially in politics and morality; but I am not sure if such situations do not exists in other countries. It may be more intense in the US because of the diversities in cultures.

CGC

***Of course, interactions in university and research/tech towns would be biased by the fact that many foreigners able to go to elite schools the US may not be representative (the average) of their own cultures -- they are either the "exceptional" intellectually or econimically. At the same time, in places like Boston, one can actually meet peoples from all over the world coming from different walks of life.

That would be Steve...read the article again...

Yes, our public education system sucks. I was fortunate enough to have a private education. I also had the benefit of traveling abroad from the time I was young - it does make a difference. As far as world views go, it's scary when people who barely know the geography and history of an area are asked to come up with a solution for its problems.

I do agree that this should have been a great week for Apple stock after its recent retreat and with the iPad2 announcement. But I am on record mentioning my concern about Ive leaving Apple for a while now and do consider this a serious challenge for Apple especially if Jobs is unable to return to work. As long as one of them is at Apple, I feel comfortable that there is a strong product vision. If both were to leave at the same time, I am nervous about where that product vision will develop.

By that you mean an actual education not just teaching kids that everyone is a winner.

Simple. Set up a nice little design studio in his home town, and telecommute. Then, make a trip back quarterly, and all is happy.

If a man gotta go he gotta go. I'm sure there are more talented designers in the US willing to live in Cupertino or its surroundings and if he leaves ample time to find a replacement I don't think there is a problem. Apple is not a company afraid of change.

I am not saying Ive is unimportant, i'm saying that if he needs to go, I'm sure there is someone else apple can tap for the job.

Oh please - give us a break! Another clueless poster...

Its done all the time!

Hopefully someplace better than the Sculley/Spindler/Amelio shift.


For MS there needs to be a "coasting" stage, where you make your money off legacy. Otherwise they'd be well into decay.

You wish. Mr. Ive has a massive team of quality designers making him look good for the past decade. He got all the recognition for the iMac when it first came out and ever since everyone keeps lavishing him praise for designing Apple's line ups. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Contrary to the belief of Steve Jobs, you can't buy the love... or loyalty of company executives by showering them with lavish stock option bonuses. All that you achieve with such a lame strategy is to set the stage for a bigger disappointment later on when the executive, like Jonathan Ive, is not called upon for a higher function up the corporate ladder.

For what reason, he says, would Apple have given me such an unheard of stock option bonus if the Apple Board of directors didn't have big plans for me? And when those big plans meet with reality, the executive is so disappointed that he loses all motivation to carry on and continue his day to day job at Apple corporate headquarters. All of a sudden, the stockholders, Mac users and Mac developpers mean nothing to Jonathan Ive, just as his inspired designs for Apple.

Jonathan Ive never had any loyalty for Apple. And now, Jony has a bruised ego!

John? John C. Dvorak? Is that you?

You misunderstand capitalism (and human nature). You don't try to buy loyalty. You buy performance, and Apple succeeded explosively.

Apple died in 1997. It was acquired by NeXT. Go check your history book.

The purpose of sock options are to align an individuals performance with the performance of the company.

For example, why does Steve Jobs work so hard for Apple?
His $1 salary? No.

If Steve does a good job then Apple's stock price goes up.
If Apple's stock price goes up Steve is rewarded for his performance by the increased value of his stock options.