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Apple designer Jony Ive rumored to be considering move back to UK - Page 3

post #81 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokessd View Post

I'm a US citizen and I've been spending two weeks a year in the UK for the last few years. I'd move there in a heartbeat if I could find a reasonable job there (I'm a PhD type). Given his design aesthetic, and our walmart culture here in the USA, that doesn't surprise me a bit.


Sheldon

Sounds like you're out in the burbs or Texas. No wonder you want to leave.

You're in the wrong American city...
post #82 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

The view that only Americans are myopic and every other country (e.g., European countries) have a more balanced perspective of the world is in itself as myopic a view.

Coming from another country myself and having lived in the US for quite awhile now, I understand how many Americans can be.

Majority of Americans have never been abroad and depend so much on the mass media (mainly television) in their view of the world. But, the same can be said of most other peoples of the world.

I was surprised for example, during the Flickr censorship debate, a few years back, how many internet savvy Europeans have very distored view of the United States and Americans.

CGC

Having lived on and visited a few different continents over the past 30 years, the USA is really not that bad. Really. My top pics: Sydney, San Francisco, Northern California, Melbourne, the Netherlands. The UK, I was very disappointed with. Singapore, meh.

But... These are all personal biases, experiences and reasons. I'm in Kuala Lumpur mainly because my elderly parents are here, plus some personal medical reasons. I'd bail for Australia the first chance I get if my parents could come and I was in better health.

The big part of this whole thing is not which country is better though, the big deal is the news that Jon is even considering leaving. This does not bode well for Steve returning.
post #83 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

Or he has run out of things to copy from Dieter Rams.

No kidding.

I think Ives does great work, but there are plenty of young talented new designers who are just waiting for a chance.
post #84 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

Sounds like you're out in the burbs or Texas. No wonder you want to leave.

You're in the wrong American city...

Indeed, there are at least several decent American cities that most people will find more favourable to most parts of the UK.
post #85 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

Contrary to the belief of Steve Jobs, you can't buy the love... or loyalty of company executives by showering them with lavish stock option bonuses. All that you achieve with such a lame strategy is to set the stage for a bigger disappointment later on when the executive, like Jonathan Ive, is not called upon for a higher function up the corporate ladder.

For what reason, he says, would Apple have given me such an unheard of stock option bonus if the Apple Board of directors didn't have big plans for me? And when those big plans meet with reality, the executive is so disappointed that he loses all motivation to carry on and continue his day to day job at Apple corporate headquarters. All of a sudden, the stockholders, Mac users and Mac developpers mean nothing to Jonathan Ive, just as his inspired designs for Apple.

Jonathan Ive never had any loyalty for Apple. And now, Jony has a bruised ego!



What? You're assuming Jon Ive wants more? Like being CEO? Please. He's already more or less Steve's right-hand man when it comes to products. Like I said, the big news here is that if he's considering leaving, that implies Steve may not be coming back.
post #86 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

No kidding.

I think Ives does great work, but there are plenty of young talented new designers who are just waiting for a chance.

Are those the ones that have been desinging Nokias or BlackBerries, by any chance?
post #87 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

Btw, anyone think Ive looked 56??????

Er... That's Steve, not Ive.
post #88 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by eAi View Post

I would expect that that vast majority of people in the uk have been to another country. Our countries are a lot smaller, of course. I found one figure in a quick google that says that 90% of British citizens have a passport (compared to 25% of US citizens).

Of course everyone can be and is myopic - thats part of life, you can't know everything, but by not traveling and by not caring about the world outside your country, you're only going to be more myopic...

Traveling doesn't make you any less myopic. I wouldn't be surprised if most British have traveled out of the country-straight to Disneyland.
post #89 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Her parents gave up their lives in Japan and moved halfway across the world so that their child could get the best training. Why wouldn't Ives and his wife be willing to move back to the UK, from where he came, speaking the same language, and pretty much the same culture, to give his kids what he thinks is an immersion in their own culture?

It's certainly possible.

Only in this case I'm hard pressed to see what's so fantastic about the UK that you would pack up everything for.
post #90 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

Everything in the natural world obeys this law
Birth
rising
shining
decay
death
Apple is beginning it decay stage

You left out "beleaguered".
post #91 of 146
I know I've been pretty disparaging of the UK, and I apologise if I offend anyone.

One thought I had to put down before leaving for work is this. I just hope Jon isn't moving back to relive the memories and experiences that he had. Because countries change rapidly. The UK or any country continually evolves. Many adults return after a long time away to their home countries only to find that many things are very different, and they regret having done it. I hope this doesn't happen with Jon and his family.
post #92 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Only in this case I'm hard pressed to see what's so fantastic about the UK that you would pack up everything for.

You mean, he would pack up for. I've been to the UK a number of times over the years, four times the past two years, and I like much of it, quaint as it is. I really like London, though it has surprisingly few bookstores or magazine shops.

But my experiences abroad in different countries is that they're no more understanding of the world around them than is the average American.

As for Ives, he comes from there, and may have somewhat of a homesick feeling that he wants to have his kids fulfill by growing up there. It happens to expatriates all the time. People here are reading much too much into this. And we don't know if it's true!
post #93 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Traveling doesn't make you any less myopic. I wouldn't be surprised if most British have traveled out of the country-straight to Disneyland.

Traveling has a better chance than not traveling. Saying otherwise is... Myopic?
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post #94 of 146
If this is true then I hope he has trained-up people to replace him at Apple. I'm sure there are many talented designers at Apple that Mr. Ives takes credit for their work. Isn't that how it always works.
post #95 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I can say from my own experience that you can't do this remotely. As much of his work is esthetic, remote viewing just doesn't do it. You have to be there, hold it, feel it, and see it without electronic imaging in the way.

I don't know just how he does his work, but there are CAD designs, physical models, even cardboard mock-ups.

You are at a big disadvantage if all this has to be aired across the Atlantic. Being in the same room as the others in your group is about as important as the rest.

But this is just another rumor so far, though it will likely mess up the stock comeback it began late last week if people take it seriously.

Perhaps conceptional design, maybe. While having everyone in a room is the ideal, and hands on time is important, it's not world we live in. At least not for most global firms. Think cars, airplanes etc. People from around the globe participate, design/do different things and bring them together via computers.
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post #96 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

What does it say about the American educational system (even private) - when one of the most brilliant industrial designers of our time wants to leave so his kids can have a decent education?
When all the intellectuals and great minds start leaving the country... watch out.

Those comments dont jibe. If he is brilliant then youd expect him to seek out the best education for his children.

Now if you said that Karl Pilkington wouldnt raise his children in the US because the education system or that Britney Spears wanted to leave the US to raise her children because of the education system then it would say something, but because a brilliant engineer from the UK may have stated this expected. It would have been more of a shocker if Ives didnt feel this way.
post #97 of 146
If you judge the US by its universities and major cities -- NY, DC, LA then it's not that bad. That's true of many supposedly undesirable nations. Unfortunately most people there don't live in major cities, nor do they have much of an education.

And while you can go from DC to LA and see many different landscapes in the US -- the culture doesn't significantly change. You have the same Wal-Marts, shitty townhouses, McDonalds, etc. For its size its incredibly monolithic.
post #98 of 146
I don’t know what Ives is talking about, he can’t even spell John correctly.
post #99 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

I am a second-generation American - all my grandparents were born in Italy. And I am not suggesting that I would prefer to live in any other country - my life is quite comfortable here. But I have travelled quite extensively (especially in Europe) and I see that people, by and large, have a different perspective than most Americans do. Some of this is explained by the close proximity of different countries who fought wars and learned to live peaceably with their neighbors. It's also important that these countries built and lost their empires while the US still engages aggressively in "nation building". Most Europeans view the world differently than most Americans.

Yes there are cultural differences within the US. I grew up in California and attended an eastern university. Things were very different but I still shared a common language, history and culture with most the other students. The differences are a bit more pronounced when going from London to Paris, Paris to Amsterdam or Amsterdam to Warsaw. People are used to dealing with people vastly different than themselves.

I am not suggesting that Americans are horrible people; they are, in fact, quite generous. But ask an American where Yemen is and why it might be important and you are likely to get a blank look. For an uncomfortable evaluation of our education system, you need only turn on the Tonight Show when Leno asks people what should be simple questions that completely counfound people.

I'm sure you're aware the power of editing, right? What do you think Leno's producers are going to do... Show a segment where 10 out of 10 people answer a question correctly, or 0 out of 10 people answer a question wrongly for humorous effect?

And I'm an American who is well aware of where Yemen is.
post #100 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Traveling has a better chance than not traveling. Saying otherwise is... Myopic?

Not a good try. I've traveled enough. Are you the great world traveler then? Somehow, I doubt it.
post #101 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Perhaps conceptional design, maybe. While having everyone in a room is the ideal, and hands on time is important, it's not world we live in. At least not for most global firms. Think cars, airplanes etc. People from around the globe participate, design/do different things and bring them together via computers.

Really, just how much experience do you have in this? It's easy to post about things you don't know much about. I designed a number of products for my own firm as well as for others. It's very difficult to do this without people being together for a good part of the time, looking at and handling that design from the beginning. It's one reason why so many companies are unsuccessful with their designs. Engineers are great at solving engineering problems, but rarely are they successful at design. The designer must be there from the beginning, and put his or her imprint on it right away. If you're not there, that doesn't happen, and things rapidly get away from you.

Don't be so willing to think that communications technology replaces this. Maybe someday it might, but not now.
post #102 of 146
Bit off topic but If Johnathan Ive sets up a design consultancy firm then Nintendo needs to seek his services. Has anyone seen the new NDS 3D? The product design and build is shocking! I checked out the pics on engadget last night. It looks like something that was made in the late 80's.

Hope Johnny stays at APPLE though, he is always welcome back to my home town university in Newcastle where he studied industrial design to set up shop though!
post #103 of 146
Does anyone seriously believe that steve Jobs would take a leave of absence and not guarantee the top of his team large compensation? Most likely Jobs took care to assure that his key people will be there till he returns.
post #104 of 146
I wouldn't take it as an insult to US schools that he wants to educate his kids in the UK. It's just a very different culture that's all. I have lived and worked in both countries and even though the 13 colonies were founded by England in actual fact Americans are more like Germans than Englishmen.

Physically they look more like Germans (they don't have the extremely white skin of the English) and culturally they are more serious like Germans. Anyway the point is the differences are not minor and I understand this move. Not to mention, young children speaking with that educated English accent sounds great!
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post #105 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

Everything in the natural world obeys this law
Birth
rising
shining
decay
death
Apple is beginning it decay stage

Right. Except that, once upon a time, Apple had a 20-year run that ended in 1996 with Gil Amelio in charge, the stock trading in the low teens, and the company was literally 6 months from bankruptcy. The company had already reached the death stage by then. Then Steve Jobs came back. Today the stock is worth 20 times.

Your fictional law vs. the facts... Facts win.

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post #106 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

Contrary to the belief of Steve Jobs, you can't buy the love... or loyalty of company executives by showering them with lavish stock option bonuses. All that you achieve with such a lame strategy is to set the stage for a bigger disappointment later on when the executive, like Jonathan Ive, is not called upon for a higher function up the corporate ladder.

For what reason, he says, would Apple have given me such an unheard of stock option bonus if the Apple Board of directors didn't have big plans for me? And when those big plans meet with reality, the executive is so disappointed that he loses all motivation to carry on and continue his day to day job at Apple corporate headquarters. All of a sudden, the stockholders, Mac users and Mac developpers mean nothing to Jonathan Ive, just as his inspired designs for Apple.

Jonathan Ive never had any loyalty for Apple. And now, Jony has a bruised ego!



Interesting perspective.
post #107 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The report said that Ive and his wife Heather are considering a move back to England with their twin sons for their education.

Fully understand it. I don't blame them for eventually making this choice.
Jonathan has meant so much for Apple, and is impossible to "replace".
But I'm sure Jonathan will be there remotely overseeing the transition of new staff taking his place and eventually taking Apple's design into the future.
post #108 of 146
I know why Jony's leaving:



</kidding!!!>
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post #109 of 146
Ive and Steve Jobs are close friends. If someone knows about Steve's health, it would've been Ive. Steve is the vision, Ive is the execution. You cannot simply replace Ive by someone else, no matter how bright that person is. Ive is the gatekeeper with an out of this world ability to merge all the brilliant ideas from his team into a solid product we all crave/lust after.

Without Ive we are very likely going to end up with gadgets

I am sorry for this sad post
post #110 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post

Ive and Steve Jobs are close friends. If someone knows about Steve's health, it would've been Ive. Steve is the vision, Ive is the execution. You cannot simply replace Ive by someone else, no matter how bright that person is. Ive is the gatekeeper with an out of this world ability to merge all the brilliant ideas from his team into a solid product we all crave/lust after.

Without Ive we are very likely going to end up with gadgets

I am sorry for this sad post

All I am trying to say is that Ive will never leave his best friend. Especially not with all the health issues Steve is having at the moment.

It is actually all human stuff
post #111 of 146
Nothing is static, nothing is forever. Either a company dares deal with change and view that as possibilities or it will stagnate. That's the corporate challenge. Indeed, I think Mr Ives has done marvelous stuff within Apple, but maybe there's more talent out there and within who can inspire, design and show new ways to do things?

Mr Ives - Take good care of yourself, if you want to move on, please part from Apple as friends and watch your friend prosper. Be proud of your work and move on to new great challenges. Best of luck!
post #112 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post

Ive and Steve Jobs are close friends. If someone knows about Steve's health, it would've been Ive. Steve is the vision, Ive is the execution. You cannot simply replace Ive by someone else, no matter how bright that person is. Ive is the gatekeeper with an out of this world ability to merge all the brilliant ideas from his team into a solid product we all crave/lust after.

Without Ive we are very likely going to end up with gadgets

I am sorry for this sad post

I think you're right about Steve & Jonny's relationship. I also think that Jonny's built a solid design team, such that if he leaves, he'll feel confident about promoting one of his lieutenants to fill his position. It's highly unlikely that Jonny would be replaced by someone from the outside.
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post #113 of 146
Most of the best private schools in the UK have boarding facilities for children whose parents live/work away so he wouldn't need to move back to educate his children here.
post #114 of 146
Firstly the assumption that Steve is going to die is probably wrong. He is an out patient. The board dont have a succession plan. Cook has not been appointed interim CEO, as he was last time ( when Jobs could have died in the operating theatre). Dont assume anything until he actually resigns. He is not going to be a CEO on his death bed, but I dont think he is dying, he probably has had real problems with energy and eating.

The board should lighten up. Ives could move his team, or some of it to Somerset or London. And fly to Cupertino once a month. Or for a month at the important stages every few months.

In fact Apple need to move some development out of cupertino. London is a world city, try that.
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post #115 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

So, a Brit who travels to France understands what's happening in Egypt better than a Californian who travels to Texas?

I also disagree that you cannot travel (EASILY) in the USA without meeting people with substantially different histories, language and culture. Ignoring the fact that 3+ generation Americans who live in Louisiana are hugely different in all of those ways from someone from Boston, America is also full of large communities of 1st and 2nd generation immigrants from other places.

Unfortunately theory and practice are 2 different things. I am a Brit who has lived in the US for 15 years. You can travel and get different worldviews but in my experience, few do. People travel, meet up with distributed family, hang out with people of their own type etc.

Your flippant comment that you can go from Paris to Brussels and learn less than Philly to DC etc. is totally wrong. Firstly, Paris might be on strike (often happens) - new experience. Brussels is currently in the center of a sectarian/linguistic struggle that threatens to tear Belgium apart. I suppose you could go to the South in the US and talk about the War of Northern Aggression? I travel all over the US and unless you talk to the taxi drivers and busboys, I get pretty much the same worldview wherever I go. The cities and burbs are the burbs are the burbs and I don't get into the backcountry much. 3 different viewpoints on American history from Boston, Louisiana and San Francisco does not count as real diversity.
post #116 of 146
I think Johnny Ive should not be held prisoner by Apple demanding him to stay with the company.He is a dedicated man and gifted and if he goes Apple is in trouble I think.This is his life and he has a family to think about. He deserved his wealth by what products he created for the company.
post #117 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

Contrary to the belief of Steve Jobs, you can't buy the love... or loyalty of company executives by showering them with lavish stock option bonuses. All that you achieve with such a lame strategy is to set the stage for a bigger disappointment later on when the executive, like Jonathan Ive, is not called upon for a higher function up the corporate ladder.

For what reason, he says, would Apple have given me such an unheard of stock option bonus if the Apple Board of directors didn't have big plans for me? And when those big plans meet with reality, the executive is so disappointed that he loses all motivation to carry on and continue his day to day job at Apple corporate headquarters. All of a sudden, the stockholders, Mac users and Mac developpers mean nothing to Jonathan Ive, just as his inspired designs for Apple.

Jonathan Ive never had any loyalty for Apple. And now, Jony has a bruised ego!



I've missed your terrible, misinformed comments - welcome back!
1. Jony's loyalty is not in question here - where did you see it was. If the rumor is true he is making a life choice that may be at the expense of his Apple career.
2. If you think $30M stock grant is unprecedented in Apple or elsewhere, then you are more misinformed that I thought. Most of Apple's top execs are getting massive grants due to the mind-boggling financial performance of Apple. These are "just rewards" for key people as in any successful corporation.
3. Jony is a designer - he runs all design at Apple. There is no where else for him to go. CEO - really? He is clearly behind Tim Cook in the running for that and probably wouldn't want it. Truly creative people usually make so-so leaders and terrible managers.
4. Your absurd anthropormophism of a job at the the Company into some personal debt to stockholders to users is farcical. Jony is a guy from the UK with a young family and apparently a desire to return home. Why blow it up into something it isn't. I think he's done enough for Apple for several lifetimes and has left a legacy and language of design that will continue with or without him.
post #118 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Most of the best private schools in the UK have boarding facilities for children whose parents live/work away so he wouldn't need to move back to educate his children here.

He only has to move back if he doesn't hate his kids. Or did you board at private school and turned out great?
Boarding school... really?
post #119 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

What does it say about the American educational system (even private) - when one of the most brilliant industrial designers of our time wants to leave so his kids can have a decent education?
When all the intellectuals and great minds start leaving the country... watch out.

The UK has some exceptional private schools for the wealthy, but for the vast majority of the population here schools are dreadful and getting worse rapidly. The UK is way down the world league tables in most, perhaps all areas of education.

Things will get a lot worse soon too as the bankrupt UK government is now allowing anyone with money to run schools, which means religious crazies of every flavour. It's not going to end well.
post #120 of 146
Interesting thread. Lot's of navel gazing, introspection, and life advice. I feel like we should all be sitting in a pub sharing a pint.

My $0.02.
Ive is an ex-pat and has kids. It's completely reasonable that he wants his children to grow up in his/their native culture rather than anywhere else. He's British. He wants his children to be British - and not some half USA/Brit hybrid. Take them home and let them eat bangers and mash, play cricket, and learn to speak proper English.

He's proven to be a successful designer and has made a big pile of money for his employer and himself. Good on him. Now take that pile of money and raise your kids how you want, where you want. Apple is just a company, and they just make things. They'll find someone else to make pretty things for them; you'll never have another chance to raise your children.

And Jony's close friendship with Steve could be a catalyst. Maybe he's seen Steve spend monster hours pouring his heart and soul into Apple, Pixar, Disney, etc. Who knows what kind of family life Steve has? Maybe Jony would like a little more family time and a little less company time.

The illusion that you are irreplaceable is the stuff of dictators and tyrants - see Mubarak, Gaddafi, et al.

- Jasen.
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