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T-Mobile pans lack of 4G in Apple iPhone; more evidence of Android apps for RIM PlayBook

post #1 of 54
Thread Starter 
U.S. carrier T-Mobile has criticized the iPhone for not including a 4G radio, even though its own network is not even true "4G." Also, new evidence supports rumors that Research in Motion's iPad competing PlayBook tablet will run Android applications, despite not running Android.

T-Mobile attacks iPhone 4 as 'a 3G phone'

"True story," a new advertisement from T-Mobile reads. "Despite the '4,' both the Verizon and AT&T iPhones run on 3G networks."

The sales pitch and accompanying graphics were noted Monday by Engadget. It displays the AT&T and Verizon networks as slower turtles, while T-Mobile's 3G network is represented by a rabbit.

T-Mobile's numbers come from a third-party speed comparison of networks in New York City and Atlanta. For the campaign, T-Mobile is pushing its lineup of so-called "4G" handsets, including the Galaxy S 4G, myTouch 4G, and Dell Streak 7.

T-Mobile's decision to portray its network as "4G" has been the subject of controversy, as it is technically built on "3G" technology. However, the carrier has argued that its HSPA+ network operates at "today's 4G speeds."



Verizon launched its proper 4G long-term evolution network in limited markets late last year, while AT&T plans to launch its own LTE network later this year. Because LTE networks utilize different technologies than today's standards, a new iPhone with a 4G-capable internal radio from Apple would be required to access those new networks.

RIM representative says PlayBook will run Android apps

Adding even more evidence to the rumor that RIM's forthcoming touchscreen tablet, the PlayBook, will run Google Android applications is a video discovered by CrackBerry.com. In a hands-on demo done at the recent Mobile World Congress expo in Barcelona, a RIM representative is heard as saying "We will also support Android apps" (see 14 second mark of embedded video below).



The discovery lends support to rumors that RIM plans to add support for Android 2.x applications to the PlayBook. Though the PlayBook will run its own custom QNX operating system, reports have suggested that RIM will emulate Google's open source Android operating system to support the more than 100,000 applications available for it.

Software options for users have become a major selling point for tablets, as Apple's iPad has mounted a considerable lead with more than 60,000 iPad-specific applications available as of late January. The iPad can also run almost all iPhone applications in a scaled-up format, while early Android tablets like the Galaxy Tab ran applications not designed for its larger screen and form factor.
post #2 of 54
This comment comes from viewing the Playbook's "book" app. (Kindle app or whatever it is) in the video attachment with the story.

As an owner of an iPad and a Kindle I can honestly say: books on an LCD display make zero sense, bar saying you have that feature and you have this great UI etc. It's all marketing as far as I'm concerned. It's the screen where ultimately novels fall down - and I don't mean its resolution. There was an article a while back on here that said (and I'm paraphrasing): Study shows iPad no worse on your eyes than Kindle. Well as an owner of both I can tell you any story that says anything like this should be regarded as complete rubbish. Literally any article that says the iPad (or any tablet with an LCD) hurts your eyes no worse than the Kindle is absolute bullshit. Unquestionable bullshit.

For text books, magazines and newspapers LCD is perfectly fine, even better in fact - but for actual "books" LCD is not simply inadequate, but inherently the wrong technology. This is why I wonder if Apple is going to someday bring back the product name iBook. And build the dedicated touch screen e-Ink book reader that plastic logic failed to.

With all that said, however; the Kindle is a piece of crap. Great screen technology, but too small of a screen (7" is more likely the sweet-spot), terrible hardware, software decisions and product design. This problem has yet to be solved in my opinion. As for the Kindle as-a-platform; why would you need your books to work on all these devices if the Kindle itself was so great? The real solution is to fix the Kindle and forget about "the platform" crap. If the Kindle was "awesome" people would use it. If it was truly great people would prefer it to real books. As for the time being real books are still the clear winner in terms of the best way of doing books.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #3 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

This comment comes from viewing the Playbook's "book" app. (Kindle app or whatever it is) in the video attachment with the story.

As an owner of an iPad and a Kindle I can honestly say: books on an LCD display make zero sense, bar saying you have that feature and you have this great UI etc. It's all "marketing" as far as I'm concerned. It's the screen where ultimately novels fall down.

For text books, magazines and newspapers LCD is perfectly fine, even great - but for actual "books" LCD is inadequate. This is why I wonder if Apple is going to someday bring back the product name iBook. And build the dedicated touch screen e-Ink book reader that plastic logic failed to do.

Not to be a hater but...what odes this have to do with the article?
post #4 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

Not to be a hater but...what odes this have to do with the article?

He doesn't even know!
post #5 of 54
T-mobile..FIRE and yes I mean FIRE the person behind this fail campaign. It's going to hurt you in the long run.


Iphone 4 (not Iphone 4G).... meaning 4th Iphone not 4G capable. My 4 year old understands this...if your customers don't I think I finally understand how you manage to stay in business.
post #6 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

T-Mobile's decision to portray its network as "4G" has been the subject of controversy, as it is technically built on "3G" technology. However, the carrier has argued that its HSPA+ network operates at "today's 4G speeds."

AT&T is doing the same thing as well.
post #7 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

... For text books, magazines and newspapers LCD is perfectly fine, even great - but for actual "books" LCD is inadequate. ...

Why is it perfectly fine for one but not the other? Reading is reading. And what exactly do you mean by "text books": Textbooks or books that are text only? I read on my iPad and iPhone all the time -- books that are text only -- and it's not a problem for me in any way, far from inadequate.
post #8 of 54
I'm starting to get quite annoyed by the T-mobile commercials. They seem be be spouting BS the entire time. T mobile's "4G" speeds are horrendous compared to AT&T or Verizon's 3G speeds. I've done a handful of side by side comparison's thanks to some of my users having devices on T mobile.

If it wasn't for Miss 4G's semi-decent looks and flashy leg reveling dresses, who would pay attention to the commercials?
2010 17" MBP and many i devices.

Former Owner of multiple generations of Mac's all the way back to the Performa 6400.
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2010 17" MBP and many i devices.

Former Owner of multiple generations of Mac's all the way back to the Performa 6400.
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post #9 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

He doesn't even know!

Did you ream my comment? Check out the first paragraph.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #10 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Did you ream my comment? Check out the first paragraph.

I understand you like being reamed, but I politely decline.
post #11 of 54
The PlayBook is another of those smaller tablets that will fight it out for that part of the market -- right now the only competitor to the iPad remains the XOOM, which I found to be a bit disappointing once I got my hands on one (though there were certain things that I definitely liked about it).

Being able to run Android apps is great, so long as there are tablet optimized apps available. I read a story this morning from somebody who said they loved the XOOM and thought it was great that MLB at Bat was available for it. But my search of the Android Market revealed that the only MLB at Bat app for Android was designed for smartphones. This guy will soon learn what iPad owners learned a long time ago: sure iPhone apps will work on the iPad, but they are definitely not a great experience compared to apps specifically optimized for the tablet.
post #12 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by sessamoid View Post

I understand you like being reamed, but I politely decline.

You are sick.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #13 of 54
T Mobile needs to understand that no matter how fast there network is , there coverage area needs vast improvements.

Our company is leaving them soon (I am Told) as the service just cant compare to AT&T or Verizon.

Playbook uses Android apps?
Sorry that is not a good thing. To many crappy apps and knock off's.
Ninjump and Cityjump as an example.
There are others but you get the point.

2010 MacBook Pro 13, 2.66
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2010 MacBook Pro 13, 2.66
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iPhone 3G 8GB
iPhone 4 on StraightTalk

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post #14 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

... With all that said, however; the Kindle is a piece of crap. Great screen technology, but too small of a screen (7" is more likely the sweet-spot) ...

Considering that they've already thought of this and released the Kindle DX, this complaint falls flat.
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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post #15 of 54
Does anyone know what is involved in setting up a 4G network? Do they have to replace the transmitters on the towers with new ones or is there more?

At least this shouldn't be an issue getting permission to add new towers like in the past, right?
post #16 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

Not to be a hater but...what odes this have to do with the article?

let him, he kept that deep inside for so long
post #17 of 54
T-Mobile is starting to look like a one-trick pony. 4G, 4G, 4G. Hey, guys, how about telling us what you can do rather than what others can't? Especially since your big 4G claim to fame will be left in the dust when LTE is more widely deployed?
post #18 of 54
I guaranty that once one of these networks has honest to God 4G speeds, they will call it 5G.
post #19 of 54
Take a hint, Apple? T-Mobile wants you to make a 4G iPhone for the T-Mobile network already! And so do I!
post #20 of 54
T-Mobile has been fighting the iPhone since it was released. At first they claimed it was a novelty, then not a business tool, then they attacked the cost (both the device and the service) and now they are attacking it because it doesn't have 4G?

Here is an interesting bit of real world knowledge - I have a T-Mobile myTouch 4G and an iPhone 4 on AT&T: The iPhone consistently loads webpages FASTER than the myTouch. The iPhone consistently maintains a 3G connection, whereas T-Mobiles network is so f*ed up that I bounce from 4g (H) to Edge (E) ALL THE TIME. Add to that the joy of not being able to browse and talk at the same time and AT&T gets another +.

Even more disturbing news for T-Mobile - My wife was a die hard T-Mobile customer for 8 years. She recently upgraded to the HTC HD7 (it sucked), then to the T-Mobile G2 (poor responsiveness), then to the myTouch 4G (still an android but a bit better), and yesterday she upgraded to an iPhone 4 on AT&T. Yep - she changed carriers to get a smartphone that WORKS. 4G on T-Mobile meant nothing to her; reliability, usability and consistency - thats what mattered.

T-Mobile is grasping at anything to stay relevant. They have failed to secure any relations with Apple - no iPhone, no iPad, nothing. Instead they have tried to make it selling cheap iPhone wanna-be's to people who want cheap phones. If it wasn't for the fact that my company is locked into a T-Mobile contract - we would all have iPhones and be on either AT&T or Verizon. As it is - I have a personal AT&T account so I can have the phone I want to use, and just use the myTouch to make work related phone calls and view my calendar items (not create, or edit, or manage - Android can't do that).

Even if 4G was consistent, reliable and stable - I would still prefer a useable phone with an excellent experience on a slower network over a fast network I can't do anything with because the phones all SUCK.
post #21 of 54
If the Playbook is going to run Android apps, that tells you the sad state of RIM's own ecosystem.


I am guessing this would just be pre-Honeycomb crap too. Who wants that on a tablet?
post #22 of 54
More playbook news? Yawn.
post #23 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopollution View Post

Considering that they've already thought of this and released the Kindle DX, this complaint falls flat.

So the Kindle DX is inexpensive? No. The Kindle DX is 7"? No. Same crap hardware and software design? Yes.

What exactly is your point?
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #24 of 54
All T-Mobile phones
are 3G phones.


True story. Despite the 4, all
T-Mobile phones run on 3G
networks per the ITU.




Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

AT&T is doing the same thing as well.

They had no choice. Sprint started it with saying their WiMAX was 4G even though their implementation was about as far as you could get from the then ITU definition of 4G, then T-Mobile with LTE (which AT&T rallied against, at first), then Verizon with LTE. AT&T really has no choice in a society that is ignorant to technical aspects and is used to the marketing terms typically have a one up over the previous generation tech.

I cant fault them for that, nor can we fault the public for not realizing how HSPA compares with HSPA+ compares to WiMAX compares LTE compares to LTE-Advanced, or how the ITU defines these terms and every carrier in the US is using the marketing term because they can (and should). All we can do is try not to strain the rectus muscles of our orbits when we uncontrollably roll our eyes when someone claims that their phone with 4G in better than a phone with 3G without actually knowing what that implies except that the number before the G is one more than the other.
post #25 of 54
From a platform competition standpoint this makes sense. They are probably just running the Java part of Android on QNX. Nobody else is doing it currently, but it would make sense that it is portable and not terribly difficult to write. Android probably already has a operating system compatibility layer since they are running Java which cannot directly access the operating system. They would just need to rewrite that layer for QNX. This way they could run QNX native, Adobe Air, and Android on the same device. The problem with this is that it may be a battery drain with the background processes of each system all running at the same time and there may be look and feel issues. They may be able to avoid some issues by making their OS highly Android compatible. My first thought is that they will probably lag way behind in Android releases since they would have significantly more work to incorporate each new version of Android then other vendors. I wonder if WebOS might take the same approach to keep from being considered a niche player. There are costs to this approach though. This may increase their software pool and drag development down at the same time. It also give less incentive to create native QNX apps so they will be less differentiated. It sounds like they know they are going to fail to attract developers and they just don't want to throw out QNX and upset their shareholders over a purchase that now seems extraneous.
post #26 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

So the Kindle DX is inexpensive? No. The Kindle DX is 7"? No. Same crap hardware and software design? Yes.

What exactly is your point?

I countered your argument that the screen is too small. I mentioned nothing about price. Considering that your initial post mentions absolutely nothing about price, I have no idea why you're now complaining about the cost of a Kindle DX.

I'm guessing you don't read actual paperback books, by the way, as they're too small per your specs.

What exactly is your point?
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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post #27 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

As an owner of an iPad and a Kindle I can honestly say: books on an LCD display make zero sense, bar saying you have that feature and you have this great UI etc. It's all marketing as far as I'm concerned. It's the screen where ultimately novels fall down - and I don't mean its resolution. There was an article a while back on here that said (and I'm paraphrasing): Study shows iPad no worse on your eyes than Kindle. Well as an owner of both I can tell you any story that says anything like this should be regarded as complete rubbish. Literally any article that says the iPad (or any tablet with an LCD) hurts your eyes no worse than the Kindle is absolute bullshit. Unquestionable bullshit.

For text books, magazines and newspapers LCD is perfectly fine, even better in fact - but for actual "books" LCD is not simply inadequate, but inherently the wrong technology. This is why I wonder if Apple is going to someday bring back the product name iBook. And build the dedicated touch screen e-Ink book reader that plastic logic failed to.

What exactly is the difference between "text books" and "actual "books""? Do you mean textbooks (like college courses) vs reading novels? Reading is reading. I'm on a computer at least 12 hours a day and went to have my eyes checked recently. Both my eyes are 20/20 and when he tested both eyes together I have better than 20/20. I don't get eyestrain or headaches from reading the big 1600x1200 CRT at work or the 1680x1050 LCD I have at home. When I'm using my wife's iPad, I can lay down in the dark and read, which I can't do w/o a nightlight of some form if I'm trying to read an actual book.
post #28 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopollution View Post

I countered your argument that the screen is too small. I mentioned nothing about price. Considering that your initial post mentions absolutely nothing about price, I have no idea why you're now complaining about the cost of a Kindle DX.

Fair enough, but I did mention 7" specifically.

And I'm telling you now, price matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopollution View Post

I'm guessing you don't read actual paperback books, by the way, as they're too small per your specs.

What exactly is your point?

6" paperback books, on the diagonal? Where? At least if you are going to try to be snarky about it you should have gone and actually measured a few paperback books first.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #29 of 54
Sigh...

Bad part is there are plenty of consumers that buy this garbage.
post #30 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

All T-Mobile phones
are 3G phones.


True story. Despite the ‘4,’ all
T-Mobile phones run on 3G
networks per the ITU.



They had no choice. Sprint started it with saying their WiMAX was ‘4G’ even though their implementation was about as far as you could get from the then ITU definition of ‘4G’, then T-Mobile with LTE (which AT&T rallied against, at first), then Verizon with LTE.

Actually, T-Mobile is doing it with their HSPA+ network. AT&T has a pretty large HSPA+ network, but avoided calling it 4G because they were already planning LTE (like Verizon) - which, when maxed out, is a much better representation of what the ITU defines as 4G (though really, LTE-A is "true" 4G).

Personally, I think that AT&T has the best road map. HSPA+ as a backup for their LTE makes a lot more sense than VZW's LTE or bust plan.

edit:
What I mean is, AT&T already had a HSPA+ network, but because T-Mobile is claiming HSPA+ = 4G, they really had no choice but to do the same. But with them offering both HSPA+ and LTE, their customers (me) will probably have it worse off. MetroPCS/Verizon are working on LTE and their 4G phones will be LTE (this year). So far, all of AT&T's 4G phones that are already announced are HSPA+. Their 4G phones later this year, and next year, will be LTE, but still marked as 4G. If the iPhone 5 gets "4G", I pray it's LTE.
post #31 of 54
Dell Streak 7. Despite the 7, it runs on.... etc etc

great argument lads... out did yourselves there !!

I must go buy a blackberry torch in case the leccy ever goes out...
post #32 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The iPad can also run almost all iPhone applications in a scaled-up format, while early Android tablets like the Galaxy Tab ran applications not designed for its larger screen and form factor.

So, what's the difference between running "scaled-up format" apps on an iPad and running apps that are "not designed for its larger screen and form factor" on an Android tablet? Either way the user experience is going to be poorer than if the app was natively designed for the tablet's particular screen size and resolution.

-------

And to Ireland: The Kindle is a trojan horse. Amazon doesn't care whether the device lives or dies. It gives them an excuse to mention the Kindle bookstore on their home page. It's the eBook mindshare they're after. Much like iTunes is basically synonymous with online music, Amazon wants the same thing when it comes to eBooks. Thus why they've made a Kindle ebook reader app for every major desktop and smartphone OS.
post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

So, what's the difference between running "scaled-up format" apps on an iPad and running apps that are "not designed for its larger screen and form factor" on an Android tablet? Either way the user experience is going to be poorer than if the app was natively designed for the tablet's particular screen size and resolution.

-------

And to Ireland: The Kindle is a trojan horse. Amazon doesn't care whether the device lives or dies. It gives them an excuse to mention the Kindle bookstore on their home page. It's the eBook mindshare they're after. Much like iTunes is basically synonymous with online music, Amazon wants the same thing when it comes to eBooks. Thus why they've made a Kindle ebook reader app for every major desktop and smartphone OS.

And I still can't figure out why RIM wants to dilute their brand by even having Android apps run on their device in the first place.

This company, man, I've become morbidly fascinated with their public flailings over a product they've not even launched yet.
post #34 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

There is a much better chance of the iPhone going to Sprint which would be easy for Apple to do now that there is a Verizon iPhone. Not so with T Mobile.

A might go for a Sprint iPhone, but I would prefer T-Mobile since Sprint can't do data and voice at the same time.
post #35 of 54
BIG BIG mistake for RIM to even think of supporting Android apps on Playbook. Why would any developer bother to write native Playbook apps if they could just sell their Android apps on to the platform. So all that will happen is that RIM will have very few native apps for Playbook which totally defeats the object of having their own platform.

Up to now I've felt that RIM had a sneaking chance of surviving through their own "burning platform" problems - they certainly had more of a strategy than Nokia. However I have now changed my mind. If they are SO lacking in confidence that anyone will support their platform that they're giving up before it has even been released then they're obviously doomed. Doomed!
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post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

If the Playbook is going to run Android apps, that tells you the sad state of RIM's own ecosystem.


I am guessing this would just be pre-Honeycomb crap too. Who wants that on a tablet?

Yah, this is going to work well for a couple apps but the majority are likely some kind of broken.

Not expecting sufficient native apps is a real admission of weakness.
post #37 of 54
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post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

As an owner of an iPad and a Kindle I can honestly say: books on an LCD display make zero sense, bar saying you have that feature and you have this great UI etc. It's all marketing as far as I'm concerned. It's the screen where ultimately novels fall down - and I don't mean its resolution. There was an article a while back on here that said (and I'm paraphrasing): Study shows iPad no worse on your eyes than Kindle. Well as an owner of both I can tell you any story that says anything like this should be regarded as complete rubbish. Literally any article that says the iPad (or any tablet with an LCD) hurts your eyes no worse than the Kindle is absolute bullshit. Unquestionable bullshit.

For text books, magazines and newspapers LCD is perfectly fine, even better in fact - but for actual "books" LCD is not simply inadequate, but inherently the wrong technology. This is why I wonder if Apple is going to someday bring back the product name iBook. And build the dedicated touch screen e-Ink book reader that plastic logic failed to.

Do you have anything to back up your statements or are you just really telling us your OPINION?
post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Do you have anything to back up your statements or are you just really telling us your OPINION?

I'll take "Opinions" for $400 Alex
post #40 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

So now RIM is opening up to Android apps?

Think about what this means for developers....


Clearly the RIM share does not represent the Playbook. All of that share will NOT run Android apps until some unspecified time in the future. In the short term it will only be Playbook that will run Android apps. By the time that RIM phones run Android apps all the competitive smartphone platforms will have had at least one year's more development to get even further ahead.
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