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Apple's iPad 2 unveiling viewed as 'crucial' to stay ahead of competition - Page 2

post #41 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

Considering that the iPad 1 is better than most of the "plethora" of products coming out this year, I think they could put a sticker on that one that said 2 and be fine. Apple has nothing to worry about here.

I have (just because it was available) tried the new Moto Xoom and it feels rushed and unstable, and over-priced for what it is. It would be fairly nice if the Ipad were not in existence. I am not even including the fact that Ios Apps are of much higher quality in large part than any Android App.
post #42 of 132
The fact that there are going to be a 100 Android tablet releases this year only makes Apple's life easier. Real competition will not come from 100 different tablets, none of which will ever get any significant marketshare individually, real competition will come from a single tablet that offers real and recognizable advantages over the iPad. Right now, none of the Android tablets seem to have anything going against the iPad except a spec sheet, and even that gap will probably be closed far enough to be irrelevant tomorrow.

If anything, 100 Android tablets hitting the market will fragment Honeycomb just like it fragmented Android on smartphones, up to the point that no single, stabilized hardware/software spec will ever gain critical mass to make it interesting to AAA developers to invest millions into something like the Rage or Unreal engine. There will be expensive high-end Android tablets like the Xoom or the Samsung thing, there will be cheap low-quality Android tablets from the likes of Archos or MSI, there will be dual-core ARM based ones, Rockchip x86 based ones, Oak Trail based x86 ones, some with a single-core PowerVR GPU, some with a dual-core one, some with Nvidia Tegra2 graphics, some with Intel Integrated graphics, some will get updated beyond 3.0, some wont, some will have better resolution than the iPad, some will have worse, 7", 8", 9", 10", and so on, and so forth. Just because there will be so much variation, the people buying these Android tablets will again not be able to enjoy any kind of application that really needs to get the most out of the hardware it is running, since every application will again be programmed to the lowest common denominator. Not really a problem for many applications, but definitely a problem for high-performance games, anything graphics related or anything that requires huge investments to develop.
post #43 of 132
so if you eliminate cheap asian crap, how many are left? 2?
post #44 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch

"Apple's iPad 2 unveiling viewed as 'crucial' to stay ahead of competition"

You don't wait until the competition has caught up to "stay ahead" of them. His point is not only valid, but so obvious anyone could be doing his job.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #45 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by xSamplex View Post

Regarding tomorrow's announcement, I have a funny feeling they may pull a Mac Mini on us, and up the floor price by $100.

I doubt it, Apple doesn't give two hoots about the Mac Mini. They have it tucked away in a corner in my local AppleStore and I haven't seen it in any of my local Mac retailers. I wouldn't be surprised if they finally axed it this year.
post #46 of 132
Quote:
"We estimate there are well over one hundred tablets coming to market around the world this year," White said. "Assuming a new iPad is unveiled at this event, we believe Apple must make a convincing case for why the iPad 2 is better than the plethora of competitors coming to market, while at the same time persuading iPad 1 buyers to upgrade to iPad 2."

He might be kidding! It's quite the opposite all these newcomers have to prove that they worth at least one positive review in a whole product lifetime before comparing to iPad.
post #47 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by xSamplex View Post

Unless Apple takes the restrictions off developers, there's going to be a lot of love for Android tablets, just like there is for Android phones. Apple will probably own more than half the market for quite a while, but the market is no longer cornered. Which is a good thing for all customers.

More developers have made more money, more quickly on ios than any other platform.
post #48 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

Considering that the iPad 1 is better than most of the "plethora" of products coming out this year, I think they could put a sticker on that one that said 2 and be fine. Apple has nothing to worry about here.

Maybe, but that's a very dangerous approach, some of these new tablets represent serious competition. Apple cannot afford to rest on its laurels.
post #49 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 cents View Post

And the competition is?

Exactly. Is this guy stoned? Yes there are hundreds of competing tablets but guess what? They're all behind even the CURRENT iPad! This is not "critical." In fact, Apple could wait till Christmas to unveil a new iPad and still hold the market. Is it a next-step? Of course. Is it good for them to keep their edge? Yes. But to say, "Oh...Apple better watch out for Brand-X's new tablet!" I ask, "Who's!?" Xoom=overpriced, and pretty-much everyone is tied to a communications company thus using subsidizing as a means of competing. This market is Apple's to lose because nobody is even within sight of them at the moment. In NASCAR terms, they're so far ahead, they could take a 10 minute pit time and win this race.
post #50 of 132
iPad 1 users are not likely to upgrade to iPad 2. I wouldn't. Apple makes a quality product that functions well for a long time. Heck, I still have the original iPhone - I do plan to replace it with an iPhone 5 though.

No, the most important thing is to have a good showing for potential new buyers for the iPad 2. Apple needs to understand that hardware spec DOES matter, and that unlike Windows, Android does NOT suck. Android might not have all the little refinements of iOS or as robust an ecosystem, but Honeycomb makes huge strides for Android, and the hardware coming out, especially those with Tegra 2 processor are serious, and I mean serious competition.

Apple really needs to watch their back this time. This is not like the iPhone where it's taken over 3 years for the others to catch up. Viable competition for iPad is here now.
post #51 of 132
The iPad is to tablets what the Walkman was to portable tape players back in the day .... there is a great benefit to establishing a new market leaving all else seeming to be poor imitations. Not to mention all the other things such as eco systems, OS and quality. Hopefully Apple will keep well ahead and also establish what comes next after tablets unlike Sony and their Walkman.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #52 of 132
I'm surprised no one has mentioned marketing. The people who follow web sites such as this one represent a tiny portion of the potential market. Most people get their information about consumer tech devices from television, newspapers/magazines and word of mouth from their friends. The IPad type device is still new to most people and IPad competitors can take some of the market with aggressive television advertising. Apple can't rest, it's not just neccessary to make great products, you must aggressively market to sell beyond the tech crowd.
post #53 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

To be fair, he's right in what he says. It's just that it's stating the obvious but it's his job to analyse, even when the analysis is easy. He didn't ask to be quoted in our bear pit lol

As is typical, the new iPad will be great. You've heard the rumors. But the professional analysts will be disappointed that it didn't include this and that, and that iPad2 will be in trouble...

Then worldwide sales will skyrocket (will production and supplies be able to keep-up?) and the AAPL stock will approach 400!
post #54 of 132
Partial quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

iPad 1 users are not likely to upgrade to iPad 2.

A ton of guys will be passing iPad -1s to their kids and wives and buying version 2. Just watch.
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post #55 of 132
This comes down to a tradeoff between market share and profit margin. If iPad2 has 1GB ram, dual-core CPU/GPU, an improved screen (not retina, just better in some ways), and weight 1lb or so, and still keep the 16GB model at $499, it'll do well this year, nobody else can match this. If it only has 512MB ram, slower GPU, same screen, and >1.25lb weight, then it won't.
post #56 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post

"Apple's iPad 2 unveiling viewed as 'crucial' to stay ahead of competition"

Right now, essentially there IS no competition. At least, none that can be taken seriously. Apple has, what, 80% of this market? With such a lead, Apple's not concerned with 'staying ahead' of anyone. What Apple is trying to do is FORESTALL competition. That is - to keep it from getting a solid foothold in the 'tablet' market niche Apple has created.

Right now, Apple's competitors lack both its resources and determination. That means they are struggling to hit the price/performance target that Apple has set with its initial iPad offering. To forestall competition, then, Apple's strategy is to keep moving the target. This should confuse and frustrate competitors who are, again, struggling to deliver products aimed at the CURRENT target.

With that understanding: Yes, the iPad 2 is crucial in FORESTALLING Apple's competition.

Actually, there is competition. The Galaxy Tab has been out for a while, and even though it's pretty lame, it still competes, and there have been plenty of confused consumers, and some suckers, who are buying it. The real competition is also shipping now, and the biggest is the Moto Xoom. It is a serious contender, it doesn't suck, and it's only a tiny bit more expensive. It also has the hardware chops to put the current iPad to shame - good thing iPad 2 is imminent.

It would be ideal for Apple to move the target and "forestall" their competition, but I think that's a bit 'wishful thinking'. Apple executes well, but not that well. Apple does a good job of this at first, such as with the initial intro of the Mac, the 1st Powerbook, the iPod, the iPhone and the iPad, catching the competition off guard, but over a little time, these products only remain marginally better than the competition, and Apple does little to move the target with an existing product.
post #57 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfpseller View Post

Absolutely right. See how Android phones grow when Apple relaxed by introducing iPhone 3GS as an upgrade of 3G.

Android Xoom is still expensive but when time comes, more and more Android tablets with different prices targeted for different customers will eat Apple's share

Android phones sales growth happened because manufacturers started making good Android phones and giving Android their full attention. Low price points and buy one get one offers also helped snag people not normally interested in the more expensive smartphones.

The iPhone 3GS had phenomenal sales, Android got its market share elsewhere.

Edit: And for the record. Nothing had better specs than the 3GS until a good 6 months after it was launched. Apple's iOS devices are always top notch specs wise.
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post #58 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemost View Post

As is typical, the new iPad will be great. You've heard the rumors. But the professional analysts will be disappointed that it didn't include this and that, and that iPad2 will be in trouble...

Then worldwide sales will skyrocket (will production and supplies be able to keep-up?) and the AAPL stock will approach 400!

If everything goes as usual AAPL will rise the day before and drop on the day of the launch. Then, as you say, climb ever higher over time.
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post #59 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Partial quote:

A ton of guys will be passing iPad -1s to their kids and wives and buying version 2. Just watch.

Okay, I'll give you that. That's something I could see myself doing as well.
post #60 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sipadan View Post

Amen to that. What kind of twisted logic brings analysts to portray Apple as on the brink of meltdown unless they somehow "prove" their upcoming IPad will be better than vaporware/half baked concepts that will for the most part never even make it to market?

Last time I checked I still have to see a competing tablet that delivers HALF AS GOOD an experience as the Ipad1, let alone the Ipad2, Dear analyst Sir. Maybe before pathetically trying to create a potential disaster scenario for Apple out of thin air you could actually evaluate products...

When any non Apple tablet actually matches the Ipad1, let's see then how far ahead Apple will already be Ipad3 at least (spoken like an analyst....)

That's a good point, but keep in mind that the vast majority of consumers truly aren't all that smart. They do no research, and very little hands-on. If a big-box retail sales person waves a shiny new object in their face and tells them it will solve 'world hunger', they will buy it. Most people don't understand or care about a superior product. The sea of Windows PCs shows this is true. Apple has to execute spectacularly with each new model, and they constantly have to stay in people's faces (marketing) to maintain their lead. The better product helps, but herding the sheeple comes first if you are to be successful.
post #61 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfpseller View Post

Absolutely right. See how Android phones grow when Apple relaxed by introducing iPhone 3GS as an upgrade of 3G.

Android Xoom is still expensive but when time comes, more and more Android tablets with different prices targeted for different customers will eat Apple's share

Android hasnt hurt Apple one bit. Androids growth has only affected Microsoft, HP, and RIM.
post #62 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

Apple needs to understand that hardware spec DOES matter, and that unlike Windows, Android does NOT suck. Android might not have all the little refinements of iOS or as robust an ecosystem, but Honeycomb makes huge strides for Android, and the hardware coming out, especially those with Tegra 2 processor are serious, and I mean serious competition.

The funny thing is that so far, all this talk about how seriously great Honeycomb and Tegra 2 is, it all seems based more on hype and PR than on any capability or real-world achievement. I'm not saying Honeycomb is not a great OS or that Tegra 2 is not a good SoC, but I'm not totally convinced they are terribly great either.

Just notice: everyone trying to make a case for the great hardware specs you get on Android devices is pointing to Tegra 2. Yet, in the real world, it turns out the OMAP4xxx series appear to be the faster chips, and that even with Tegra 2, the Honeycomb UI is apparently not even smoother than 'almost as smooth as iOS 4' on the single-core A4 in the iPad. Some reviews even say it's 'choppy at times'. Then there is Honeycomb, which as of yet, to me is no more than a UI overhaul that doesn't even look particularly great and apparently has some ways to go in terms of usability (reviews call it complicated with some usability flaws). That's all I know about Honeycomb. No-one is pointing out any killer features, new development frameworks or superior additions that make Honeycomb anything more than some sort of 'Android tablet reboot' with a better tablet-centric UI, just launched to get away from all these scaled up phone applications.

I'm still waiting to see how Honeycomb will progress and if it will ever catch on like iOS on the iPad did, before I see cartloads of really nice Honeycomb apps with proper tablet user interfaces, I've not seen anything. Yet many of te most rabid Android fans go completely crazy about it, acting as if iOS is now surely outdated because it is 'not a real tablet OS', conveniently hijacking and turning around the argument that always plagued the Android 2.x tablets.
post #63 of 132
ice and cream viewed as crucial for the survival of ice cream. Sugar seems to also play a part.
post #64 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatunike View Post

in other 'news'....it's important that I breathe....

post #65 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by autism109201 View Post

You can't be serious! I thought keeping a product stagnant was a better strategy.

post #66 of 132
Even if Apple didn’t release an iPad 2, they’d still be sitting pretty for the rest of the year. The Galaxy Tab is a joke and a flop; the Xoom is overpriced, buggy, and has no apps; the PlayBook will be a mess; and the TouchPad will be a long shot.
post #67 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

Android hasnt hurt Apple one bit. Androids growth has only affected Microsoft, HP, and RIM.

I give up!
post #68 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

To be fair, he's right in what he says. It's just that it's stating the obvious but it's his job to analyse, even when the analysis is easy. He didn't ask to be quoted in our bear pit lol

I disagree. This is over-the-top nonsense and deserved to be ridiculed.

It's important for Apple to perform here and perform well, but what this guy is saying is that Apple is in danger of losing 50% of the market if they don't come up with something fantastic and amazing to top the last iPad. That's a vast overstatement of the facts and smells of stock manipulation to me.

Apple currently has almost the entire market to itself. In fact it defined and continues to define said market. Even the recent reports that Android devices have 20% of it are inflated nonsense based on channel filling and purposely deceptive reports. To suggest that a minor mis-step from Apple here will basically lose the game for them is ridiculous.

They are already winning the game on pricing. A solid (even if it's boring), upgrade with a lower price would easily do enough to keep them on top for the next year. Personally I would expect a lot more but to imply that this is "necessary" to keep Android at bay is laughable.
post #69 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

I give up!

You cant argue with fact.
post #70 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

The funny thing is that so far, all this talk about how seriously great Honeycomb and Tegra 2 is, it all seems based more on hype and PR than on any capability or real-world achievement. I'm not saying Honeycomb is not a great OS or that Tegra 2 is not a good SoC, but I'm not totally convinced they are terribly great either.

Just notice: everyone trying to make a case for the great hardware specs you get on Android devices is pointing to Tegra 2. Yet, in the real world, it turns out the OMAP4xxx series appear to be the faster chips, and that even with Tegra 2, the Honeycomb UI is apparently not even smoother than 'almost as smooth as iOS 4' on the single-core A4 in the iPad. Some reviews even say it's 'choppy at times'. Then there is Honeycomb, which as of yet, to me is no more than a UI overhaul that doesn't even look particularly great and apparently has some ways to go in terms of usability (reviews call it complicated with some usability flaws). That's all I know about Honeycomb. No-one is pointing out any killer features, new development frameworks or superior additions that make Honeycomb anything more than some sort of 'Android tablet reboot' with a better tablet-centric UI, just launched to get away from all these scaled up phone applications.

I'm still waiting to see how Honeycomb will progress and if it will ever catch on like iOS on the iPad did, before I see cartloads of really nice Honeycomb apps with proper tablet user interfaces, I've not seen anything. Yet many of te most rabid Android fans go completely crazy about it, acting as if iOS is now surely outdated because it is 'not a real tablet OS', conveniently hijacking and turning around the argument that always plagued the Android 2.x tablets.

You know I agree with you, and I didn't want to imply that iOS was inferior or in trouble, my point is just that Honeycomb fixes the 'scaled up phone apps' problem of Android among other things, and that competitors have access to powerful hardware, whether it be Tegra 2 or OMAP4 chips. They can now build tablets that are 'good enough' to be serious contenders to the iPad. There is no shortage of people who compare products by their spec sheet - they don't know any better. Apple has to stay on top of these things to stay ahead.
post #71 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

iPad 1 users are not likely to upgrade to iPad 2. I wouldn't. Apple makes a quality product that functions well for a long time. Heck, I still have the original iPhone - I do plan to replace it with an iPhone 5 though.

No, the most important thing is to have a good showing for potential new buyers for the iPad 2. Apple needs to understand that hardware spec DOES matter, and that unlike Windows, Android does NOT suck. Android might not have all the little refinements of iOS or as robust an ecosystem, but Honeycomb makes huge strides for Android, and the hardware coming out, especially those with Tegra 2 processor are serious, and I mean serious competition.

Apple really needs to watch their back this time. This is not like the iPhone where it's taken over 3 years for the others to catch up. Viable competition for iPad is here now.

This is bizarre commentary. In fact it's almost like you are this guy:


Everything you say is the opposite of reality.

- People will most certainly upgrade
- Hardware specs *don't* matter to average consumers
- Android most definitely sucks (compared to iOS based on customer responses)
- No one can yet compete with iPad 1.0 on many fronts (price, UI, apps, etc.)

History, facts, customer surveys, and pretty much everything else would argue against you here.
post #72 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You don't wait until the competition has caught up to "stay ahead" of them. His point is not only valid, but so obvious anyone could be doing his job.

The phrase 'stay ahead' as used here implies that there is some concern re losing the lead, i.e., that Apple might not 'stay' ahead without this new product.

In fact, there is no reasonable chance that Apple will NOT be the world leader in this category by the end of this year. Or even next year. Therefore, there is no reason for Apple to be concerned with 'staying' ahead. The actual situation is that Apple has an almost-comical lead, and its wanna-be competitors are disorganized and short on resources (compared with Apple).

Therefore, Apple is looking to co-opt its competition. Keep them off-balance, keep them from getting traction, keep them pursuing a moving target.

Apple's concern is strictly tactical. The iPad 2 IS NOT crucial to 'staying ahead' They could sell the original iPad for quite some time and 'stay ahead' quite nicely, thank you. However, the iPad 2 IS crucial tactically - in terms of keeping competitors off-balance.

Ireland is (as usual) so slow to listen and so quick to find fault that he tries to condemn BOTH the writer of this column and myself in one blow, which is pretty awkward. This column's writer is, in fact, not wrong, but misdirected. I have attempted to point out the needed adjustment (rather than just trash the guy, as Ireland sadly is bent on doing).

With the adjustment made, the column is not 'obvious' but in fact, insightful. To reiterate, Apple does NOT need a new product to 'stay ahead'. No one is passing them any time soon. But to disrupt its competitors, yes, the iPad 2 IS crucial, as the author states.

Just a matter of a choice of words and a more finely-tuned understanding of the issue, really.
post #73 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

Just notice: everyone trying to make a case for the great hardware specs you get on Android devices is pointing to Tegra 2. Yet, in the real world, it turns out the OMAP4xxx series appear to be the faster chips, and that even with Tegra 2, the Honeycomb UI is apparently not even smoother than 'almost as smooth as iOS 4' on the single-core A4 in the iPad. Some reviews even say it's 'choppy at times'.

That's right, the problem is the generic nature of the Android OS means it doesn't really know what hardware capabilities it has so it doesn't use any hardware acceleration. This is why Android phones with 1Ghz processors have choppier scrolling that the original iPhone with it's 400Mhz CPU.

I think the biggest update needed is to iOS as someone mentioned earlier. Once you actually start using WP7 it makes iOS look a bit dated in some areas. Apple need to deliver a bigger set of changes than their usual incremental updates.
post #74 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

To be fair, he's right in what he says. It's just that it's stating the obvious but it's his job to analyse, even when the analysis is easy. He didn't ask to be quoted in our bear pit lol

Yea, analysts are given a hard time. Analysts probably predicted that oil prices would go up due to the rebellions in the middle east, too. Obvious, but it's their job to cover their bases and not miss anything.

It's like if you ask someone to give you directions and you criticize them for being too detailed. "DUH I KNOW WE'RE MAKING A LEFT!"
post #75 of 132
I agree. Apple is getting huge pressure from well financed Android makers like Samsung and to a certain extent motorola. Sure there are no products out on the tablet side, but we saw how fast Android phone activations shot up around the world. Google is giving these companies the creative edge in software and internet services they would have never had on their own. We all know these companies can crank out good hardware, so apple needs to one up on the software and content front.
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post #76 of 132
These analysts are stuck thinking about hardware. Almost all of the competitors will be running on very similar hardware...but it is Apple's software that differentiates itself from the rest.
post #77 of 132
I'm convinced the iPad has reached the status of the "iPod" of tablets, or it's very near to reaching that status.

RIM, HP, and the pile of Androids have definite advantages over the iPad. But to everyone except Apple haters, the iPad is the natural choice when they want a tablet, and "iPad" is almost synonymous with "tablet". Most people wouldn't look anywhere else.

Having that said, it's no reason to get lazy! I want SD slot, and bumped resolution damn it!
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post #78 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoot27 View Post

These analysts are stuck thinking about hardware and software

How many variations are there of Android?

-----

24 hours to go.

Really hope the immediate availability rumor is true.

 

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You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #79 of 132
I took a picture of the Xoom launch at a local Best Buy, and had to Photoshop people IN.
post #80 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

I give up!

Can you find any evidence that andriod has even put a dent in AAPLs iOS profit? Andriod can gobble all the marketshare they want on the race to bottom with zero sum profit margins. The tablet game is different than the cell phone game. If the competition can only get their tablets priced competitively with a 2-year contract then game over.
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