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Michael Savage - Page 3

post #81 of 97
3/9/11 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Your questions were answered. But regardless, it appears you are more interested in games than conversing. Prove me wrong.

I asked you a couple of things that you have either ignored or dodged:

1. provide support for your accusation of my hypocrisy
2. provide support for your accusation my using non sequiturs
3. how should we classify your views which appear to include both stealing from people and forcing people to do what you think they should do?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

What is your plan for those who remain homeless? What is your plan for those who still cannot afford healthcare?

Since it looks like you don't have the decency to answer my questions...I'll stop waiting.

My answer to this has a couple of components:

1. I don't know. I don't know because you are speaking in broadly general and hypothetical situations. Everyone's situation is different and unique. The causes for the problems you mention could be wide and varied and, thus, require different solutions. While I'm very confident that with the right policy changes there will be far, far fewer of these situations, you are right some (a very small number) will still occur. But each one would need to be dealt with specifically.

2. Private charitable organizations (both secular and religious) would be able to help serve individuals in these circumstances and by following the principle of subsidiarity they will likely be dealt with far more effectively, compassionately and correctly.

Cue: claim of dodging the question because the reader doesn't agree with, like (or understand) the answer.

Now, back to Michael Savage...

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #82 of 97
3/9/11 at 11:29am
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
And you believe as a result no one will be homeless? No one will lose his child's college fund to cancer treatment payments? No one will go untreated?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #83 of 97
3/9/11 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

And you believe as a result no one will be homeless? No one will lose his child's college fund to cancer treatment payments? No one will go untreated?

Not at all. I don't live in a Utopian fantasy world in which all of the worlds problems can be eliminated or solved 100% of the time. It is unfortunate and we can do our very best...we can keep getting get better and better at solving the problems (which I believe will happen in direct proportion to the degree of freedom we all have and the degree to which everyone's basic rights of life, liberty and property are protected)...but reality is reality.

Now...back to Michael Savage (I'm already guilty enough of derailment here)...

(If you'd like to start a thread where the merits of various approaches to solving these problems can be debated, I'm sure I would participate.)

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #84 of 97
3/9/11 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Not at all. I don't live in a Utopian fantasy world in which all of the worlds problems can be eliminated or solved 100% of the time. It is unfortunate and we can do our very best...we can keep getting get better and better at solving the problems (which I believe will happen in direct proportion to the degree of freedom we all have and the degree to which everyone's basic rights of life, liberty and property are protected)...but reality is reality.

Now...back to Michael Savage (I'm already guilty enough of derailment here)...

Yes...I was going to say....we are supposed to be discussing why Savage is a wanker...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #85 of 97
3/9/11 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Yes...I was going to say....we are supposed to be discussing why Savage is a wanker...

Don't really know anything about him. Never heard, seen or read him until this thread. From what I've seen in this thread he sounds like a wanker.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #86 of 97
3/9/11 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Don't really know anything about him. Never heard, seen or read him until this thread. From what I've seen in this thread he sounds like a wanker.

I definitely think he might be one..... it's a shame he has to do it over the airwaves though...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #87 of 97
3/9/11 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I definitely think he might be one..... it's a shame he has to do it over the airwaves though...

Here's my take. There are lots of so-called wankers out there that have a prominent pulpit and a large following. They spout hatred, lies and fallacious statements and arguments.

I see two root issues here: spiritual and educational. I will comment more specifically on the educational part:

I suspect that if people were taught to a) question and challenge claims until properly supported with facts and reasoning, and b) quickly identify fallacious arguments (which are abundant not just among hard-core wankers...but average run-of-the-mill-seemingly-good politicians and media folks) the followings would likely be much smaller.

The schools in the US (for all of the money we've thrown at them...for all of the "reform" that's happened) don't teach this. They basically teach fill-in-the-blank and follow-the-orders/leaders. This is great for creating a large population of followers...drones...sheep.

Sure, some people are able to break out of this and re-educate themselves...but it is rare and requires both work and the mental and emotional fortitude to withstand a constant barrage of doubts, insults, etc.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #88 of 97
3/9/11 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Here's my take. There are lots of so-called wankers out there that have a prominent pulpit and a large following. They spout hatred, lies and fallacious statements and arguments.

I see two root issues here: spiritual and educational. I will comment more specifically on the educational part:

I suspect that if people were taught to a) question and challenge claims until properly supported with facts and reasoning, and b) quickly identify fallacious arguments (which are abundant not just among hard-core wankers...but average run-of-the-mill-seemingly-good politicians and media folks) the followings would likely be much smaller.

The schools in the US (for all of the money we've thrown at them...for all of the "reform" that's happened) don't teach this. They basically teach fill-in-the-blank and follow-the-orders/leaders. This is great for creating a large population of followers...drones...sheep.

Sure, some people are able to break out of this and re-educate themselves...but it is rare and requires both work and the mental and emotional fortitude to withstand a constant barrage of doubts, insults, etc.

I agree with this but it still seems odd to me that one would even NEED to use insults.

I mean why? If you hate someone or something then why glorify that? You don't like Islam - fine, argue logically against it. You're a Christian who doesn't like gays - fine - state your case in a reasonable manner.

That's free speech to me....and I support it. But free abuse and hate is something else....

Why? I just don't get it....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #89 of 97
3/9/11 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I agree with this but it still seems odd to me that one would even NEED to use insults.

I mean why? If you hate someone or something then why glorify that? You don't like Islam - fine, argue logically against it. You're a Christian who doesn't like gays - fine - state your case in a reasonable manner.

That's free speech to me....and I support it. But free abuse and hate is something else....

Why? I just don't get it....

Nobody needs to use them. But they are easier to use than actual arguments that lead someone to an understanding of what you are trying to say. And if you start with arguments and the other is being obstinate about it from your perspective it is a bit cathartic to toss an insult to show them you are through with them and as such do not have to continue to put forth the effort of engaging a brick wall.

In the end, insults are simple laziness. It should never have to come to that, but there it is anyhow.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #90 of 97
3/9/11 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Nobody needs to use them. But they are easier to use than actual arguments that lead someone to an understanding of what you are trying to say. And if you start with arguments and the other is being obstinate about it from your perspective it is a bit cathartic to toss an insult to show them you are through with them and as such do not have to continue to put forth the effort of engaging a brick wall.

In the end, insults are simple laziness. It should never have to come to that, but there it is anyhow.

I'm not talking about insults - I insult people often myself. I am talking about a form of hate that is very negative and destructive.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #91 of 97
3/9/11 at 1:21pm
The best answer I can offer is that emotions tend to be stronger than reason and things like insults both come from and appeal to emotions. You see it here all the time. You have to work at calming your emotional reaction to a particular thing and dive deeper into the logic, facts, etc. Many people don't put in the effort. A recent book I read characterized it like this: The heart and head are like an elephant and its rider. The rider (the head) is and can be in control...but the elephant (heart) is a powerful beast that will go its own way and overpower the rider. It seems like a reasonably apt analogy.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #92 of 97
3/9/11 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

The best answer I can offer is that emotions tend to be stronger than reason and things like insults both come from and appeal to emotions. You see it here all the time. You have to work at calming your emotional reaction to a particular thing and dive deeper into the logic, facts, etc. Many people don't put in the effort. A recent book I read characterized it like this: The heart and head are like an elephant and its rider. The rider (the head) is and can be in control...but the elephant (heart) is a powerful beast that will go its own way and overpower the rider. It seems like a reasonably apt analogy.

It's not the same....no-one here makes a motif of hate-mongering. Those who tried it are long banned.

Savage is making a virtue of hate.

Strangely also I notice there don't seem to be any examples anywhere of Left-wing hate radio-hosts.

I think that might be significant.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #93 of 97
3/11/11 at 5:27am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Yes...I was going to say....we are supposed to be discussing why Savage is a wanker...

You are right sir.I heard savage today on radio and he nothing but a crybaby about being rejected from visiting England.He is bias against minorities except his own kind which he is a Jew.I am sick of these jerks who listen to his bullshit that he spits out of his mouth everyday.
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post #94 of 97
3/11/11 at 5:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

You are right sir.I heard savage today on radio and he nothing but a crybaby about being rejected from visiting England.He is bias against minorities except his own kind which he is a Jew.I am sick of these jerks who listen to his bullshit that he spits out of his mouth everyday.

I didn'ae see the wee kwote youse was gettin for me....is it in ve poste?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #95 of 97
3/11/11 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I didn'ae see the wee kwote youse was gettin for me....is it in ve poste?

Are you going Scottish now?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #96 of 97
3/11/11 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

You are right sir.I heard savage today on radio and he nothing but a crybaby about being rejected from visiting England.He is bias against minorities except his own kind which he is a Jew.I am sick of these jerks who listen to his bullshit that he spits out of his mouth everyday.

Are you playing games here?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #97 of 97
3/11/11 at 7:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Are you going Scottish now?

Oh yeah...I have to vary it..... was listening to a review of some new Scottish movie about Romans in Britain as I wrote...

It doesn't seem like me and him are speaking the same language does it? I'm beginning to think he doesn't understand that I'm asking him to provide some references.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
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