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Apple's A5 CPU in iPad 2 has 512MB of RAM, same as iPhone 4 - report - Page 6

post #201 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What development tools are you talking about? The HDMI out simply mirrors whats on the screen. Developers don't need to do anything for that.

IOS 4.3 beta 1 didn't come out to developers until middle of January.

You are mixing the 2 arguments up. I said that the 9x faster GPU has the power to decode 1080p --- but Apple's own codec team probably didn't have the time to code their decoder to take advantage of the new GPU hardware to give you 1080p decode.
post #202 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

They are ALL rushing to get the tablets launched. Apple has the luxury of dropping features from the initial launch to a later date.

What features did Apple drop?

Quote:
You are mixing the 2 arguments up. I said that the 9x faster GPU has the power to decode 1080p --- but Apple's own codec team probably didn't have the time to code their decoder to take advantage of the new GPU hardware to give you 1080p decode.

The hardware has the capability to decode 1080P. But so far Apple has not implemented anything in the software that takes advantage of that capability. So for right now there is nothing specific for developers to do.

Its likely that you are jumping the gun on all of this. And that Apple will introduce some new features with iOS 5.
post #203 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What features did Apple drop?

The hardware has the capability to decode 1080P. But so far Apple has not implemented anything in the software that takes advantage of that capability. So for right now there is nothing specific for developers to do.

Its likely that you are jumping the gun on all of this. And that Apple will introduce some new features with iOS 5.

I said that Apple has the luxury of dropping software features.

You think that the lack 1080p decoding is because Apple wants to put that feature in iOS 5 --- Apple also has the option of charging wifi ipad users for upgrading to iOS 5.
post #204 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

One more thought.

Apparently, Android developers are not [as] concerned with memory management because Android provides Garbage Collection to detect, locate and free memory no longer used by the app. The iOS developer is responsible for memory management.

Many will argue that this is not an issue because modern Garbage Collection schemes are quite efficient -- and can theoretically outperform manual memory management.

I have no links/citations, but, I have read that there are periodic, noticeable performance hits with Android due to pauses/jitters related to Garbage Collection.

If GC is poorly implemented on Android, one way to compensate is to throw hardware at the problem. (In mainframe parlance: "There is no substitute for Cubic Inches").

So, it may be to support equivalent capability/performance an app on the iPad requires less RAM (and other hardware) than on Android.


I also think the PlayBook approach to addressing Flash & UI issues is to throw hardware at the problem.


IMO, this the exact opposite approach than should be used in the power/weight/battery constraints of a mobile device.

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'Zactly!

As for GC, if you are careful you can pretty much make it a non-issue. But is painful and not particularly good for programmer productivity to always be worried about GC and designing/implementing it away. Thus we usually see the naive Java application implementations with warts.
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post #205 of 264
I ain't getting me one.
post #206 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

It's what you described first, I had hundreds of thousands of created texts files, created through the years. These do not included those of the applications. I used to "rebuild" then, supposedly as a good practice to avoid fragmentation.

I do not even know how many mmore text, images and all sorts of files I have now, a lot of them are also stored in the internet. I am now in my second external disk drive (more than 1 Terrabyte) on top of the internal drive. I don't even do systematic backup because it could easily increase the size by several fold.

So, I am not sure if the issue of random storage still happens in the OSX.

CGC

Stop right now and back up!!!

Really. Stop. Back up.

Your hard drives will stop working. That's what they do. There's no hard drives never stop working. You need data on at least two drives so that when one stops working the other drive will still have your data. Hard drives stop working somewhere between the time they are first turned on, and sometime after that.

I think you confused rebuilding the desktop database with defragmenting a hard drive. Those are two different things. Rebuilding the desktop database was done in OS 9 and earlier and was a separate issue from disk fragmentation.

Disk fragmentation still happens in OS X, but under normal use, it's not a consideration. OS X automatically defragments on the fly (re-allocating files that are 20MB or less). If there's enough free space on the drive (and it's HFS+), it won't fragment at all.

Did I mention that you should back up your hard drives?

Always buy your hard drives in pairs (at least). TimeMachine is wonderful, but so are tools like Carbon Copy Cloner.
post #207 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

I said that Apple has the luxury of dropping software features.

You think that the lack 1080p decoding is because Apple wants to put that feature in iOS 5 --- Apple also has the option of charging wifi ipad users for upgrading to iOS 5.

What software features did they drop, that there's actually some evidence that they did, not just your wild conspiracy theories?

As usual, you're talking bullshit, samab.
post #208 of 264
Prediction:
iPad2 faster in real world tests than Xoom
iPad2 significantly faster in real world browsing tests once Xoom gets it's Flash enabling update, and web pages have animated advertisements everywhere. That's the only reason the Xoom appears snappy now...
post #209 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

What software features did they drop, that there's actually some evidence that they did, not just your wild conspiracy theories?

As usual, you're talking bullshit, samab.

I think that it is reasonable to consider the lack of 1080p video playing at launch (for a device with the hardware power to do so) --- a feature slip.

You can disagree with me on the merit of my argument, but don't take personal shots at me for no reason.
post #210 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

I think that it is reasonable to consider the lack of 1080p video playing at launch (for a device with the hardware power to do so) --- a feature slip.

You can disagree with me on the merit of my argument, but don't take personal shots at me for no reason.

Utter nonsense. Unless you have some evidence that 1080p video playing, which is a pointless feature, was actually planned, it's not reasonable at all to call it a feature slip. Your arguments not only don't have any merit, they aren't even arguments, just fictional claims.

And, I'm not taking personal shots. I'm just pointing out the truth that you are simply making stuff. Bullshit is the best word there is for that.
post #211 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

If you don't think that iOS can get by on less memory, just try running your mac with only 256 megs of ram (or even 512 for that matter).

My first Mac only had 1 meg of RAM - and it still works!
Now get of my lawn!

post #212 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut View Post

Stop right now and back up!!!

Really. Stop. Back up.

Your hard drives will stop working. That's what they do. There's no hard drives never stop working. You need data on at least two drives so that when one stops working the other drive will still have your data. Hard drives stop working somewhere between the time they are first turned on, and sometime after that.

I think you confused rebuilding the desktop database with defragmenting a hard drive. Those are two different things. Rebuilding the desktop database was done in OS 9 and earlier and was a separate issue from disk fragmentation.

Disk fragmentation still happens in OS X, but under normal use, it's not a consideration. OS X automatically defragments on the fly (re-allocating files that are 20MB or less). If there's enough free space on the drive (and it's HFS+), it won't fragment at all.

Did I mention that you should back up your hard drives?

Always buy your hard drives in pairs (at least). TimeMachine is wonderful, but so are tools like Carbon Copy Cloner.

No, I have not done any refragmentation or rebuilding with my new computer. I have not backed up yet though, I should do this soon. I did not have a chance to buy the extra disk yet though.

I have to systematize the folders in my two external disks first though.

CGC
post #213 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Well BS that we need to get this info from a fourth party. Further it is BS in the sense that Apple does publish many specs for the iPads but prefers to screw over the consummer with respect to this one important parameter.

RAM is very important, if Apple has stayed with 256MB the upgrade would be worthless. From the day it debuted iPad one has suffered from the lack of RAM.

Well then how much RAM is sufficient?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #214 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by darwiniandude View Post

Prediction:
iPad2 faster in real world tests than Xoom
iPad2 significantly faster in real world browsing tests once Xoom gets it's Flash enabling update, and web pages have animated advertisements everywhere. That's the only reason the Xoom appears snappy now...

I'd wager that they are both pretty fast. I'd also wager that any difference in speed is negligible anyway. I think it all boils down to preference. I'm quite pleased with the marriage between software and hardware that we all love and expect from Apple. I love the emphasis on aesthetics as well as functionality and beautiful software.

People like you and I comprehend the difference between dual core processors and flash storage. But my mom for example, doesn't give a rat's ass about those things. All she considers is what this device can do. Apple is clear about it's capabilities. You can choose from 65,000 apps - You can FaceTime, PhotoBooth, it has 10 hours of battery life, you can make movies with iMovie, record and play music with GarageBand, browse the web etc.

Apple's appeal is to a much broader audience - people just like my mom or my grandmother. Even corporations - When you hear about tablet adoptions rates in Fortune 100 companies, it's always about the iPad. Apple will go on to sell millions of these while many of their competitors will be DOA - and it's their own fault. Instead of highlighting the inherit features of their respective devices, they're too busy boasting about processor speed and HDMI ports - things the average consumer may know nothing about.
post #215 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Uh, they trumpet the new "dual core 1GHz" A5 chip on the front page of the iPad site, and list basically all of the tech specs under "Tech Specs", except RAM - probably because it's the one area from a hardware standpoint that another device (ie Xoom) clearly outdoes it. Plus the fact that Xoom can both play and output 1080p content while the iPad can digitally output 1080p but can only actually play 720p (cleverly presented by Apple, i must say).

Anyways, Apple is all about the user experience, so until Android makes some serious improvements that get it up to the level of the iTunes ecosystem, hardware is something of a moot point...

"... get it up to the level of the iTunes ecosystem " You're joking, right? iTune is the most complicated, unintuitive application I have ever used. I would buy my parents iPad if it weren't for iTunes. Apple needs to figure a way to do without this dinosaur.
post #216 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterliaw@yahoo.com View Post

"... get it up to the level of the iTunes ecosystem " You're joking, right? iTune is the most complicated, unintuitive application I have ever used. I would buy my parents iPad if it weren't for iTunes. Apple needs to figure a way to do without this dinosaur.

Sounds like you need smarter parents. My grandmother handles iTunes with ease.
post #217 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

I said that Apple has the luxury of dropping software features.

You think that the lack 1080p decoding is because Apple wants to put that feature in iOS 5 --- Apple also has the option of charging wifi ipad users for upgrading to iOS 5.

Where are you coming up with that? It was long ago dispelled that the paid upgrades were tied to carrier contracts.
post #218 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by darwiniandude View Post

Prediction:
iPad2 faster in real world tests than Xoom
iPad2 significantly faster in real world browsing tests once Xoom gets it's Flash enabling update, and web pages have animated advertisements everywhere. That's the only reason the Xoom appears snappy now...

You forgot to mention the reduced battery life once the Xoom gets Flash.
post #219 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterliaw@yahoo.com View Post

"... get it up to the level of the iTunes ecosystem " You're joking, right? iTune is the most complicated, unintuitive application I have ever used. I would buy my parents iPad if it weren't for iTunes. Apple needs to figure a way to do without this dinosaur.

Wow. What are you comparing iTunes to?
post #220 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

Where are you coming up with that? It was long ago dispelled that the paid upgrades were tied to carrier contracts.

It's just another of his brazen lies.
post #221 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

My first Mac only had 1 meg of RAM - and it still works!
Now get of my lawn!


Yep. I remember buying a IIsi which came with 2 MB (I upgraded to 17). Back in the days of 20 MB hard disks (for $400 or so).
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #222 of 264
Why would there be a feature slip to a feature that has no content. Where does the 1080P content come from? Apple is primarily concerned with iTunes which does not yet stream 1080P content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

I think that it is reasonable to consider the lack of 1080p video playing at launch (for a device with the hardware power to do so) --- a feature slip.
post #223 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Yes, that must be it --- when the Playbook has 948mb of freemem, when their entire UI is flash.

Well exactly. You keep saying things that sound reasonable to you but have lots of holes in them in reality.

Everything was shut down at that system status screen. No Flash running by my guess. So we get confirmation that QNX is the lean embedded OS that it is when it isn't doing modern GUI work. No problems there.

The thing you missed is that Flash runs in it's own container within the spawning process. No containers requesting Flash, no Flash running. Since Flash runs in each and every container individually, it will eat memory prodigiously and with significant redundancy. Meaning the Playbook needs more memory just to say in business from all the repeated Flash GUI overhead.
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post #224 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Well exactly. You keep saying things that sound reasonable to you but have lots of holes in them in reality.

Everything was shut down at that system status screen. No Flash running by my guess. So we get confirmation that QNX is the lean embedded OS that it is when it isn't doing modern GUI work. No problems there.

The thing you missed is that Flash runs in it's own container within the spawning process. No containers requesting Flash, no Flash running. Since Flash runs in each and every container individually, it will eat memory prodigiously and with significant redundancy. Meaning the Playbook needs more memory just to say in business from all the repeated Flash GUI overhead.

Did you even watch the video?

The following apps were running ATP Tennis (which is a flash app), the game Machinarium (which is a flash-based game), Music player, Camera app, Calender app, and BBM app. There weren't any ILM trickery in the video editing --- when he flipped over the Playbook to film the back of the tablet, his fingers mistakenly activated the system info screen (which is top bazel swipe down).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAXPGwChLGw
post #225 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

Where are you coming up with that? It was long ago dispelled that the paid upgrades were tied to carrier contracts.

It may be a one-off for the original ipad to get the 4.2 upgrade for free.
post #226 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

It's just another of his brazen lies.

Did I ever state that Apple would charge for the update? No. I said they have that option.
post #227 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Why would there be a feature slip to a feature that has no content. Where does the 1080P content come from? Apple is primarily concerned with iTunes which does not yet stream 1080P content.

Then maybe Apple shouldn't put in an extra expensive GPU that is 9x faster --- and use that cash saved to put in a gig of RAM on the ipad2.
post #228 of 264
Because you refuse to accept the fact that Apple has more to come. There is still iOS 5 and the next iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Then maybe Apple shouldn't put in an extra expensive GPU that is 9x faster --- and use that cash saved to put in a gig of RAM on the ipad2.
post #229 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Because you refuse to accept the fact that Apple has more to come. There is still iOS 5 and the next iPhone.

I didn't refuse to accept anything. Apple has a 1 year product cycle and you are telling me to expect to buy the ipad2 and have at least 1/3 of its 12 month life to have a sub-par operating system.

Why can't Apple release iOS 5 next week with the ipad2 and the iphone 5 getting iOS 5.2 in June 2011?
post #230 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Did you even watch the video?

The following apps were running ATP Tennis (which is a flash app), the game Machinarium (which is a flash-based game), Music player, Camera app, Calender app, and BBM app. There weren't any ILM trickery in the video editing --- when he flipped over the Playbook to film the back of the tablet, his fingers mistakenly activated the system info screen (which is top bazel swipe down).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAXPGwChLGw

Yes, to the best of my observation it appears they all were shut down during the photo-snapping, not just a simple extra reporting app being started. I cannot believe you think an OS plus those 6 GUI based apps would only consume 76MB. The Flash runtime is larger than that.

That's just typical you not thinking things through.
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post #231 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Did I ever state that Apple would charge for the update? No. I said they have that option.

Well based on that and following your logic I have the option to declare your potential as topped out somewhere around the 3rd grade.

Does that make any sense in the real world? No. Its made up BS. Just like your post was, even though both of us have the proverbial grain of truth to stand on and cite. So stop with the faux disinformation making-stuff-up games, it's childish.
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post #232 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Yes, to the best of my observation it appears they all were shut down during the photo-snapping, not just a simple extra reporting app being started. I cannot believe you think an OS plus those 6 GUI based apps would only consume 76MB. The Flash runtime is larger than that.

That's just typical you not thinking things through.

I never claimed that the whole thing plus 6 apps running consumed 76mb. I said that the operating system took 76mb. Even if AIR apps takes larger amount of space --- it means what? The Playbook operating system is 1/2 the size as iOS with zero apps running. With 6 apps running all live at the same time, it means each Playbook app would have to be 10mb larger than the iOS equivalent so that the memory footprint to even out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Well based on that and following your logic I have the option to declare your potential as topped out somewhere around the 3rd grade.

Does that make any sense in the real world? No. Its made up BS. Just like your post was, even though both of us have the proverbial grain of truth to stand on and cite. So stop with the faux disinformation making-stuff-up games, it's childish.

What is BS? BS is claiming that a major iOS upgrade HAS to be released in June. Why can't iOS 5 be released next week with the ipad2 and the iphone5 gets iOS 5.2.
post #233 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Why can't Apple release iOS 5 next week with the ipad2 and the iphone 5 getting iOS 5.2 in June 2011?

1. It's not done.
2. Developers have had zero time to make apps for it.

Seriously, think about things before you say them.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #234 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Why can't Apple release iOS 5 next week with the ipad2 and the iphone 5 getting iOS 5.2 in June 2011?

They could but it would be unlikely. Apple has not released a single iOS 5 developer seed.

It is 99.9999% certain that they would let developers see the new operating system before they release it to the general public. After all, they want developers to create new apps/update existing apps and take advantage of the new features so when it does go live to Joe Consumer, there are many appealing offerings in the App Store.
post #235 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

1. It's not done.
2. Developers have had zero time to make apps for it.

Seriously, think about things before you say them.

I did think about it --- that's why I originally said that it looks like Apple has been rushing the ipad2. That's why I had been talking about the lack of third party developers demo'ing apps that take advantage of the increased hardware on stage last week. That's why I had been talking about possible feature slip.
post #236 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

I did think about it --- that's why I originally said that it looks like Apple has been rushing the ipad2. That's why I had been talking about the lack of third party developers demo'ing apps that take advantage of the increased hardware on stage last week. That's why I had been talking about possible feature slip.

Yeah, you thought about it and made it up, Bravo. But consistent with what you have been doing on the boards over the past several months.
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post #237 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

I never claimed that the whole thing plus 6 apps running consumed 76mb. I said that the operating system took 76mb.

OK. [i LOVE doing this!!!] In your own words homey...

Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The RIM Playbook showed 948mb of freemem --- last 30 second of video. The operating system took 1024-948=76mb of memory.

Well yes you did say the OS took 76MB, but your math said that was the only thing using memory!!!

I don't know how you will try to wriggle out of that one, you tied yourself up pretty good. And it makes most of your premise for the next statement invalid.

Quote:
Even if AIR apps takes larger amount of space --- it means what? The Playbook operating system is 1/2 the size as iOS with zero apps running. With 6 apps running all live at the same time, it means each Playbook app would have to be 10mb larger than the iOS equivalent so that the memory footprint to even out.

Again with the only knowing half the story, on top of the invalid premise. iOS uses a central GUI service in the OS. That means the OS memory footprint itself shoulders the load for all the common API provided GUI graphics. This is universally known as an efficient way to do software: write once, use many. And quite a bit of the volume isn't code bloat, it is the actual graphics elements that need to be combined. Elements that only ever need to be in memory anywhere once.

AIR on the other hand pastes it's whole self into every application processes that makes a request of the Flash GUI services. That's known as: write once, duplicate endlessly. Every instantiation of the GUI adds it's full weight again to the overall memory requirements of the machine. Every line of AIR GUI machine code, duplicated in every process. Every API-based GUI graphic, duplicated in every process.

I know you don't want to do that math, but everyone else can see the pattern pretty easily.


Quote:
What is BS? BS is claiming that a major iOS upgrade HAS to be released in June. Why can't iOS 5 be released next week with the ipad2 and the iphone5 gets iOS 5.2.

No the BS is claiming Apple may charge for iOS 5. But now I will call BS on your personal schedule for Apple despite it being quite well understood that Apple has a one year cycle on iOS at the Apple Dev Conference and iPhone in June.

New desktops and laptops have NEVER come with an understanding that a new version requires a new base OS release, for any OS or hardware vendor. What suddenly makes you think you have the moral authority to call out a corporation for not meeting your personal schedule that no company has previously met ever? It's just another example of you playing fast and loose with the facts so you can make negative comments that appear to have a kernel of truth in them. Too bad for you that others of us can recognize your attempted manipulations.
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post #238 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Though Apple has not officially disclosed how much RAM is found in the iPad 2, a Korean semiconductor analyst has claimed to know that the new A5 processor has 512MB of memory.

Responding to a query about the amount of RAM in the iPad 2, analyst Kakeun Lee claimed on Twitter (via Google Translate) that the new iPad will double the amount of RAM in last year's model. He also revealed that the new A5 processor features LPDDR2 memory, which is a speed boost from the LPDDR1 RAM in the first-generation iPad.

If true, the inclusion of 512MB of RAM confirms reports that the iPad 2 would pack the same amount of memory as the iPhone 4. Analyst Ming-Chi Kuo of Concord Securities also told AppleInsider that the RAM in the iPad 2 would run at a higher clock speed of 1,066MHz for greater memory bandwidth than the 800MHz memory in the iPhone 4.

Kuo also indicated back in January that the iPad 2 would have LPDDR2 RAM at a speed of 1,066MHz, corroborating Lee's more recent claims. Kuo said the memory would be supplied by both Samsung and Hynix.

512MB of RAM would be equal to the amount found in the iPhone 4, released last June. The amount of RAM supposedly in the new iPad is also half of the 1GB found in the Android-powered Motorola Xoom.

Apple prefers to avoid detailing technical specifications of its devices, instead focusing on features and usability. But the company did reveal on Wednesday that the new A5 processor is a custom-designed 1GHz dual-core chip with the same low power consumption as last year's A4.

The report also contradicts what a representative in London demoing the iPad 2 reportedly told Gizmodo: that the new iPad has the same 256MB of RAM as last year's model. However, the site was then told by another public relations person that they couldn't confirm how much RAM is in the new A5 processor.

The new iPad has 1 Gig of memory.
post #239 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

OK. [i LOVE doing this!!!]
I know you don't want to do that math, but everyone else can see the pattern pretty easily.

No the BS is claiming Apple may charge for iOS 5. But now I will call BS on your personal schedule for Apple despite it being quite well understood that Apple has a one year cycle on iOS at the Apple Dev Conference and iPhone in June.

The math is that in real life demo, nobody is complaining about the performance of the Playbook. The only complaining is that the tbs.com flash website was stutterly --- when there were 3-4 other apps (big apps, not widgets) actually running in the background and the Playbook is only operating on a single core. If that's because RIM threw hardware into the Playbook because of Flash UI's big memory problem --- then Apple is going to be truly screwed because RIM just bought TAT to make all native UI widgets in C++ for the next generation of blackberries.

It's not without precedent that Apple had treat iOS updates differently for different devices.
post #240 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Is 512MB enough? There is never enough memory if you are a developer, by definition. I wouldn't compare the 512MB to 1GB on a Xoom very directly though. That Xoom is running a robust JVM behind everything, and that means it is running a copy of that JVM in every process. That is a verified Metric Shitload of memory requirement that the app developers can never use.

Thank you!!!! Please repeat this ad nauseum in every thread that e-skater and wizzy try to make their sad case for iOS needing the same RAM as Droid.

PS: AI - make this a Sticky!
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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