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post #81 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

First off, for what it is, the ipad and ipad 2 are very cool, that said, is anyone else alarmed about how fast people seem to be saying that this is the new computing? these "tablet and smartphones will kill PC" talk frighten me, there is no openness on these devices: can you run browser addins like noscript or adblock on android or IOS? can you change the default web browser? the default email client?

The lock peice also bugs me. if I buyu hardware, I dont want to be told what network it can or cannot connect to arbitrarily, I dont want my vendor or acrrier blocking updates and such...imagine if Comcast could say "we dont want you to have feature x of OSX or Windows 7" and they could force you to not have that piece, that would never stand, yet we take it in phones and tablets? why?

get a dell and install linux on it. better yet, build your own. there will probably always be pc parts. those of us whose majority of time is spent using computers to make a living actually like the apple ecosystemit allows us to do our work rather than tinker with add-ons, hacks, and (dare i say) playing games.
post #82 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

A tribute to INXS

Its the end of the World (Microsoft)
as we know it
and I Feeeeeeel fine!

yipeeee

Because personal computer sales in 2012 are expected to be only 13% increase instead of previously expected 14%...?

Ah, analysts. Don't you love 'em...
post #83 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

And for those not having a computer yet, they can buy a used, low end notebook that has XP service pack 3, or Vista, or Win 7 for about $200-250, and use that, because they all will accept iTunes 10.2, which is needed for iOS 4.3.

So we rely on Microsoft to run our Apple iPads...oh the irony
Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
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post #84 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

For how much longer?

Unless Apple decides to stop producing desktops and laptops, I would expect them to keep iPad dependent on PC. They still want people to purchase their computers as well, don't they?
post #85 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by acslater017 View Post

I was super impressed by the new iPad GargeBand - I'll make a final judgement when I see it in person, but it looks great. It's a symbol of the many advantages the iPad has over PCs. Is the iOS GarageBand as purely powerful as the one in iLife? Probably not. But can a notebook turn into a virtual drumset or turntable with touch controls? Nope!

Maybe I'm being shortsighted, but it would be REALLY cool to use the iPad as a user input device for professional level apps. For example, if my iPad and Mac Pro are on the same network, I can tell the Mac Pro what to do through my iPad. Cutting clips in Final Cut Pro, for example, would be so much more fun and easy with touch controls. Then all of the heavy rendering and moving around of gigabytes of files is done by the Mac Pro. This would also allow you to do these complex tasks on the road, without bringing your computer everywhere.

What do you guys think

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm sure a lot of this is going to happen. I already use my iPad with Photoshop as an extra WiFi monitor. I can even draw on the iPad screen in PS. There are apps that allow you to do work on files such as CAD (from Autodesk) and bring them in and out of the main program. IMovie is a good example of what we'll see in movie editing.

I was just disappointed that they didn't bring iPhoto to the iPad 2 (yet!). Not that I use it, but it would have been another good example as iMovie and GarageBand are.

I would have loved it if they brought Aperture over. Maybe someday. It would spur Adobe to get Lightroom there as well, though I do believe they are investigating that now.

This is happening now! Only, it isn't restricted to any particular platform but to any with an Internet connection. I recently upgraded my Mathematica (http://www.wolfram.com) license to version 8. It now has two distinct input modes, one being the traditional programmable mode that I employ, the other, an upgrade to what was previously available where expressions are evaluated immediately. This second mode however, was redesigned to look and feel like this:

http://www.wolframalpha.com

I am sure that Wolfram Alpha has the full Mathematica (symbolic) engine behind it but without the programming mode or ability for me to run my own data files (there is quite a bit of curated data available however). Should Wolfram ever take the step of allowing my own scripts to run (easily written on an iPad) and upload data (even very small sets), then my input device, with the iPad being no less capable than any computer, would be a window on processes running on better computational hardware than the best of desktop systems. No one would need more than an iPad to do this.

This practice will become a big industry I believe.

All the best.
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post #86 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bytorx1 View Post

NO IT'S NOT! it's a mobile device but NOT a PC/Computer etc.
do not mis categorize the iPAd and what it does and how it does it.

Shouting match!

The iPad IS a computer - what planet are you on?

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post #87 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

First off, for what it is, the ipad and ipad 2 are very cool, that said, is anyone else alarmed about how fast people seem to be saying that this is the new computing? these "tablet and smartphones will kill PC" talk frighten me, there is no openness on these devices: can you run browser addins like noscript or adblock on android or IOS? can you change the default web browser? the default email client?


Umhave you used an ipad / iphone? A quick check on iTunes showed over 50 alternative browsers are available, and around 20 email clients. The default is whichever you use.

And the lack of openness is a good thing - we're already seeing a plethora of viruses on the Android OS due to it's openness.
post #88 of 115
Gruber has a really great little essay on this subject today, called "The Chair." It's about the significance of the staging of the iPad event, and how it pertains to the PC vs. tablet question. Don't miss it; here's a quote:

"But there are other things any competitor could copy, easily, but seemingly don’t even understand that they should, because such things aren’t technical. Take that chair. The on-stage demos of the iPad aren’t conducted at a table or a lectern. They’re conducted sitting in an armchair. That conveys something about the feel of the iPad before its screen is even turned on. Comfortable, emotional, simple, elegant. How it feels is the entirety of the iPad’s appeal."

"It’s a shame, almost, that we squandered the term “personal computer” 30 years ago.*★"

http://daringfireball.net/
post #89 of 115
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
And for those not having a computer yet, they can buy a used, low end notebook that has XP service pack 3, or Vista, or Win 7 for about $200-250, and use that, because they all will accept iTunes 10.2, which is needed for iOS 4.3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post

So we rely on Microsoft to run our Apple iPads...oh the irony

To me the irony is that Apple won't even support Leopard on this, let alone Tiger (requires SL 10.5.8 as I recall), yet took the time to develop code that covers not only Win 7 and Vista (now, what, 5 years old?) but even XP which is 10!

This is kind of pissy, but very savvy. Apple's always done more to "encourage" their base to upgrade than MS ("encourage" as in, "if you don't re-up with new gear or a new OS or other software, sorry, but you can't use our latest other dohickeys). MS has kept the ability to run lots of old programs and legacy devices longer than Apple not because they want to, rather in deference to pressure from their many Enterprise and SMB customers who've stabilized their internal software on "old reliable" computers.

.......Note: This is a problem which Apple (in some ways regrettably for them) doesn't have - but their plan for re-entering the Enterprise market now rests solidly on iOS devices.
.......The new business class Apple Store genius access category is another early step into what will be - I think - Apple's first really successful push into businesses of all sizes and industries.


And it's a well-known fact that Mac users are much more active software purchasers than Windows users - we're just a more enthusiast class and we're willing to pay to enthuse. And willing to let Apple lead us to renew our hardware and software more often, even though our hardware lasts longer and our programs are generally more stable.

Which, incidentally is what Google, to its chagrin, is discovering about its Android users. They're cheap. And they buy a fraction of the apps iDevice users do. That is, there are some gearheads (many of whom troll here) that like the more ways they can twiddle the thing and feel more "under the hood" about it, but most droid users are gonna mostly use whatever's on it out of the box, or go after free to 99 cent apps only. A majority market share does not always turn out to be the most successful business plan in the end.

And Apple users do get something out of it: cleaner, leaner, more modern OS and program code and less geeky configuration of our growing Apple eco-system bits and pieces because there's fewer variables for developers to account for.

But it is ironic. Because it blatantly shows another side of the "Apple Tax" - and only you can decide if you're getting full value for paying it.

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post #90 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

A long time. At the end of the day you still need a pc because the ipads storage is so small. Its great for films but if you want to keep a digital film collection you need 1tb not 64gb! And that would just make it to thick.

As the report says though, they still predict 10% growth which is more than inflation. Apple so far hasn't done anything to hurt pcs they've just added additional revenue streams and increased the amount people will pay for these devices.

I would be hard pressed to recommend anybody keeping such a large digital film collection on any single machine. Especially in this mobile age.

There is no need to do so now and soon with the likes of Apple's Cloud service coming even more reason not to. For that, we will be able to easily stream our content either from North Carolina, our homes, our work place and or any other off site location.

Heck, why not from a WiFi drive sitting next to you.

As for you last comment, and as Steve has said more than a couple of times, "They (and IMO you as well), just don't get it."
post #91 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple's iPad 'redefining' computing

Fortunately, it only redefines reading electronic materials, web browsing, some basic productivity activities and gaming.
I was kinda scared of the fact professionals at Gartner could have started on writing things like that... Fortunately, only professionals at AppleOutsider can not tell web browsing from computing.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #92 of 115
Quote:
"PCs are going to be like trucks," he said, noting that they will still be around, but will represent a smaller number of people.

Don't see why people are so mad about this. Apple isn't threatening your precious Windows gaming tower or Linux code-box. The only computers this is going to "kill" are, honestly, the computers of people who probably really didn't need a full-fledged one in the first place.

Hate to stereotype - okay, no I don't - but you know when you see an elderly person trying to buy a computer? They just want something that will let them talk to the grandkids, see the latest pictures of them, maybe do that "Sky-Pee" thing they've heard about, and if they're more on the savvy side, they'll Facebook, Tweet, or play some casual games. They never really needed a PC to start with. The iPad is much more like what they need.

Having these types of users transition over to an iPad in no way harms the basement-dwelling PC gamer* or neckbearded Linux zealot** that seems to froth angrily at the mouth whenever the inverse relationship between iPad and PC sales is pointed out.

* Not implying that all PC gamers fit that stereotype, but the ones who complain the loudest sure seem to

** Totally implying that all Linux zealots are a bunch of neckbeards***

*** Or not

post #93 of 115
it's not redefining anything. the ipad is just over-hyped right now because the masses are morons.

tablets in general are rather pointless and whatever success android or webos tablets have are a result of over-hyped nonsense as well
post #94 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Fortunately, it only redefines reading electronic materials, web browsing, some basic productivity activities and gaming.
I was kinda scared of the fact professionals at Gartner could have started on writing things like that... Fortunately, only professionals at AppleOutsider can not tell web browsing from computing.

I know, they (we) can't even tell making music or painting or watching videos anywhere from computing.
post #95 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Honestly, most people don't care. And guess what, it doesn't matter. People who want what you do will continue to use a traditional computer for most of what they do, and most others will not.

There's been a big mistake in understanding what most people want and need. They don't want or need something that's very open. They do like cell phones, closed or not. Android doesn't sell because it's thought to be open, but merely because there are so many manufacturers with so many phone models. Otherwise, so what?

Mel, I may have diagreed with you in the past, but you nailed that down tight. To expand on your thought just a titch, the average user (Let's use the TAU shorthand here) doesn't get the constant harping on specs or or features, unless it impacts performance or experience with the device. The whole drive behind uptake of the iPad has very little to do with " drinking the Koolaid" or the "RDF" (note I didn't dismiss those entirely however) but everything to do with experience. How smoothly the interface operates how easy it is to do things. TAU just wants it to work easily and simply, without too much fuss and bother - which is why so many just use their tradition PC for email and internet and very little else. Almost the polar opposite of the usual geek - and why tech blogs are totally outraged that the iPad would enjoy so much popularity, that TAU would want to be emprisoned in a "walled garden" or limited by a "curated" platform.

Google actively pursued getting the handset makers and carriers to switch to Android on their handheld devices, which they were happy to do, as it off-loaded R&D and development for the OS and applications from their budgets and was essentially free*. If they felt they needed a differentiation form other Android devices they applied a simply GUI overlay and pushed it out the door. It could have been any other free mobile OS and they would have behaved the same. It is pure opportunism by them and the result as you so correctly called out was based on that opportunism, not on a superior user experience.

That being said, I fully anticipate Android to mine well down into the lower reaches of the feature phone segment until their are only a few if any cell phones that could not be called (by the current very flexible and non-defined standards) "smartphones". Google will plow the field wide and long for the "smartphone" class and Apple will cherry-pick the best and most profitable parts of that field and leave the rest for Android, WebOS and WP7 to divvy up between themselves.
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post #96 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Then you don't know what a computer is. This does the same things a more conventional computer does in its short existence. I do writing, drawing, painting, CAD, photo, and now video editing, spreadsheets, database work, and other things.

Oh, yes, it also does the media consumption that we've been relying on our "computers" for all these years.

Spare me. what ever. Every one wants the ipad to be a computer like a laptop etc, if that is the case then buy a laptop - Apple is not looking to replace or
kill it's laptop sales and if you have any common sense you'd read that the iPad/iPod/iPhone REQUIRE a PC/Mac to maintain / sync and update the iPad which is a DEVICE!.
post #97 of 115
It is always interesting to see how this impacts, especially among the technology illuminati. There is a huge struggle happening where those who have wedded the definition of computer with physical configuration and abstracted input, (like chronster's comment above seems to indicate) cannot wrap their heads around a simple tablet/slate touch-driven device being "powerful enough" or not having [insert favored spec/feature here] and thus failing to qualify as a "PC" or computing device. The point has been made quite successfully above and in many other threads here that the iPad, par example, is much more capable than merely a consumption device. And will continue to expand it's capacity to do more things. The trap Apple (and others) will have to be wary of is over-complicating the touch interface. The wrong combination of gestures will discourage use, and lead to consumer dissatisfaction.

But it is a source of constant amusement to me to watch as so many technorati, who have invested so much of themselves into mastering the existing technologies, struggle in denial as TAU embraces a new and easier way of doing things. Unbound by technology convention TAU simply "gets it", while the "enlightened" howl protests and use unattractive terms like "morons" and "unwashed masses" to reflect disparagingly on those who pragmatically embrace the paradigm shift.

EDIT: Case in point -
Quote:
Spare me. what ever. Every one wants the ipad to be a computer like a laptop etc, if that is the case then buy a laptop - Apple is not looking to replace or
kill it's laptop sales and if you have any common sense you'd read that the iPad/iPod/iPhone REQUIRE a PC/Mac to maintain / sync and update the iPad which is a DEVICE!.

by bytorx1.

So bytorx1, no. Everyone DOESN'T want the iPad to be like a laptop or desktop. They want it to be better, easier and simpler. If it is (eventually) more powerful - great. You have successfully ignored the use descriptions that roll out in these discussions. "Instant-on", "easier to use than a laptop", "better to carry around", "simpler more direct interface". NO no one wants the iPad to be as inconvenient or painfully abstract to use as a laptop or desktop.
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post #98 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

It is always interesting to see how this impacts, especially among the technology illuminati. There is a huge struggle happening where those who have wedded the definition of computer with physical configuration and abstracted input, (like chronster's comment above seems to indicate) cannot wrap their heads around a simple tablet/slate touch-driven device being "powerful enough" or not having [insert favored spec/feature here] and thus failing to qualify as a "PC" or computing device. The point has been made quite successfully above and in many other threads here that the iPad, par example, is much more capable than merely a consumption device. And will continue to expand it's capacity to do more things. The trap Apple (and others) will have to be wary of is over-complicating the touch interface. The wrong combination of gestures will discourage use, and lead to consumer dissatisfaction.

But it is a source of constant amusement to me to watch as so many technorati, who have invested so much of themselves into mastering the existing technologies, struggle in denial as TAU embraces a new and easier way of doing things. Unbound by technology convention TAU simply "gets it", while the "enlightened" howl protests and use unattractive terms like "morons" and "unwashed masses" to reflect disparagingly on those who pragmatically embrace the paradigm shift.

EDIT: Case in point - by bytorx1.

So bytorx1, no. Everyone DOESN'T want the iPad to be like a laptop or desktop. They want it to be better, easier and simpler. If it is (eventually) more powerful - great. You have successfully ignored the use descriptions that roll out in these discussions. "Instant-on", "easier to use than a laptop", "better to carry around", "simpler more direct interface". NO no one wants the iPad to be as inconvenient or painfully abstract to use as a laptop or desktop.


+++ QFT

You nailed two of the trifecta:

illuminati; technorati; -- to that I would add: effeterati.

.
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post #99 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

Guys, guys, the answer's already been given (by SPJ himself, already):

The iPad is a mobile POST-PC.

As a few like to say around here, "there, I fixed it for you."

You haven't, because the issue isn't whether this is a PC, it's whether it's a computer.

Interestingly enough, in an article today, or yesterday, Gruber said that it was too bad that 30 years ago the term "personal computer" was wasted, because he considers the iPad to be the first true one. I kind of agree.
post #100 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

A long time. At the end of the day you still need a pc because the ipads storage is so small. Its great for films but if you want to keep a digital film collection you need 1tb not 64gb! And that would just make it to thick.

As the report says though, they still predict 10% growth which is more than inflation. Apple so far hasn't done anything to hurt pcs they've just added additional revenue streams and increased the amount people will pay for these devices.

I'm not so sure about that. The size of the storage doesn't seem to be much of a problem. The apps are smaller, in general, and there are several devices that allow you to add and take data from the iPad, no computer needed. It's just OS upgrades that are a problem, and that doesn't happen all that often. But as I mentioned, you can buy a cheap, used PC for a couple of hundred bucks, and as long as it will run iTunes, you're set. That's not much different than buying a backup device, or a NAS, or RAID.
post #101 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

The term personal computer was in use, but so was microcomputer, to describe the same thing. If IBM's marketing department had decided to call their product the IBM-MC, we'd probably be arguing now about what is what is not an MC. It's all so arbitrary, but people do like to argue.

Microcomputer was used before personal computer. That was when they were so limited in what they could do, that they were mostly for hobbyists. Once the Commodore, the Atari, the Apple and a few others came out, they began to be called personal computers.

IBM trademarked "Pc" for their computer line.
post #102 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Unless Apple decides to stop producing desktops and laptops, I would expect them to keep iPad dependent on PC. They still want people to purchase their computers as well, don't they?

I'm not sure what Apple's thinking in this area is. One thing I know I wouldn't want to do is to download the yearly 700 MB plus size OS upgrades over the air, or some of the big games I have, or some other large apps. I would hate to be syncing all of this over the air. So we need a real wire for best performance. Apple could supply that, but they aren't, so far. So we need a computer for now.
post #103 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

To me the irony is that Apple won't even support Leopard on this, let alone Tiger (requires SL 10.5.8 as I recall), yet took the time to develop code that covers not only Win 7 and Vista (now, what, 5 years old?) but even XP which is 10!

This is kind of pissy, but very savvy. Apple's always done more to "encourage" their base to upgrade than MS ("encourage" as in, "if you don't re-up with new gear or a new OS or other software, sorry, but you can't use our latest other dohickeys). MS has kept the ability to run lots of old programs and legacy devices longer than Apple not because they want to, rather in deference to pressure from their many Enterprise and SMB customers who've stabilized their internal software on "old reliable" computers.

.......Note: This is a problem which Apple (in some ways regrettably for them) doesn't have - but their plan for re-entering the Enterprise market now rests solidly on iOS devices.
.......The new business class Apple Store genius access category is another early step into what will be - I think - Apple's first really successful push into businesses of all sizes and industries.


And it's a well-known fact that Mac users are much more active software purchasers than Windows users - we're just a more enthusiast class and we're willing to pay to enthuse. And willing to let Apple lead us to renew our hardware and software more often, even though our hardware lasts longer and our programs are generally more stable.

Which, incidentally is what Google, to its chagrin, is discovering about its Android users. They're cheap. And they buy a fraction of the apps iDevice users do. That is, there are some gearheads (many of whom troll here) that like the more ways they can twiddle the thing and feel more "under the hood" about it, but most droid users are gonna mostly use whatever's on it out of the box, or go after free to 99 cent apps only. A majority market share does not always turn out to be the most successful business plan in the end.

And Apple users do get something out of it: cleaner, leaner, more modern OS and program code and less geeky configuration of our growing Apple eco-system bits and pieces because there's fewer variables for developers to account for.

But it is ironic. Because it blatantly shows another side of the "Apple Tax" - and only you can decide if you're getting full value for paying it.

10.5.8 IS leopard. SL is 10.6.

It's true that Apple product purchasers are more willing to buy more software, and that's a good thing.
post #104 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Fortunately, it only redefines reading electronic materials, web browsing, some basic productivity activities and gaming.
I was kinda scared of the fact professionals at Gartner could have started on writing things like that... Fortunately, only professionals at AppleOutsider can not tell web browsing from computing.

Fortunately, your understanding of this differs from the estimated business this year which are estimated to be buying 10 million iPads for their use.
post #105 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

Mel, I may have diagreed with you in the past, but you nailed that down tight. To expand on your thought just a titch, the average user (Let's use the TAU shorthand here) doesn't get the constant harping on specs or or features, unless it impacts performance or experience with the device. The whole drive behind uptake of the iPad has very little to do with " drinking the Koolaid" or the "RDF" (note I didn't dismiss those entirely however) but everything to do with experience. How smoothly the interface operates how easy it is to do things. TAU just wants it to work easily and simply, without too much fuss and bother - which is why so many just use their tradition PC for email and internet and very little else. Almost the polar opposite of the usual geek - and why tech blogs are totally outraged that the iPad would enjoy so much popularity, that TAU would want to be emprisoned in a "walled garden" or limited by a "curated" platform.

Google actively pursued getting the handset makers and carriers to switch to Android on their handheld devices, which they were happy to do, as it off-loaded R&D and development for the OS and applications from their budgets and was essentially free*. If they felt they needed a differentiation form other Android devices they applied a simply GUI overlay and pushed it out the door. It could have been any other free mobile OS and they would have behaved the same. It is pure opportunism by them and the result as you so correctly called out was based on that opportunism, not on a superior user experience.

That being said, I fully anticipate Android to mine well down into the lower reaches of the feature phone segment until their are only a few if any cell phones that could not be called (by the current very flexible and non-defined standards) "smartphones". Google will plow the field wide and long for the "smartphone" class and Apple will cherry-pick the best and most profitable parts of that field and leave the rest for Android, WebOS and WP7 to divvy up between themselves.

Sure, I agree with that. When I was thinking about getting an iPad right after the event last January, I thought it would be nice, and fun to use. When I got mine, I saw that I was right. But the more I used it, the more involved I became with it. Now, I use it more than my Mac Pro. Most of my forum posting has been done from my iPad for several months. The only thing I wish for is that Apple make the darned number select keys smaller, and more to the bottom, as I tend to hit them.

With the 3GS selling for $49 on contract, the price is pretty good. And the ironic part of it is that that now 20 month old phone is still getting it's OS upgraded when many Android phones that just came out won't.

At some point, pretty much all phones will be smartphones.
post #106 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bytorx1 View Post

Spare me. what ever. Every one wants the ipad to be a computer like a laptop etc, if that is the case then buy a laptop - Apple is not looking to replace or
kill it's laptop sales and if you have any common sense you'd read that the iPad/iPod/iPhone REQUIRE a PC/Mac to maintain / sync and update the iPad which is a DEVICE!.

Spare you? Ok!

But you and some others fail to see that computers are computers if they do similar things. Is a personal computer not a computer because it can't do what a mainframe can? Of course not.

And just because they need to be connected to ANOTHER computer to do a few things, upon occasion, doesn't detract from the fact that they are computers.

Really, you're just playing with semantics. It's the old idea of: "a rose by any other name smells just as sweet". Not an exact quote probably. But the idea is there. So you can call it whatever you like. That doesn't change what it does, and that's computing.
post #107 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Spare you? Ok!

But you and some others fail to see that computers are computers if they do similar things. Is a personal computer not a computer because it can't do what a mainframe can? Of course not.

And just because they need to be connected to ANOTHER computer to do a few things, upon occasion, doesn't detract from the fact that they are computers.

Really, you're just playing with semantics. It's the old idea of: "a rose by any other name smells just as sweet". Not an exact quote probably. But the idea is there. So you can call it whatever you like. That doesn't change what it does, and that's computing.

...and the term personal computer was coined in the first place so that the masses who were taking an interest in owning one (and who now are buying the iPad) could be confident that they were buying an actual computer.

The iPad as a computer is post-PC and is re-defining computing, just as the adoption of microprocessors and the term personal computer did all those years ago.
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post #108 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

...and the term personal computer was coined in the first place so that the masses who were taking an interest in owning one (and who now are buying the iPad) could be confident that they were buying an actual computer.

The iPad as a computer is post-PC and is re-defining computing, just as the adoption of microprocessors and the term personal computer did all those years ago.

That's quite true, and it's still a computer, no matter what some want to call it. We can say it's a device, whatever that's supposed to mean. We can call it other things, but so what, it's still a computer.

It's just a different kind of computer. Just as mini computers were laughed at at first, and then microcomputers. Even our smartphones are computers. I don't understand why some people have problems accepting this.
post #109 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's quite true, and it's still a computer, no matter what some want to call it. We can say it's a device, whatever that's supposed to mean. We can call it other things, but so what, it's still a computer.

It's just a different kind of computer. Just as mini computers were laughed at at first, and then microcomputers. Even our smartphones are computers. I don't understand why some people have problems accepting this.

This could well be a generational phenomenon. Those of us who are pre-PC in age would understand...
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post #110 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

This could well be a generational phenomenon. Those of us who are pre-PC in age would understand...

It's possible, but I detect some other vibe from the people who don't want to accept it. And it may be the older generation, er, myself excepted of course, who are the worst.

People have a lot invested in the technology they grew up with, and this frightens them. A long time ago, I taught a guy about DOS and PC's. He became pretty good at it. When Windows 3.1 came out, we was distraught. He was mad that all the work he did to learn DOS was wasted, and the people who were coming to him for his knowledge weren't coming around any more. Suffice to say, for years, he hated Windows. It wasn't "real" computing, because it was for the masses. And as we all know, if it's for the masses, it doesn't count.

I believe that a lot of the frustration we're seeing over the idea that these tablets are computers is following that same trajectory with some people. There's little mystery. It's too easy. Anyone can do it, well, except for one of my friends for whom it took me two years (not kidding here), to teach to use the Google box.

So they hang upon some small thing that they can point to that will give them some argument that these aren't REALLY computers. That makes them feel better. I know they will angrily deny it, and it won't be true for everyone (for some, it's just that the most popular model is an Apple product, and that's enough for them to denigrate it).

But my daughter, 19 years old, and her friends, say that of course it's a computer.
post #111 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's possible, but I detect some other vibe from the people who don't want to accept it. And it may be the older generation, er, myself excepted of course, who are the worst.

People have a lot invested in the technology they grew up with, and this frightens them. A long time ago, I taught a guy about DOS and PC's. He became pretty good at it. When Windows 3.1 came out, we was distraught. He was mad that all the work he did to learn DOS was wasted, and the people who were coming to him for his knowledge weren't coming around any more. Suffice to say, for years, he hated Windows. It wasn't "real" computing, because it was for the masses. And as we all know, if it's for the masses, it doesn't count.

I believe that a lot of the frustration we're seeing over the idea that these tablets are computers is following that same trajectory with some people. There's little mystery. It's too easy. Anyone can do it, well, except for one of my friends for whom it took me two years (not kidding here), to teach to use the Google box.

So they hang upon some small thing that they can point to that will give them some argument that these aren't REALLY computers. That makes them feel better. I know they will angrily deny it, and it won't be true for everyone (for some, it's just that the most popular model is an Apple product, and that's enough for them to denigrate it).

But my daughter, 19 years old, and her friends, say that of course it's a computer.

Excellent conjecture! I too knew someone who had DOS wrapped around his little finger and who railed against Windows 3.1 as a fad and something he could not accept as true computing.

Perhaps I should have said in my previous post that 'This could well be a non-Apple centric, generational phenomenon. Those of us who are pre-PC in age would understand...'

I wonder how many of those who cannot accept an iPad as being a computer grew up using Macs? My guess would be not many to none.
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post #112 of 115
If an iPad can do what one does on a desktop or laptop computer then it is a computer.

When the iPad came out the only thing it couldn't do that I regularly did on my computers was movie editing. Now it will do that.

Something I sometimes do on my computer is watch DVDs. An iPad can't do that. It also can't play CDs. I don't buy music downloads. I purchase CDs. When there is a way to connect DVD and CD players to an iPad it will be more useful to more people. When it has the ability to connect to an external hard drive it will be even more like a conventional computer. Perhaps some apps already exist that do these things.

Would I watch movies streamed over the internet on an iPad? Unless I was nowhere near home the answer would be no. I would prefer to watch on a larger screen.

If I needed something portable as a computer I would buy an iPad. Right now I own a Mac Book and it is portable. It does what I need as a desktop too. There are seven cords plugged into it when it is at home (power, ethernet, USB keyboard, USB trackball, Firewire 400 External Hard Drive, audio out, video out). An iPad can connect to just a couple of things at once. If it had Thunderbolt maybe it could do more.

One day I will get an iPad or similar computer. When that happens I'll keep my desktop computer or perhaps get another laptop that can be utilized as a desktop. The only reason I would get rid of my current 2008 Mac Book is if it is no longer compatible with programs I need or if it died. Right now my Mac Book running 10.5.8 works just fine.
post #113 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

If an iPad can do what one does on a desktop or laptop computer then it is a computer.

When the iPad came out the only thing it couldn't do that I regularly did on my computers was movie editing. Now it will do that.

Something I sometimes do on my computer is watch DVDs. An iPad can't do that. It also can't play CDs. I don't buy music downloads. I purchase CDs. When there is a way to connect DVD and CD players to an iPad it will be more useful to more people. When it has the ability to connect to an external hard drive it will be even more like a conventional computer. Perhaps some apps already exist that do these things.

Would I watch movies streamed over the internet on an iPad? Unless I was nowhere near home the answer would be no. I would prefer to watch on a larger screen.

If I needed something portable as a computer I would buy an iPad. Right now I own a Mac Book and it is portable. It does what I need as a desktop too. There are seven cords plugged into it when it is at home (power, ethernet, USB keyboard, USB trackball, Firewire 400 External Hard Drive, audio out, video out). An iPad can connect to just a couple of things at once. If it had Thunderbolt maybe it could do more.

One day I will get an iPad or similar computer. When that happens I'll keep my desktop computer or perhaps get another laptop that can be utilized as a desktop. The only reason I would get rid of my current 2008 Mac Book is if it is no longer compatible with programs I need or if it died. Right now my Mac Book running 10.5.8 works just fine.

With Apple's HDMI adapter cable, you can stream those movies and Tv shows to your big set.

But without ripping your CD's, you can't watch them on your iPad without streaming them from your computer
post #114 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

With Apple's HDMI adapter cable, you can stream those movies and Tv shows to your big set.

But without ripping your CD's, you can't watch them on your iPad without streaming them from your computer

I'm not sure about that streaming over the HDMI cable to the TV. They've only said you can do "mirrored output" and while that would technically allow you to "stream" a movie, it's going to be forced into the iPad aspect ratio, then letter-boxed inside that, and, quite likely, effectively at iPad screen resolutions.

I could be wrong, but that's how I interpreted the announcement.
post #115 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I'm not sure about that streaming over the HDMI cable to the TV. They've only said you can do "mirrored output" and while that would technically allow you to "stream" a movie, it's going to be forced into the iPad aspect ratio, then letter-boxed inside that, and, quite likely, effectively at iPad screen resolutions.

I could be wrong, but that's how I interpreted the announcement.

It would be 720p, though it would be interpolated up to 1080p, from my interpretation.
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