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Apple's MacBook Pros ship with active SSD TRIM support in Snow Leopard

post #1 of 66
Thread Starter 
New MacBook Pro models are shipping with Mac OS X 10.6.6 (build 10J3210), which supplies TRIM support for bundled Apple Solid State Drives, enabling extended performance of the fast new devices via background maintenance.

AppleInsider previously reported that Mac OS X 10.7 Lion would incorporate support for the TRIM command, which helps the operating system coordinate the maintenance of unused memory cells on the new SSD devices, preserving long term performance.

However, we can now exclusively report that Apple has also added the feature to the revised build on the latest, Thunderbolt-equipped MacBook Pros that shipped earlier this week.

While they appear to run the same Mac OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.6 version, the newer build (10J3210 versus 10J567, the newest build of Mac OS X 10.6.6 available for download from Software Update by other Macs) includes and automatically activates TRIM Support, as noted in System Profiler.




Apple will likely roll out support for the new feature in an upcoming new build of Snow Leopard. The feature reportedly only supports Apple-bundled SSD volumes, but this may change as well.
post #2 of 66
It might just be saying the drive supports the TRIM command, not necessarily that it is being used...
post #3 of 66
edited
post #4 of 66
i bet this is a more elegant implementation than the one windows 7 has had since release
post #5 of 66
I would hope I don't have to pay the Apple tax to get this feature as I just got an OCZ Vertex 2 drive.
post #6 of 66
Worse, I have an Apple SSD equipped 2009-era 13" MBP and am running the OSX Lion Beta on it, and no TRIM support mentioned. What gives?
post #7 of 66
I don't suppose someone could explain to me what TRIM is?

Thanks.
post #8 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrefly View Post

Worse, I have an Apple SSD equipped 2009-era 13" MBP and am running the OSX Lion Beta on it, and no TRIM support mentioned. What gives?

Maybe they're mad that you're violating your NDA or using software that doesn't belong to you.
post #9 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

It might just be saying the drive supports the TRIM command, not necessarily that it is being used...

Drives that support TRIM (all SSDs) already show up in Snow Leopard as "TRIM Support: No," so this this something new.
post #10 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I don't suppose someone could explain to me what TRIM is?

Thanks.

I suppose you could click on the link in the article and read about it. Or perhaps use Google or Wikipedia if you don't trust AI.
post #11 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

I would hope I don't have to pay the Apple tax to get this feature as I just got an OCZ Vertex 2 drive.

Did you pay the OCZ Vertex 2 tax? If so, ask them what services they provide. Maybe they expect you to wrap their device in a Windows PC. Of course, the Windows PC tax is significantly higher than the cost of Mac OS X.

Where's the Tea Party when you find yourself with expenses and social costs that you don't want to pay for? Outrageous we have to give up resources to have things!
post #12 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archos View Post

I suppose you could click on the link in the article and read about it. Or perhaps use Google or Wikipedia if you don't trust AI.

Or I could ask some of the nicer people here, and hope not to just get snide remarks like yours.

Some people here are helpful. Others not so.
post #13 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrefly View Post

Worse, I have an Apple SSD equipped 2009-era 13" MBP and am running the OSX Lion Beta on it, and no TRIM support mentioned. What gives?

Are you sure your drive supports trim?
post #14 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrefly View Post

Worse, I have an Apple SSD equipped 2009-era 13" MBP and am running the OSX Lion Beta on it, and no TRIM support mentioned. What gives?


I'm not sure if there is a difference, but according to some testing by MacWorld MBAs equipped with SSDs don't necessarily have the performance issues with writing that TRIM supported drives avoid:
http://www.macworld.com/article/1562...turetests.html

So you might have nothing to worry about if you have a made to order MBP.
post #15 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I don't suppose someone could explain to me what TRIM is?

Thanks.

Yes, no problem. GOOGLE.

:-)
post #16 of 66
I just put an Intel 510 series 250GB SSD in a Late 2008 MBP and despite the drive itself supporting TRIM, 10.6.6 does not. Hoping that 10.6.7 will enable it.

BTW, Intel 510 SSD works fine in a Late 2008 MBP as stated, but does NOT work in a Mid 2010 MBP. You can clone an old SL drive, but you can't install SL from scratch. I tried everything and no go!
Seems to be ok with the Nvidia chipset of the 2008 and not the intel chipset of the 2010.
Ironic!
post #17 of 66
I've been told by some that if you are using whole disk encryption (PGP etc) then TRIM doesn't do you any good. The entire drive always seems to be full, since the entire drive is always encrypted. This means that TRIM never see's "unused space" to clear out. Haven't tested it myself, since I can't justify the expense of an SSD.
post #18 of 66
reinstalling the latest combo update now to see if it switches the build number.
post #19 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I don't suppose someone could explain to me what TRIM is?

Thanks.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ssd+trim
post #20 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkyp56 View Post

reinstalling the latest combo update now to see if it switches the build number.

Any idea where to download this build from as its not the combo on the apple site as of this post.
post #21 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archos View Post

Did you pay the OCZ Vertex 2 tax? If so, ask them what services they provide. Maybe they expect you to wrap their device in a Windows PC. Of course, the Windows PC tax is significantly higher than the cost of Mac OS X.

Where's the Tea Party when you find yourself with expenses and social costs that you don't want to pay for? Outrageous we have to give up resources to have things!

That's definitely the dumbest thing I've ever read on this site. Maybe even the internet. Wow. I sincerely hope you forgot the sarcasm tag.

Pretty sure you won't have to buy an Apple provided SSD to have TRIM. It would be powerfully stupid for Apple to make that move. I just don't see it happening.
post #22 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by HKZ View Post

That's definitely the dumbest thing I've ever read on this site. Maybe even the internet. Wow. I sincerely hope you forgot the sarcasm tag.

Pretty sure you won't have to buy an Apple provided SSD to have TRIM. It would be powerfully stupid for Apple to make that move. I just don't see it happening.


To the 2nd part, it's appearing so far that non-Apple BTO SSDs that do support TRIM in other OSs aren't showing up with TRIM supported in these OS X builds. To prevent getting post deleted again I won't use the L-word.
post #23 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post

To the 2nd part, it's appearing so far that non-Apple BTO SSDs that do support TRIM in other OSs aren't showing up with TRIM supported in these OS X builds. To prevent getting post deleted again I won't use the L-word.

Im sure if you just kept on the subject at hand, that wouldn't happen.
post #24 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkyp56 View Post

Im sure if you just kept on the subject at hand, that wouldn't happen.

Let's see - I replied to a poster who mentioned that he was running that same build with a non-Apple SSD and TRIM didn't work by adding more information.

Bucking for moderator or one of those editor slots they've opened up? How did you add ANYTHING on topic?

Pot. . . meet kettle. k thx
post #25 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post

....To prevent getting post deleted again I won't use the L-word.

Lesbians? Lima? (phonetic alphabet) Lazy? (referring to other posters)
post #26 of 66
I wonder if TRIM support will be extended to the Apple supplied BTO option in my recently purchased iMac.

APPLE SSD TS256B:

Capacityt251 GB (251,000,193,024 bytes)
ModeltAPPLE SSD TS256B
RevisiontAGAA0206
post #27 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archos View Post

Drives that support TRIM (all SSDs) already show up in Snow Leopard as "TRIM Support: No," so this this something new.

Not all SSDs support TRIM, but most released within the past 12-18 months do.

Still, that is correct even for drives that do support it.
post #28 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrefly View Post

Worse, I have an Apple SSD equipped 2009-era 13" MBP and am running the OSX Lion Beta on it, and no TRIM support mentioned. What gives?

I wonder if you Boot Camp Windows 7 if Windows has TRIM support.
post #29 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

i bet this is a more elegant implementation than the one windows 7 has had since release

Elegant in that you'll have to buy a brand new MBP to use it?

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post #30 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by macosxp View Post

I wonder if you Boot Camp Windows 7 if Windows has TRIM support.

Windows 7 has it by default. Most SSDs have had TRIM support for at least two years. Seems like my $1200 drive doesn't...

APPLE SSD TS512B:

Capacityt500.28 GB (500,277,790,720 bytes)
ModeltAPPLE SSD TS512B
RevisiontAGAA0206
Serial Numbert 80AM10ADM4QZ
Native Command QueuingtNo
Removable MediatNo
Detachable DrivetNo
BSD Nametdisk0
Medium TypetSolid State
TRIM SupporttNo
Partition Map TypetGPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. statustVerified

Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
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iPhone 5 Black 32GB

iPad 3rd Generation, 32GB

Mac Mini Core2Duo 2.26ghz,...

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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
15" Matte MacBook Pro: 2.66Ghz i7, 8GB RAM, GT330m 512MB, 512GB SSD

iPhone 5 Black 32GB

iPad 3rd Generation, 32GB

Mac Mini Core2Duo 2.26ghz,...

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post #31 of 66
First of all, this isn't news any more, as we've known this for some time.

Secondly, until 10.7 comes out this summer, trim only supports the Toshiba SSD's Apple installs, though it may work with other drives using the same model Toshiba controller.

Apple has had partial trim support for some time, but it was only for third party testing purposes. Trim is such a basic OS level system that it must work perfectly, or not at all. Apple is conservative about such things, and using it only with drives they support for now, makes sense.

But, if you buy a drive with a Sandforce, or similar controller, trim support is much less of an issue.
post #32 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

Elegant in that you'll have to buy a brand new MBP to use it?

You shouldn't have to, as this is an OS attribute. When 10.7 comes out, most machines should be able to take advantage of it.
post #33 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

Windows 7 has it by default. Most SSDs have had TRIM support for at least two years. Seems like my $1200 drive doesn't...

APPLE SSD TS512B:

Capacityt500.28 GB (500,277,790,720 bytes)
ModeltAPPLE SSD TS512B
RevisiontAGAA0206
Serial Numbert 80AM10ADM4QZ
Native Command QueuingtNo
Removable MediatNo
Detachable DrivetNo
BSD Nametdisk0
Medium TypetSolid State
TRIM SupporttNo
Partition Map TypetGPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. statustVerified

Many SSDs didn't come with it but it was added with firmware updates. Hoping if Apple's older SSDs are capable with firmware, that it'll get done.
post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post

Many SSDs didn't come with it but it was added with firmware updates. Hoping if Apple's older SSDs are capable with firmware, that it'll get done.

I hope so!

Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
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iPhone 5 Black 32GB

iPad 3rd Generation, 32GB

Mac Mini Core2Duo 2.26ghz,...

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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
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iPhone 5 Black 32GB

iPad 3rd Generation, 32GB

Mac Mini Core2Duo 2.26ghz,...

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post #35 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by macosxp View Post

I wonder if you Boot Camp Windows 7 if Windows has TRIM support.

I suppose booting Windows in Boot Camp would give Windows direct hardware control and that TRIM would work on a recent-vintage installed SSD, whether or not from Toshiba. Using a Windows guest OS in a virtual machine would not enable TRIM, however, as hardware calls from the guest are mediated through the virtualization hypervisor, and the OSX host, at least according to what folks are saying here re the current downloadable build of 10.6.6, does not support TRIM.

All of this is interesting for someone considering buying a BTO MBP with base-config HDD, swapping out the hard drive and substituting an SSD with higher performance and at lower cost than Apple's Toshiba SSD. I wouldn't do it yet.

And as for Toshiba, Apple seems married to their SSDs.
post #36 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post

To the 2nd part, it's appearing so far that non-Apple BTO SSDs that do support TRIM in other OSs aren't showing up with TRIM supported in these OS X builds. To prevent getting post deleted again I won't use the L-word.

LAME ...is the encoder I use for my mp3s. Sorry for being so off topic.
post #37 of 66
For Apple picked SSD's, or for any SSD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

i bet this is a more elegant implementation than the one windows 7 has had since release

Err, how much more elegant can you get than a command that runs when idle by default?
post #38 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist View Post

I suppose booting Windows in Boot Camp would give Windows direct hardware control and that TRIM would work on a recent-vintage installed SSD, whether or not from Toshiba. Using a Windows guest OS in a virtual machine would not enable TRIM, however, as hardware calls from the guest are mediated through the virtualization hypervisor, and the OSX host, at least according to what folks are saying here re the current downloadable build of 10.6.6, does not support TRIM.

All of this is interesting for someone considering buying a BTO MBP with base-config HDD, swapping out the hard drive and substituting an SSD with higher performance and at lower cost than Apple's Toshiba SSD. I wouldn't do it yet.

And as for Toshiba, Apple seems married to their SSDs.

They used Samsung SSD's for two years first. Toshiba has a very aggressive controller which gives much better performance, but may lead to shorter drive life.
post #39 of 66
I've been using an Intel X25 G2 in mine for nearly a year now, and even without trim, there is minimal slowdown with normal usage. Only if you're OCD and perform benchmarks every day you would notice smaller numbers under write speeds over time.

But I do hope they support third party drives, Apple's SSDs are way overpriced and often much slower.
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post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoo View Post

For Apple picked SSD's, or for any SSD?



Err, how much more elegant can you get than a command that runs when idle by default?

Ah, very good question sir!

There is a teeny problem with trim as it's now implemented. If you RAID two or more SSD's together, TRIM DOESN'T WORK!

How about that? Turns out that it can't understand two or more SSD's together. If Apple could solve that problem, their trim support would be more "elegant".
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