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Apple to cut products from retail stores and expand personalized setup - Page 2

post #41 of 76
3/7/11 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsu View Post

Wouldn't have to do that if everyone has a tablet.

Let me correct that for you:
Wouldn't have to do that if everyone has a tablet that can read all versions of Microsoft Office documents, PC and Mac, flawlessly.

In my experience, my coworkers can easily create a PowerPoint presentation that can't load at all in Keynote, or Keynote just puts every animation on top of the last keyframe, making a half dozen copies of the same object/slide. It's a very messy import that rarely works flawlessly in the presentations we have.

And then there's Pages/Word, or Numbers/Excel which isn't even a close comparison.
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post #42 of 76
3/7/11 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsu View Post

Wouldn't have to do that if everyone has a tablet.

I think this is actually mostly true. Tablets will eliminate the clumsiness of laptops in such settings. As long as tools exist to quickly and smoothly annotate documents like presentations (a lot of people print them and follow along so they can make notes on them)...then you have closed most of the gap.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #43 of 76
3/7/11 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by skittlebrau79 View Post

Let me correct that for you:
Wouldn't have to do that if everyone has a tablet that can read all versions of Microsoft Office documents, PC and Mac, flawlessly.

In my experience, my coworkers can easily create a PowerPoint presentation that can't load at all in Keynote, or Keynote just puts every animation on top of the last keyframe, making a half dozen copies of the same object/slide. It's a very messy import that rarely works flawlessly in the presentations we have.

And then there's Pages/Word, or Numbers/Excel which isn't even a close comparison.

I suspect you'll see at least viewing tools for the main Microsoft document types (Word, Excel and PowerPoint) on the iPad soon.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #44 of 76
3/7/11 at 1:53pm
Smart move on Apple's part. Much of the space, in my local Apple Store, is wasted on 3rd party stuff that Apple could just as easily sell online. By providing a more personalized buying experience, they will further differentiate themselves. People buy Apple products not only because they are more elegant, but because the Apple Store provides a home-base and 'lifeline' to consumers. That's my opinion...
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post #45 of 76
3/7/11 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep View Post

I think it has more to do with using that retail space for things that generate more revenue. I can't imagine that most people buying Macs / iPods / iPhones aren't some of the 200 million with iTunes accounts. But then - I could just lack imagination.

I don't know what personalized setup has to do cutting software products from the stores. The software sits on wall space - it doesn't take up any room. If they want to cut software from the store because they want people to use the App Store, that's one thing, but it has nothing to do with making physical space available for personalized setup. The space used to sell printers does take up floor space, but in the real world, both in business and at home for photography and other projects, people still need to print, no matter what Apple thinks. I would never buy a printer or scanner at an Apple store anyway, because they generally charge full list price.

I bought my last MacBook Pro from an independent dealer and I bought lots of software at the same time. If they didn't sell software, I would have wound up buying much less. You can negotiate with a sales person, but you can't negotiate with the App Store.

And I still like the idea of having my (expensive) apps on a CD, if only for backup and sales verification purposes.
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post #46 of 76
3/7/11 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I don't know what personalized setup has to do cutting software products from the stores. The software sits on wall space - it doesn't take up any room.

You haven't seen that many Apple stores, I gather. Not all of them are set up like the "mini" stores. The larger Apple stores have freestanding shelves in the middle of the floor for boxed software titles. I doubt you'll see much change in the mini store setup, as there just isn't that much space to be gained.
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post #47 of 76
3/7/11 at 2:54pm
If apple is cutting products it is likely to do with poor sales, like any other company
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post #48 of 76
3/7/11 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

But aren't Mac supposed to be easy to set up? Here's the real reason...



Steve did a lot of bragging during the recent iPad event about how Apple has "over 200 million accounts with credit cards." So they eliminate some of the software they sell in the store, and if someone wants it they'll get them set up on iTunes, make sure they enter their credit card information, and show them how wonderful it is to buy apps from the Mac App Store. I'm sure some bean-counter at Apple has already projected how much more Mac App Store sales they can get if they could just get people hooked on the Apple kool-aid before they leave the store.

Not that it's necessarly a bad thing. But don't think this is much more than a way to get more people buying apps from the Mac App Store where Apple probably earns a much higher profit than selling boxed software in their retail stores.

Edit: Not to mention that it will encourage developers to get their software into the App Store if Apple stops selling the boxed versions.

Couldn't agree more Wiggin! In my mind it means more resources (money) for Apple to develop and improve their current products and develop new products, too. The "tech part of my life has been made 100 times better, since my switch years ago from a clunky windows machine to my Apples. My television entertainment is better b/c of ATV and my cell phone that I rely on so much is a dream compared to the Samsung RAZR copy I had.

I want Apple to be even more successful. I'm just looking down at my Apple wireless slim keyboard, magic trackpad and magic mouse all bought after my original intel iMac. Apple just innovates the crap out of everyone else!


Best
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post #49 of 76
3/7/11 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPedro View Post

You must be new here

Also, a printer? Really? Printing is increasingly becoming a niche market. When you can carry anything you would need to read or show another person on a handheld device like an iPad or iPhone, printing isn't necessary.

I agree, I'm almost looking for things to print!
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post #50 of 76
3/7/11 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregoriusM View Post

Apple is maximising the return on per square foot sales which is already the best in the business.

Brilliant! That's the first rule of retail!
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post #51 of 76
3/7/11 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

Who actually buys printers and hard drives at/in/from the Apple Store?
All software should move to the download model. (Well, maybe not Adobe as way too often you need the damn discs for CS).

I actually bought my printer and hard drive from an Apple Store.
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post #52 of 76
3/7/11 at 3:39pm
I suspect most people who go to an Apple Store and buy an Apple product already have Apple iTune's accounts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

I'm sure some bean-counter at Apple has already projected how much more Mac App Store sales they can get if they could just get people hooked on the Apple kool-aid before they leave the store.
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post #53 of 76
3/7/11 at 3:44pm
I was recently at the main store in San Francisco and they have done that. There are more accessories at the company store in Cupertino.
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post #54 of 76
3/7/11 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPedro View Post

That's like saying: "Not everyone has electricity in their home". Computers are now internet devices. People need to keep up with basic requirements or risk being left behind.

Since the rise in availability of broadband internet, I've wondered why software continued to be distributed on discs. This is Apple once again being ahead of the curve.

You point out how foolish his comment really is and I bet he doesn't even see it.
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post #55 of 76
3/7/11 at 4:23pm
I was in an Apple store Saturday evening 3.5.11, plenty of boxed copies of MobileMe available.
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post #56 of 76
3/7/11 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

In fact, I don't have internet at my home, and I know about a hand full of people who don't either. You say you've wondered as if the answer isn't obvious: Not everyone has internet.

Why don't you have Internet at home? Is it too expensive?

Do you own a Mac?

Not judging, just curious. I don't know of a single Mac user who doesn't have broadband. Maybe I'm living in a bubble though.
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post #57 of 76
3/7/11 at 5:08pm
Regardless of what people think about putting products on display in stores, they should at least admit that looking at a picture of a product on a screen is a lot different than being able to see it in real life.
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post #58 of 76
3/7/11 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Regardless of what people think about putting products on display in stores, they should at least admit that looking at a picture of a product on a screen is a lot different than being able to see it in real life.

Your winning argument is that seeing a box cover of software is more informative about the product than an entire website and an internet of user reviews, video clips and demos/trials devoted to it? Unbelievable!
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post #59 of 76
3/7/11 at 6:09pm
does the personalized setup cost? $50?
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post #60 of 76
3/7/11 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Apple should design and sell its own printers.

Oh no. Apple used to be in that business, but it got axed along with all the other money losing products Apple used to sell, during the Second Coming of Stevus.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #61 of 76
3/7/11 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfdata View Post

I was in an Apple store Saturday evening 3.5.11, plenty of boxed copies of MobileMe available.

Im glad they are ditching a commercialy packaged product. There isnt even software in the box. Mobileme is already part of mac os. The only thing in the stupid box is an authorization code. How would you een put that on the Mac App Store? Buy it and it emails it to you.

I purchased Apple technician training a few years back. They sent it to me in a box. Fedex lost the box. I got tired of the rigumrole and just asked if they could just send me the access code ( the training is all internet based). Apple said no, i had to get what was in the box. They would not tell me what was in the box, only that i would have to wait til they could send another. I waited assuming there was some special study materiAl in the box. I waited. I got the box after a few days. What was in the box? An access code. Nothing more.

Progress. Better late than never.
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post #62 of 76
3/7/11 at 9:27pm
Bad idea. If they don't see the product, they will not immediately remember or crave the products. How do you think supermarkets came up with the idea of their shop floor arrangements? Buy one get One free or MultiBuy. All about impulse buying.

I suggest at least they need to put some big or prominent pictures on the wall or shelfs saying 'We sell these (whatever the picture shows e.g. printers, scanner etc.) too. Just ask'.

We all know how expensive these things are in Apple Store. I mean they carry premium prices. If they can see they can buy and Apple can get more money.
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post #63 of 76
3/7/11 at 9:50pm
is they sell World of Warcraft: Cataclysm in the store. Without the first two expansion packs (The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King) or the original game. You can't use Cata as a stand-alone game. Either carry all of it, carry just the orignal game, or just skip it. Don't sell a single part of a whole that makes Apple, and Blizzard, look bad. Put Starcraft II in there instead.
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post #64 of 76
3/7/11 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

uh, who's buying a $1000+ computer with no internet at home?

People who downloaded pirate music and then had there internet cut off.

Or people from rural areas that maybe have internet bit at a very slow speed.

Like someone else said though, arnt Macs mean to be easy!
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post #65 of 76
3/7/11 at 11:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by skittlebrau79 View Post

Let me correct that for you:
Wouldn't have to do that if everyone has a tablet that can read all versions of Microsoft Office documents, PC and Mac, flawlessly.

In my experience, my coworkers can easily create a PowerPoint presentation that can't load at all in Keynote, or Keynote just puts every animation on top of the last keyframe, making a half dozen copies of the same object/slide. It's a very messy import that rarely works flawlessly in the presentations we have.

And then there's Pages/Word, or Numbers/Excel which isn't even a close comparison.

I solve this by sharing presentations and other documents that are for reference and that don't need to be worked on as a pdf. Usually the pdf is a smaller file and doesn't hog so much bandwidth when you email it. If the audience is not an internal one, then sharing a pdf means it's also harder for the audience to 'borrow' and recycle your work without asking.

It's amazing how many people don't follow the practice of 'create and publish'. Create the document in your favourite app and then publish it in a format that pretty much anyone on any platform can read - pdf. Of course this is a lot tougher to do when you are collaborating in the creation step.
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post #66 of 76
3/7/11 at 11:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

But aren't Mac supposed to be easy to set up? Here's the real reason...


Steve did a lot of bragging during the recent iPad event about how Apple has "over 200 million accounts with credit cards."

"scuse me bud, I wanna get an application from the Android Market, mind pointing out where I take this crisp, new dollar bill?"

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #67 of 76
3/8/11 at 12:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Why don't you have Internet at home? Is it too expensive?

Do you own a Mac?

Not judging, just curious. I don't know of a single Mac user who doesn't have broadband. Maybe I'm living in a bubble though.


Most people have the internet, not all have Broadband internet. There's a huge difference if you have to buy and download every item digitally. In addition, many users are capped as they just surf/get their mail - 20GB a moth or so for a cheaper tariff. They won't want to have to up it so they can download a 10GB file. They would rather buy the disc and keep their tariff. But that might ruin profit margins.

Skating where the puck is? I don't think so. Not giving a shit about the consumer they purport to hold dear? Certainly. It's all good if you're in a city with great connectivity and middle income.
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post #68 of 76
3/8/11 at 1:59am
If they want to save space I have a few ideas:

1. Stop all the kids coming in just to look at their Facebook accounts so the shops are not always packed and genuine customers get a chance to look at the machines.

2. Steve keeps going on about how Apple is the number 1 mobile devices company - how about instead of selling 'home' printers they started selling some 'mobile' printers and scanners, which take up less space and generate more revenue/margin. You could probably even put them on shelves with the other peripherals instead of on tables.

3. If they want to get rid of most (but not all please speaking as a pro apps user) software why not have a 'download bar' with free wifi where you can plug your mac into super fast broadband connection and download apps while you are there. Make it a freebie for MobileMe or One To One subscribers or something to cover the costs.

4. Provide a way for users to activate their iPhones at home. In my local AppleStore there is a whole section cordoned off for iPhone activations.
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post #69 of 76
3/8/11 at 5:14am
An iPad is probably about the size of a game box. Perhaps they could have a row of selected games, with an iPad fixed at the end, where you can see the rest available in store.

They could do that per software category.
And include some nice demos.

Sometimes it's just nice to browse in person and pick stuff up in the moment.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #70 of 76
3/8/11 at 5:30am
I like to have the disks for software I buy.

I'm not sure if I can get back all the software I have downloaded without paying again.
Plus I may want the same versions as before, rather than a later one that may not work the way I like or with some hardware I own.

So, unless license management and software versioning has been sorted out, I like disks.

I suppose I should just make sure I save a backup of the original download somewhere.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #71 of 76
3/8/11 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Not everyone is connected to the internet though

Not everyone can make it to an Apple Store, either. Not sure what the point was, but there you go. Not everyone owns a car, not everyone owns a house. Not everyone uses public transit, I mean we can go on for hours at this if you want. My guess is that ENOUGH people who own Macs have internet access of some sort to make this a sensible move for Apple. That's the only statistic that matters.

OTOH, since you later mention printing out presentations for meetings. My Fortune 50 company has seriously discouraged the practice as being irresponsible with resources - and with over 75,000 staff potentially doing that it costs the company a lot of money and creates a lot of waste. Perhaps its time for you to exit the twentieth century and join us in the 21st? Perhaps you've even heard of the green movement, no wait let me take it back to the seventies where ecology was strongly emphasized. Use resources wisely, generate less waste. Noble concepts to embrace.

Do you seriously believe that you and the "handful" of your acquaintances represent the large majority of Apple product users? Or should Apple spend millions of dollars to placate less than 0.01% of their consumer market? Is that fiscally responsible?
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If you are going to insist on being an ass, at least demonstrate the intelligence to be a smart one
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post #72 of 76
3/8/11 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by old-wiz View Post

does the personalized setup cost? $50?

It's free.
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post #73 of 76
3/8/11 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

Most people have the internet, not all have Broadband internet. There's a huge difference if you have to buy and download every item digitally. In addition, many users are capped as they just surf/get their mail - 20GB a moth or so for a cheaper tariff. They won't want to have to up it so they can download a 10GB file. They would rather buy the disc and keep their tariff. But that might ruin profit margins.

Skating where the puck is? I don't think so. Not giving a shit about the consumer they purport to hold dear? Certainly. It's all good if you're in a city with great connectivity and middle income.

Of course there's a huge difference. But, and this is important, what does the average profile of an Apple product user look like? See like chronster, you can cite personal anecdotal exceptions until the cows come home (note nice rural reference there), but you are not really expecting a large corporation to meet every single need of every single user of their devices no matter what are you?

Moreover, if you check the prices of the software that is in fact downloadable, it is cheaper than the version with the physical media. Why? Because the company doesn't have to support the entire supply chain that is needed to produce the physical media, and therefore needs to raise the price in order to cover those costs. How about responsible use of resources? Not using as much plastic (derived from non-renewable crude oil refinement to produce long-chain hydrocarbons) or energy to drive the packaging equipment, warehousing and transportation. Not to mention disposal when upgrades cause a warehouse full of old software to become defunct. See? There are a lot of reasons to do this which reflect a higher concern than you give credit for. It's possible that there's more good to this than you are willing to admit.
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If you are going to insist on being an ass, at least demonstrate the intelligence to be a smart one
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post #74 of 76
3/8/11 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Apple should design and sell its own printers.

They used to do just that, and some of the models were as good as anything on the market, like the LaserWriter 8500.

It wasn't a money-making part of the business.
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post #75 of 76
3/8/11 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

No it isn't

In fact, I don't have internet at my home, and I know about a hand full of people who don't either. You say you've wondered as if the answer isn't obvious: Not everyone has internet.

But it seems that you do have access to it elsewhere, whether at work or someplace with (free?) wifi available.
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post #76 of 76
3/8/11 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Again I laugh

You seem to be living in the future or something. Whenever I give a presentation here at work, I print out that presentation for everyone to follow along with. If I emailed everyone the presentation (which I do sometimes) most of the people in the meeting would still print it out, with a few bringing their laptops in.

It'll will definitely get to where you think things currently are, with broadband being in every home, and printers being largely unneeded, but until then, bring yourself back to 2011 with us

We used to provide hardcopy, but over the past several years, the perceived/actual need continually declined, with email or other electronic substitutes replacing hardcopy.

It's not done yet, but it is going away for the most part, and not in some far-distant future.
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