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Xcode 4 available to all on Apple's Mac App Store for $4.99 - Page 2

post #41 of 95
3/9/11 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertZBert View Post

Yes, the post is wrong.

I've been a member for several years, downloaded the version 3 for free.
Free will no longer be the case...

Well it does come free with every Mac. I am a paid dev so I always get it there, but it can be installed from the DVD that came with your Mac.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #42 of 95
3/9/11 at 3:19pm
The $4.99 is not bad for Xcode and all the documentation. I just wonder how many Apple expect to sell!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I hope they aren't offering a subscription outside of an app without also allowing the option to subscribe inside the app, tsk. Bundling emulators too.

I think $100 a year is a lot to ask just to test apps. How do they even come up with that price? If you jailbreak, you can get it for free and it feels so much better knowing you are free to develop for your own hardware without one day Apple stopping your license.

I could understand a fee for publishing to the store or even for support but not just to allow you to do hardware debugging.

If someone can install their own app on devices without jailbreaking then what stops them from selling their own apps outside the app store?! Installing an app on a device for development requires the device UDID to be entered into the Developers Portal, which is for paid developers only. The process also requires security certificates, provisioning profiles.. etc.
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post #43 of 95
3/9/11 at 3:41pm
How come Apple is now charging (albeit small amount of) money for this. It used to be one of great selling points of Mac and OS X that I used to tell everyone that Macs came with pro development tools bundled with each Mac (as optional install).

This seems like a change in policy for the worse?

Mac Pro, 8 Core, 32 GB RAM, nVidia GTX 285 1 GB, 2 TB storage, 240 GB OWC Mercury Extreme SSD, 30'' Cinema Display, 27'' iMac, 24'' iMac, 17'' MBP, 13'' MBP, 32 GB iPhone 4, 64 GB iPad 3

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Mac Pro, 8 Core, 32 GB RAM, nVidia GTX 285 1 GB, 2 TB storage, 240 GB OWC Mercury Extreme SSD, 30'' Cinema Display, 27'' iMac, 24'' iMac, 17'' MBP, 13'' MBP, 32 GB iPhone 4, 64 GB iPad 3

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post #44 of 95
3/9/11 at 4:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Becoming an educated person is way overrated. You can learn all you need to know from Fox news. The louder opinion is always right.

You can learn everything you need from NPR too... Or do what I do, take them all, listen and laugh at their narrow view of the universe. Then seek out as much information as you can, develop your own reasoning skills etc. then you won't need anyone to tell you what to think.
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post #45 of 95
3/9/11 at 4:17pm
I wonder why it costs $! more in Australia, seeing as I pay (via my ISP) to drag those bits across the Pacific.

Must be one of those transfer pricing things.

When are the boundaries going to come down, I can buy other things from the US at the same price as people who are physically located there pay.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #46 of 95
3/9/11 at 4:37pm
I'm a little confused about what this means for programming an iOS device. Can I use Xcode 4 to test iOS apps in the simulator (not on the devices) without being enrolled in the developer program?
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post #47 of 95
3/9/11 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I wonder why it costs $! more in Australia, seeing as I pay (via my ISP) to drag those bits across the Pacific.

Must be one of those transfer pricing things.

When are the boundaries going to come down, I can buy other things from the US at the same price as people who are physically located there pay.

You're not purchasing it from the US, you are purchasing it from Aussie. If you want to purchase it from the US get some iTunes gift cards, or a US credit card.

But apart from that, this is just another example of how digitial distribution is over priced.
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post #48 of 95
3/9/11 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quevar View Post

I'm a little confused about what this means for programming an iOS device. Can I use Xcode 4 to test iOS apps in the simulator (not on the devices) without being enrolled in the developer program?

Yes you can. You only need to enroll in the iOS developers program if you want to install your app on a device and sell through the app store.
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post #49 of 95
3/9/11 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I hope they aren't offering a subscription outside of an app without also allowing the option to subscribe inside the app, tsk. Bundling emulators too.

I think $100 a year is a lot to ask just to test apps. How do they even come up with that price? If you jailbreak, you can get it for free and it feels so much better knowing you are free to develop for your own hardware without one day Apple stopping your license.

I could understand a fee for publishing to the store or even for support but not just to allow you to do hardware debugging.

..so you just want to test and NOT sell them on the store?

can you clarify this " If you jailbreak, you can get it for free and it feels so much better knowing you are free to develop for your own hardware without one day Apple stopping your license"

... get what for free and what do you mean develop for your own hardware?
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post #50 of 95
3/9/11 at 5:01pm
I am unclear, what do I get now that I didn't get for free a few weeks ago with xcode 3.x.x?
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #51 of 95
3/9/11 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post

what do you mean develop for your own hardware?

Jailbroken iDevices aren't encumbered by proper provisioning profiles.

Any applications you make will run on a jailbroken device. When the provisioning profile for my iPhone ran out a year after my iPhone development class ended, my applications still synced because it was jailbroken.
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post #52 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

How come Apple is now charging (albeit small amount of) money for this. It used to be one of great selling points of Mac and OS X that I used to tell everyone that Macs came with pro development tools bundled with each Mac (as optional install).

This seems like a change in policy for the worse?

It's a change in the policy, in a good way.

XCode was never "free". XCode was part of the new OS releases, 2.0 with 10.4, 3.0 with 10.5. So you had to pay 129$ to use the new XCode because it didn't work with previous OS's.

For the first time, Apple is releasing a new XCode, without making it limited to their new OS release 10.7.

And they are charging a small fee for it. So in a way, this one costs 124$ less than the previous ones.

And I bet this will be included with 10.7 for free so the policy to include XCode with the new release will not change.
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post #53 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:09pm
So they're finally charging for Xcode? For the last 10 years it's been free but now it's part of a $99 dev program or $4.99 standalone. Still, a good price.

The title of this article should really have been "Apple to start charging for Developer Tools."
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post #54 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

So they're finally charging for Xcode? For the last 10 years it's been free but now it's part of a $99 dev program or $4.99 standalone. Still, a good price.

The title of this article should really have been "Apple to start charging for Developer Tools."

Again, if you actually think about it, XCode was never free.
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post #55 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

So they're finally charging for Xcode? For the last 10 years it's been free but now it's part of a $99 dev program or $4.99 standalone. Still, a good price.

The title of this article should really have been "Apple to start charging for Developer Tools."

People will complain about that, but they also dropped the paid dev side from $500 to $99 so Ill take that combo any day of the week over free dev tool and $500 paid membership.
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post #56 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tails View Post

Again, if you actually think about it, XCode was never free.

In the past you could download it from developer.apple.com with only a free membership (I think).
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post #57 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

People will complain about that, but they also dropped the paid dev side from $500 to $99 so Ill take that combo any day of the week over free dev tool and $500 paid membership.

People will complain because they don't realize that this is the first time Apple is releasing a new version of XCode, without making it limited to the concurrent OS release.

This costs 124$ less than the previous XCode's. None of the older ones were usable without buying the OS which costed 129$.
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post #58 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

People will complain about that, but they also dropped the paid dev side from $500 to $99 so Ill take that combo any day of the week over free dev tool and $500 paid membership.

That's right, that was an amazing deal. I still have 3 of those $500 t-shirts lying around. The hardware discount was good though.
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post #59 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

In the past you could download it from developer.apple.com with only a free membership (I think).

If you buy the new OS as well, which was never free. XCode 2 released with 10.4, did not work with 10.3. XCode 3 released with 10.5, did not work with 10.4.

XCode 4 released with 10.7, works with 10.6, for a 5$ fee.
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post #60 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tails View Post

People will complain because they don't realize that this is the first time Apple is releasing a new version of XCode, without making it limited to the concurrent OS release.

This costs 124$ less than the previous XCode's. None of the older ones were usable without buying the OS which costed 129$.

I hadnt even noticed that. I installed Lion but still havent gotten around to checking out Xcode 4. $5 is cheap.


PS: I wonder if the OS will $29 again since theyll be using the Mac App Store for the main delivery system?
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post #61 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

I hadnt even noticed that. I installed Lion but still havent gotten around to checking out Xcode 4. $5 is cheap.


PS: I wonder if the OS will $29 again since theyll be using the Mac App Store for the main delivery system?

I don't know how much Lion will cost, but I bet XCode 4 will be free for anyone who buys Lion.
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post #62 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

That's right, that was an amazing deal. I still have 3 of those $500 t-shirts lying around. The hardware discount was good though.

LOL I had no use for the T-Shirt and extra Apple stickers. I either tossed mine in the trash or gave them away. Now they might be worth something.
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post #63 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tails View Post

If you buy the new OS as well, which was never free. XCode 2 released with 10.4, did not work with 10.3. XCode 3 released with 10.5, did not work with 10.4.

XCode 4 released with 10.7, works with 10.6, for a 5$ fee.

So your argument is that Xcode was never free because it typically required the latest version of the OS to run? I don't think it's usual to include the prerequisites for a thing when calculating a price. It was definitely free, and now it's $5 or $99.

To follow your logic, Xcode 4 is quite a bit more heavyweight than Xcode 3. If we include prerequisites, I could argue that Xcode 4 requires a new Mac, therefore Apple just increased the price of their dev tools by thousands.
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post #64 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I hope they aren't offering a subscription outside of an app without also allowing the option to subscribe inside the app, tsk. Bundling emulators too.

I think $100 a year is a lot to ask just to test apps.

If all you are doing is testing apps, developers can build a version with your device's IMEI number that you can install using the iPhone Configuration Utility for you to test with. You don't need an iOS Dev membership at all.
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post #65 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by franktinsley View Post

This. If you're learning something you can get done with just a computer then the only real skill you need to develop is Googlefoo.

This explains all the poorly designed, buggy, and bloated software out there. People think they can read a book or two, google a little bit, and all of a sudden know about algorithm and data structure design, memory management, and UI design.
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post #66 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

So your argument is that Xcode was never free because it typically required the latest version of the OS to run? I don't think it's usual to include the prerequisites for a thing when calculating a price. It was definitely free, and now it's $5 or $99.

To follow your logic, Xcode 4 is quite a bit more heavyweight than Xcode 3. If we include prerequisites, I could argue that Xcode 4 requires a new Mac, therefore Apple just increased the price of their dev tools by thousands.

You are not making any sense. XCode 4 does not require a new mac.

This is the first time an XCode upgrade is being released without an accompanying OS upgrade.

This is why people are confused. And this is why there's a fee.

XCode 4 will be free for Lion users, most likely.

So if Apple waited 3 months to release XCode 4, and released it together with Lion, like they did before, and didn't offer it for 10.6 users at all, nobody would be complaining. But they would be missing out on a new XCode for a 5$ fee.

This is Apple being generous. Not greedy.

If Apple charges 5$ for Lion users, then you can complain. Because you only need XCode 4 if you are going to develop for Lion. 3.2 is enough for every platform Apple is supporting right now, and it is free.
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post #67 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tails View Post

This is Apple being generous. Not greedy.

Mate I hope you're having a laugh, because if not you really shouldn't twist your mind like that, no matter how much of a fan you are of something. You sound like a Christian trying to explain away all the evidence that the Earth is older than 5,000 years.
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post #68 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Mate I hope you're having a laugh, because if not you really shouldn't twist your mind like that, no matter how much of a fan you are of something. You sound like a Christian trying to explain away all the evidence that the Earth is older than 5,000 years.

Have you read what I wrote? Or did you just read that one line?

This is the first time someone can say "I don't want to pay 129$ to upgrade to new OS, I only want to upgrade my XCode. How much is it? 5$? Ok."

Before this, if you wanted new XCode, you had to pay 129$ because before this new XCodes did not work with old OS's.

XCode 2 was released with 10.4 and did not work with 10.3.

XCode 3 was released with 10.5 and did not work with 10.4.

XCode 4 is being released, with 10.7 basically but it works with 10.6 as well, again, for the first time. But for a 5$ fee.

Get it or do I need to make it even more clear?
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post #69 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tails View Post

Have you read what I wrote? Or did you just read that one line?

I read what you wrote, and it was so mental, I had to wash my synapses out with soap and water. If you have to redefine the usual meaning of "price" in order to defend an action of Apple's, it should be a hint to you that you're skating on thin ice (psychologically as well as factually).
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post #70 of 95
3/9/11 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I read what you wrote, and it was so mental, I had to wash my synapses out with soap and water. If you have to redefine the usual meaning of "price" in order to defend an action of Apple's, it should be a hint to you that you're skating on thin ice (psychologically as well as factually).

Ok, you read what I wrote but did you understand it?

Because you certainly sound like you didn't, at all.
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post #71 of 95
3/9/11 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tails View Post

Ok, you read what I wrote but did you understand it?

Because you certainly sound like you didn't, at all.

Yes I did understand it, I just think your interpretation of events in wrong. This is not Apple being magnanimous and giving us the 10.7 dev tools early for a small fee, it's them severing the OS X and Xcode release cycles, due to Xcode being as much (more?) about iOS now as OS X. And they are using the App Store to do it.
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post #72 of 95
3/9/11 at 7:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Yes I did understand it, I just think your interpretation of events in wrong. This is not Apple being magnanimous and giving us the 10.7 dev tools early for a small fee, it's them severing the OS X and Xcode release cycles, due to Xcode being as much (more?) about iOS now as OS X. And they are using the App Store to do it.

They are not severing the cycles.

Lion works with XCode 4.1, not with XCode 4.0. And Lion will most probably include XCode 4.1 for free anyway. So the new OS will come with the required XCode, as before.

People are freaking out like they "have to" pay 5$ to keep doing what they have been doing yesterday.

They don't.

You don't need XCode 4 to keep developing for 10.6 and iOS 4.3.
XCode 3.2 supports both.

You only need the 4.x if you want to develop for Lion, and possibly iOS 5.

And I'm not interpreting anything. I'm stating FACTS.

Fact: Apple never released a major XCode revision couple months before the major OS revision, until now.

Fact: Apple never charged any money for a major XCode revision for the old OS, until now.

Fact: Apple couldn't have charged any money for a major XCode revision for the old OS, because major XCode revisions did NOT work with the old OS to begin with, until now.

So this is EXACTLY Apple giving their new XCode for the old OS userbase, for a very small fee.

Like I said, if Apple doesn't include XCode 4.1 with Lion for free, only then you can complain. Because only then there's a change in their policy.

So far this policy has NOT changed: If you buy an OS, it'll include the required XCode for free.
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post #73 of 95
3/9/11 at 8:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by columbus View Post

...

It's a sign of the times. When Mac OS X 10.0 shipped Apple gave away all dev tools to encourage anyone to write for Apple's platforms. Now they don't need to, people will pay them to write for their platforms.


....

Until Xcode 4 and long before MacOS X 10.0, Apple's developer tools were free. It is disappointing that Apple now sees fit to charge for Xcode. I do take some solace in the fact that Xcode costs less than breakfast.
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post #74 of 95
3/9/11 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eno12 View Post

Objective-C is more or less just C with a smalltalk like interface for OOP. You NEED to understand how to program in C before you can learn Objective-C. That said, Apple has decent documentation on their Objective-C environment.

You do need to understand C and even have passing knowledge of C++ depending upon what you may end updoing on one of Apples OS'es. But do get C under your belt first. Well maybe concurrently as you learn Objective C which is really a thin layer above C.

Beyond that you really need to know object oriented programming concepts and especially MVC (model view controller). Depending upon you experience C is fairly easy to learn, what takes awhile is learning the API/SDK. It might be beneficial to look for training related to the SDK instead as the learning curve is larger.
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post #75 of 95
3/9/11 at 11:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschuur View Post

You can actually still get Xcode 4 for free, if you're a registered (for the free plan) member of the Apple developer portal.

Paying members will presumably get access to future betas, just like before Xcode 4 went final.

Edit: Scratch that. Free members are linked to the $4.99 app store download. Can't get it for free after all.

As a free developer, this is the first time Apple made me pay for XCode updates. Not that $4.99 is a lot.

I can understand that they kept the free developers from downloading the XCode beta, because there would have been even more leaks that were contrary to the NDA.

Still, Apple shouldn't target this large class of developers who actively contribute to add value to the platform, e.g., to lock their company into using Cocoa apps.
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post #76 of 95
3/10/11 at 12:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyngyrz View Post

No, it has nothing to do with hardware. It has to do with software and drivers. Which is exactly what I said. As for the percentage, I didn't make any claims about it being the majority, either. As for your "failed dev" comment, that's just idiotic. Is your blood sugar low?

I have to say that it is more than a failure it is just plain foolish. A developer that can't keep up or doesn't want to soon becomes useless.
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Thanks for posting. It's always amusing to be reminded that *anyone* can get on the Internet these days.

Yep even the Luddites.
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post #77 of 95
3/10/11 at 12:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanFruniken View Post

As a free developer, this is the first time Apple made me pay for XCode updates. Not that $4.99 is a lot.

Actually this is the 3rd time Apple makes you pay for XCode updates.

Can you point out when did you actually get a new XCode version without paying anything? That includes without buying a new OS to use it as well.
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post #78 of 95
3/10/11 at 1:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

Until Xcode 4 and long before MacOS X 10.0, Apple's developer tools were free. It is disappointing that Apple now sees fit to charge for Xcode. I do take some solace in the fact that Xcode costs less than breakfast.

XCode 4 might still be free, if it comes free with Lion.

So until then, stop whining.
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post #79 of 95
3/10/11 at 1:02am
First $5.00 is nothing. Especially considering what you have access to. Think about it, do you really believe Apple will make money on XCode at $5.00 a head? It is highly doubtful especially considering how many tools projects they are supporting right now.

Second it is a given that new software will require advance hardware support, that is why developers should avoid bargain basement hardware. It has been the case since the first ZpC hit the market, you either wait or throw more hardware at your tools. People should be happy that Apple has refactored XCode because frankly the old version was buggy as hell.

So really if you want to complain take the new XCode, find the bugs and report them to Apple. If $5.00 is to much for you skip a couple of beers this week.
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post #80 of 95
3/10/11 at 1:05am
Read for once before you post.

XCode 4 costs ONLY for Snow Leopard for now.

It might be free, like ALL the previous XCode updates, if you buy the OS upgrade as well.

So wait until Lion, and if Apple still charges 5$ for Lion users, whine then.
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