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Xcode 4 available to all on Apple's Mac App Store for $4.99 - Page 3

post #81 of 95
3/10/11 at 2:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyngyrz View Post

No, "everyone else" cannot purchase it, because a large portion of the user base never upgraded to Snow Leopard due to the huge range of compatibility problems (see snowleopard.wikidot.com), and the App Store is Snow Leopard only.

That's why The App Store and a whole bunch of other things have been artificially limited to Snow Leopard; they're trying to accumulate enough reasons to force the holdouts to switch -- unfortunately, this mechanism abuses their customers.

The correct path would to have been to ensure compatibility for the huge range of applications and drivers they broke with Snow Leopard. When they chose not to do that, they hard-forked the user base. No, not a typo.

Every iteration has left people behind, this is not news. Several examples on that site that I checked are outdated, so the list's existence isn't a good indication of anything. It's just a wiki, and its last update by anyone was two months ago. One example, the Ableton Live entry, is about 18 months out of date.
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post #82 of 95
3/10/11 at 2:59am
Does someone knows the build number?

Currently, I have my dev apps not on my start drive, only the Developer base folder.
The other parts are on another disk, plus I have a copy that I did alter to use it for hardware projects.

My question, is it still possible to still instal it where I want it?
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post #83 of 95
3/10/11 at 4:27am
The discussion of price is somewhat moot, because if all you want is a compiler you can use to generate software for the Mac, then you don't need to acquire it directly from Apple.

XCode's compiler is based upon LLVM, and LLVM is released under a free software license. Anybody who has already obtained XCode, has permission to isolate the LLVM compiler out of the package, and redistribute that compiler to anybody else for whatever fee they wish. Or they can give it away for free.

Now, Apple may use a proprietary license on the XCode IDE itself, so it may not be redistributable. But the IDE isn't strictly a mandatory component of the toolchain. It's a convenience for sure, but it's possible to use the compiler without it. It could be replaced by any standard text editor; the compiler or makefile can be invoked directly from the command line, and the result will be the same. So it's still free to develop applications for the Mac platform. It's just that the learning curve for people going down the free development path might have become a little bit steeper.

(But we don't even know that mush for sure. As has been pointed out earlier, it's entirely possible that when Lion comes out, the newest version of XCode will be included on the installation DVD, just like it has been with every previous edition of OS X.)
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post #84 of 95
3/10/11 at 4:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post

The discussion of price is somewhat moot, because if all you want is a compiler you can use to generate software for the Mac, then you don't need to acquire it directly from Apple.

XCode's compiler is based upon LLVM, and LLVM is released under a free software license. Anybody who has already obtained XCode, has permission to isolate the LLVM compiler out of the package, and redistribute that compiler to anybody else for whatever fee they wish. Or they can give it away for free.

Now, Apple may use a proprietary license on the XCode IDE itself, so it may not be redistributable. But the IDE isn't strictly a mandatory component of the toolchain. It's a convenience for sure, but it's possible to use the compiler without it. It could be replaced by any standard text editor; the compiler or makefile can be invoked directly from the command line, and the result will be the same. So it's still free to develop applications for the Mac platform. It's just that the learning curve for people going down the free development path might have become a little bit steeper.

(But we don't even know that mush for sure. As has been pointed out earlier, it's entirely possible that when Lion comes out, the newest version of XCode will be included on the installation DVD, just like it has been with every previous edition of OS X.)

If people only need the compilers, they can download XCode 3, which is free, install the compiler package, and then use those compilers to compile and install llvm.

Simple as that.
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post #85 of 95
3/10/11 at 7:27am
How come Xcode requires a password to install? From what I understand about the Mac App Store, this violates the terms of posting an App up there? Apple does not appear to be following their own rules, whereas all other developers have had to work around the limitation of not requiring a password in order to have apps up there. This was actually a little confusing as I expected the app to show up under Applications. I did a Spotlight search to open Xcode, but the previous version opened up. Finally, I saw that I downloaded the installer and had to install it. Again, this is not what the Mac App Store is supposed to do. Not the experience I was expecting.
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post #86 of 95
3/10/11 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quevar View Post

How come Xcode requires a password to install? From what I understand about the Mac App Store, this violates the terms of posting an App up there? Apple does not appear to be following their own rules, whereas all other developers have had to work around the limitation of not requiring a password in order to have apps up there. This was actually a little confusing as I expected the app to show up under Applications. I did a Spotlight search to open Xcode, but the previous version opened up. Finally, I saw that I downloaded the installer and had to install it. Again, this is not what the Mac App Store is supposed to do. Not the experience I was expecting.

Um... Yeah! The MAS is a delivery system, not just a way for 3rd-parties to sell their apps and they aren't disallowing 3rd-parties from selling their apps outside the MAS and requiring a system password.

Also note that I how you get Lion. By your reckoning if Apple I allowing themselves to distribute the next version of Mac OS X that Windows and every shitty Linux distro should also be able to be bought and installed via the MAS. Um... No!
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post #87 of 95
3/10/11 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by doh123 View Post

There is a really nice entry level ObjC/Cocoa book i like... its called "Beginning Mac Programming" by Isted. Its really nice and simple and explains programming concepts, and all its examples are in Xcode 3. It was a great beginners book in my opinion if you take it slowly and do all the examples... they build on top of each other through the book as you learn to do new things and add more features to the example programs.

its pretty cheap at amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Mac-.../dp/1934356514

you can use C code inside of ObjC, but they are not all that similar, and you do not really need to learn C first.

I just finished this book on Tuesday. After starting many other books, "Beginning Mac Programming" by Isted is the only one I finished. Now that I have a solid base understanding of Objective-C, I have moved on to "iPhone Programming: The Big Nerd Ranch Guide" by Hillegass. It too is proving to be an excellent resource.

I hope you pursue it.
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post #88 of 95
3/10/11 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quevar View Post

How come Xcode requires a password to install? From what I understand about the Mac App Store, this violates the terms of posting an App up there? Apple does not appear to be following their own rules, whereas all other developers have had to work around the limitation of not requiring a password in order to have apps up there. This was actually a little confusing as I expected the app to show up under Applications. I did a Spotlight search to open Xcode, but the previous version opened up. Finally, I saw that I downloaded the installer and had to install it. Again, this is not what the Mac App Store is supposed to do. Not the experience I was expecting.

Since Apple makes the rules for the Mac App Store, it follows that Apple has the prerogative to decide when, and for whom, exceptions can be made. So of course, they are allowed to exempt themselves.
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post #89 of 95
3/10/11 at 9:35am
Are people seriously complaining about $5 for Xcode 4? Yeesh.

Even at $100 (cost of the developer program) it's cheap. $5 is probably just to avoid having to serve the download to curiosity seekers who have no use for it but would decide to install it just to, "see what it is." There have always been some small hoops to jump through to get it: you had to at least sign up for a free developer account to download the latest version, or at least find it on your OS install discs. This is basically the App Store equivalent of that.

If they raise the price to $500, on top of the developer fee, then you'll have something to complain about. In the meantime, anyone trying to make a big deal about this is just engaging in hysteria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

You need a C and Objective-C curriculum designed to work together before going onto advanced exploration of Cocoa.

Here:

http://www.amazon.com/Programming-3r.../dp/0672326663

http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Ob...ref=pd_sim_b_2

http://www.amazon.com/C-Programming-...9703936&sr=1-4

Kochan has been entrenched in both technologies for decades.

King's book brings C up to C99 which is required if you ever want to learn OpenCL.

A lot of time will be spent learning the Compiler Suites. Whether it's GCC or LLVM you need to read their documentation thoroughly--it's always updating and in the Mailing Lists for Developers is where the real meat lies.

Excellent recommendations.
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post #90 of 95
3/10/11 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by columbus View Post

That's just cheeky.

It will be interesting to see if it comes on the Lion DVD/Flash Drive.

It's a sign of the times. When Mac OS X 10.0 shipped Apple gave away all dev tools to encourage anyone to write for Apple's platforms. Now they don't need to, people will pay them to write for their platforms.


Still £2.99 for Xcode 4 is better than the £709.99 for Microsoft's equivalent Visual Studio.

There is no comparison between XCode and VS. Visual Studio is more powerfull and useful tool. And you can get Visual Studio Express (which provides you the same functionaliy as XCode) for ... free.
American centrism dominates 50% of the population here. That half don't think outside the box ... or perhaps just don't think. © digitalclips
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American centrism dominates 50% of the population here. That half don't think outside the box ... or perhaps just don't think. © digitalclips
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post #91 of 95
3/10/11 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gin_tonic View Post

There is no comparison between XCode and VS. Visual Studio is more powerfull and useful tool. And you can get Visual Studio Express (which provides you the same functionaliy as XCode) for ... free.



Character limit.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #92 of 95
3/10/11 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

If someone can install their own app on devices without jailbreaking then what stops them from selling their own apps outside the app store?!

The app wouldn't be approved for other devices, just the development device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage

.so you just want to test and NOT sell them on the store?

Test it with no time limits or fees until it's clear you can make a return on it. Then pay to sell it on the store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage

can you clarify this " If you jailbreak, you can get it for free and it feels so much better knowing you are free to develop for your own hardware without one day Apple stopping your license"

... get what for free and what do you mean develop for your own hardware?

You get hardware debugging for free on a jailbroken iPhone. It's just for testing apps on your own hardware as you can't get access to everything via the XCode simulator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav

If all you are doing is testing apps, developers can build a version with your device's IMEI number that you can install using the iPhone Configuration Utility for you to test with. You don't need an iOS Dev membership at all.

You need to get a provisioning profile from Apple. Device installation and testing is one of the features of the $99 enrolment:

http://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/test.html

What you describe is how I'd expect it to work.
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post #93 of 95
3/13/11 at 3:59am
What have we come to when so many people on this thread are bitching, or at least moaning, about the fact that Xcode, is going to cost £2.99 ($5 in the US).

Let's repeat that cost shall we. £2.99. OK, and one last time. £2.99.

Here are some other things you can buy in the UK for £2.99:

Less than one pint of beer.
Less than two 175g bags of crisps (potato chips for our US friends, and soon to be the name over here I reckon \)
A 6 pack of Cadbury's chocolate Creme eggs
6 cans of diet Coke

Bear in mind also that it was reported about two years ago in the UK that most young people going out for a night with their mates expect to spend £50 to £60 on drinks per night!

Now, I'm not going to repeat what you get with Xcode but, seriously how anyone complain about this is completely beyond me. I continually read about people today having an "I want it all, I want it now and I want it for nothing" culture but this attitude beggars belief.

If you can bear to prise open your locked tight wallets long enough to extract the huge sum of £2.99, then have spent weeks and months developing your app - which will not do a tenth as much as Xcode and you will try to sell it for ... what exactly? £1? £10? £100?

And then you will read pages of people saying "Charging £1 for this sucks!" or "I can nick this from my mate for nothing, why would I want to pay £10 lousy quid for it?" Or "I'm not buying crappy software that only runs on Snow Leopard". Or similar. And then you will decide that maybe software is not what you thought and go back to flipping burgers in McDonalds.

Thankfully, from the Mac App store it is clear to see that even at the shocking price of £2.99 it's the 2nd highest grossing app.
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post #94 of 95
3/13/11 at 4:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gin_tonic View Post

There is no comparison between XCode and VS. Visual Studio is more powerfull and useful tool. And you can get Visual Studio Express (which provides you the same functionaliy as XCode) for ... free.

Please explain your reasoning (not about the 'free' bit)

Oh, and can you also explain how VS is a more useful tool than Xcode on an Apple Macintosh while you are at it?
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post #95 of 95
3/19/11 at 2:44pm
Myself and at least two others (see Apple discussion board link below) have experienced this -- during XCode 4 install process all mounted volumes are erased. My system is Mac Mini (Macmini3) with OS 10.6.6 and all latest updates. The installer froze, and when I manually rebooted all mounted volumes were empty; partitions were kept, one unmounted tech tools volume edisk was saved. This included internal volumes (two, Mac OS X and Windows) and four external drives (three Firewire and one USB). These externals contained documents and backups on separate drives and volumes.

A major hassle, tho it appears techie can recover my files, they will be flat (no directory structures) and no guarantee of function.

iTunes has refunded my XCode purchase price and offered me ten song credits as compensation. I am continuing discussions with them.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread....readID=2786401
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