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post #41 of 95
Thread Starter 
No? Try hockey. Hell, baseball is probably whiter.
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post #42 of 95
[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>No? Try hockey. Hell, baseball is probably whiter.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I bet there are more black hockey players than there are black PGA golfers. There is such thing as a black canadian, plus american blacks from northern states are taking it up these days.

Regardless, all the sports I can think of were invented by whites. Sporting in general is very white. It could be argued that the global popularity of sports is the result of white cultural diffusion.

[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: Splinemodel ]</p>
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post #43 of 95
[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:

<strong>No? Try hockey. Hell, baseball is probably whiter.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What are you talking about? Baseball is easily the most international of American sports. Take away all the players from Latin America and you'd have one seriously undertalented sport.

Anyway, my teams:

Baseball - the Red Sox
Football - the Niners
Basketball - the Celtics
NCAA Basketball - UConn
Hockey - I like hockey but I still haven't settled on a team to root for since the Whalers left town. I know. I know. It's about time for me to move on...
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post #44 of 95
Fantasy worlds are fun.

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post #45 of 95
Thread Starter 
Golf is very international. We're not talking just blacks here.
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post #46 of 95
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>Even so, there is no sport whiter than golf.</strong><hr></blockquote> Wrong statement. Correct answer is swimming
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post #47 of 95
I'm afraid when you say "white ass sport" you make it about race, not nationality.
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post #48 of 95
Hockey is a "White-ass sport"? More so than golf?? Golf is better because it's "more interntional"?


Holy shit in a shoebox Tiger - those are possibly two of the dumbest things I've ever heard you say. I try not to give you a hard time about some of your sports comments because you seem to take it personally, but you stepped over the line on this one. Let's examine the facts:


PGA Pros not of caucasian or SE Asian descent:
Tiger Woods
Vijay Singh
Someone help me out here.... uhhhh, errrrr, emmmm.


NHL Players not of caucasian or SE Asian descent
Anson Carter
Mike Grier
Kevin Weekes
Fred Brathwaite
Georges LeRaques
Peter Worrel
Donald Brashear
Jamal Mayers
JEROME IGINLA
JEAN-LUC GRAND-PIERRE
BRYCE SALVADOR

Scott Gomez (Inuit, Hispanic)
David Tanabe (Native American)
Craig Berube (Native American)
Chris Simon (Native American)
Manny Malhotra (Native American)

About a half-dozen SE Asian and Hispanic players not listed...

POINT IS: neither is well-integrated racially, but for you to pretend like Golf is on a whole other plane is retarded. In fact, AFAICT, the NHL has *more* minorities playing than the PGA. Truth hurts, huh?


Let's move on to your brilliant "more international" point of analysis.


Countries that have PGA Pros other than US/Canada:
England, Scotland, Ireland, Sweden (3?), Spain(2), Germany (1?), Italy (1?), South Africa (3?), Japan (3?), Korea ?, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji (1), others?

Now - how many of those players are NOT white? 1? 2?


Countries that have NHL Pros other than US/Canada
Norway, Sweden, Finland, Latvia (&lt;5), Lithuania (&lt;5), Belarus (&lt;5), Slovakia, Czech Republic, Slovenia (&lt;5), Russia, Ukrane, Austria (&lt;5), Germany (2), Switzerland (3)....

And where race is concerned, pretty much the same as the PGA. None of these guys AFAIK is non-caucasian.


AGAIN, there is no basis for saying Hockey is a white-ass sport, and then turning around and pretending like golf isn't. If anything, it's *worse* - fewer black pros, [far lower percentage of pros] from non-North American countries.

Give it up.

[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]

[ 10-09-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
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post #49 of 95
Thread Starter 
You named 2 people LOL.
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post #50 of 95
Right. As in, I can't think of any others on the PGA tour who fit the profile we're talking about. If I'm so off-base, name some more PGA tour pros who are not [caucasian] / from Japan or Korea.

I guess you could include someone like Robert Gamez, though I'd consider him to be just as "white" as Sergio or JM Olazabal - or any [other caucasian] from N. American or Europe.

I'm open to [corrections if I've misstated something]. Let's see your proof that the PGA is more racially integrated than the NHL.

[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
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post #51 of 95
[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>Who the f*ck cares about hockey, f*ckin white @$$ sport.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Leave it up to Tiger to take a civil debate, and turn it into a racially charged pissing contest.

Tiger.. You still havent addressed my points, you just throw insults around. I guess you prove the old proverb true: You really cant have a battle of wits, with an unarmed person.
post #52 of 95
Thread Starter 
Exactly, so don't try to debate something you don't know of.
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post #53 of 95
Apparently, Dallenb, the NHL is just another case of the man keepin' us down. It's all about whitey and his secret political agendas...

...the good news is, for those of us who are down with the NHL, season starts TOMORROW. wOOT!

The better news is, I have NHL Center Ice this year. Can you say "Yyyyyyeahh, baby!"

[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
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post #54 of 95
[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
Exactly, so don't try to debate something you don't know of.<hr></blockquote>


IOW, you have nothing to say other than "I'm right", followed by silence. Still waiting for evidence that the PGA is all about racial equality and international goodwill, and that the NHL is just a white man's sport with closed doors to the world.

[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
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post #55 of 95
Thread Starter 
You want a damn list then?
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post #56 of 95
Tiger- you're walking a fine line here. It was only weeks ago that you were suspended...
post #57 of 95
Thread Starter 
Tiger Woods
Sergio Garcia
Vijay Singh
Michael Campbell
Eduardo Romero
Angel Cabrera
Shigeki Maruyama
Jose Maria Olazabal
Toshi Izawa
Jose Coceres
K.J. Choi
Shingo Katayama
Toru Taniguchi
Ricardo Gonzalez
Tsuneyuki Nakajima
Nobuhito Sato
Taichi Teshima
Masashi Jumbo Ozaki
Hidemichi Tanaka
Katsumasa Miyamoto
S.K. Ho
Miguel A. Jimenez
Kenichi Kuboya
Tomohiro Kondou
Esteban Toledo
Yasuharu Imano
Christian Pena
David Berganio, Jr.
Phil Tataurangi
Naomichi Joe Ozaki
Charlie Wi
Lin Keng-chi
Zhang Lian-wei
Toru Suzuki
Kiyoshi Murota
Notah Begay III
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post #58 of 95
Are there more than 2 names on this list with internation recognision?

<a href="http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/020305/6/klfg.html" target="_blank">Read This</a>

Discussion on racism in Golf is not new at all. It's been there for ages

[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: kelib ]</p>
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post #59 of 95
Thread Starter 
Just about all those players are Top 100 in the world.
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post #60 of 95
Take your race-war baiting bullsh!t somewhere else.
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post #61 of 95
cross-country skiing has to be the whitest of sports...
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post #62 of 95
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>cross-country skiing has to be the whitest of sports...</strong><hr></blockquote> And swimming. I don't think there's any black swimmer among the worlds top-200
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post #63 of 95
Collage BBall: Terps
Collage FBall: Terps
NFL: Ravens/Packers
MLB: None since strick crap
Soccer: Blast
Golf: Phil Mickelson (Oh no, a white boy!)
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post #64 of 95
Thread Starter 
Lefty will never win a major.
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post #65 of 95
Skiing in general is a pretty white sport... ha....
post #66 of 95
[quote]Originally posted by kelib:
<strong> And swimming. I don't think there's any black swimmer among the worlds top-200</strong><hr></blockquote>

maybe black people aren't good at swimming. I mean white people aparently aren't good at basketball so it's now absurd to think black people aren't good at swimming.
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post #67 of 95
I should've known you'd do this, Tiger. Desperate arguments call for desperate rationalizations.

Tiger Woods - Yes
Sergio Garcia - No (Italians are white, but Spaniards aren't, right? You are clueless.)
Vijay Singh - Yes
Michael Campbell - Unsure
Eduardo Romero - Unsure
Angel Cabrera - No (Spanish)
Shigeki Maruyama - No
Jose Maria Olazabal - No (Spanish)
Toshi Izawa - No
Jose Coceres - Unsure
K.J. Choi - No
Shingo Katayama - No
Toru Taniguchi - No
Ricardo Gonzalez - Unsure
Tsuneyuki Nakajima - No
Nobuhito Sato - No
Taichi Teshima -No
Masashi Jumbo Ozaki - No
Hidemichi Tanaka - No
Katsumasa Miyamoto - No
S.K. Ho - No
Miguel A. Jimenez - No (Spanish)
Kenichi Kuboya - No
Tomohiro Kondou - No
Esteban Toledo - No (Spanish?)
Yasuharu Imano - No
Christian Pena - No
David Berganio, Jr. - Unsure
Phil Tataurangi - Unsure
Naomichi Joe Ozaki - No
Charlie Wi - No
Lin Keng-chi - No
Zhang Lian-wei - No
Toru Suzuki - No
Kiyoshi Murota - No
Notah Begay III - Unsure, but probably Yes


CAN YOU READ? Did you not see the criteria in my post? Criteria which, btw, YOU brought into this discussion by debating what was a "white" sport and what wasn't. And what was an "international" sport and what wasn't.

Southeast Asians do not qualify as "non-white", and Spaniards most *certainly* do not qualify. They're the *original whitey* - remember?? Most demographics (and social norms) group people from SE Asia (not including the Pacific Islands like Hawaii and Fiji) into the "whitey" camp, I'm afraid.

Frankly, I wouldn't even include "hispanics" (those from Central or South America, or Mexico) as "non-white", but since society does in many instances, I included for your posterity. I guess this is done because many "hispanics" have some indiginous S. America heritage as well as Spanish heritage.

I guess though, you HAD to list players from Japan and Korea (many of whom are not regular PGA pros), because if you DIDN'T, you'd have about 6 people on your list...

RIGHT??

If you want, let's just cut through the bullshit and ask "How many non-white people of African descent play for the NHL, and how many are regular PGA Tour pros?"

Oh wait - I already won that contest. I also proved Hockey is not an isolationist N. American sport. So what's left there, Tiga? Watcha got?

[ 10-09-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
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post #68 of 95
Thread Starter 
You are basically an idiot.

Those names are basically Top 100 international rankings, not counting many PGA Tour players and other professionals who are not white.

What's your criteria? Smoking crack? Oh I get it, Asians all of a sudden became white. Gee, that makes perfect sense now, I guess I was wrong all along. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

You see, half of the people you put as Spanish are not even Spanish. And I guess by your logic we can't call someone from Asia international. Hell, I wasn't aware we all had Japanese passports nowadays. You claimed hockey was a more international game than golf is. Golf is played in just about every nation of the world.

Hispanic doesn't count? Latino doesnt? Then what does? This isn't black and white here.

You honestly want me to get into black/white, I'll list PGA pros. The number will easily be double that of the NHL.

Who watches hockey? Oh that's right, no one does. Lots of people watch golf now, and as far as I'm concerned the course I play at is frequented by African Americans.

Who is the sport dominated by? A non-caucasian. It's no secret that golf has evolved from it's past.
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post #69 of 95
[quote]Originally posted by G4Dude:
<strong>

maybe black people aren't good at swimming. I mean white people aparently aren't good at basketball so it's now absurd to think black people aren't good at swimming.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I've been told that the average black man has denser bones, making floating a bit more difficult. Side note: I hope people realize that physical attributes are no way to measure the value of an ethnic group.


And Tiger: Spaniards aren't Latinos. When the spanish came to the Americas, they mixed with the natives. Most Mexicans bear little resemblance to Spaniards. Yes, the Spanish have a bit of North African/Arabic heritage, but so do the modern Italians. Plus, Spain is in europe, which is in fact the source of white culture.
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post #70 of 95
Thread Starter 
Tell me where I said they were...
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post #71 of 95
TW, are you trying to be completely unlikeable?
post #72 of 95
I'm an idiot, Tiger? Lets see:

You say half the people I listed as Spanish are not. I listed 5 people as being from Spain, I know for a fact that at least 4 of them ARE because they've played on the Ryder Cup. That's America vs. EUROPE, remember? Garcia, Olazabal, Jiminez, and Cabrera - all Spanish, all have played on Ryder Cup teams. The one guy I listed as Spanish but was unsure of, I put a QUESTION MARK next to his name. That indicates I am open to correction / unsure. With me so far, brainiac?

Secondly, if you disagree so strongly with my classification of SE Asians "white", why didn't you say so from the start?? The fact is, if you look at many demographic surveys (from employers, federal, state, and local governments, etc.), people from this region are not usually separated from the classification of "white". I'm not arguing whether or not this makes any sense - that's another thread entirely. I'm simply saying that's they way things currnently are. OK?!

I am not arbitrarily making this up and I NEVER said ANYTHING about a person's behavior (i.e. smoking crack) defining their racial status ... you said that, not me. I don't think like that - period. The fact that you'd say something like that says quite a bit about your maturity level.

Last but not least we're talking about PGA tour regulars. Not the Euro tour, not the Nike tour, not the African or Asian tours - the PGA. Note many of the PGA tour regulars are on both the European and PGA tours - so there's no exclusion there. It's PGA vs. NHL. Otherwise, I should include in my lists: the CHL, AHL, ECHL, WHL, etc. etc. - and my list would expand, believe me.

As for "who watches" hockey - wtf difference does that make? YOU said it was a white man's sport (and that golf isn't), and you also inferred it is not an international sport the way golf is...and frankly, you are dead-wrong and you know it.


PS - you can list more than twice the number of African-American players from the P-G-A, than I listed for the NHL? That means you have to list AT LEAST [23] African-American players on the PGA tour. There are at least 11 I know of that are regulars in the NHL. More still in the other leagues I spoke of, which are equivalent to golf's Nike Tour.

You show me [the names and links] I'll back off. I have updated my list, new African-American players I couldn't remember from yesterday listed in ALL CAPS. Also added a few players of Native American descent I forgot about. [snip - edited out of shear kindness]

<img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> :eek: <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

[ 10-09-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
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post #73 of 95
[quote]Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce:
<strong>TW, are you trying to be completely unlikeable?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not entirely sure he has to try to be unlikeable. He still has not addressed one of my responses to him. Well, I am not including the times his response reminded me of my 2yr old niece. She just sticks her tongue out and runs away. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

**edit Wish this forum had a spellchecker

[ 10-09-2002: Message edited by: Dallenb ]</p>
post #74 of 95
Thread Starter 
If you want to list other hockey leagues, then I can list PGA, European, Buy.com, Australasian PGA, South African PGA, South American, Japanese, Asian, Canadian.....etc. You said I'm making up stuff yet you are making up sh*t as far as I'm concerned. Cabrera isn't even Spanish...he is from Argentina. You listed others too who weren't Spanish besides the notables like Garcia, Olazabal, and Jimenez. Toledo is Mexican, you listed Hispanic. As far as countires with PGA tour players you failed to list many, and the original statement coming from you was that hockey was more of an international game than golf. Doesn't international include Asian, South American, Hispanic, Latino etc etc?

Look on any SAT, ACT, College application, job application and you'll see that there are categories of Asian or Pacific for race. Suddenly you are turning Asians into whites, which makes no sense at all but for your benefit solely in this debate.

This the original statement that the NHL is far more diverse and international is nullified.

Oh, and the Nike Tour doesn't exist.
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post #75 of 95
Dude, don't turn this around on me. I never said a damn thing until you came in here and started all your "hockey is a white-ass sport" and "golf is more international" crap.

And I'm the one who's trying to keep it simple - NHL vs. PGA. This is retarded.

Just tell me what criteria you want to use and I'll prove to you that professional golf is no more racially balanced than hockey is. Remember: I never said "hockey is a sport for all races" or anything like that. I said NEITHER hockey or golf is well integrated. Go back and look if you don't remember.

Just tell me how you want to do this and I'll prove you wrong.

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post #76 of 95
Golf is a "white-ass" sport under any set of criteria you could imagine. The very fact that Thug Life tries to argue it attests to it being an incontrovertable fact.

The first of you that stops this inane argument gets a big internet cookie from me.
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post #77 of 95
Thread Starter 
Giving the thesaurus a good work out tonight eh grover?
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post #78 of 95
Ha.

Actually I picked up the word "incontrovertable" years ago when I was 12ish listening to Pink Floyd.

On "The Trial" off The Wall

Odd that I remember that.

---||---

On topic, my team plays the evil bastards from the University of Oklahoma (if that joke of an academic institution can be called a university) on 10/12. The barbarian horde has invaded my beloved state for years with their IROC-Zs and mullets, they will pay!

OU SUCKS!
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post #79 of 95
Thread Starter 
Hehe. Who was it that OU just barely nipped by not so long ago? I remember watching the game and really Oklahoma should've lost.
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post #80 of 95
grover,i'm sure it will hurt a lot when my iroc driving, mullet wearing buddies beat your precious steer humpers in dallas. but then again, you've had the last couple of years to get used to the idea.

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