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Failsafe nuclear power stations fail in Japan. - Page 3

post #81 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Once they are developed, yes. You are attempting to predict the future. Great! That's fine. Perhaps you are even right. We won't know until we get there of course...and there may be many more barriers to getting there than we current realize. But, as for the present...this is what we have now. I truly applaud all those who freely undertake to research and invent new technologies (in energy or other areas) to enable us to have all the energy we need and want, inexpensively and safely. However:

Here's the way we will probably go : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3

Quote:
Helium-3 (He-3) is a light, non-radioactive isotope of helium with two protons and one neutron. It is rare on Earth, and is sought for use in nuclear fusion research. The abundance of helium-3 is thought to be greater on the Moon (embedded in the upper layer of regolith by the solar wind over billions of years) and the solar system's gas giants (left over from the original solar nebula), though still low in quantity (28 ppm of lunar regolith is helium-4 and from 0.01 ppm to 0.05 ppm is helium-3).[1] [2]

The helion, the nucleus of a helium-3 atom, consists of two protons but only one neutron, in contrast to two neutrons in ordinary helium. Its existence was first proposed in 1934 by the Australian nuclear physicist Mark Oliphant while based at Cambridge University's Cavendish Laboratory, in an experiment in which fast deuterons were reacted with other deuteron targets (the first demonstration of nuclear fusion).[3] Helium-3, as an isotope, was postulated to be radioactive, until helions from it were accidentally identified as a trace "contaminant" in a sample of natural helium (which is mostly helium-4) from a gas well, by Luis W. Alvarez and Robert Cornog in a cyclotron experiment at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, in 1939.[4] The presence of helium-3 in underground gas deposits implied that it either did not decay or had an extremely long half-life compatible with a primordial isotope.

Helium-3 is proposed as a second-generation fusion fuel for fusion power uses. Tritium, with a 12-year half-life, decays into helium-3, which can be recovered. Irradiation of lithium in a nuclear reactor — either a fusion or fission reactor — can also produce tritium, and thus (after decay) helium-3.

And another good reason to go back to the moon as well.

http://www.asi.org/adb/02/09/he3-intro.html
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post #82 of 179
Good article here in the Japan Times, by someone probably better qualified on the subject than anyone here, to hazard a guess.

A factor is mentioned that has been (predictably) overlooked in this thread: Cutting corners for the sake of profit.

How did we "forget" that?

\
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post #83 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I never posted that. You did not "rejoice" as far as I can tell. But you did use this unspeakable disaster to push anti-nuclear views. Just admit it.

Argue with the timing all you want, but what is happening here (if you fail to understand the science) seemed to support his views. When you acquire new evidence, seems reasonable to put it forward. Now, he's utterly wrong. But this seems to be a silly thing to get upset at him about.

Imagine Obama doing something you don't like after a national tragedy. Come on...you're really going keep your mouth shut and not mention it?

 

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post #84 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Good article here in the Japan Times, by someone probably better qualified on the subject than anyone here, to hazard a guess.

A factor is mentioned that has been (predictably) overlooked in this thread: Cutting corners for the sake of profit.

How did we "forget" that?

\

That's not an argument against nuclear power. That's an argument for tougher government regulation. But again, meltdown proof plants are all we need. Those exist. Build the fuckers and get us off coal and oil.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #85 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

That's not an argument against nuclear power. That's an argument for tougher government regulation. But again, meltdown proof plants are all we need. Those exist. Build the fuckers and get us off coal and oil.

I didn't post it to be an argument against nuclear power. It just illustrates that certain things have to be properly regulated... or problems can ensue. And that's from someone not in favor of big government.

I agree with you.. build nukes with new technology. Decommission the old hardware. But exploit solar etc as much as possible as well. JUst get us off the traditional "setting fire to carbon based stuff" road.
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post #86 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

I didn't post it to be an argument against nuclear power. It just illustrates that certain things have to be properly regulated... or problems can ensue. And that's from someone not in favor of big government.

I agree with you.. build nukes with new technology. Decommission the old hardware. But exploit solar etc as much as possible as well. JUst get us off the traditional "setting fire to carbon based stuff" road.

Then we are in agreement. Huzzah!

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #87 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Then we are in agreement. Huzzah!

From that article, it implies that the pursuit of profit before safety has backfired on the nuclear power industry. The bad PR from this incident is already damaging a product that many have been suspicious of (in the light of other publicized accidents in history... resulting from bad design, human error and cutting corners). Shame.
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post #88 of 179
Thread Starter 
Don't worry? WTF!-

"A former nuclear power plant designer has said Japan is facing an extremely grave crisis and called on the government to release more information, which he said was being suppressed. Masashi Goto told a news conference in Tokyo that one of the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi plant was highly unstable, and that if there was a meltdown the consequences would be tremendous. He said such an event might be very likely indeed. So far, the government has said a meltdown would not lead to a sizeable leak of radioactive materials.

Mr Goto said the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear plant were suffering pressure build-ups way beyond that for which they were designed. There was a severe risk of an explosion, with radioactive material being strewn over a very wide area beyond the 20km evacuation zone set up by the authorities he added. Mr Goto calculated that because Reactor No 3 at Fukushima-Daiichi where pressure is rising and there is a risk of an explosion used a type of fuel known as Mox, a mixture of p lutonium oxide and uranium oxide, the radioactive fallout from any meltdown might be twice as bad.
He described the worst-case scenario: It is difficult to say, but that would be a core meltdown. If the rods fall and mix with water, the result would be an explosion of solid material like a volcano spreading radioactive material. Steam or a hydrogen explosion caused by the mix would spread radioactive waste more than 50km. Also, this would be multiplied. There are many reactors in the area so there would be many Chernobyls.

He accused the government of deliberately withholding vital information that would allow outside experts help solve the problems. For example, there has not been enough information about the hydrogen being vented. We dont know how much was vented and how radioactive it was. He also described the use of sea water to cool the cores of the reactors at Fukushima-Daiichi as highly unusual and dangerous."
~ http://www.realnewsreporter.com/?p=954
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post #89 of 179
Japan's nuclear crisis and Chernobyl: key differences:

Quote:
Robert Engel, former IAEA inspector and Swiss nuclear engineer told Reuters Sunday that a partial meltdown of a reactor is not a disaster and that he doubted a complete meltdown is possible. And the details of the current Japanese reactor crisis bear little similarity to the Soviet-era meltdown at Chernobyl, which came about through design flaws and human error before it spread a radioactive cloud across much of Europe and Asia 25 years ago.

Quote:
But this situation has no relation to Chernobyl, even though I realize that in the popular lore, if you say Chernobyl, it means 'catastrophic meltdown.'

Quote:
The Japanese reactors are a completely different design known as Boiling Water Reactors, which are old and tested, and have three quite elaborate systems of containment designed to constrain radioactive leakage, points out Josef Oehmen, a research scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) in Cambridge, Mass. The third containment is designed, built, and tested for one single purpose: To contain, indefinitely, a complete core meltdown, he writes.

Quote:
"After it's all cooled down, it may well still be possible to simply remove the fuel and dispose of it in a relatively normal procedure," said Mr. Grimes. "What's clear, because of the incidental radiation being released at the moment, which is significant but not overwhelming, is that the structure of the core is probably still intact. So it's not as bad as Three Mile Island."

Quote:
Japanese officials say the radioactivity emitted from the venting process is not significant enough to cause harm to humans, a point with which Mr. Oehmen appears to agree.

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post #90 of 179
Explosion at #3 reactor a few minutes ago. Larger than the #1 explosion.

3 meter tsunami warning also... Japan's SDF saw a drawback of 5 meters...

The news is going crazy here.

CNN is still showing video shot this morning. BBC is already live.

 

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post #91 of 179
Thread Starter 
Quote:

"The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) is an international organization that seeks to promote the peaceful use of nuclear energy..."
~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna..._Energy_Agency

From an interesting but scary, piece in the NYT-

"...Fukushima was designed by General Electric, just as Oyster Creek was, at about the same time, and the two plants are very similar, he said....

The emergency flooding of two stricken reactors with seawater and the resulting steam releases are a desperate step intended to avoid a much bigger problem: a full meltdown of the nuclear cores in two reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station.

To pump in the water, the Japanese have apparently tried used [sic] fire-fighting equipment — hardly the usual procedure. But forcing the seawater inside the containment vessel has been extraordinarily difficult, because the pressure in the vessel has become so great.

One American official likened the process to “trying to pour water into an inflated balloon,” and said that on Sunday it was “not clear how much water they are getting in, or whether they are covering the cores.”

The problem was compounded because gauges inside the reactor seemed to have been damaged in the earthquake or the tsunami, making it impossible to know just how much water is in the core.

And workers attempting the pumping operation are presumed to be exposed to radiation; several workers, according to Japanese reports, have been treated for radiation poisoning. It is not clear how severe their exposure was.

But Pentagon officials reported Sunday that helicopters flying 60 miles from the plant picked up small amounts of radioactive particulates — still being analyzed, but presumed to include Cesium-137 and Iodine-121 —"
~ http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/wo...nted=1&_r=1&hp
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post #92 of 179
Japan's weather center now announcing they have no firm evidence of a tsunami. This time they were quick.

 

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post #93 of 179
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Explosion at #3 reactor a few minutes ago. Larger than the #1 explosion.

3 meter tsunami warning also... Japan's SDF saw a drawback of 5 meters...

The news is going crazy here.

CNN is still showing video shot this morning. BBC is already live.

Stay safe. I'd leave.
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post #94 of 179
Government is announcing now that this explosion was similar to the one yesterday and that the containment shell is intact.

600+ people still have not been evacuated from the area and are ordered to remain indoors. They must be stressed.

The government is getting better at announcing things. The other day the announcements regarding the plant were sloppy at best, leading to a lot of misunderstanding.

Then the blackouts info was dropped and things went wild again.

Now today as they were trying to come to grips with the blackouts this happens. I will hand it to the news stations here: the are doing a fantastic job and some of their guests have been amazingly informative. That is not to say that the people are following everything because there is an information overload for many right now.

 

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post #95 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Stay safe. I'd leave.

I'm way to the south. We didn't even feel the 9.0 quake the other day.

We did have the volcano up the way erupt yesterday...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...tory?track=rss

But there's another volcano in a slightly different direction that has erupted over 1000 times in the past year.

 

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post #96 of 179
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

I'm way to the south. We didn't even feel the 9.0 quake the other day.

We did have the volcano up the way erupt yesterday...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...tory?track=rss

But there's another volcano in a slightly different direction that has erupted over 1000 times in the past year.

Sounds like paradise

I'd be worried about the wind directions if there are meltdowns. Who knows if that will happen but if it does it could be really bad.
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post #97 of 179
Right now radiation levels seem to be low around the #3, but winds are going out to sea so it might take a while to determine exactly how much was released. There are injuries at the plant.

The media are doing a very god job from yesterday trying to educate people regarding reactors and radiation levels.

---

In other news: it was just announced that 2000 bodies have been found near Miyagi Prefecture.

---

This is going to be another long day here.

 

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post #98 of 179
Thank you Bergermeister for keeping us in the loop. It is helpful to get a perspective from a person who is actually in the area that is effected. Nice to know that you were not effected by the earthquake physically. I hope that it remains that way for you. I hope the worst you have to deal with directly is blackouts.
NoahJ
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post #99 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Right now radiation levels seem to be low around the #3, but winds are going out to sea so it might take a while to determine exactly how much was released. There are injuries at the plant.

The media are doing a very god job from yesterday trying to educate people regarding reactors and radiation levels.

---

In other news: it was just announced that 2000 bodies have been found near Miyagi Prefecture.

---

This is going to be another long day here.

There is a difference between "radiation" and radioactive material. Radiation is the fast moving protons, neutrons, electrons and X-rays. They are from the reaction and dissipate quickly when the reaction is under control. They don't blow with the wind. There's no indication that the current levels above the nominal readings for normal operations. I would be willing to bet that any spike in the reading at the explosion was just from the sensitive equipment being jolted.

Radioactive material is atoms that have been activated and will decay giving off radiation. That comes in different forms from metals, gasses and liquids. That can be released and blow in the wind and stick to stuff and get inside people and cause all kinds of damage. It all has a half life and will decay away inventively. 10 half lives is the nominal amount of time for an element to decay to a save level. We're told that containment vessels are all intact so there is no reason to think any radioactive material has escaped. But at the same time they are having trouble venting the gas pressure in the vessel. With the pile over hot they could have some radioactive vapor coming off of it?

Having said all that I'm surprised they are having so much trouble shutting this whole thing down. I wish I knew more about the shutdown timeline for normal and emergency operation.
post #100 of 179
Canada's National Post has weighed in on the history behind the Japanese Nuke situation. And it's not complimentary.
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post #101 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Argue with the timing all you want, but what is happening here (if you fail to understand the science) seemed to support his views. When you acquire new evidence, seems reasonable to put it forward. Now, he's utterly wrong. But this seems to be a silly thing to get upset at him about.

Well, I don't. I think it's disgusting. Here we have an unprecedented natural disaster. We had one of the largest quakes ever recorded strike just North of the reactor, causing near (and still possible) catastrophe. And he's going to use this disaster to debate the overall safety of nuclear power? It's like arguing that your car wasn't designed right after you hit a wall at 100 MPH. "It had airbags....cars are unsafe!!!" says Hands. Please.

Oh, and more to point: Nuclear power is practically the "airplane" of electricity generation in terms of safety. The only major disaster ever was Chernobyl, and that involved a horrifically maintained and designed reactor. Three Mile Island suffered a partial and contained meltdown in 1979, though no fatalities or casualties were reported during or post-accident as confirmed by the NRC and other studies (incidentally, I grew up about 30 miles from TMI and have seen it many times).

Quote:

Imagine Obama doing something you don't like after a national tragedy. Come on...you're really going keep your mouth shut and not mention it?

I'm not sure I see the correlation. We're not talking about criticizing a response to a disaster. I don't even think we're talking about a politician using that disaster to psuh an agenda (such as Obama has done with offshore drilling, apparently). At least, that's not what I've gotten thus far. Instead, Hands is proselytizing re: nuclear power. He's using this natural disaster to do it. I find that objectionable.
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post #102 of 179
This being a gen II reactor the water coolant is pumped under high pressure into the core to cool and moderate the reaction. The water slows the neutrons down to "thermal" speed which is where the cross section of interaction is higher. So loosing the water would stop the reaction. But then hte heat is not taken out of the system. That cooling water is kept in a closed loop it seems. But now they must be using sea water to cool and not running it in a closed loop? Hummm?
post #103 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Canada's National Post has weighed in on the history behind the Japanese Nuke situation. And it's not complimentary.

Operator error, cutting corners, deliberate coverups, profit maximization at the expense of safety... oh my...

Human nature? That's designated to the swing top filing cabinet in the (numerous) instances where the notion of the "self regulated marketplace" and "civilized society" clash.
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post #104 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Operator error, cutting corners, deliberate coverups, profit maximization at the expense of safety... oh my...

Human nature? That's designated to the swing top filing cabinet in the (numerous) instances where the notion of the "self regulated marketplace" and "civilized society" clash.

Of course the exact same thing happens, maybe even worse, in government run operations.
post #105 of 179
And now the Wall Street Journal enters the fray, with some information I found truly educational.

I wouldn't have guessed the core of a nuclear reactor operates at a temperature slightly above a conventional kitchen oven.
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post #106 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

And now the Wall Street Journal enters the fray, with some information I found truly educational.

I wouldn't have guessed the core of a nuclear reactor operates at a temperature slightly above a conventional kitchen oven.

Uranium melts around 1400 K or 1132 C for those using the metric scale.
post #107 of 179
Thread Starter 
This from the NYT-

"They're basically in a full-scale panic" among Japanese power industry managers, said a senior nuclear industry executive.

The executive is not involved in managing the response to the reactors' difficulties but has many contacts in Japan. "They're in total disarray, they don't know what to do."
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post #108 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Of course the exact same thing happens, maybe even worse, in government run operations.

That's debatable.... it "works" both ways. I have relatives in the UK and they recall the fiasco after the privatization of British Rail. Fares rocketed, services were axed, stations weere closed, and accidents soared. (But shareholders were laughing their way to the bank). It all depends on what aspects of an industry one considers of the greater importance when providing a service to the public. Of course, then one can consider the inefficiency/corruption in the Pentagon and its budgeting.. and we're off the scale there.

One thing left out of this discussion is the high regard the Japanese people have for honor, to the extent that it is difficult for Japanese government officials to admit that their innate sense of order has gone terribly wrong... perhaps to the extent of not full disclosure of the potential hazards in the affected power stations, and also the amount of radiation and radioactive materials might have already been released.
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post #109 of 179
Thread Starter 
From the Guardian-

"The Guardian has also posted a newly released diplomatic cable obtained by WikiLeaks, which records that a high profile Japanese politician told US diplomats that the Japanese government department responsible for nuclear energy has been "covering up nuclear accidents and obscuring the true costs and problems associated with the nuclear industry"."

"In describing the clout wielded by the electric companies, Kono claimed that a Japanese television station had planned a three part interview with him on nuclear issues, but had canceled after the first interview, because the electric companies threatened to withdraw their extensive sponsorship."
~http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-e...cuments/175295
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post #110 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

That's debatable.... it "works" both ways. I have relatives in the UK and they recall the fiasco after the privatization of British Rail. Fares rocketed, services were axed, stations weere closed, and accidents soared. (But shareholders were laughing their way to the bank). It all depends on what aspects of an industry one considers of the greater importance when providing a service to the public. Of course, then one can consider the inefficiency/corruption in the Pentagon and its budgeting.. and we're off the scale there.

One thing left out of this discussion is the high regard the Japanese people have for honor, to the extent that it is difficult for Japanese government officials to admit that their innate sense of order has gone terribly wrong... perhaps to the extent of not full disclosure of the potential hazards in the affected power stations, and also the amount of radiation and radioactive materials might have already been released.

My wife I were just talking about Japanese and their honor having just watched the Freakonomic movie. They had that part about the cheating in Sumo wresting. To me clinging to honor does more harm that good. What's more dishonorable? Pointing our your superior's mistake or mistakenly pointing out your superior's error? It doesn't matter either way the cause of safety is not served.
post #111 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

...the privatization of British Rail. Fares rocketed, services were axed, stations weere closed...

These might merely indicate that the fares did not reflect the true cost of delivering the service, that the cost to deliver certain services could not be paid for at the prices people were willing to pay, and that the cost of maintaining and operating certain stations could not be paid for based on their volume or usage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

...and accidents soared.

The increase in accidents is definitely unfortunate and the newly privatized company(ies) should be held 100% liable for their role in any property damage, injury or death. This liability risk would operate as a governor on negligence and carelessness.

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post #112 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

My wife I were just talking about Japanese and their honor having just watched the Freakonomic movie. They had that part about the cheating in Sumo wresting. To me clinging to honor does more harm that good. What's more dishonorable? Pointing our your superior's mistake or mistakenly pointing out your superior's error? It doesn't matter either way the cause of safety is not served.

Surely so. But this can get into a dodgy area when it comes to government conduct: Whistleblowing. In Japan, such things are verboten. In many nations, pointing out criminality, irresponsibility, corruption, favoritism, cronyism and other negativities in government is often treated as a crime in itself. Depending on circumstances, such activity can be regarded as the actions of either a traitor, or a patriot..... but thats a whole thread's worth of discussion, and potentially controversial.

Carry on!
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #113 of 179
Thread Starter 
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #114 of 179
Thread Starter 
A rupture may have occurred inside the containment vessel at Fukushima's number two reactor, Japan's NHK public broadcaster is reporting.

Although details are only slowly emerging about the explosion that was heard there a short time ago, technicians have been told to evacuate the area

A nuclear export told the broadcaster that there may have been a radioactive leak as a result of the explosion at the vessel, which is supposed to prevent radiation from leaking out.

The explosion appears to be related to a fault with the suppression pool at the very bottom of the containment vessel. Steam is brought down to the pool and is used to cool the reactor.
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog...ear-alert-live

Edit- deleted following. not sure it was saying what i thought it was saying.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #115 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

That's not an argument against nuclear power. That's an argument for tougher government regulation. But again, meltdown proof plants are all we need. Those exist. Build the fuckers and get us off coal and oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

I didn't post it to be an argument against nuclear power. It just illustrates that certain things have to be properly regulated... or problems can ensue. And that's from someone not in favor of big government.

I agree with you.. build nukes with new technology. Decommission the old hardware. But exploit solar etc as much as possible as well. JUst get us off the traditional "setting fire to carbon based stuff" road.

Oh, Jesus. Now we're turning this into a debate on more government regulation? THAT's why this happened...lack of regulation? And as for meltdown-proof plants, I'm all for it. The problem is that liberals like yourselves have ensured that we haven't built a new nuclear power plant in 40 years, leaving aging and overworked reactors to carry the load. Awesome idea!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Don't worry? WTF!-

"A former nuclear power plant designer has said Japan is facing an extremely grave crisis and called on the government to release more information, which he said was being suppressed. Masashi Goto told a news conference in Tokyo that one of the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi plant was highly unstable, and that if there was a meltdown the consequences would be tremendous. He said such an event might be very likely indeed. So far, the government has said a meltdown would not lead to a sizeable leak of radioactive materials.

Mr Goto said the reactors at the Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear plant were suffering pressure build-ups way beyond that for which they were designed. There was a severe risk of an explosion, with radioactive material being strewn over a very wide area beyond the 20km evacuation zone set up by the authorities he added. Mr Goto calculated that because Reactor No 3 at Fukushima-Daiichi where pressure is rising and there is a risk of an explosion used a type of fuel known as Mox, a mixture of p lutonium oxide and uranium oxide, the radioactive fallout from any meltdown might be twice as bad.
He described the worst-case scenario: It is difficult to say, but that would be a core meltdown. If the rods fall and mix with water, the result would be an explosion of solid material like a volcano spreading radioactive material. Steam or a hydrogen explosion caused by the mix would spread radioactive waste more than 50km. Also, this would be multiplied. There are many reactors in the area so there would be many Chernobyls.

He accused the government of deliberately withholding vital information that would allow outside experts help solve the problems. For example, there has not been enough information about the hydrogen being vented. We dont know how much was vented and how radioactive it was. He also described the use of sea water to cool the cores of the reactors at Fukushima-Daiichi as highly unusual and dangerous."
~ http://www.realnewsreporter.com/?p=954

Biased, unbalanced opinion. Not worth the pixels it takes up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

A rupture may have occurred inside the containment vessel at Fukushima's number two reactor, Japan's NHK public broadcaster is reporting.

Although details are only slowly emerging about the explosion that was heard there a short time ago, technicians have been told to evacuate the area

A nuclear export told the broadcaster that there may have been a radioactive leak as a result of the explosion at the vessel, which is supposed to prevent radiation from leaking out.

The explosion appears to be related to a fault with the suppression pool at the very bottom of the containment vessel. Steam is brought down to the pool and is used to cool the reactor.
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog...ear-alert-live

Are you a news service now? I think you should get back to just honestly bashing nuclear power.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #116 of 179
Thread Starter 
"It happened 24 years ago and more than 1,300 miles away from the UK. But, for the sheep farmers of Scotland, the effects from the fallout from Chernobyl have only just ended.

An announcement that the industry is finally free of the radioactive material which forced many of its upland farms to be placed under Food Standards Agency (FSA) restrictions has been hailed as "a blessed relief". Some Scottish farmers have been unable to slaughter, sell or even move their livestock without stringent testing and government pre-approval for the past 24 years.

Many of the owners of the original 9,700 UK farms affected are, even now, reluctant to talk about their fight to survive in the aftermath of the 1986 disaster, because of the possible stigma attached.
The FSA announced a couple of weeks ago that the last Scottish farm had been declared free of radioactive material. But in north Wales, 330 farms remain restricted, along with eight in Cumbria. Before farmers in restricted areas can sell or move any of their livestock, they must have each animal tested.

David Ellwood, 53, who owns Baskell Farm in western Cumbria, is still under FSA restrictions. "I was told they would only last a week, but 24 years later we are still dealing with it," he said.

Radioactive caesium has a relatively short half-life of 30 years – the time it takes for activity to halve – and it was always anticipated that restrictions would be necessary for up to 20 or 30 years after the accident. Some of the affected sheep that just exceed the threshold can be brought within the limit by allowing them to graze on lower, unaffected pastures for several months before slaughter."
~ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...t-2020059.html

Does anyone here know the consequences of plutonium's 24,000 year half life found in the Mox reactor?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #117 of 179
Staff at nuke plant have been evacuated. Only a crew of 50 remain, those involved directly in trying to cool the reactors.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #118 of 179
Thread Starter 
"Government regulators knew of a heightened risk of explosion in the type of nuclear reactors used at the Fukushima plant in Japan from the moment they went into operation.

Safety inspectors at America's Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) warned as early as 1972 that the General Electric reactors, which did away with the traditional large containment domes, were more vulnerable to explosion and more vulnerable to the release of radiation if a meltdown occurred.

Michael Mariotte, director of the Nuclear Information and Resource Service, said: "The concern has been there all along that this containment building was not strong enough and the pressure containment system was not robust enough to prevent an explosion."

The early warning about the reactor design was reinforced in 1986 when Harold Denton, then the top safety official at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), warned of a high risk of failure of the mark one containment system.

"Mark one containment, especially being smaller with lower design pressure, in spite of the suppression pool... you'll find something like a 90% probability of that containment failing," he told an industry trade group at the time.

"Any reactor in this situation would be in a world of hurt. These designs are even more problematic because should you get core melt according to the nuclear regulatory commission the containment is 90% likely to fail," said Jim Riccio, a nuclear expert at Greenpeace. "In essence, the public's last line of defence in case of a meltdown really doesn't exist at all."


Nuclear reactors of the same design are in widespread use in America.Of the 104 reactors currently in use, 23 are of the same GE mark two design, according to the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Twelve more are a modified version of the boiling water reactor.

A number of those reactors are now reaching the end of their original 40-year lifsepan, and campaigners have been fighting attempts by the nuclear industry to extend their operation. One such GE mark one plant in contention is the Vermont Yankee. The NRC renewed the plant's lease for 20 years last week. However, the state government has moved to shut down the plant.
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...=ILCNETTXT3487
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #119 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

And now the Wall Street Journal enters the fray, with some information I found truly educational.

I wouldn't have guessed the core of a nuclear reactor operates at a temperature slightly above a conventional kitchen oven.

According the the Japanese government, the containment vessel has failed on one of the reactors and radiation is leaking. And we mustn't forget that this meltdown crisis was brought about by the failure of the power backup systems, rather than physical damage to the plant.

I'm all for replacing fossil fuel power stations with nukes (and renewables of course), but this is going to set everything back decades.

What's the solution here anyone? How to convince people?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #120 of 179
This nuclear power plant did not survive.

This event will impact nuclear power for some time.

Emergency evacuations are underway, again. Again, this is taking needed crews and equipment away from the search for survivors from the quake and tsunami.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
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