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Some perspective for our deregulation 'friends'

post #1 of 15
3/11/11 at 9:54pm
Thread Starter 
A 7.8 magnitude earthquake in Sichuan kills 70,000 people. An 8.9 magnitude earthquake in Japan kills 100. Don't lie about the reason for this.
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post #2 of 15
3/11/11 at 10:41pm
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Yup, incredibly stringent government mandated building safety codes saved Japan from what could have been 23 nine-elevens. Instead the death toll was only 0.03 nine-elevens or 30 milli-nine-elevens.

By the way, lack of health insurance in this country has a death toll of 15 nine-elevens annually.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #3 of 15
3/11/11 at 11:25pm
Thread Starter 
Exactly. Incredibly stringent government mandated safety codes saved tens of thousands of lives. Yet the free-market nuts still think regulation is evil on principle. I'll tell you what's evil. Doing anything 'on principle' that ends up costing lives. That is the very definition of 'amoral'.
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post #4 of 15
3/11/11 at 11:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

A 7.8 magnitude earthquake in Sichuan kills 70,000 people. An 8.9 magnitude earthquake in Japan kills 100. Don't lie about the reason for this.

Several days back I watched for about 20 mins as 4 well regarded economists were called to testify prepared remarks limited at 5 mins each their feelings of Tarp and banking. They each said banking is not complicated that banks needed capital requirements and collateral in order to lend. Yet these banks send their lobbyists to buy off Washington DC to allow relaxed to non-existent regulations which allowed the situation to even arise where by we could realize a "financial crisis".

This is true with building codes, true with finance.

Great point tonton!

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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #5 of 15
3/11/11 at 11:37pm
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  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Exactly. Incredibly stringent government mandated safety codes saved tens of thousands of lives. Yet the free-market nuts still think regulation is evil on principle. I'll tell you what's evil. Doing anything 'on principle' that ends up costing lives. That is the very definition of 'amoral'.

Yup. Couldn't say it better myself. People > Money.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #6 of 15
3/13/11 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

A 7.8 magnitude earthquake in Sichuan kills 70,000 people. An 8.9 magnitude earthquake in Japan kills 100. Don't lie about the reason for this.

An excellent post that really gets the point across!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #7 of 15
3/13/11 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

A 7.8 magnitude earthquake in Sichuan kills 70,000 people. An 8.9 magnitude earthquake in Japan kills 100. Don't lie about the reason for this.


I think it is a fair bit early to presume the death toll is only 100.

It is just as easy to play the game in reverse. We could lay the deaths of every single person on the government and declare that it is because government hadn't confiscated even more and done ever more.

The point in the other thread is the plants were built to a 7.0 specification 40 years ago. We can, from your perspective declare the government at fault for using the plant for as long as it did. Japan's debt to GDP ratio is about 200%. Perhaps they were just evil for not driving it to 400% and rebuilding said nuclear power plants to survive a magnitude 10.0 earthquake and rebuild the power plants every five years with the latest technology. Why is Japan at fault for not having put solar arrays everywhere?

Etc, etc, etc.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #8 of 15
3/13/11 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


I think it is a fair bit early to presume the death toll is only 100.

It is just as easy to play the game in reverse. We could lay the deaths of every single person on the government and declare that it is because government hadn't confiscated even more and done ever more.

The point in the other thread is the plants were built to a 7.0 specification 40 years ago. We can, from your perspective declare the government at fault for using the plant for as long as it did. Japan's debt to GDP ratio is about 200%. Perhaps they were just evil for not driving it to 400% and rebuilding said nuclear power plants to survive a magnitude 10.0 earthquake and rebuild the power plants every five years with the latest technology. Why is Japan at fault for not having put solar arrays everywhere?

Etc, etc, etc.

I'm sorry but you'll have to do better than that. Of course the death toll will rise in Japan. That doesn't counter what Tonton pointed out. Tonton's point clearly still stands.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #9 of 15
3/13/11 at 11:58am
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Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Tonton's point clearly still stands.

Yes....on a foundation of superficial analysis and simplistic assumptions.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #10 of 15
3/13/11 at 12:04pm
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Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes....on a foundation of superficial analysis and simplistic assumptions.

Sorry oh Mr. Superior but it stands on the truth. But I'm sure you would prefer to spin your way out of this discussion in truly superior fashion.

Only an idiot would try to deny that better building codes help in time of natural disasters like this.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #11 of 15
3/13/11 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Sorry oh Mr. Superior but it stands on the truth. But I'm sure you would prefer to spin your way out of this discussion in truly superior fashion.

Only an idiot would try to deny that better building codes help in time of natural disasters like this.

Ohhh...do you see the incorrect assumption you made about the statement I made?

I bet you don't.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #12 of 15
3/13/11 at 12:16pm
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Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Ohhh...do you see the incorrect assumption you made about the statement I made?

I bet you don't.

Why don't you tell us all so we can be enlightened? Was there anything incorrect in my reply?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #13 of 15
3/13/11 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Why don't you tell us all so we can be enlightened? Was there anything incorrect in my reply?

Yes. You assumed that what I was saying is that building codes don't help. That's not what I was saying at all. The assumption that a) government mandated building codes are the one and only way is a simplistic assumption and, b) ignoring the correlation between the level of wealth (which correlates very strongly with the degree of freedom) in an area and the level of safety in that area is superficial.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #14 of 15
3/13/11 at 5:54pm
Nothing is stopping you from living there...
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post #15 of 15
3/14/11 at 4:36pm
What an idiotic thread. Unless you can prove buildings in Japan are built exclusively by the government, or point out anybody here advocating the privatization of government departments responsible for building codes, you are merely using a disaster to enhance your political ego.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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