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Inside Apple's iPad 2 A5: fast LPDDR2 RAM, costs 66% more than Tegra 2

post #1 of 66
Thread Starter 
The new A5 processor used by iPad 2 incorporates Samsung's new 46nm Low Power DDR2 memory, uses a variable clock speed and costs about $25, a significant premium over NVIDIA's competing Tegra 2.

According to research performed by UBM TechInsights, Apple's larger A5 (12.1mmx10.1mm, compared to the 7.3mmx7.3mm A4) costs about $25 to build, making it $10 more expensive than similar dual core chips such as the Tegra 2 used by the Motorola Xoom.

Even so, the firm estimates the iPad 2 total Bill Of Materials costs about $270, compared to its BOM estimate of the Xoom, which weighs in at $288 (both numbers compare 32GB 3G versions).

Cheaper by the million dozen

"To help with their margins," UBM engineer and technical marketing manager Allan Yogasingam told AppleInsider, "this basically guarantees the A5 will be in most next generation Apple products like the iPhone 5 and the iPod Touch. It will help bring the costs down to the $15 range of their competition - especially if they have a plan in place to ramp up production through another fab like TSMC."

Yogasingam noted that despite rumors that Apple may be working with TSMC to build A5 chips, "the A5 in our possession is definitely manufactured by Samsung using their 45nm process."

"Our first inclination that this could be a Samsung manufactured processor was the similarity in word mark between this font and the font in the Apple A4," the Yogasingam stated (below, A4 wordmark is in the inset image.)



The A5 up close, really close

UBM TechInsights also said it "used optical die and SEM cross-section images to analyze features such as die edge seal, metal 1 pitch, logic and SRAM transistor gate measurements. These features were then compared to other manufacturers in our database, including other Samsung 45nm parts," indicating that the A5, like the previous generation Apple A4 processor, was built using Samsungs 45nm process.



Yogasingam provided a full scale die photo of the Apple A5 Processor (above). A side view image of the A5 processor reveals the package-on-package of the processor and low-power DDR2 DRAM (below).



A SEM (Scanning Electron Microscopy) cross-section image showing the SRAM transistors in the Apple A5 processor (below).



Evolution of Apple's APL chips

Apple has used a series of Applications Processors in its iPhone, iPod touch and iPad models since 2007. Initial versions of the chips were designated as 8900B series, while later versions were labeled in an APL series. Only last year did Apple begin naming its processor as "the A4," a step similar to the company's previous branding of third, fourth, and fifth generations of PowerPC chips the G3, G4 and G5.



In addition to much faster graphics based on the dual core SGX543MP2 graphics technology licensed from Imagination Technologies, the A5 also boasts dual processing cores based on ARM Cortex A9, with a dynamically set clock speed.

Dynamic clock, faster RAM

"While the A4 clock speed was steady at 1 GHz," Yogasingam said, "the A5 clock speed varies depending on the application being run. This would indicate an advanced power management circuitry controlling the clock speeds of the coressomething new for the A5 and may explain the use of a different power management IC from Dialog Semiconductor."

Also notable in the A5 is the use of fast new Low Power DDR2 DRAM memory. "What is also interesting is that teardowns performed at two UBM TechInsights locations (in Austin and Ottawa) revealed two different LPDDR2 DRAM from two different manufacturers (Samsung and Elpida). The Samsung K4P2G324EC LPDDR2 die is the first time weve seen Samsungs new 46nm LPDDR2 memory. This also tells us that Apple is fully prepared to package multiple LPDDR2 offerings."
post #2 of 66
Like I've said before, Apple is only diversifying its supply base of CPU makers not dumping Samsung completely, quite frankly and like it or not, they cant.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #3 of 66
I bet Apple uses TSMC to fab A5 chips at 40 nm that wind up in the iPhone 5. The slightly smaller fab process will help the iPhone's battery life.
post #4 of 66
OK!

To get the price down, there are some things they can do to utilize the A5 chip:

1) iPhone, iPod Touch (obviously)
2) AppleTV 3
3) HomeServer/TimeMachine/iMediaServer
---- Mac or PC Compatible
---- Store iMedia (iTunes, iPhoto, apps) Content
---- Local Backup
---- Staged remote backup to MobileMe
---- Crossload to AppleTV and iDevices: Apps, Audio and Video
---- Stream to iDevices
4) Possibly a touch/stylus graphics tablet/control surface peripheral for the Mac (though I am hoping the iPad 2 can perform this function)
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post #5 of 66
Shows you how much specs actually matter these days. Xoom could barely compete against a single core processor with 256 megs ram. As soon as Apple bumped up the specs that copare to xoom it is now about half the speed.
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post #6 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I bet Apple uses TSMC to fab A5 chips at 40 nm that wind up in the iPhone 5. The slightly smaller fab process will help the iPhone's battery life.

I think it's unlikely they'd produce chips on two different processes; there are substantial costs in targeting any given process, and a 40nm respin of the A5 would cut into the economies of scale that Apple enjoys by sharing chips across iPads and iPhones and iPods.
post #7 of 66
OMAP and ST-E standalone APs will be $15 or less when they are fully ramped, but Nvidia is currently charging $25 for Tegra 2.
post #8 of 66
I've seen people get the same program showing 950mhz+ speeds. When are all the blogs going to figure out that the proc speed is dynamic all the way up to 1ghz?

This is a 1ghz processor for sure. If it needs it, it'll ramp all the way up.
post #9 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmm160109 View Post

OMAP and ST-E standalone APs will be $15 or less when they are fully ramped, but Nvidia is currently charging $25 for Tegra 2.


I have heard/read that the PlayBook is using a Marvell chip

Then the HP TouchPad is supposed to use the Qualcomm Snapdragon dual-CPU APQ8060


-- Any ideas on which chip and what cost for either of these?
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post #10 of 66
THANK YOU, AI!!!!!!!!

These are my favorite posts. Right after Apple comes out with some new kit, AI gets up close and personal. No one does it better. Then the replies after the article are just a bonus. Some are quite insightful and help in understanding the 'why's'
post #11 of 66
Hey, great article. Very interesting read!
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post #12 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I bet Apple uses TSMC to fab A5 chips at 40 nm that wind up in the iPhone 5. The slightly smaller fab process will help the iPhone's battery life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooksT View Post

I think it's unlikely they'd produce chips on two different processes; there are substantial costs in targeting any given process, and a 40nm respin of the A5 would cut into the economies of scale that Apple enjoys by sharing chips across iPads and iPhones and iPods.

Historically speaking I think it’s likely Apple will use the same fab across the line. However, there are some issues with that rational when we consider the current iPhone 4 design and assume that Apple will want the iPhone 5 to retain the same external look and internal layout for two iterations.

When I look at the battery taking up most of the internal space and the main logic board being sandwiched to one side I can’t see how Apple could get the iPad’s A5 in there as it would require 1.4mm on each side. Is there enough space for that with all other things being equal?

Some options they can go? 1) making the battery less wide, 2) rearranging the way the components are place, 3) stop using a side-by-side method for the battery and circuitry, 4) make the phone wider, 5) use a single-core Cortex-A9 reference design, or 6) use a smaller fab process.

Of all those 6 options — did I get them all? — the smaller fab seems to be the most viable option if they can’t get that additional 1.4mm on battery and antenna sides of the logic board.


PS: This falls under the first option, but I wanted to separate it out just to cover all the bases. Apple could use multiple batteries that would work in unison, like with Mac notebooks and the iPad. One obviously being wider than the other so it can accommodate the wider CPU. While this makes sense for larger Li-Poly-Ion batteries I don’t think it makes sense for such a small battery, especially since there is now that your battery has a lower mAh for the total battery volume do to the middle divider.
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post #13 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

Like I've said before, Apple is only diversifying its supply base of CPU makers not dumping Samsung completely, quite frankly and like it or not, they cant.

They'll be able to dump Samsung by 2012 with Global Foundries now capable of stamping out ARM based solutions.


GlobalFoundries News: http://www.globalfoundries.com/newsroom/

Expansion of $5.4 Billion in Manufacturing for 2011 and 45/40/32/28/22nm processes.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/...n_in_2011.html


GLOBALFOUNDRIES Launches Industry's First 28nm
ARM Cortex-A9 Processor Platform with Gate First High-K Metal Gate

Milpitas, Calif. September 1, 2010

http://www.globalfoundries.com/newsr...00901_ARM.aspx
post #14 of 66
seeing technology this close makes me believe in magic. my mind is blown right now thinking about the logic of it all that makes computers and portables work. absolutely amazing
post #15 of 66
No reason to dump Samsung from Apple's point of view, rather make them use up their capacity on Apple product so that they won't be able to produce lot's of galaxy tabs at low cost.
post #16 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by talkshowonmute View Post

seeing technology this close makes me believe in magic. my mind is blown right now thinking about the logic of it all that makes computers and portables work. absolutely amazing

And we're not even seeing all of what goes on in there, as its too small. Some processors are getting up to 1 billion transistors now, GPU's over 3 billion, all in chips smaller than your thumb nail. The complexity of it is mind boggling.
post #17 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Possibly a touch/stylus graphics tablet/control surface peripheral for the Mac (though I am hoping the iPad 2 can perform this function)

So Dick, did you acquire you iPad ][ yet, or are you like me, ordered and have to wait for a few weeks?

Check your PMs - Ileft one for you a few weeks ago that's gone unread.
post #18 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Historically speaking I think its likely Apple will use the same fab across the line. However, there are some issues with that rational when we consider the current iPhone 4 design and assume that Apple will want the iPhone 5 to retain the same external look and internal layout for two iterations.

When I look at the battery taking up most of the internal space and the main logic board being sandwiched to one side I cant see how Apple could get the iPads A5 in there as it would require 1.4mm on each side. Is there enough space for that with all other things being equal?

Some options they can go? 1) making the battery less wide, 2) rearranging the way the components are place, 3) stop using a side-by-side method for the battery and circuitry, 4) make the phone wider, 5) use a single-core Cortex-A9 reference design, or 6) use a smaller fab process.

Of all those 6 options did I get them all? the smaller fab seems to be the most viable option if they cant get that additional 1.4mm on battery and antenna sides of the logic board.


PS: This falls under the first option, but I wanted to separate it out just to cover all the bases. Apple could use multiple batteries that would work in unison, like with Mac notebooks and the iPad. One obviously being wider than the other so it can accommodate the wider CPU. While this makes sense for larger Li-Poly-Ion batteries I dont think it makes sense for such a small battery, especially since there is now that your battery has a lower mAh for the total battery volume do to the middle divider.

Why do you discard the larger display when reputed engineering drawings are making the rounds? Also I missed the package size difference. The die is much larger for the A5, but some of the difference can be made up in the POP. Do we have the size of the packaging?

As far as pricing, Apple is buying from the foundry and someone like MOTO is buying from Nvidia which is buying from the foundry so I think their price estimates for Tegra 2 are suspect. The silicon and packaging might cost Nvidia 15 but I find it's hard to believe they have zero markup. Also most of the Tegra 2 users are adding in 512MB of LPDDR2 which isn't free.
post #19 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

THANK YOU, AI!!!!!!!!

These are my favorite posts. Right after Apple comes out with some new kit, AI gets up close and personal. No one does it better. Then the replies after the article are just a bonus. Some are quite insightful and help in understanding the 'why's'

I agree totally with your reply above.

AI is indeed a great source of these kinds of details.

However, unless I missed it above, there wasn't much of a comparison between the a% and the Tegra except with respect to pricing and vague numbers.
post #20 of 66
The home server would be nice, and even a distinct possibility to replace the current Time Capsule.

Apple won't be doing an ARM based mac in the near future. I can see three reasons, all based on the fact that powerful though the A5 is relative to other ARM processors, it has nowhere near the power of the Intel desktop chips:

* they couldn't possibly run current mac applications under emulation
* mac application publishers are unlikely to recompile all their code for ARM to make universal binaries. It's technically probably straightforward, but...
* even if they did do such a recompile, the much more resource hungry mac programmes would run like treacle on the A5

As for the other uses on the list below the mac compatible, aren't they mostly just functions of a putative home server? Except for the MobileMe and cross-loading ideas, which have nothing to do with processors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

OK!

To get the price down, there are some things they can do to utilize the A5 chip:

-- iPhone, iPod Touch (obviously)
-- AppleTV 3
-- HomeServer/TimeMachine/iMediaServer
---- Mac or PC Compatible
---- Store iMedia (iTunes, iPhoto, apps) Content
---- Local Backup
---- Staged remote backup to MobileMe
---- Crossload to AppleTV and iDevices: Apps, Audio and Video
---- Stream to iDevices

Possibly a touch/stylus graphics tablet/control surface peripheral for the Mac (though I am hoping the iPad 2 can perform this function)
post #21 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

They'll be able to dump Samsung by 2012 with Global Foundries now capable of stamping out ARM based solutions [located in] Milpitas, Calif.

Milpitas? MILPITAS???

The armpit of Silicon Valley?

What's a Milpitas?
post #22 of 66
I love all the nerdy chip stuff, keep it coming!

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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post #23 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pats View Post

Why do you discard the larger display when reputed engineering drawings are making the rounds? Also I missed the package size difference. The die is much larger for the A5, but some of the difference can be made up in the POP. Do we have the size of the packaging?

I didnt disregard the larger display rumours. For starters, I didnt see that mentioned in the article so I didnt see how it would be relevant.

Secondly, the only rumours Ive seen on that have been a slightly larger display, but with the casing being the same size. IOW, the display would be closer to the edge of the case design but the footprint would remain the same.

Finally, Apple has been very strict about the displays to make it easier on them, 3rd-party devs, and by extension the customer. Even if they keep the same resolution but enlarge the displays surface area a little you still end up with a different pixel density and they will have to include that in the SDK. I know many will say that isnt a big deal but Apple has plenty of precedence showing that to be a big deal. That isnt to say that it wont happen, and Id like that so long as the phone isnt physically bigger, but that rumour is pretty weak at this point.
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post #24 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecphorizer View Post

I agree totally with your reply above.

AI is indeed a great source of these kinds of details.

However, unless I missed it above, there wasn't much of a comparison between the a% and the Tegra except with respect to pricing and vague numbers.

I'd love to see a comparison with the Tegra. The fandroids go on about it as if it were a Cray supercomputer in a phone, but it doesn't look all that great. The A5 graphics performance shreds the tegra in the xoom:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4216/a...p2-benchmarked
Some of that may be poor optimisation on Honeycomb, but that has no effect on the end user. Processor wise sunspider scores seem to be similar, suggesting similar raw performance from the Cortex A9 based cores in the respective chips, though muddied by additional browser optimisations on Honeycomb, and OS level optimisations on iOS. I don't think the tegra has dynamic processor speed, so implementations using the A5 are likely to be i) as fast on normal compute tasks; ii) more efficient on battery; and iii) screamingly better on graphics. I'm just speculating though.

As an aside, the comments from Android fans defending the Xoom on the post linked to above are a scream
post #25 of 66
Tegra 2 has always an iffy processor from the beginning --- because it doesn't have NEON and the GPU was always questionable.

The Snapdragons have their own version of NEON (with double the bitrate than the NEON), but their GPU has always been iffy. OMAP4 has NEON and SGX540, but the GPU is clocked at 300Mhz whereas other manufacturer's SGX540s are clocked at 200Mhz.

Don't know whether the A5 has NEON or not --- have to wait for detailed x-ray of the chip.
post #26 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by daijones View Post

The home server would be nice, and even a distinct possibility to replace the current Time Capsule.

Apple won't be doing an ARM based mac in the near future. I can see three reasons, all based on the fact that powerful though the A5 is relative to other ARM processors, it has nowhere near the power of the Intel desktop chips:

* they couldn't possibly run current mac applications under emulation
* mac application publishers are unlikely to recompile all their code for ARM to make universal binaries. It's technically probably straightforward, but...
* even if they did do such a recompile, the much more resource hungry mac programmes would run like treacle on the A5

As for the other uses on the list below the mac compatible, aren't they mostly just functions of a putative home server? Except for the MobileMe and cross-loading ideas, which have nothing to do with processors

Sorry, I didn't present that very well...

I edited the original as shown below.

I was referring to a HomeServer that would be Mac or PC compatible -- essentially a media/app server that would crossload or stream to iDevices and AppleTVs, while providing local backup and interface to a MobileMe cloud backup.

Think of it this way, wherever you are:
-- al of your iTunes store media purchases would be available to all your iDevices and computers (Mac or PC)
-- all of your app store purchases will available to your iDevices
-- all of your Mac app store purchases will be available to your Macs
-- any other home-created media or files could be backed up to the cloud from Mac or PC

I didn't want to call it this, but essentially is a local iTunes Server (including home movies and photos) with a cloud backup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

OK!

To get the price down, there are some things they can do to utilize the A5 chip:

1) iPhone, iPod Touch (obviously)
2) AppleTV 3
3) HomeServer/TimeMachine/iMediaServer
---- Mac or PC Compatible
---- Store iMedia (iTunes, iPhoto, apps) Content
---- Local Backup
---- Staged remote backup to MobileMe
---- Crossload to AppleTV and iDevices: Apps, Audio and Video
---- Stream to iDevices
4) Possibly a touch/stylus graphics tablet/control surface peripheral for the Mac (though I am hoping the iPad 2 can perform this function)
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post #27 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecphorizer View Post

Milpitas? MILPITAS???

The armpit of Silicon Valley?

What's a Milpitas?

Now Tod...

Don't you remember one of the radio show hosts referring oi Mavis of Milpitas?


FWIW, "milpitas" is Spanish for "little corn fields"

Milpitas, California

... though, some would claim corn tassels resemple [long] blonde pit hair

No iPad 2 for you, today!

.
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post #28 of 66
Good article as others were saying. Very good read indeed.
post #29 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

FWIW, "milpitas" is Spanish for "little corn fields"

Sorry, his story is better...
Progress is a comfortable disease
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Progress is a comfortable disease
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post #30 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Sorry, I didn't present that very well...

I edited the original as shown below.

I was referring to a HomeServer that would be Mac or PC compatible -- essentially a media/app server that would crossload or stream to iDevices and AppleTVs, while providing local backup and interface to a MobileMe cloud backup.

Think of it this way, wherever you are:
-- al of your iTunes store media purchases would be available to all your iDevices and computers (Mac or PC)
-- all of your app store purchases will available to your iDevices
-- all of your Mac app store purchases will be available to your Macs
-- any other home-created media or files could be backed up to the cloud from Mac or PC

I didn't want to call it this, but essentially is a local iTunes Server (including home movies and photos) with a cloud backup

Siracusa just had a podcast on 5by5.tv about this, and I couldn't agree more.

It's really the missing piece of the puzzle / elephant in the room when it comes to a multi mac/ilife household.

If you've got 1 mac everything just works. If you have 5, there's always a series of work arounds that make things more of a PITA than they should be. They really need to get rid of the one library to 1 iPod/Pad limitation, or at least let you sync with libraries you've authorized with homesharing..
post #31 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I bet Apple uses TSMC to fab A5 chips at 40 nm that wind up in the iPhone 5. The slightly smaller fab process will help the iPhone's battery life.

Actually the smaller display is what helps the iPhone's battery life. No need to change the process of the CPU.
post #32 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by daijones View Post


As an aside, the comments from Android fans defending the Xoom on the post linked to above are a scream

Every Android fan I meet is a hard core PC user and Apple hater ... I am actually beginning to feel pity for these people. They simply wouldn't admit Apple can do anything good if their life depended on it. They simply repeat "Apple's walled garden will ensure its failure" over and over!

Meanwhile, the news today that about half of all iPad 2 purchases were first time buyers gave me a sense of the future.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #33 of 66
As someone has mentioned it already. Tegra 2 are selling for ~$2x too.
It cost ~ $2x for Apple to build AND put it into iPad 2.
It cost Nvidia ~$1x for Nvidia to build and ~$2x for Apple's competitors to put it into their tablet.

You see, Nvidia needs to make a Profits as well.

For Motorola , they dont have any pricing advantage compare to Apple on SoC compare to Apple by having more sophisticated hardware at the same price.
post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Every Android fan I meet is a hard core PC user and Apple hater ... I am actually beginning to feel pity for these people. They simply wouldn't admit Apple can do anything good if their life depended on it. They simply repeat "Apple's walled garden will ensure its failure" over and over!

ah, sad people, can't admit anything without falling apart?

gotta say i use both WINDOWS and OSX (a PC is a freaking PERSONAL COMPUTER) they both have their uses.... now if Apple made a product that was as durable as a thinkpad (also am i the only one who the new touchpads with out buttons hurt fingers with prolonged use? just wondering) however thats not gonna happen... making things thinner is not always better (what happens if someone steps of a macbook air, or it gets run over by a 13 ton truck?? 0.o)

but thats cause Lenovo (only other company ever consider buying a computer from besides Apple) demands a pretty large premium.... so it makes sense.

anyways, iOS is superior to most of what i have seen Android do. unless you are really into programing so they can root it and play around.

PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

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PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

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post #35 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I didnt disregard the larger display rumours. For starters, I didnt see that mentioned in the article so I didnt see how it would be relevant.

Secondly, the only rumours Ive seen on that have been a slightly larger display, but with the casing being the same size. IOW, the display would be closer to the edge of the case design but the footprint would remain the same.

Finally, Apple has been very strict about the displays to make it easier on them, 3rd-party devs, and by extension the customer. Even if they keep the same resolution but enlarge the displays surface area a little you still end up with a different pixel density and they will have to include that in the SDK. I know many will say that isnt a big deal but Apple has plenty of precedence showing that to be a big deal. That isnt to say that it wont happen, and Id like that so long as the phone isnt physically bigger, but that rumour is pretty weak at this point.


Sorry wasn't really clear and missed the graphic which listed the package size and answered my question.
The actual dimension of the POP package is what Apple needs to find room for on the iPhone 5 board. The POP is now rectangular. The old A4 was a 14.1 x 14.1 square the new 14.3 x 16.7 rectangle so they can still fit the 14.3 and clear out for 2.6mm of board space on one side. I agree with changing the display size is unlikely but I think they can fit the new POP by reorienting a few chips on the board and still fit the other traces you showed in the photo of the iPhone 4 PCB.
post #36 of 66
120 mm^2 die size seems a bit on the large size. My experience in the semiconductor market is quite out of date (more than a decade ago), but the rule of thumb then was that you wanted to keep chips under 100 mm^2 as the costs per chip goes up quite quickly after that. (The cost of a wafer is roughly constant independent of chip size, as the size of a chip goes up, you get fewer of them on a wafer, and the likelihood of a silicon defect hitting a chip goes up, hence the cost per die increases faster than just the area of a die.)

Googling, I found that the Tegra 2 is only about 49 mm^2, fairly similar in size to the A4. So the semiconductor costs for a Tegra 2 would be less than the 49/120 (=~ 0.41) fraction of an A5. However, the packaging costs are probably pretty similar. I'm wondering if UBM Technologies is comparing the manufacturing cost of an A5 vs. the price of a Tegra 2, I doubt that the manufacturing cost of an A5 is only 67% more than the manufacturing cost of a Tegra 2.
post #37 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolbolas View Post

ah, sad people, can't admit anything without falling apart?

gotta say i use both WINDOWS and OSX (a PC is a freaking PERSONAL COMPUTER) they both have their uses.... now if Apple made a product that was as durable as a thinkpad (also am i the only one who the new touchpads with out buttons hurt fingers with prolonged use? just wondering) however thats not gonna happen... making things thinner is not always better (what happens if someone steps of a macbook air, or it gets run over by a 13 ton truck?? 0.o)

but thats cause Lenovo (only other company ever consider buying a computer from besides Apple) demands a pretty large premium.... so it makes sense.

anyways, iOS is superior to most of what i have seen Android do. unless you are really into programing so they can root it and play around.

1) All of Apples trackpads have a physical button. If depressing it hurts your fingers then switch to tap setting.

2) Making something so robust that it withstand being run over by a Mac truck or hurled into the center of Sun "is not always better. You have to make a tradeoff in order to make a product that is durable but still useful. Panasonic Toughbooks are considerably more durable than other notebooks, but they are designed that way. They are not what a typical consumer would want or need, especially at the premium for that ruggedness.

3) Why always this talk about Android can be rooted. When has iOS not been jailbroken allowing access to every part of the OS? Youd think that would be the best of both worlds for someone that says iOS is superior and wants access to the system.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #38 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by pats View Post

image: http://photos.appleinsider.com/A5.ev...sA5.031211.jpg

Sorry wasn't really clear and missed the graphic which listed the package size and answered my question.
The actual dimension of the POP package is what Apple needs to find room for on the iPhone 5 board. The POP is now rectangular. The old A4 was a 14.1 x 14.1 square the new 14.3 x 16.7 rectangle so they can still fit the 14.3 and clear out for 2.6mm of board space on one side. I agree with changing the display size is unlikely but I think they can fit the new POP by reorienting a few chips on the board and still fit the other traces you showed in the photo of the iPhone 4 PCB.

Thanks. I assumed those dimensions were for the PoP. They surely have the width to do it, assuming they can make room for the chip for that extra 40mm^2, which I think they can.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #39 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Now Tod...

Don't you remember one of the radio show hosts referring oi Mavis of Milpitas?

No but I do remember Bob Wilkins of "Creature Feature" fame telling at least one Milpitas joke every week...

Quote:
FWIW, "milpitas" is Spanish for "little corn fields"

Not quite - it's a corruption of Ohlone and Spanish. Besides, that's a salt marsh and I dare you to grow corn in a salt marsh.

Quote:
Milpitas, California
... though, some would claim corn tassels resemble [long] blonde pit hair

That's what carpetbaggers and their revisionist history will do for you.

Quote:
No iPad 2 for you, today!

Nope. The estimated delivery date is April 1. Ha-ha!

Where's my TDM?
post #40 of 66
Regarding Dick Applebaum's contention that "milpitas" = "little corn fields:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Sorry, his story is better...

Thanks Bageljoey, you made my (iPadless) day!
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